Automotive Technology

I am about a 6 hour drive from Yellowstone. For us dust fall out would be our bigger concerns being we have far more farm land than large structures and urban development.

Around here there are no real earthquake design requirements. Its just not something considered relevant in our construction techniques simply due to location and natural geological conditions. We have no real bedrock for thousands of down in much of our region which makes our ground naturally very absorbent to earthquake energy.

As far as wind power my state is putting up massive systems as fast as they can get them built!

Hi, tcmtech!

I had a hunch that You are close to Yellowstone, but I do not know geography of US and I tought I saw North Dakota on that volcano map... But, how can You drive there in just 6 hours trough all those mountains? At which speed?

That report say that Caldera at Yellowstone has risen 13 meters in last 10 years, and one half of Yellowstone lake is gone, and that most of trails are closed because ground is at 200+ degrees of Celsius.

Try to search >>Yellowstone supervolcano<< ... Some scientist say government don't want to plan evacuation because in first hour all in area of 600km diameter would be under lava and volcanic ash would cover area all the way to San Francisco. Check for yourself. 1/3 of US would be under volcanic ash, if that happen.... But, if 100 cubic KILOMETERS of ash got into atmosphere, there would be no sunlight for 15 years....

http://www.solcomhouse.com/yellowstone.htm

I would either make bunch of geothermal power stations and cool thing off with lot of water (but for this a sea of water would be needed), or make >>controlled volcano<< of smaller dimensions to went some of that pressure out. That should be less catastrophic for sure, and if it would be expected, so then people can go away in time and save themselves.......

In regard to Windpower stations, my are much better than contemporary models and work as long as there is wind without need to stop. They don't need any electricity for work either. For small sum of 50 000 Euro I could finalize it to point of engineering drawings, and then installation can begin. They need much less wind to work and automatically use strongest wind in case there is laminar flow.

If You would be interested to invest money, I shall give You 10% from fixed Production License price, and 20% from each License You would sell.

If You get me Investor, You get 5% also.

I tried to contact Mr. T. Boone Pickens, but cannot bypass program that reply automatically. One friend have contacted him in January, and Mr. Pickens was interested, but asked for >>Proof of Concept<<.

I guess engineering plans would be enough for this.

If made from good materials (for instance, stainless steel or UV stabilized Nylon plastic, maybe carbon fibers enhanced), my Windpower stations could last very long time as there is no moving parts that could wear out, save for generator, and turbine is also indestructible.

No need for big cranes, access roads, no bird kill nor infrasonics created, all the best there can be!

I could explain it all, if You would be interested, but after signing some Agreement about cooperation or representation of my company....

I have also new kind of Solarpower stations also that need no heliostats to work, and my passive windpower stations could be combined with Solar concentrators also.

Land footprint is near zero, and even unfertile land could be used as part of construction can be used as greenhouse.

Regards, Marijan Pollak

Sorry my misprint on the drive time. Its 12 hours away. I was thinking it was 12 hours round trip for some reason. (I was a teenager about 20 years ago when I was last in that area) Still thats far enough away for me to have far less earthquake concerns than ash concerns.

No mountains for most of the trip though just relatively flat prairie and interstate roads all the way there. There is some mountainous terrain for the last 100 miles but still it has 4 lane road according to the maps.

Thanks for the investment offer but no. I have my own wind power systems to build And they too use no power when not in operation. As far as harvesting low speed wind the low available power and high cost of design for a machine that can do it just doesn't work out in most applications. Plus a system that does work well with very little wind becomes severely limited in what it can efficiently capture and convert in high winds.

What I have worked on for most of my life has shown that for cost VS design and operation forgetting about the < 8 MPH winds and focusing on catching as much energy as possible from the > 20MPH winds we regularly have around here I can easily produce more usable energy in a day than in a week of low winds.

I wrote that my PS can be tailored to prevailing wind at location, but be able to use whole available range of wind speeds.

Same way, You are at exceptional location, but slower winds could be found nearly everywhere:

Then there is cheaper cost and simpler installation, practically no maintenance and no breakdowns, save for generator, but since it is on the ground then it is easily maintained and repaired or replaced.

My PS do not use electricity at all, only produce it.

But, it is Your choice to limit Yourself on one area and spend life in maintenance and costly repairs.....

Regards, Marijan Pollak

So how is a complex web of tubing thats going to be quite heavy and time consuming possibly get fabricated and installed for less that the current single tower three blade systems that are basically a big gearbox, synchronous generator, and some smart switchgear?

And what power are the current systems using thats so great when they are idle? I've been in them before. The systems monitoring the whole machine are basically a small computer that at most draws a few hundred watts. Thats a pretty small standby load in comparison to the 1.2 megawatts they put out while running. In my location they do have to use gearbox heaters in the winter if the units are sitting idle for a lenghty period of time. Still that power usage is very small when compaired to what they produce when running.

You may really like and believe in your design but apparently the people who make money off of stuff like this are very sceptical. I don't blame them myself.

From an engineering stand point simple to build, ruggedly built,and low parts costs are why the big units look and function the way they do. They may give up some power on the low end but they more than make up for it on the top end where they are designed to run most efficiently at.

Same with what I have designed and built. Mine are just scaled down home built versions of the big systems but with a different generator and line connection system that does allow them to produce power right down to the stall speed of the blades themselves. Or about 4 MPH. Below that the power in the wind is so low it just doesn't justify the added expense of trying to go after it. Tackling the top end extreme high outputs levels produced from the normally too windy type conditions generates far more overall power on a time VS output measurement for much much less design and fabrication costs. Plus building a system to purposely work in very high winds means it can take a tremendous amount of abuse without problems.

Hi tcmtech,

You keep missing my point about spending electricity in contemporary WPSs, as I do not talk about spending it while they are NOT working as this is small, I am talking about time when they should start when they have to turn into wind by use of motors, they must use generator as motor to get started and they use motors to regulate pitch of turbine blades in attempt to keep rotational speed approximately same.

That is the reason of Grid breakdowns (or so I have read) when farms with hundreds of WPS want to start, and this cannot happen in use of my models.

My WPSs don't work this way, and tubes can have just skeleton with sailcloth spanned over this to get air flow in right direction.

Weight is no problem as whole construction sit on the ground, specially in case of >>Windtraps<< that are passive and do not turn. So even several tons of pipes are not critical, compared to 50 tons that is usually on top of that big pipe or tower in contemporary models.

Gearbox is not needed at all, so there is less cost, less possible need for repairs, no need for maintenance and less loss of energy in transmission.

I cannot agree that it is easier to produce contemporary turbine blades from fiberglass, with complicated system of cooling since their edges went hot in full speed, and using accessways and platforms for that special heavy duty cranes that has to be used to install them and repair them is far from >>simple<<.

Heck, I could make parts for my WPS using hammer and anvil and electrical drill with a stand that has wise to hold that pipe when it is being bored trough.....

All parts are simple and could be connected with nuts and bolts, that is all it takes..

Simple scaffolds are enough for installing it all by hand, there is no problem with transport to the site and so on.

In regard to other points You raised, my WPSs are able to withstand anything and use all available wind without problem, but this I would explain to investor who sign NDA at least with me.

Strong wind are impossible to use like You describe, even if You are producing DC and feeding batteries, as those can start boiling if charged too fast, while centrifugal force may tear such turbine apart. That is reason why big models has to stop in strong wind, which still cannot completely save them from being damaged.

Since my WPSs capture wind, intermittent blowing is not problem like it is with contemporary models, nor laminar flow is source of damage for blades and axle bearings, but is exactly what is used for greatest possible energy production.

Therefore, my models are MUCH cheaper to produce and install, require NO maintenance and NO repair, save for generator unit which sit on the ground and is therefore easily accessible.

They can be built on top of existing buildings without need for special reinforcement for their base, specially on flat roofs, they make no noises, specially no infrasonic that is harmful for people and animals, they do not kill the birds, and they use available wind power MUCH more effectively while not making turbulences, and turbulent wind can be used as well without problems. Size is no problem, therefore capacity is greater by far, and they can be (passive models that do not turn) built in one group of 7 units where each can have one to six turbines, each at least 1 MW capacity, thus giving installations of 7, 21 or 42 MW easily that would use whole range of wind speeds in best possible way. Elements are modular so size is increased by simply puting more of them side by side. If good materals are used that can withstand elements and weather, their life expectancy is near infinite, and one ecological problem can be solved as well, together with producing savings as there is much less need for recycling plastic bottles if my design is used.......

They have ZERO land footprint, because lower parts can be used as greenhouses which protect vegetables or crops or fruits from bad weather and strong wind that cannot blow it away, therefore even previously infertile or stony ground can be turned into good agricultural land or they can be used for any other useful purpose as a warehouse, factory hall, office space, hospitals, cinemas and so on, you name it!

In addition, they can be used as advertisement space if situated by the roads, where they can protect road from strong wind by using it :-))

Of course, smaller models are not so useful as they have to have same height, unless there is strong wind available not so high from the ground......

But then, it is possible to install more small turbines inside one construction as well and get big greenhouse beneath it.

Same way, if big pipe with periscope ending is used for taping into high speed wind, then You can get best of both systems, but this periscope has to be able to turn with wind and would not be so protected from high wind speeds, except that >>Sail effect<< would be far less pronounced, and I have at once envisioned additional protecting system for it also........

So, I have covered every problem contemporary WPS have and turned most of them to good use.

I am sure that with my systems You can produce Megawatts where You are producing Kilowatts at present, with additional benefits as described......

As You know, all surplus electricity can be sold to the Grid company, even if at half market price, so why not use wind that is available and free?

Regards, Marijan Pollak

Not missing your point. I just prefer my designs more. Mine have been built and have proven themselves to be easy and simple to construct and install.

My stuff is also designed with passive furling and governing systems and will automatically protect themselves from over spin loaded or not. Its not new technology either but basically the same tried and true mechanical centrifugal type of blade pitching system thats has been used since the 1920's.

The only difference for me is that I build the units rather robustly and with oversized parts so that it can handle the higher winds where similar sized factory units cant. There is an upper limit of course but its above what the normal higher winds typically are. By using an oversized generator I can keep the blade speeds under control just by shear load alone. Should the load suddenly drop off the centrifugal furling keeps the unit from over speed just by changing the blade pitch to a less effective angle.

I do not use batteries but instead have my own grid tie inverter system I have designed and built myself. Being that a permanent magnet generator puts out power as long as its spinning its just a matter of setting the loading stages on the grid tie system to match it. Thats how I am able to pick up the lowest possible wind the blades can catch while still being able to put such a heavy load on the unit during high winds as well.

For me and my location I am happy with my work and what I have done so far. I believe my designs are solid and reliable enough now that I am building a system with a 21 foot rotor and 20+ Kw peak safe working capacity. There will be times when it will still be too windy to run without the governing system having to limit the input power but not often.

I have no plans to try and market or sell it to anyone though. My family and a few close friends will get ones of various sizes for free just because I want to give them one to help cut their electrical bills down. But I wont be trying to push them on anyone or be begging for financial investors either. I could care less about selling them right now. Its my design and I am content with what I have created and how they have worked so far plus I already have the money to actually continue to build and work on further developing them should I feel like it.

Very good!

Except, World need green electricity and anything useful and which is proven to work should be utilized to replace electricity produced by burning fossil fuels or gas, so if You don't have ambitions to produce and sell those good units by yourself, and if You don't need money, then make Your design Public property and publish instructions so people can build such for themselves and others. At least, there are companies that manufacture similar products for farms, and You can sell them Your design if it is better than their, just as long as Your models would be mass produced.

Or, maybe You are one that do not believe in Global Warming process?

Did You think about poor countries that need electricity also?

I do not aim to get rich from selling Production Licenses for my WPSs, I want to give people cheap electricity from reliable installation that would require as little maintenance as possible and which could be produced and installed anywhere.....

What money I earn would be invested in other inventions I have, so people would get water and be free from dependence on natural precipitation for food production.

Lot of cheap electricity would make it all cheaper, from electricity itself, fuels, factory products and food, and with people having more money they would at least be able to pay their mortgages and credits and would not become homeless, nor would Banks and Insurance companies collapse and take people's life savings down the drain.......

That is why I am doing this.....

I wish You all the best, and I would not bother You any more with my Windtraps, but You could have saved me and You lot of time if You have simply wrote this in first place.......

Regards,

Marijan Pollak

I could care less about what others want. My needs and wants come first. If others really want it as bad as I did they will figure it out themselves. I managed to do it by myself and so can they.

Global warmings more a scam at this point than a provable fact. Or at least too inconclusive to hold up to any real scientific scruteny. Its more of a false belief driven by political, big business, and clueless uneducated or missinformed eco tards because it creates cash flow and makes people feel good about themselves for doing next to nothing.

My country became what it is because we got off our ass's, got educations, and then worked smarter and harder to get what we wanted.

I wholeheartedly agree that some people are collecting money for themselwes under pretense of saving the World, and that is really bad and unethical.

Unfortunately You are wrong, as measurement in India show that sea level is rising 3 and 1/2 inches per year and salty water threaten to enter their rice fields, most of which are situated in valley of Ganges, so if that happen at least 30% of Indians would starve to death......

Evidence of Global warming is everywhere, and once sea level rise 6 to 22 meters, even US harbours would be under water, including Hawai islands and many other places...

My country as well as half of Europe would be under water when old Panonian sea would be formed again, France and Spain as well as big parts of Africa would be drowned as well as other low level ground near the sea in US like Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, San Francisco Valley.........

Just look on geographic map where low level lands are near the sea, and even North Dakota is not so far from Hudson Bay and lakes of Canada which would all rise and flood surrounding flat ground......

I would rather try to stop it then to be able to say: Told You so!

But if it is not Your concern, then forgive me for mentioning this......

Regards, Marijan Pollak

One aspect of sea rise that every eco nutter seems to ignore is that if the ocean rises in one area it has to rise in all areas world wide. India is in a higher than average geologically active region of the planet. The Himalayan mountain range is one of the fastest changing crustal areas on the world. There is a far more plausible chance what caused the perceived 3.5 inch rise is really that area the measurement was taken at actually dropped 3.5 inches due to that particular section of tectonic plate having been pushed up at its other end. Around here we are experiencing crustal rebound from glaciation that happened around 10,00 years ago that is causing our region to still rise slowly at a rate around .5 inch's per year in some areas. From our reference point the oceans are dropping in level! So without taking into account things that happened thousands of years ago plus local influences a simple measurement can be in fact incorrect.

If the world oceans rose 3.5 inches I would assume that the millions of people and business who own water front property world wide would be saying far more about it. But they seem to be not saying anything at all about their front yards and concrete docks disappearing.

Where I live is actually about 1500 - 1700 feet above sea level. My deck is at 1640 feet according to GPS measurements. No inland sea flooding will take place here.

So if that ancient Panonian sea your talking about comes back what exactly caused it to have been there before and then dry up? Where the cavemen back then causing global warming too and almost wiped themselves out when they flooded the earth? Or is it more likely that the earth follows a very long cycle of warmer and cooler periods with many little sudden bumps and dips along the way with ocean levels generally following those cycles as well?

You may want to study the other natural sciences before screaming global warming. There are many many more variables and natural effects that are at play in how the world climate and environments interact and without accounting for them any short term measurements, a century or less, are not valid or at least are very limited in general.

We humans and our actions are still a very small pail of water in a very large swimming pool and unfortunately when all the natural processes are measured scientifically there still has to be a small marine of error included. What we do as humans is measurable but unfortunately on the grand scale of things the majority of our actions still get lost in that error value.

I have to take a unbiased scientific view of life. If the numbers don't add up and the margins of calculable error are bigger than the measured effect I just have to wait until better measurements can be taken. Thats my stand on global warming. Right now the real numbers don't add up. There are too many variables at this time.

You are right that there is many variables that has to be taken in consideration, and You did not take all of them into consideration and You got some upside down.

For instance, as You say, Himalayas are highest mountains floating on Earth crust, and relatively (geologically speaking) new, so perhaps still rising, but then relatively to this Sea level should be dropping. Since this is produced by continental crash between India and Asia, then if Indian plate is going under Asia in that place, other part of same plate would rise, and to me geographic configuration suggest rising of rim of Asian continent.

Then, quite contrary to Your statement, AND because just like Icebergs, mountains show just their tips while having big hidden part underneath, India is most STABLE part of Earth crust, save for tectonic processes out in Indian Ocean near Indonesia, where tectonic plates are being pushed apart by same process that have pushed Australia away from Pangaea continent.

At same time, San Andrean fault is caused by tectonic plates going apart, so there is no reason for North American continent to rise, unless it is composed of smaller plates that collide or go apart.

As far as Croatia is concerned, our seashore is sinking at rate of 2m per 1000 years, so ancient cities from time of old Roman Empire are ruins under 4 m of sea. Panonian Sea dried up after rising of Alps, and we can find shells fossils at 1000m oversea level, but present flat ground is at sea level or lower. Just recently we have had highest tides measured in last 150 years, by 1.2 meters over maximum.

Therefore, we noticed changes also.

Moreover in last 10 years temperature has risen by 4 degrees and tropical algae started growing there, unfortunately of poisonous kind that kill our sea flora.

Next, our planet is not perfect ball but ellipsoid bulging at Equator due to centrifugal forces of Earth rotation, and for same reason more sea water is situated there, so since South India is much closer to Equator than Europe or North America, it is natural that sea level would be rising faster there then on continents situated on higher geographic height, where Equator is 0 (zero)...

You can check easily if measurement of sear level rising are correct by calculating weight of so much additional water, and what would effects of this weight be on tectonic plates of the World situated underneath sea. Surely more earthquakes would be registered and new volcanoes would appear while old ones would be reactivated, and that all has been registered.

Rising of sea temperature would cause more evaporation of water and faster rising of air that causes hurricanes to be formed, and that all would be stronger that before, and causing more damage, as is already noticed in US also.....

It is true that everything is in equilibrium, specially because continents are actually floating on thick layer of melted lava underneath, but exactly for this reason it is easier unbalanced by even relatively short time push on either side.

It is also true that we know but little, but assuming that we measure what we can and make conclusions about what is going on, can we just ignore some conclusions and wait until they would be confirmed by great loss of land or disproved in future?

Is it not better to act on things we can change, if that may have influence on cataclysmic effects that would follow if theories are correct about what is going on and what is causing it, regardless if this is some natural cyclic process or is caused by burning billions of tons of fossil fuels during industrial history of mankind?

But to be concerned, one must care about other people, which according to Your own statements, is not the case in least, save for few of Your relatives excluded.....

So, keep sitting on Your own mountain and watch World going under, but don't think You would be spared of consequences when this happen, as survivors would also come seeking higher ground.......

I would try to ignore CR4 threads for a while, because I did not have find help nor much understanding from undoubtedly inteligent people who gather there to discuss theories and philosophy......

Regards, Marijan Pollak

I just used the time honored tactics of politicians, business executives and typical environmentalists and just made up technical sounding and unsubstantiated explanations that I have no clue as to if they are even remotely plausible or not! Sort of like you have done also.

To be honest I haven't really cared about any of this stuff all that much. Its just been a fun and albeit childish game for the most part. What can I say, I don't believe crap about global warming issues or care all that much about what others want or don't have, let alone if they drowned. I have my reasons for what I believe and think and I don't need to explain them to anyone. If its proven that global warming is real well I have a whole stack of tires and plastics I am going to burn because well... Its dam cold around here in the winter and I like having 50 degree F weather in January!

Granted I do my part to recycle and conserve energy but mainly because recycling pays me cash and dumping everything in the trash costs me money. Same with producing my own power. I like having all of my wasteful junk running all the time. I just don't like paying the electric bill for it.

Good, bad, whatever. My wastefulness is what gives people jobs in other countries! So should I be more conservative and let some third world people starve because I didn't leave all my useless stuff turned on and the windows open while the heat is turned up while I was gone?

P.S. I am just messing with you. I bet you got a bit angry reading this though!

Not angry but sad......

I really need help and I wasted so much time writing posts which all comes to nothing since it is all fun and games to You.

Well, as people in Croatia say: >>Every school costs<<........

At least I know there is nobody serious here on CR4.

Bye!

If your really looking for an honest opinion from someone who does regular fabrication I can at least give you that much without games.

1: Your wire frame model represents a manufacturing, installation and maintenance nightmare. Its simply a complex and time consuming form to build in comparison to what function it serves. Even with mass production fabrication equipment, which costs even more up front money to make in the first place, its still a complex and time consuming structure to produce and install regardless of what materials its made out of.

2: Alternative energy has to be cost effective to compete. Thats the proverbial bottom line that investors look at. The person with the money doesn't look at the concept of how much good it will do the world. They look at how hard did I have to work in order to get what I am spending now and will this investment pay me back in a reasonable time frame.

3: What I see if I was considering on investing in your design is this. A complex time consuming design that will cost much much more to manufacture per unit than a simple propeller on a stick design. Every dollar spent on additional fabrication materials and time means that the unit must run that much longer to pay for itself. Plus the more mechanically complex the deign the more likely it is to fail sooner.

4: Right now the three blade wind generators represent the best working design for the least amount of initial cost, materials, and effort. (lowest invested cost with best financial turn around time) Plus the current blade designs are already pushing the limits of aerodynamic efficiency for the effective range of wind they work in. You simply cant get all that much more power out of a given area and speed of wind without greatly limiting or changing the systems operational parameters and design costs.

5: The real life issue when collecting free energy its not about how efficiently you do it but how simply and cheaply can you create a reliable device that does it. When I built my first wind generator systems I didn't care how efficient my 6 foot blades made from hand carved 2 x6's where. When I needed more power than I was getting from them just put on bigger blades and covered more swept aria. That approach was far simpler, faster and cheaper than creating a more efficient airfoil than what I was using.

6: Why I think investors are sceptical about your system. It may in fact work well in low winds and have slightly more efficiency but highest average power, lowest production cost, longest life span with the least operational costs, and what does it cost to put one in place Vs the return time on that investment is what sells. Efficiency and hugging trees are not in the equation.

If you can prove that you can in fact build and install (in the United States) a fully functional system that produces 1.2 megawatts per hour, has an effective service life of 50 years, takes up a foot print of less than 40 feet in diameter of ground usage, all for less than $2.2 million, with a pay back time of around 15 years or sooner you will likely get someone who will invest.

Good Luck!

Hi tcmtech,

This is school example how different people look in same thing differently!

Where You see complexity, I see simple repeating pattern of parts that are easy to make, even from Bamboo sticks.....

Since all connections are same, all it takes is to have system enabling three pipes or sticks to be connected.

I could do it from pipes using hammer and anwil to beat ends of pipes flat and drilling a hole and then connect three pipe ends with one nut and bolt together.

It is that easy.

It does not require sophisticated roll bearing to turn on, so one can use even simple pipe segments put side by side radially with some grease applied.

Simple scaffolds would be enough to build it on site, without any crane.

Severall segments could be preassembled in factory if practical or just as easy put together on site.

If bigger size is required, simply more elements can be put together.

For start, half of construction become roof and walls (geodome shape) of big greenhouse, so land print is minimal. I land is infertile, it could be improved by composted earth, or it could simply be added in half meter layer.

If one dont need a greenhouse, it could be used for barn, store, a bar, You name it (even for a house)....

Since little workmanship is required, production price roughly equals to that of materials.

My passive systems are still better as they dont turn, and one construction can hold one, three or six or seven turbines , which means as many MW can be produced, and more systems are in one construction, less it cost averaged per MW of capacity installed. Most expensive part is generator as even my turbines are cheap to build, need no bearings and could last forever, if made of good materials, same as construction.

Since generator is on the ground and is not burdened by turbine, it needs just regular greasing, if at all, depending on bearing type.... Surely in such conditions it would last longer than usuall, specially since it is vertically positioned so there is no burden on bearings from axle in usuall way.

I could continue describing, but I think this is just enough to prove that my instalations are exactly having characteristics YOU described as required.

Production cost of 1MW unit should be not higher than 1 million US $, but 3 MW unit would cost just 2 millions total. If Wind on location is strong, 3 MW generators could be used, where construction remains to be same, so cost difference is from generators only. With mass production of generators, that would be made possible by mass use in my Power Stations, their price would fall at least in half, thus making cost of installing such PS still less by at least 1/3 to 1/2........

If market price in US is 200$ per MWh and it has to be sold at half market price to Grid like it is in my country, it would be 100$ per MWh earned. The rest depend how much wind there is to be used. With average 10 hours of wind per day in say 200 days per year, that would be 2 000 MWh produced per year and 200 000$ earned.

That means that if total cost would be 2 million $, instalation would pay itself back in 10 years. With life cycle of 50 years, it would earn 8 million $ to owner in pure profit.

But, if same instalation is captive plant for a factory, then savings are 200$ per MWh, therefore instalation pays back itself in just 5 years, and saves 18 millions more to owner in its lifetime........

Fortunately for owner, it could last easily twice as much or more, and I allready calculated with good durable materials at start.

This is calculation for most expensive variant of 1 generator per construction, others are even cheaper on per MW capacity installed, and would produce that much more electricity per instalation.

Beside this, use of >>greenhouse<< surely brings additional profit without added investment for building it. There are other benefits as side effect of my turbine use such as lack of infrasonics, no birds kill, automatic use of strongest layer of wind in laminar flow, which means 3 MW generator could be used from start, WPSs could be put together in groups of 7 and much closer can those groups be to each other, resulting in much greater capacity >>Wind Farm<< on much less land, and without accessways necesary, crane site fundations and much shorter High Voltage cables, total cost is much less that with classic models of 1MW capacity or more, and those additional expenses You have forgot to take into consideration........

So everything in all, who would NOT want invest in such Power Stations?

My ONLY problem with investors is LACK of investors within my reach.

As I mentioned before, I have factories interested in production allready, since they are producing generators and they recognized the oportunity to sell more generators and motors if they sell complete PSs.........

They are ready to start at once when I supply engineering blueprints, that is why I am looking for investors that would have to invest relatively little money to enable me to buy appropriate software and computer hardware, and they stand to gain at least 10 times more from just ONE Production License sold.

I got buyers interested just from descriptions of benefits I sent them, but I dont have anything to sell as yet..........

This is just a start, as my Solars would cost still less per MW of capacity and would have same benefits as my WPSs, or can be combined in same construction and thus use still less ground. Not to mention that there is much more sunny days per year, and those would be able to work 24 hours per day or >>On Demand<<, when price of electricity is much higher in peak demand periods, so Solars would pay themself back even faster and earn more profit to owner...........

With cheap electricity I know how to remove CO2 from air permanently, producing usefull and marketable products at still greater profit, as same process is right now expensive because of expensive electricity.........

Oh, sorry, I forgot You dont care for reality of Global Warming, but perhaps investors would be interested because of profit, if for nothing else like >>Carbon Credits<<, lessening of air polution and possible mending of Ozone Layer holes.......

But there are additional benefits of cheap electricity, if factories use captive plants, then because of great savings on energy cost, they can lower prices of their products and so products would be more compettitive or affordable while bringing greater profits then before, and more sales would boost production because of which unit cost would be still less and there would be more jobs for people.

My water condensation devices of agricultural capacity would be ecconomic to use so agricultural production would not depend on quantity of rain for crops, but same goes for orchards and vineyards, or in least more grass can grow for cattle to graze.

Since in hot countries there is enough sunshine and not enough rain, that would enable people to grow their own food instead be dependent on charity or be chronically hungry and periodically starwing to death....

I have much more projects that need funding, all usefull for most of humankind, and it all depend on this initiall 50 000$ I need to start.

But, You know what happen? Investors realize how big profit there is in starting such production of electricity, and they got greedy, wanting to grab it all for themself.

Unfortunately for Croatian and investors from nearby countries it is not possible right now, as everybody has lost great deal of money in crash of prices of company shares they invested in, and they know that if they start pulling money out there would be panic and they would lost all, si they sit and dont move, waiting for financiall crisis to past.

Too late for those whose Banks collapsed and took their money down the drain.

If that did not happen to my company and if same Bank did not destroy 60 000+ companies, among which was my biggest clients that were about to pay bills for goods and services, I would finance it all myself, even start production also.

There was one American in springtime carrying 21 million Euro and looking for investment opportunity, and finding none, he went back home.

Unfortunately I got information 4 days too late.

After this, I wrote to Rockefeller Foundation who swears to exterminate hunger and powerty in the World and they deleted my emails without even reading them, and worse still, this was done by certain Mrs. Gomez who by this act deleted help that people of Mexico could have got to produce more food and perhaps export electricity to US also, thus lessening need for emigration to US, and so on.......

Same happened with Mr. Gates Fundation Mr. Obama's Fundation, Mr. Al Gore and severall other Fundations that did not even reply that they are not interested.......

I contacted Mr. T. Boone Pickens, but got answer from his company that they are preocupied with present Windfarm project and cannot devote time for new things....

If I could just contact someone who should understand what I write about, I am sure I would suceed to get support with explanations like this or even more detailed, as there are additional benefits I did not mention here...

So far, nothing.

Well, I am kind of mule headed man and I would be stubbornly persistent in trying to find someone interested, even if it would take calling Newspapers and giving interwiews on TV........

One man negotiate financing for over 9 months in Switzerland, and is right now in London finalizing this, but since he his own axe to grind, this all go too slowly and I think ge want get money cheap and take rest of profit for himself......

On the other hand, I heard that profit over 10% is suspicious to Investors and they refrain to invest in such ventures, so maybe he just dont want to scare them off......

I cant stand greedy people! :-((

Since as we say in Croatia: >>It is not finished untill it is finished<<, I still look for investors on my own, and if he finaly bring more, I have reserve to pay them also and speed up whole process of starting production.

But, I concluded that CR4 is not right place to search any more........

Sorry for spelling errors, I wrote again too much for spelling checker to handle....

Wow...

Been watching this unfold; very interesting this.

Henrik14, in your #42 you tell us you feel you have wasted a lot of time here. As an aside, I see you have written 4,751 words in just three posts (#20 - 1,469 words: #29 - 1,501 words: #44 - 1,781 words). I agree, that represents a fair amount of time. I regret you feel it was all a waste. Just because an investor does not appear from the mist should not condemn this effort to waste.

The original question of the Blog, "...In pursuing your quality goals, what do you find is the right balance between virtual and real prototypes of new products?" seems to have disappeared around #20 or so. With that in mind, perhaps you are correct in your assesment of wasted effort.

At least twice (#25, and #28), you tell us you have had investors are on the hook, but there is a reluctance to proceed without Proof of Concept. Is there nothing you can give them?

I doubt construction from bamboo sticks would last for your claimed life of installation. I further doubt construction of pipes with flattened ends bolted together with one nut and bolt would survive a whole lot longer than the bamboo.

I believe tcmtech in #43 (I think it is #43) is offering helpful, supportive input. I do believe it is a critical review of your concepts, but not demeaning or deriding them. (I also believe tcmtech can speak for himself, this paragraph is simply my opinion)

"If one dont need a greenhouse, it could be used for barn, store, a bar, You name it (even for a house)...." Now, there may be a useful improvement on your concept!

"Production cost of 1MW unit should be not higher than 1 million US $, but 3 MW unit would cost just 2 millions total. If Wind on location is strong, 3 MW generators could be used... " From your description of concept, I understand that strong wind is undesireable, harvesting low wind better than other designs... I cannot recall, have you told us the maximum sustained wind tolerated by this? How about gusts? How about sudden shifts in wind direction? Anticipated tolerance to temperature extremes? Rain / Snow? If posted somewhere here, please forgive me. I will read again anyway.

"There are other benefits as side effect of my turbine use such as lack of infrasonics, no birds kill... " These claims are valid, but no Proof of Concept?

I will close with an interest in your project (not as an investor, though), and with the hope you do not interpret my comments as derisive. My comments and observations are intended to be constructive, please accept them in the spirit intended.

I made the assumption that by us keeping the rating and non relevant the actual thread is not demeaned in any way more than when many other threads get a number of back and forth bantering between two or more people.

I have no actual ill will against Henrik14 in any way. I was giving him a real life hands on experience with dealing with someone who does take alternative energy systems seriously but also keeps an open but critical mind towards other systems. And a very cautious eye out for starry eyed environmentalists with far more dreams than realistic real life experience and knowledge in what the rest of the world thinks and sees in regards to said environmental issues. I played the Devils advocate to the better part of my ability on this basically.

In order to get anyone who makes money by investing in others peoples ideas to bite you need to take a very critical look at the realistic application, materials, manufacturing costs, set up costs, maintenance costs, life expectancy, and what other systems that are doing what you propose your system to be able to do also. And after all of that be able to back it all up with real numbers taken from real experience gained by actually having built and ran real large scale prototype devices for several years in a wide range of documented weather, operating conditions and locations. Guesses and eco preaching will drive away an investor faster than you apparently see or understand. My posts are an example of that. Sorry but I felt you needed to see what happens when the potential investor starts seeing you as a nut and not a knowledgeable level headed business person.

I meant no harm or ill will but to show what can happen if you get too far off topic with thoughts and information not relative to the item at hand. Especially when you start eco preaching about someones home land and proposing rather nuts sounding disaster theories that flat out show you to have little real knowledge of the region or the actual conditions of the location your speaking of. Plus you clearly don't get that some of us have educations in areas that do relate to the environment and from our perspective the global warming concept is more scam theory than a fact. Its plausible but until more real provable facts are presented in clear and non biased ways we will never take sides with those who 'just know its true'. To us your opinion is not much different than that of suicide bombers and terrorists who 'Know they are right' also.

I hope you see now that this site in fact does have people who take others ideas seriously but also have educations and practical life experience in areas that you clearly don't. Just because all of the people here didn't jump on your enviro nut dooms day preaching band wagon doesn't mean no one here cares about the environment or about making new things to help it out. By nature people of engineering and business backgrounds need real numbers that they can see and real proof of concepts before they will ever follow. Their just not that dumb or gullible. They leave that area to the experts like politicians and tree hugging fools.

When and if you ever do get the process figured out as to what it takes to get a new system or device like yours into the market you will see that it will take you many years of work and millions of dollars before the first production units ever get into the first stages of manufacturing. Until then its just an interesting dream with some rather weak numbers and theories holding it up.

Trust me from my personal experience. Theres a reason I have no interest in putting my designs into production. They may be better than whats out there in many provable ways but still its a battle I don't want to pursue. I am a realist, and by that I realize I am further ahead for my efforts if I just give them to family and friends and completely forget about getting rich off of them. Appreciation by a precious few is worth far more to me than false adulation from countless strangers.

I am sorry that You see me as >>doomsday theorist<<, and if it were not for Al Gore, former US Vice President, perhaps I would not know about >>Global Warming<< at all, since I live in informational backwaters, diluted only recently by appearance of Internet with knowledge available for asking.

As for thread, it is still open to others to discuss original theme, I would say...

In this regard I asked questions that were not answered, and I would still like to know those answers, from people with experience in use of such software.

Why would one idea take years and millions to come to production stage, if it should work and is at least partly proven by computer calculations, that I do not understand, sorry. Unless we are sure it would be success, we would not be so foolish to even think of starting to build it, simply because our resources are limited and we cannot afford to squander them. I cannot recall one single project that flopped, as far as I am informed.

For instance, my father who was gunsmith and toolmaker engineer copied machines like Pantograph he used in factory by measuring everything, making wooden models of parts in 1/2 size, having it poured in sand mold out of steel, worked it over, finished and put together at home. It has had to work on first try, as he invested all his life savings in this, so he could not have just throw it all and start from scratch.

Of course, it worked. Same as two other machines he built according to his own drawings. Being a gunsmith, he made revolver for 27 bullets, also on first try. But to have arms was forbidden, so he disassembled it after showing me how it worked.

Here, all is planned and calculated precisely in advance, and if calculations was not correct man would lose job, and in older time, just after WW2, would be shot as saboteur. So it did not happen that someone calculate something wrong, because there were teams of 3 persons doing same calculations and cross checking every now and then to see if results match.

Beside, Croatians were long under rule of German Kings or rulers, and Germans are known for their discipline and exactness. Moreover, we were defenders of Europe for 1300 years, assigned to task but without much material support, so we got used to depend only on ourself and each other. Therefore, each plan has to be perfect and working, in battles or in technology producing arms as it was question of life and death most of the time. That is long tradition, and still alive when I was younger, and this is how we got war for our freedom even we were disarmed first and forbidden to import arms by UN, but we made our own. In Vukovar, 150 warriors destroyed 53 tank brigades and 37 war aeroplanes defending it with hands arms and their ingenuity.

There was no chance for second try or trying new model. I am sure they did not just blindly improvise hoping it would work.

Same way, I would not even speak about something if I would not be 100% sure it would work, as all we have here is our good name and our honour, and that is more valuable than life itself, so we would never compromise this.

Well, perhaps I am just old fashioned. Most certainly, nobody is here that could say I did something that did not work, and was not best solution to some problem.

They used to bring me problems that everybody else has proclaimed unsolvable ( and they were betting on me behind my back ), presenting this as ordinary assignment that anybody can do, just that now it was my turn to work on it.......

What to say, some people built houses from money they earned on my expertise by betting on me, as I never failed to solve problem. I also usually gave so original and theretofore unheard of solutions, that they at first moment failed to understand my solution, and thought about money they would lost, thinking that finally I failed. They would take hours of my explanations and still don't understand, until I showed them proof... Even then they sometimes refused to believe that this particular solution could work. One time whole team was formed to study, and prove or disprove me, since (i have found this years later) great deal of money was to change hands.......

Took them three weeks to get same results as mine, both sides independently, against my 2 hours of work :-))

Once I saved 82 millions US $ in penalties to one company working as subcontractor to Westinghouse while building Nuclear Power plant in Krsko.

There was 7 or 9 engineers working on same problem for almost half year, where it took me half minute to solve it, and better part of it was spent on recounting facts they told me. I was 26 years old, and not engineer by trade, so they were so ashamed that I found solution instead that they did not called me to a party Westinghouse organized to celebrate their finishing work before deadline.

Maybe they also pictured themselves as originators of idea, who knows...

But, that was other time and all we do was >>For the People<<, so I did not really cared about celebrations.

Same was on Institute Rudjer Boskovic, as I offhandedly solved hard problems scientists were baffled for months or even years, and they refused to believe that I also don't have couple of Diplomas in Science just like them :-))

That went that far they they investigated in Personnel Department about my qualifications :-))

But, everything is a system, and I am Systems Analyst and Systems Engineer, even if I am retired and poor.......

Well, here I am, but this time I want to do so many things that I really need money to realise this.

So help me if You can, or prove me wrong, if You can.........

Regards from Zagreb, the Capitol of Croatia, Europe!

Marijan Pollak

It maybe different where your from but here in order to bring an item such as this to mass production you will need licencing on many aspects of the design. Multiple patents on the design, legal backing because someone will eventually argue with you about it being your design in hopes that you pay them off to leave you alone, research and development in order to make them mass producible costs a lot of money, all the people, organizations, companies, and officials involved will cost you money as well.

A good example of a total waste of money is a basic UL listing. That means that you volunteered your design to be independently tested and then certified as safe. Heres the catch. Its completely voluntary however without that certification you cant sell your product. And the voluntary testing costs around $100K or more. And every model you make and every revision to every model needs to be re certified. 10 models with ten revisions each could run you well over $10 million and about 2 -5 years of delays before they could go into production.

For an interesting and eye opening read read up on the history and change in direction of the underwriters laboratory from when and why they where founded and then take a close look at what happened when they went form non profit to high profit and could then buy their way into politics. It explains a lot about why a voluntary test costs $100K and up and you cant sell your product without it even though its supposedly not required in the first place.

Basically if you want to build them one at a time by yourself there is little overhead cost involved. However if you want to mass produce them a pile of money is going to need to be spent before you even start. Its how legitimate business work here.

As far as believing Al Gore, he is a politician. The global warming stink he made netted him and his friends millions of dollars and loads of political power for his efforts. However now there are countless scientists and researchers in our country and in other countries too, finding far too much questionable information that relates to the global warming issues in general. That reviewing and questioning of information has had a very large and influential part in why its now not being called global warming but rather global climate change. Just calling it a change is rather meaningless because the global climate is dynamic and is constantly changing any way.

By just referring to it as global climate change that allows for some places to get colder and others to get warmer just like its been doing since the beginning of time. For the clueless and misinformed it sounds drastic and bad. For anyone that did their homework and listened to both sides of the story plus have studied up on the worlds environmental history its just a fancy name for nothing out of the ordinary happening. Its just got a new fancy and foreboding spin on it now thats all.

It comes down to being just more dirty politics and shady reasoning for forcing change through scare tactics in order to further control and limit peoples freedoms in some ways. I am not a conspiracy believer by any means but to me when the numbers just don't add up and you tell me they do and I should believe you or else, I do sort of think that just maybe there is another reason behind what your trying to that is not in my best interests.

Yes, You are right about Mr. Gore, I tried to reach him, but got only donation requests.

Curiously, Rockefeller foundation that turned my inventions down as >>not what they are doing at the moment<< sent me to look their page, and they are preparing Africans how to survive >>Global Warming<<......

But, I at least hope there is connection between CO2 content and temperature rise, because in Ireland they use what they call >>Artificial trees<< to chemically bind CO2 and then dump it underground.

That is waste of money since this chemical has to be manufactured, which process spend energy produced by burning fossil fuels which produce (I think more) CO2....

What You describe is real nightmare, so I hope our politicians did not find this yet.

Here only home appliances need to be attested, but so is all that is imported, measuring instruments have to be calibrated, and if they do not have expert for calibration then importer has to send their men to factory for 6 months or more so they can learn how to calibrate it properly, and when they come back, then they would calibrate it and You would be allowed to pay for it........

Anyhow, I would leave production to others and keep rights to market it Worldwide, in some cases, or I would withdraw to work on other inventions.

Whoever buy Production License would be interested to protect his production, therefore it would be natural to fill for patent in such country also, in my name.

But I must sell it to Chinese first else they would copy it first. That way at least I can limit their export to other countries, and they would have hands full with their own market for next 20 years :-))

So, everything in all, You did not use any computer program for >>Virtual construction<<?

Hello again, Henrik.

Word count is going up fast! Another 2,990 words in your last three posts!

Your comment about Chinese copying your idea illustrates a thought I have... are any parts of your turbine patented? Are these patents enforceable on the international market?

For an example, an automobile. The auto itself is seldom patented, but is made of MANY parts that are. Your ideas about very low maintenance bearings intrigue me, perhaps that need a little more description. Perhaps patent royalties from the myriad components could finance the entire turbine you are so passionate about? If you have solved many of the engineering difficulties with improvement of existing components or techniques, there would be (I believe, anyway) a worldwide demand for them.

Dear Doorman,

I have applied for Patent of my turbines in all possible variations, and I am reasonably sure that SUCH turbine is NOT invented yet, since I spent months searching trough Patent Databases, at least those that are free to access, since I have no money nor Credit Cards.

Yes, patents are enforceable, but it has to be patented in each country separately, even inside European Union........

China is special case, there piracy is government approved as they don't recognize Patent rights from other countries :-((

My turbine need no bearings since it creates its own >>Air cushion<< on which it levitates. That at same time make it appear weightless to generator axle, while having extremely good system for torque transmission from turbine to generator axle.

It has very few parts that are welded together, so parts by itself cannot be patented. What is new are ways of converting kinetic energy of air twofold, and internal compressing and speed up of air flow.

Yes, THAT is EXACTLY point I am trying to convey all the time: THERE WOULD BE WORLDWIDE DEMAND for my Windpower Stations, whose central part is my new kind of turbine, for which I hope that it has great efficiency in energy conversion.

Since turbine cannot regulate airflow to make it constant, that is task for remainder of construction, which, unlike any before it, also protect itself from too strong wind by using power of that same wind......... Therefore, countermeasures are always proportional to strength of wind as it itself activates them.

Therefore, I have to patent also constructions as integral part without which my turbines cannot optimally work....

If You would be interested in cooperation, we can have Agreement about it and then I shall reveal You all details..........

I cant make heads or tails of how either of your designs actually work let alone convert wind power into electrical power based on your discriptions or models at this point.

Would you care to start a new thread so we can discus the physics of what it is your supposedly doing?

You don't have to give up any highly specific details but rather just a reasonable theory of design and operation that can be confirmed or debunked by standard aerodynamics and physics principals.

If your claims don't add up then there is no point in your pursuing anything. Physics will determine the true value of your creations rather quickly and easily. Plus having a world wide resource of engineers, some specializing with air flow and aerodynamics principals, to check your work over for free is a good idea that should never be refused!

If everything checks out its a great reference point for when your talking to investors!

If I say anything more, I would reveal it all, because exactly those principles employed together are what make my turbine work.

Enter Agreement for cooperation with me and then I shall tell You all.

I guarantee You that thing works, because I have made small prototype to test it, and it works as I expected, if not better, in spite of its crudeness.......

If I start new thread, then I would have to reveal all principles involved, as there is nothing else to discuss about, right?

But it is not about new principles but old and proven ones, and only their synergy is what gives result greater than simple sum of their effects by themselves......

Just study toy turbine I posted and try to find how effective it is and why.

It is closest thing to my turbine, as same principles are at work (+ some more).

Wow! Somebody's counting my words!

Yes, original theme got lost in contest of experience and perspiration versus inexperience helped by intelligent tool......

I originally asked which tool is best, but this also got lost in discussion.

In regard to Proof of Concept that could be different thing for different people, but usually means prototype or pilot construction. To build scaled down prototype would require smaller generator that cost money which I don't have, and amount of work would be about same as in >>real sized<< prototype, just with little less perspiration used.

Therefore I concluded that >>Virtual<< Prototype should be it.

Prototype of turbine by itself don't show much other than it would turn nicely, but it should be of proper dimensions that produce 2500 Rpm with enough air flow.

In regard to bamboo sticks, hardened on surface by fire and covered in lakh, I would say they would last indefinitely, specially since they are to be encased into plastic, but You could not have known this from picture. Same thing is with pipes if made from stainless steel, there would be nothing to rust, and each joint would be protected within plastic cover........

So I can safely count it would last until some volcano don't throw lava on it.......

In regard to tcmtech, I welcome any criticism if it is constructive, as I could answer questions like Yours about Bamboo (which is cheap, so even replacement from time to time would be inexpensive, but I think not really necessary).

So, he has his own view and I have mine. I can only hope to make him see things as I do, and then we would agree about this, but in case he see something that I don't, it would be helpful to me also, as I always consider what other people see, searching for something I assumed and is not there....

In regard to a bar, I wrote what first come to my mind, and in most >>Western<< movies I saw, there was always at least one..... It could have been school, hospital, barn.... Still I think Greenhouse is best use as then loss of agricultural land is negligent.....

In regard to strong wind, I supposed I wrote that installation could be >>Tailor made<< for location, that is main capacity adjusted to strongest and most frequent wind speed at location.

Now, it is question of economy: cost versus actual use frequency. If for instance there is almost always 3-5m/sec wind with just few stronger gales, then installation would use weaker wind normally, and strong when it appear, but only in same MW output as surplus wind strength would be unused.

In case where strong wind appear regularly and frequently enough to be economically used, then there could be three turbines or one big and three smaller, or any combination that would allow use of weak wind on small turbines and strong on all of them, or small turbines would work first one, then all three in strong wind.

So, depending on ranges and frequency of available wind, installation can be composed and even 3, 4 or seven grouped together.

If weak wind appear on location rarely, then it would not warrant installation of small capacity turbines and generators, and it would be ignored as economically useless. In that particular case, only big turbines and 3MW generators would be used, even in groups of 3, 4, 6 or 7 in same installation, and even groups of 3, 4 or 7 installations could be put together side by side, to use as much wind as possible. Same is true in case wind is weak, of course, just turbines would be smaller.

Point is that weaker winds could be found nearly everywhere in contrast to strong ones.

This You can nicely see on this map.........

My WPSs would be made to withstand any wind strength, if this is not something hurled by wind at construction, specially in case of passive models or >>Windtraps<< that do not turn at all. Reaction to changes in wind direction would be immediate, since even active models are turned into wind by the wind itself, so wind keeps entrance aimed directly in direction it blows, using tail and eccentric shape as lever. I could guarantee You that gusts are not problem either, just like intermittent blowing, but then it depend on frequency of periods without wind and their length. My construction capture wind and turn it into internal pressure by use of another invention that I have to submit for registration yet. Basically, those are doors that open to inside only, so when wind stops and internal pressure become greater than this from outside, doors are pushed from inside and become closed. Then this pressure is used and renewed continuously when there is wind available. If pressure becomes too strong, there are mechanisms to vent it out at side in the wind-shade where usually is under-pressure formed by wind bypassing installation from outside. That way, construction become >>transparent<< for wind of any force and cannot be damaged by it.

In regard to tolerance to extreme weather conditions, I aim to make it able to withstand anything and continue to work. Actually this is one of reasons I look for good simulation program that could simulate any weather or combinations possible anywhere in the world......

Passive models would not be problem, and I think they would be used mostly, except where few Bamboo sticks and sailcloth can be used to make active and self regulated WPS, but only problem would be snow and ice or sand carried by wind, and while mostly Bamboo don't grow in such areas, in case of metal or plastic constructions in cold climates or deserts it could become problem, but mainly because of big roll bearing situated on the ground. Solution is of course to lift point of rotation higher off the ground, and I have also models like this.

This blue torus is here rotating platform instead of geodome base like on before shown model. It is disproportionately big, or it would be bigger but thinner, that is something I need calculations for........

If there would be need, I would add the tail, and here air outlet system is not shown as this would be too much for Patent office to unravel.......

Bird kill can be prevented by simply putting net on outside of main opening, and there is nothing moving outside of construction that can hack the bird in passing.

Therefore, at worst case bird would be blown over net and slide to one or other side, and when wind is not blowing, there is no danger except by night, unless some birds sleep while they fly :-))

Lack of infrasonic comes from requested turbine speed of 2500 Rpm, at which speed generator works optimally (at least this that I intend to use). That rules out ultrasonics also, I would say........

Now, see what I face: I need 2500 Rpm at turbine so there need not be any gearbox for speed multiplication, and I must know which exactly size should be and which volume and speed of air would produce this. I could calculate roughly even by hand how big diameter pipe should be and what speed of air should be to produce 1 ton of pressure on turbine wings so 1 MW electricity can be generated.

With standard turbine, it is known, but my turbines are different, as different as this

is different from standard turbines, so there is problem, how to model and simulate this (my turbine uses same principles as this >>toy<< turbine, which I studied, so this is good example), how would it change efficiency of WPS in >>standard models<<, if put instead of usual blades?

It has one big fault: no way to regulate speed, therefore my constructions are supposed to regulate it before it reach turbine. But, if speed need not be constant, like in case of water pump, it would be doing fine, even if I have find way to improve on this ancient design, to be more effective and not hack birds in passing.........

But then also, it present big obstacle to strong wind, so only way to make it less would be to put it sideways to wind, which then again collide with its self directing mechanism (a tail, which is not present here). So, it is not perfect for all uses nor for any strength of wind, but for some countries with passat winds that have constant speed, it would be good.

As You can see, it is far different from usual airfoil blades, so how to calculate kinetic energy extraction here? I had some ideas like sliding of weight down slope, but here gravity component does not make much sense, right?

Unfortunately nobody has have something like this in mind when writing fluid flow simulations, or at least I did not have found any program that could handle this......

Maybe solution is trivial for experienced mechanical engineer, so, can anybody help?

My turbine has another complication: ring of nozzles that blow air tangentially in same direction, opposite to direction of rotation, of course.

I would have to study reaction force created and resulting torque produced with various sizes of nozzles and different air speed, to be able to find optimal size and diameter for my turbine, as with bigger diameter angle distance grows, so there is weaker force necessary to turn the wheel rim, if I am not wrong :-))

But, must be I am right since my small handcrafted prototype works as expected by me or even better :-))

Still, I would appreciate any advice on this, with applicable formulas, if at all possible.........

So, not as an investor You say?

If I can get 50 persons understanding what I write, and if each can supply just 1000$, that would be enough. I would be ready to sign contract to return this loan 100 times greater, from first Production License sold!

Anybody want to gamble on me? :-))

Seriously?

Regards, Marijan Pollak

Its not all fun and games.

Have you considered using a different approach to securing an investor? You seem to be lock into a presentation you can not offer.

Then makeup for it with a reason that becomes so wordy people lose interest.

Remember nothing in life comes easy and when things aren't working to your satisfaction, or have responses that you don't want to hear. Stop blaming other people for it. Your in control.

Sure I did say earlier you need sweat and tears for things to work, but I should add that one also have to work smarter, not harder.

p911

So.

Then, what EXACTLY would YOU do in my place?

Then, what EXACTLY would YOU do in my place?

Every situaton is different, I'll try.

First look at you situation and assess it. Try to do it without bias.

1.) What did you do in the past presentation?

A.) what was good about it? Then expand upon it.

B.) What was bad or negative about it? Avoid this area when possible, but be prepared to control the situation if conversation goes that way. Address issues and concerns. DO IT BREIFLY, and directly. Do not try to side step it.

2.) Look for other alternatives.

A.) Look for a partner that is willing to share the risk. Separate the people that are only looking at the end without committing themselves to the project, stay away from these, and only go for the more serious. This is difficult, but you have to establish a network, Explained later.

3.) Establish a network, get your name out there, there is no stronger reinforcement is when people hear from other people about you. This can be powerful so BE CAREFUL when trust is involved and if you break that, you bring yourself as well as the integrity of the people around you down..

As far as word count look upon it if not criticism at least as opinions. I had a post where a member counted my words (no where near your word count) and then proclaimed I said nothing. And then went on to reiterate in his words what I just said. I felt he was an idiot, but I thanked him and I learn from it. Because it was wordy. I have a habit of telling experiences that become stories, and I try to avoid it because I understand it.

OK here's a short story; When I started my business, I made a business plan, and pick out (3) financial institutions where I planned on getting backing. What I did, I picked other places and practiced, I took their criticism and polished my presentation as well as my business plan, they pointed out my weaknesses. It took (2) years (it was a lot of money), but when I was ready, I presented to 2 of the 3 places I had planned. Both where very impressed, I had the backing before the month was up. I didn't even bother with the third.

IMHO, you lost me on your posts because it was wordy. When you are trying to sell something, try looking at yourself as an entertainer, try to keep these peoples attention. Keep in mind, once you have their attention, don't bomb.

p911

Well, I would say I do all this exactly.

Sometimes I am very brief, as for instance when I wrote to Rockefeller Foundation, telling them that I have inventions that could help provide food for one to three billion people.

I tried FIVE times in five ways, long and short......

Result? They deleted all without being read at all........

So, 1st. I cannot get investors because I cannot really get in contact with them.

2.nd. Investors want to invest big money AND that I provide 20% of my money.

While it is easy to employ big money by starting production, I cannot get

required 20%, specially when it is 100 millions loans range.

3rd. People are greedy. As I explain what I have, they realize how big profit can

be earned for really modest investment, unless one want to start production

which bring still much more profit. Then they want all profit there is, and

when it become clear that they cannot get financial support from Banks

since Banks ask for collaterals and guarantees for their money, they give up.

So even those that can help by providing services or cooperation or just

software and hardware, do not want to do it for % of my earnings later as

whoever they consult tell them it wold take years to realization, which is

NOT so.

4th. I have factories interested in production, based just on my description of

benefits my PSs would bring owner. They ask that I patent it first, or if I

have applied for Patent, to produce Engineering drawings/blueprints.

I understand that they do not want to invest money and take loans to find

later that someone invented that before me and can sue them for patent

infringement. For same reason, they don't want to invest into development.

5th. I contacted factories that already produce contemporary models of the

Windpower stations, and they invested lot into production so they want to

amortize those investments first. If they start producing my models, then

they can scrap their projects and would have to retrain people, stop 80%

of previous operations and therefore jobs would be obsolete as well.

Not much less, they are ashamed that their institutes for turbines which 30+

years work on improvements of their turbines did not, among multitude of

their PhD scientists did not have even single one to think up something as

revolutionary........

I heard unofficially that one such company scrapped their whole scientists team

of 70+ members after my presentation to company CEOs :-((

Still, they don't want to give support, at least until they return credits taken for

organizing present production, and that would take at least 10 next years.....

6th. Engineers I contact for cooperation are used to just do drawings of somebody

else's ideas and according to already made calculations, and are terrified when I

tell that I need help with calculations also, or they see it as huuuuge pile of

work with uncertain pay in unforeseeable future, and they simply give up.......

So, those are my problems. I tried every way and have no more ideas how to

find support or cooperation. Those that can do it ask for money in advance, and

those that can supply bare minimum of 30 000 Euro, want to get ALL rights on

ALL my patents, because they see I am in bad situation so they think they can

rob me, and even make me work for them for free.........

Let me tell You, I would rather die!

I am ready to take obligation to return 100 times more money, but it is not

enough for some people..........

Therefore, I need:

1st. Industrial Engineer that could help me with calculations or simulations if he

has software, else I can make program by myself if I have all formulas.

2nd. Way to make engineering blueprints.

3rd. Investor to help me get rid of mortgage loan remainder and providing

financing for Patenting of at least Windpower Stations, as from money

earned I can finance everything else.

That is all.........

Regards,

Marijan Pollak

Marijan Pollak

Sometimes I am very brief, as for instance when I wrote to Rockefeller Foundation, telling them that I have inventions that could help provide food for one to three billion people.

When you make a claim like that. Yes you do need proof, For one, from your posts the only thing that would back that up are your words. So I'll give it a try with words

If I was a potential investor, I would walk out.

3rd. People are greedy. As I explain what I have, they realize how big profit can be earned for really modest investment, unless one want to start production which bring still much more profit.

No, they are only protecting their wealth especially when you make statements thats nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion. IMO, It sounds more like a free energy machine, you do need proof, how did you come up with it, with out this proof yourself. It has to be more than a feeling.

Don't go for the big kill go for financing a pilot plant, and if the costs are still in the hundreds of millions. You have no chance. because the risks are too high no matter what proof or facts you have.

So even those that can help by providing services or cooperation or just software and hardware, do not want to do it for % of my earnings later aswhoever they consult tell them it wold take years to realization,

Of all the words you stated I have no faith in your project, even 100% of nothing is still nothing,

And your statement

which is NOT so.

That is only an opinion, Now look at all of these posts in this thread, and take the criticism and work on your weakness. Your weakness is not that you don't have the money, Your weakness is you can not present a convincing argument to gain a backing.

Now I will say this again because you are not listening, look at your situation, start networking, align yourself with people that can help you, I don't give a $#it if the financial backer believes you, hell they are not technical, they are only protecting their money, But if those potential fiscal backers hear leaders and experts in the area of energy production, and refer your name, if these experts believe in you, then and only then you may have a chance.

They ask that I patent it first, or if I have applied for Patent, to produce Engineering drawings/blueprints.

They are looking for a commitment from you, they also realize that having a patent does not mean it will work or perform. Hell it sounds like you give up on yourself before they do. You do not give a single ray of confidence. and it sounds like thats all you have to show. You are looking for someone else to pick up 100% of the risk of just on your unsubstantiated opinion

Frankly, you have nothing, but you are asking for millions.

Those that can do it ask for money in advance, and those that can supply bare minimum of 30 000 Euro, want to get ALL rights on ALL my patents, because they see I am in bad situation so they think they can rob me,

Bad ituation you have nothing now, except an opinion.

and even make me work for them for free.........

Consultant for free, you have a very weak base then.

Let me tell You, I would rather die!

You'll leave this world with what you come in with...nothing.

I am ready to take obligation to return 100 times more money, but it is not enough for some people..........

That still is only an opinion. And if it does not work. You have no proof that it will work to have that kind of returns with the exception of your unsubstantiated opinion.

Marijan Pollak, you intentions may be good, but you do not have a grasp of the world of finance.

I wish you good luck,

p911

Dear P911,

If I give all details of my inventions beforehand in order to convince investors or engineers, what is to stop them to steal whole idea and did not say even >>Thank You!<<?

Therefore, I cannot reveal this unless someone at least sign NDA, right?

Once details are explained, everyone see how simple and understandable it is, and since it is all based on old and proven principles, it is nothing unexplained that need proof in theory and practice.

But what is new is that I have combined several of those principles or effects to work un unison, supporting each other and giving result that is greater because of synergy.

I wrote what happened in that factory with 40+ years old institute for turbines after they signed NDA and I explained how my turbine works in front of their best experts, who had to admit that it must be working, specially since I brought that handmade and scaled down prototype that was working in front of them.

So, it may seem to You that I have nothing but words, and it is because You again don't read all, pull things out of context and jump to wrong conclusions, or make it look like this to provoke me to reveal it all...........

How can You say to experienced economist with 30+ years of experience in giving organizational and financial advices to companies that he do not >>have a grasp of the world of finance<<?

I was just working in different social setup and I do not know how things are done in US, that is all.......

I keep explaining that I need modest amount of money to be able to make at least >>Virtual<< proof of concept or better made scaled down prototype, and You insist that I am asking for millions, which is not so.

Anyhow, even if You sign an NDA and I convince You that thing work as I claim, You would still not be interested to do anything about it, would You?

Therefore, all my attempts to make You understand are futile waste of time......

Tell me:

Do I need to prove that >>Venturi Effect<< and >>Venturi pipe<< are real and that they can be used?

Do I need to prove that >>Coanda Effect<< exist and can be utilized?

Do I need to prove that there are Centrifugal and Centripetal Forces?

Do I need to prove principle of >>Action and Reaction<< or >>Reactive Principle<< used in Jet aeroplanes?

Do I need to prove >>Rotational Inertia<< used in gyroscopes?

Do I need to demonstrate principles used in turbine air compressors that they work?

Do I need to prove existence of >>Sail Effect<<?

Do I need to build another >>Hovercraft<< to prove that >>Air cushion<< can be used to levitate even heavy objects?

Do I? I would not say I do!

That is all OLD and PROVEN, so any single one cannot fail to work, is that not so?

So, tell me, IF You agree with me that nothing from above can fail, how could fail something that use those principles all TOGETHER, and in a way that each enhance results of others, and all is put together so that anybody can see that it cannot fail, specially in presence of prototype that demonstrably work, even in all its crudeness and imperfection?

Anyone understand that once turbine is made in factory or at least as result of 3D printing process, it would work still better.

So don't tell me I have just an opinion and nothing else, that is what You have in this case as You don't know what I have actually invented.........

In any case, You don't take me seriously, and You a priori make conclusions which are actually wrong.

So, assume for the moment that all I say is true and my invention would work perfectly, how can I convince anybody to help or invest just 30 thousand Euro I am asking for to be able to make engineering blueprints which factory requires of me?

It would be easy if everybody want to sign NDA before getting explanations in detail, but for some reason or other, nobody want to sign this, even if this do not COST even 1 cent, just putting signature on paper.

Unfortunately I must conclude that such persons want to steal my ideas, as I don't see any other reason to refuse it........

No, I did not give up on myself at all :-((

That is one of Your wrong conclusions or impressions.

But in a situation where I don't know if I would be thrown out on the street by Bank in the middle of the winter, and failing to get help from anyone, I am not in a best mood........

Regards, Marijan Pollak

It seems to me that we all think alike but we still don't understand each other.

So, I have grown up among machines, my father was making them, I used many and I am reasonably sure that I know how they function. Therefore, I have no doubt that my inventions would work, and I even made little prototype that work.

If that would be enough to get someone interested (I have 3D drawings made, nice and rendered) to invest money in finalizing design, that would be super!

This is one of my constructions (active) that catch the wind, and this is first one I draw, so there should be some additional supports and changes.

However, I am sure it would work and be cheap, specially if built from processed Bamboo sticks and sailcloth in countries where Bamboo grows naturally.

But, potential Investors want detailed engineering drawings OR >>Proof of Concept<< which is I suppose a prototype that work.

If I have money, I would be able to do it, as at least I would be able to hire Mechanical Engineer to make all necessary calculations so it would work like I know it would and is supposed to.

Since I have no money, I need proof for someone who would agree that it is doable and invest money.

Here is one of first passive models I call >>Windtraps<<. Here supporting construction has been removed as it is jungle of pipes anyhow, but you can imagine similar geo-dome that sit on the ground.

I even invented new kind of plastic bottles from which could be built this what could be used for DIY windmill projects, for pontoons, rafts and many other things, and among them, special kind of doors I use on my Windpower stations to capture wind.

If You two bright guys have the money, can we cooperate and start production?

I would not mind if You would build prototypes first or not, as long as it would not take lot of time and preclude us to start selling working models in time.......

But as soon as I get engineering blueprints, I am sure that Croatian factories would go for it.

I am using some old programs from time when my company was good standing and could afford to buy software, and I am sure that it would be much better, or even that I could get calculations done by program and have engineering blueprints made if I have proper tool.

But since my Business bank perished, taking all my liquid assets, as well as three biggest clients that perished also leaving big bills for goods and materials unpaid, I fight day by day to return remaining debt in spite of frozen Bank accounts, therefore I have no money nor much time to do it myself. Somebody suggested I should have filled bankruptcy and opened new company, but I am from family which would rather die of hunger than not pay debts made, so even if there is no Law by which even Bank account of my new company would be frozen also if I am owner, I want to pay my debts and save my 16 years old company which survived trough war time and many problems because of which 100 thousand other companies perished. Beside, I invested over 800 thousand Euro in it from profit I made instead of spending it, so when it would start earning money again, I could finance my other inventions that would also greatly help the World.........

So, seeing this examples, even if they are not perfect nor finalized, would You be interested to invest money in production?

If You help me right now with 30 000 Euro which I need to save my mortgaged birth house, I shall give You free Production License for US, on condition that You submit patenting papers in US in my name and give me 10% from selling price of units produced........

We can make Business Cooperation Agreement, and I would explain all details how it is all supposed to work and what it could do.

Interested? I hope You are!

After all, Production License price would be 5 million Euro, and You can sell it if You would not want start production, even several of them (but in this case I would ask half price also and my royalty I could split with You in half also)........

I have also new ideas for Solarpower Stations, Water condensation devices of agricultural capacity that spend much less electricity, or no electricity if idea how to make it work using just heat from Sun would prove correct.........

But let us start with Windpower Stations, if You are interested, of course!

Regards from Croatia, homeland of one of greatest inventors, Engineer Nikola Tesla!

Marijan Pollak, IT SA/SE 1st. Class, Instructor and Team Leader (retired)

I worked in Institute for Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Research, and I have seen many things there, so I know it is possible. In Italy they have factories for garbage processing for at least 30 years, and they recycle metals, plastic and turn organic waste into fertilizer.

If You do not read all I wrote, it is easy to pull things out of context and misunderstand everything.

In any job that is supposed to create something, one must plan from start, first rough outline, then divide this into functional parts, have clear idea how those parts would work together, and then plan each part in details same way. Such refining should go until one part under study cannot be divided further, and then this part should be designed and all calculations made. Since parts are interdependent, each should be parametrized, so that any change in functioning of preceding part that would change characteristics of input for next functional part or subsystem and would influence calculations in that parts that follow would automatically be set up for new calculations for that part.

That way one cannot get lost in forest of calculations, and result should always be correct, regardless of changes made.

Also, even most complicated system could so be analysed and constructed safely.

Planing is everything that matter. Who fails to plan, plans to fail.........

I am sure that whatever You have done, at least You have had rough plan, if not on paper, then in Your head.

Perhaps trough years such Plan has formed and You habitually use it, because it provenly work for You, even if You may think You are improvising.

If You would NOT know anything about thing You were told to build, except perhaps theoretically, would You still go about it same way as You do?

I don't think so.

Reading what one should read superficially may lead to failure and great loss of money.

Some 5 years ago, I was approached by company producing water condensation devices to become representative and sell those devices. I asked all technical informations and then requested to be representative for several countries, including India, since my wife is Indian and so I have lot of relatives there.

Company replied that I could become representative of just ONE country, so I choose biggest one: India!

They replied that it is not possible since I am one man and it is Subcontinent. I made my plans that have convinced them that in just 4 years I can cover 1440 Indian cities with distribution centers, and therefore they agreed that they would grant me exclusive representativeship for whole India, if I buy 36 000 units as initial contingent at factory price of 520$ EXW. I argued that this is too great number, but they had their own calculations and would not make it less.

Perhaps in time I would persuade them that even half is enough, but there was much more important problem that I found in technical documentation, and this was that their devices do NOT work on temperature of 40 degrees of Celsius or higher, and in India it is every second day or even more often.

I got idea how to solve this at once and offered to solve this problem for this company, but not for free. They acknowledged problem but refused to pay for solution, perhaps thinking that if their Engineers have constructed devices, they would be able to solve problem also.

That was wrong thinking, as problem was in cooling system and its refrigeration gas, and no amount of tinkering can change its physical characteristics. Even multi stage cooling would not help, as always last stage should be cooled by surrounding air, which was too warm.

In the meantime, friends of my Indian business partner have become greedy and perhaps together with him decided to bypass me and so one went to factory directly. Since that man bought required contingent, he got representativeship also.

Factory has given him same technical informations as they gave me, but he did not think that it is necessary to read it, or he read it the way You read my posts.

Result? Man lost 36 million US$ and scrapped all units after disgruntled buyers brought them back and asked money and refund of all their expenses......

Factory of course pointed out that such informations were provided to him, so it is not their fault that he disregarded it, and did not wanted to accept devices back.

So You see, that factory engineers were also sure that there is no need to think beforehand about where such devices are needed most and whether they would work in local conditions, and that would be first thing that I would think about: user requirements for normal use........

When it was finished, they found out its limitations, but since that team was from Canada, surely they did not assign importance to temperatures as high as 40° C.

So, specialistic knowledge is good, until it becomes habitual and is unquestionably used, no matter what, since people tend to look on new problem as on simple variation of problems they solved in the past.

I am relatively unspecialized because I am Systems Engineer and I deal mostly in abstractions like function that has to be performed, but I must know at least something about everything, as I must always take into consideration all factors that can influence function performed, or at least I must know where to find required informations or who is specialized in which area, so I can ask what I need to know.

Of course, since each system is different, I have to collect some knowledge about it or study how similar systems, if they exist, work, to find what problems exist and if such problems can be avoided in new system.

Most of the time problems in existing systems were discovered during testing of prototypes, but if they stem from some basic function that was included from start and that cannot be changed without remaking everything, then people think that such problems should be tolerated as remaking it all would be too costly and require time, and neither additional costs nor putting product on the market much later would not make Investors happy, so user get problems together with function required.

I had have negotiations with factory that make contemporary models of Wind power stations, and they were researching for 30+ years how to make better their turbine blades, never thinking to invent completely new turbine, because it was too far from what they were doing for years.... Beside this, they would have to scrap all their tools, molds or whatever they use in production of contemporary models, and those tools did not yet pay themselves, so they would produce inefficient and break prone units rather than to switch to production of something else.

That would in consequence destroy their company when other young companies start producing better and cheaper models.

There is for instance one factory that produce new and better kind of electricity generators and motors. They at once understood that they would sell much more generators (and motors also) if they have whole product where their generators would be included, and since my Windpower Stations are uncomplicated to produce and installation is simple, they are ready to start production as soon as I submit engineering blueprints.

So, this is my position: I need help to make those blueprints by program or by industrial engineer, but either way, it cost money, and money I don't have, so I need investor, or industrial engineer to cooperate with me.

If You would like to cooperate with me, that would be all help I need, provided You would make this engineering blueprints before You start building prototypes, and they should be precise enough for everyone to be able to build installation that would work as expected :-))

Would You help me and cooperate on this project?

Alternatively, if You think You can do it all without making Engineering blueprints, i could sell You one Production License very cheaply, for just 10% of ordinary price, provided I also get 10% of Royalty on every unit selling price in future.

Then You can go and build prototypes as many as You would want and experiment as long as You want...... I could even grant You exclusive License on all units of capacity equal or less than 2/3 MW, if You think smaller models have bigger market, and such licence would be valid for whole World!

You don't even need to pay me full amount (that would be 500 000 Euro) at once, but just 10% of this, 50 000 Euro!

What do You say? This is billion dollar per year business in pure profit, if You can produce enough units to satisfy demand...

Alternatively, You would be able to sell Production Licenses in all other countries, but in this case I would ask 30% of each PL sold and 5% of royalty for me.......

Interested?

If You do not read all I wrote, it is easy to pull things out of context and misunderstand everything.

Back in the 70's the US had a think tank to come up with ideas for a security plan. One of the ideas is to release all information and not hide anything. And I mean all. The thought was bury the USSR with data, spending resources to have them drudge through it to verify and organize it.

As you can seem, it works.

p911