The Y Files

Outlets for our fantasies are vital to retain our sanity.
At one time of high personal stress, I wrote (and illustrated) a rather silly adventure story somewhere between an Enid Blyton famous 5 story, watership down and a bondage fantasy. The pictures were good.
It's far better to fantasize about shooting the boss with a chinese repeating crossbow and abducting his secretary rather than actually doing it.
The problems arise when you feel these worlds blurring... At that point you know it's time to change job.
Del
_{(It was ok...I released her almost immediately.No...actually I showed her the story and she thought it was fun and was amused by the illustrations....Mrs Cat wasn't tho....)}

Very interesting! I've never played D&D, but I'm looking forward to reading about the controversies associated with it.

I know D&D has been around for a long time, but is this in the same league as Warhammer, also called 40K? I know of many people, young and (excuse the expression) old who play this dice-based fantasy game, which relies on model armies and more rules than I'll ever understand. There's an entire history and mythology that has evolved for the different armies, and while I enjoy fantasy up to a point (stop right there, Del), I enjoy sci-fi more and would just as soon spend time with a crossword puzzle.

Thanks for the look into this form of geeky fun!

Warhammer has been around since 1983.
D&D has been around since 1974.
And they are both pretty popular, so I suppose they would be considered to be in the same league.

The games are kind of similar. Both use dice and both fall into the fantasy genre. Both also have a lot of rules. I haven't played Warhammer, but one major difference is that instead of the entire armies of Warhammer, D&D players (with the exception of the Dungeon Master) develop one character and they play that character during the campaign.

A crossword puzzle from time to time is nice too!

Thanks for reading!

I love DND!

It's a pity that it is always look down on as a "nerd game" (hence the popularity at schools like RPI). DND is so much fun you can immerse yourself in a fantasy world, and if the DM is good enough, you can literally do anything.

I always tell doubters that DND is the greatest video game ever. minus the flashy visuals.

Everyone should try to get a group together, learning is easy as long as one person know what they are doing and has a plot in mind. you might be surprised who you know that has a history with DND.

D&D? Played it for over 20 yrs with basically the same group of people. By the time we were done our world had evolved into a place almost as real to us as our own little planet. Marriages and relocations eventually broke up the gang but my wife and I have since discovered the on-line versions and enjoyed several years or Warcraft. Eventually the kiddies that play that game devolved it into something that was less than enjoyable and we moved over to Lord of the Rings Online. Populated by a more mature group, most of whom are true Tolkien afficianados, we have found our new home away from home. We now spend(waste) what free time we have exploring the rich world of Middle Earth as Hobbits, Elves and Dwarves. The devil worshiping is just for weekends.

I would love to hear about others experiences with what are called MMORPGs (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games). Or from people still playing the classic pencil and paper RPGs.

I never could find a group of people to play D&D with but I have always loved the D&D based video games (Baldur's Gate is still one of my all-time favorites).

I think the problem with MMORPGs though is time consumption. Just last night I wanted to play WoW for only 2 hours and got off after 4 hours.

Another problem is that many gamers don't know the difference between the game and real life. For instance, the currency in the game is gold and I get so frustrated when I hear someone say "I bought it for 20 dollars" meaning "I bought it for 20 gold." Heck, I know a guy that averages about 12 hours of gameplay every day.

Ahhh.. D&D. Played it as a youngster, and had many enchanted evenings of adventure. I think I still have some old dusty dungeon master guide books around somewhere. When the internet started (much before WoW, or Ever-quest and the like) I used to play these completely text-based MUD's (Multi-User-Dungeon). It made my typing ability what it is today. The MUD's were the first online version of D&D, and were a load of addicting fun. I can't remember how many countless hours we would parade around the digital text-description based worlds, reading and typing our way around. (I'd probably still have an adventure or two to this day if I had time to kill(which just happens to be the exact opposite)). I knew some of my friends, who evolved to the visually stimulated worlds of Ever-quest, and WoW. I never took it on... If I'm not using my imagination to make the world however I wish to see it, it lost it's fun for me. It's all about using that noggin for what it was made, and flex those imagination muscles.

Watch Drizzt don't get you.

Now wasn't he in Baldur's Gate along with the guy who had the hamster in his pocket?

Yep. I don't know who the guy with the hamster is but the mage Elminster was also a recurring character in there. I believe both characters are in most of the Forgotten Realms story lines.

Never played the game I have read many of R. A. Salvatore works that were created just for some of the game's story line.

The guy with the hamster is Minsc, a human ranger. And Boo wasn't just any hamster...he was a miniature giant space hamster!

interestingly enough, Minsc originated during pencil and paper D&D sessions held by James Ohlen, the lead designer of Baldur's Gate

Indeed it was Minsc, always loved him in my party even though Boo restricted the amount of gear he could carry and weild.

Believe it or not, when my wife and I got married funds were very tight. The Baldur's Gate expansion had just launched so we locked the doors, took the phone off the hook, and spent our Honeymoon in Baldur's.

Great topic Vi!

I had multiple friends in high school who loved D&D, and weren't the Spawn of Satan.

Tolkien was huge back in the early 80's at Guilderland Central, here in Upstate. My high school friends then went on to become various types of technology-loving engineers and lawyers - Optical, Computer, Military, etc. - and tax-paying assets to their communities.

I tried a variation on fantasy play myself - I think they called it "War Games" - involving the Enterprise from Star Trek - but then lost interest over time. There was also some overlap at my high school between members of the Computer Club, The Doctor Who Club, and those who enjoyed D&D.

I think the engineering angle is that a vivid imagination is a pre-requisite for innovation. Or at least this is what I'd like to think. Whether there's science to back this up in patent statistics, I'll scan through the responses here to find out, but my life's experiences tell me this is likely true.

- Larry

I first played D&D in 1985 and was hooked. I played avidly through HS and into college. Just recently I found someone who also played in his youth and we began campaigning anew. It was as fun as ever. Without the massive amount of time it takes to run a good campaign, I have used WoW as a cheap substitute. I have actually just began campaigning in that game with a friend I played D&D with in high school. Ah, the good ol' days of chugging pepsi and adventuring till 4 or 5 in the morning.... When my kids are a little older I wil introduce them to D&D (not chugging pepsi though)... I look forward to it.

BTW I play(ed) AD&D and the secondnd edition. I've looked at later editions and was not impressed.

Gary Gygax died just a year, or so, ago.

I didn't fit the geek/nerd stereotype (played football, ran track), and I don't know about devil association with D&D. There are demons and devils in D&D, of course, but they are usually enemies.

I introduced my wife to D&D and Drizzt (RA Salvatore) and she is still reading his novels.

I tired D+D a couple times in college, but could never really get into it. Shortly after college, however, I got immersed in World of Warcraft.

In many respects its alot like D+D. You create a character, level them up (unlocking more powerful attacks and "talents"), and fight things. However unlike D+D, its more goal oriented, fast paced and can be played solo or in groups. A number of "monsters" can only be defeated by large groups of 10, 25 or even 40 players working collectively. Theres still a great degree of "die rolling" - it is just takent care of by the software. Also, if you decide you dont feel like fighting monsters, you can partake in numerous forms of player versus player combat.

As for the "geek" sterotype, ALOT of famous people play these games that you wouldnt consider to be a "geek". Actor Vin Diesel is a known fan of both D+D and WoW. Actor/Commedian Robin Williams, baseball player Derek Jeter, UFC fighter Jens Pulvers, Actor Jonathan Frakes (Star Trek:TNG), actor Richard Dean Anderson (MacGuyver), Football (american) kicker Chris Klewe (Minnisota Vikings?), actor Brandon Routh (superman), comedian Dave Chappelle, legendary red sox pitcher Curt Shilling (I seem to recall reading that he was actually starting his own gaming company now that he's retired), and many numerous others are confirmed to play. With a subscription base of over 11 million players, it stands to reason that there will be a very high percentage of non-geeks playing.

Together my 11 year old son and I play an online free game called Runescape. We both enjoy the fighter/fantasy world and I decided that this would be a good teaching tool as well as entertaining. There are a few things about the game's lore that I don't like and my son and I discuss how what we believe about reality differs from the worldview of Runescape. I allow my son to play Runescape because the magic just happens when you have enough runes (the reason there is magic) in your inventory and are at a high enough level to use them. Also, for the most part in the free version you slay goblins, wizards, dragons, demons, hellhounds, etc. However I see a big difference between the free version of Runescape and D&D. I would not want my son exposed to D&D now or through his teenage years and beyond. The worldview of D&D has a huge influence (morally) on young people and the sorcery (memorizing spells) is as close to authentic as possible. I could spend a lengthy time giving a commentary from a Christian perspective, but at this point I will just say I'm not a fan.

I would love to hear a lengthy commentary on how "The worldview of D&D has a huge influence (morally) on young people and the sorcery (memorizing spells) is as close to authentic as possible." Especially the part about authentic sorcery.

OOOh! OOOh! so would I.

Fireball! Fireball! Fireball! Kaplooie!

"The worldview of D&D has a huge influence (morally) on young people and the sorcery (memorizing spells) is as close to authentic as possible. I could spend a lengthy time giving a commentary from a Christian perspective, but at this point I will just say I'm not a fan."

Really?! Let's hear it, please. I'm very interested.

Same here.

See, I'm a Christian, the practicing non bible thumping give people the benefit of the doubt kind.

My brother and I both played this game as kids, he still does. I moved on to online gaming and actually met my fiance this way. We have no issues with understanding the difference between reality and fantasy because we didn't spend our lives excessively sheltered from life.

I have friends of many faiths and many interests and some of them have played their share of D&D over the years. None of them have grown up to be psychos or have issues with understanding reality or that magic spells can't solve your problems.

Several of them are very open minded to new ideas however.

Including the fact that things we think are fantasy may not be.

Like panda bears.

I think the problem is that people are scared of what they don't understand.

When I first got into D&D, I was reading about the development of characters and how you should pick the god that you worship. My thoughts were that people that don't play the game and possibly only get 5 minutes of exposure might take this the wrong way.

Personally, I can tell the difference in reality and fantasy so I had no intention on worshipping one of these D&D gods.

Same here...

Though I do eat the body and blood of Christ every week.

Say... I bet that's why a bunch of MY ancestors were stoned or crucified.

Hmmm...

Perhaps lack of information IS why people think bad things about innocent behaviors?

Just checked out the hiscore lists for Runescape, my wife (Apoticat) still has 6 skills in the top 100,000 and 1 in the top 15,000. I (Apothicus) only have 5 in the top 100,000 but my rune making rank is still pretty high.

And that is after 6 years away from the game, not bad if I do say so myself.

Used to make 3,000,000 gold a day back then, now if only i could do that in Lord of the Rings. Does a Robin Hood hat still sell for 6 million?

Market Price: 3.4 million

While I do not personally recommend D&D and think it is best avoided I do not believe there is a organized conspiracy afoot to recruit young people to witchcraft. Nor do I think it causes people to become psychotic or suicidal. There is a great deal within D&D that is pure fantasy and imagination, maybe even most of it, however it is the sprinkling of actual occultic practices that disturbs me and causes me to steer my son in other directions.

The Christian worldview (at least taken at face value) recognizes an unseen reality beyond our natural perception, but it is not a "force". Paganism, Wiccan practices and occultic mysticism believe in an unseen reality as well, but interpret this as forces to be manipulated by gaining secret knowledge, whether "good" or "evil". D&D introduces this concept to young minds. I understand that there are not spoken spells within D&D, but it's some of the concepts behind them that I think it is wise for the young to avoid, ones that are occultic and many wiccans and psychics practice. Below are a few examples.

The caster touches a corpse and is able to see the last 5 minutes of their life culminating in their death.

The caster temporarily enchants an implement associated with a craft

Using this spell the caster can infect a person with a disease of their choice

This extremely powerful spell grants vast sensory powers via the sight of the caster

The caster becomes mystically aware of the Astral and Ethereal Planes

The caster seeks out a sleeping mind and bedevils the sleeper with horrifying nightmares.

There are numerous D&D spell books outlining spell descriptions (what they do) that a good dungeon master is encouraged to memorize to create a better game experience.

The Christian is to think God's thoughts after Him (written revelation) not to seek secret or forbidden knowledge. Sadly there are many practices that have been incorporated into contemporary Christian practices where Christians have failed to see how wrong conclusions about spiritual things has had devastating effects.

I will write about the morality side of the issue when I have more time.

I don't agree with him either but it sounds like he at least did some research and made an educated decision about his child. I still feel that parents should be responsible for raising their children and they can only do that to the best of their knowledge.

Getting back to the original topic.

D&D is the greatest game ever IMHO. It was like lego for the mind. With absolutly no limits to where you could go with it except for the limits of your imagination. It lead me to read books on medival civilization and geography so that I could better construct my world. Just to know what all the different weapons offered were required many trips to encyclopeadias. I searched high and low for floor plans of actual castles to use in my scenerios and a little understanding of archetecture was required to make my own realistic. And still, no matter how well you plan out your game ...... those players always seemed to take it somewhere else.

The mind is like a muscle, the more you use it and stretch it the better it becomes. In todays age of prefabricated regimented toys I think the challenge of creating an entire world in which to live your imaginations greatest fantasies would be a terrific learning experience for anyone young or old.

And by the way ....there is no rule in the DMs guide that says you have to use those spells. In fact it would be an interesting excercise to build a world without the spell caster classes.

Indeed.

Saying anything otherwise is akin to Del saying he really is a cat or that I really am a goat.

Just because I'll eat nearly anything you set in front of me doesn't make me a goat in real life.

My idea of fun as a kid was making up stories about the things I saw. Well, that and playing with Lego blocks... but I suspect that one goes without saying for just about anyone here young enough to have been a child no earlier than the 70s.

D&D is just a big made up story about made up people doing made up things.

I've seen much more damage done by romance novels than role playing games. Now THERE is some fantasy writing!

Good point. Before I even knew what D&D was, I would take all my toys out, pick heroes and villans, and then create storylines for each character as I played through some epic plot.

I guess the only real difference is that D&D gives a guideline for how to use your imagination.