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13 comments

Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

Posted September 27, 2009 10:11 AM

GM recently announced its Chevrolet Volt will achieve 230 miles-per-gallon (mpg) and within a few days Nissan announced its battery-operated Leaf will achieve an astonishing 367 mpg (see the video). Do these numbers mean anything? What is the equivalent of a 'gallon' of electricity? Shouldn't we be talking about kilowatt-hours, joules, or some sort of electric equivalent of mpg? Now that we're moving into the multiple-fuel era, car buyers need some sort of standard measure of comparison that is both universal and transparent. Any suggestions of what that should be?

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Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: OH USA
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#1

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/27/2009 11:01 PM

The reason for the mpg rating for the Chevy Volt is it is powered entirely by batteries but has a gasoline engine to recharge the batteries for trips longer than 40 miles (or whatever they claim for fully charged batteries alone). I haven't seen the Nissan but I suspect it's the same kind of thing; perhaps with larger or more efficient batteries and onboard charging system (diesel perhaps?).

The electrical equivalents will come along as electric cars become more popular and owners figure out how much it costs to plug in and charge overnight and, with that popularity, will probably also discover that present "off-peak" electricity rates will no longer exist.

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Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NW Ohio
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#2

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/28/2009 8:39 AM

This is the kind of double talk that our elected officials use. It is no wonder that they are not trusted.

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Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/28/2009 9:00 AM

A gallon of electrons is a whole heap of eletrons! I wonder if it was even possible to cram them into a gallon bucket how much they would weigh. Assuming that the electric forces were neglected so that you could get them all into a bucket and get them all to hold still long enough to weigh...

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Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2009
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#4

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/28/2009 10:02 AM

1 joule of electrical energy is equal to 7.58955676988E-9 gallon [U.S.] of automotive gasoline. So, do the math.

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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

02/11/2010 7:08 AM

So 1 gallon is equivalent to about 36.6 kwhr.

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Guru
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#5

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/28/2009 12:39 PM

230 mpg is a worthless statement if taken by itself. It must be qualified by length of time at miles per hour. 230 mpg doesn't mean anything if you can only go 2 mph and it takes you 40 hours to get there. You must also factor in weight being carried; whether the A/C is on; is the road level or are there hills to climb; are the headlights on or off; is the radio on; what's the air pressure in the tires; type of road surface? Mileage runs are always done under ideal conditions, something we will never experience in normal driving. 15 to 20% of that figure sounds more realistic to me.

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Power-User

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#6

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/28/2009 1:10 PM

If I put a hybrid system on my V8 pick up and it would get 10 miles on an overnite battery charge and then I drove it 8 miles round trip to work every day and no where else I would get fantastic mileage.

If you believe this reasoning I have a health care proposal for you that will save the economy.

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Anonymous Poster
#7

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/28/2009 1:49 PM

A guy I know charges his vehicle with solar. I guess the batteries (for his house)charge his car overnight.

The solar cost him $35,000. That's a lot of gas you can buy for that and I guess he hasn't thought of road trips. I don't think he will ever really see the system "pay off", or maybe he will see it when he is really old and the solar system he has is antiquated. But he hasn't paid any electrical (so he says) since he got it installed.

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

10/05/2009 10:37 AM

The $35,000 solar system will be paid off in an efficient time frame.

If your monthly average bill is $350 per month, then the solar system will have an ROI (return on investment) of 8.33 years. It is very common for folks living in certain parts of the country to have this type of monthly bill. With today's state rebates and the Fed. 30% tax incentive program, that ROI can be moved down to 4.5 to 5.5 years.

Solar systems from the late 60's to early 70's that have been monitored by the state of California have only seen a lose of power output of 11%. That's really good for antiquated technology, don't you think?

It all comes down to the fact that some have the money to pay their power consumption bill up front for 5 years and then never have to pay the power provider again.

The cost per watt of solar has dropped considerably by $2.00 a watt over the last 2.5 years and will continue to drop for the next few years, and the cost per kilowatt from the power provider will continue to increase for years to come.

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#8

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

09/29/2009 10:47 AM

Forget the Mpg, what is the cost in $/mile? And how long does anyone think the government will wait to increase the costs for electricity when they start getting reduced revenues for gasoline?

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Anonymous Poster
#10

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

10/08/2009 12:00 PM

HOW ABOUT WHOLE LIFE COST

Both for the user and the enviroment,these cars may save fuel(petrol) but replacement batteries are very costly and may result in these cars being scrapped far to early when the cost of replacing theses batteries is more than the value of the car.

At the moment I feel these cars are expensive toys. If we really want to save the environment then whole life cost and the ability to repair and maintain vehicles with minimum damage to the environment is far more important. Ditch as much plastic as possible, standardise modular electronic components across all manufacturers to make these items less costly to replace keeping cars on the road for longer. Stop the the advance of ever increasing safty regulations that make cars more expensive to manufacture and really have reached the end of what is reasonable and cost effective.

making cars to sell is sadly at present not the same as saving the environment despite the hype

Charrles Beecham

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Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

10/11/2009 10:06 PM

responding to the first replier's comment. we wouldn't have higher electricity costs from electrical cars, because eletricity is a utility and is subgect to goverment regulation. the goverment would have to raise the limit that power plants could charge before prices could increase( though this could change from influence of power plant special interest groups).

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Commentator
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#12

Re: Gas Mileage for Electric Cars? Huh?

10/31/2009 5:13 PM

Hey going through email I found your query. I used to have an EV1 and it would cost about a dollar to drive 100 miles, this was based on charging the vehicle during offpeak hours and this was my "commuter car". If I wanted to go on a trip We would jump in my 68 Mustang. As for charging your car with solar, the best part about "solar" is the money it knocks off are the most expensive tiers on your bill. Once you get to your baseline and lower, it takes longer to pay back. I knew a couple of people with solar and EV's, they had no electric bill of automobile gas bill for 5 years. Except for trips and such. To the origional question. The fuzzy math that they are using is based on the national average of less than 10 miles a day round trip. So if I plug in at night and the motor hardly comes on then, yes you can get 230 to 367 MPG. Just food for thought.

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