Engineering News

The significant details here are the burying of the dead. No other animal species does this as far as I know. Certainly no other species will bury a member with objects like tools like we do.

I personally don't believe we interbred given the fossil record, but would not be surprised to be wrong about that.

I personally don't believe we interbred given the fossil record, but would not be surprised to be wrong about that.

If you could see some of the critters who pass for homosapiens that I have known over the years you would be certain that there not only was interbreeding but we,in some cases, lost the genetic battle.

Bear in mind most men will sh*g anything that moves and many things that don't I would be surprised if we didn't.
Some men find strong hairy cats women very exciting...
Del

Yes, I think so and the offspring was known as Politicolithic Magnum.

Most of us would try anything at least once.

As closing time approaches, each might find that the other looks pretty good. As Benjamin Franklin once said, in the dark all cats are gray.

I think that it's a distinct possibility. I have a few acquaintances that, after a night of heavy drinking, swear they've awakened laying next to one of their modern day descendants. ;p

Did Neanderthals have sex with modern man?

I was helping my wife today at the university where she teaches, and judging from the the appalling quality of advisees coming in and out of her office, I'd say they still are.

Neanderthals probably weren't the knuckle dragging morons there are often assumed to be. Didn't they have fire and stone tools? Anyone who thinks that such behaviour is unintelligent should try lighting a fire and knapping a flint hand axe.
Del

Del Gato raises a good point here. I might use the term Neanderthal to criticize various bureaucrats and superstitionists, but this might be wrong, and instead a slur on Neanderthals.

It isn't explicitly mentioned that I know of, but Jean Auel's novels (Clan of the Cave Bear, The Valley of Horses, etc.), seem to be based on the idea that an earlier strand of humans had a mental structure of racial memories (and larger brains to accommodate this), versus a later strand whose mental structure was more CPU-oriented rather than static database, and hence more adaptable. (More lean-and-mean, if you prefer.) Will we ever know?

Fire-tending and flint-knapping are fairly sophisticated skills, along with burying one's dead, especially when remembering that this was some 30,000 years ago.

In my country was found graves of Neanderthal people 70 000+ years old, maybe more than 90 000, as is estimated by newest carbon dating methods.

Personally I am sure they are not extinct at all, just have evolved and crossbred with >>modern<< humans. That is (IMHO) source of two kinds of head forms: big and round and smaller and elongated.

Interestingly, I have met man from same place where those old graves in a cave were found, and I remembered him after new reconstructions of look of those Neanderthal people were made using forensic technique that can restore face from skeleton skull, as he was looking exactly like this: protruding eyebrow bones, back slanted forehead, big nose and small chin on massive jaw.......

He was also extremely hairy, much more than this pictures suggest.

So, I am sure they are still here, changed and crossbred, but sometimes there is a throwback to old genetic stock.

So judging from what I know of this man, Neanderthal people were strong but slow, which did not make them less successful hunters because they used stake holes and ambush for catching animals by throwing nets weighed by stones on edges, and they kept existing in woods, while Modern man hunted in savannas using long legs for running after prey. We possibly invented bow and arrows, at least no arrowheads were found in graves here, just lance tips and stone axes.

Unfortunately for Neanderthal people, in conditions of Ice age people should go far and wide to find food, and have to run after it as well, and last ended some 15 000 years ago, and was lasting another 98 000 years, so it match period when they seemingly disappear. But they existed over 200 000 years period while >>modern<< people come out of Africa some 100 000 years ago......

Cave pictures found in Altamira, Spain, and more than 200 caves in Europe was dated some 6 000 years ago (attributed to Cromanyon people) show they were artists bot so were Neanderthals also using ochre to paint bones of dead.

So, certainly we had sex with Neanderthals, and judging from look of some other people I know, with chimpanzees, pavians and other monkeys :-))

Or maybe origins of modern people are more complicated and cannot be traced back to common origin, so surely when they make genome charts of monkeys also, we would know whether we have common origins or have evolved in parallel or modern man is indeed artificially made by God or some space visitors by genetic manipulations, or visitors got too lonely in long journeys trough space :-))

This is one of early reconstructions of >>Man from Krapina<<...

Anyhow, first picture remind me somehow on one famous actor that is playing Texas Ranger in some TV serials, so I would say definitely Neanderthals are still among us :-))

Here are some of latest news:

--------------

For the past few days newspapers the world over have been reporting the discovery in Portugal of the skeleton of a 4-year-old child, dead for 25,000 years. The discoverers, led by Portuguese archaeologist João Zilhão, are making a ground-breaking claim, that the skeleton shows traces of both Neanderthal and modern human ancestry, evidence that modern humans did not simply extinguish the Neanderthals, as many researchers had come to think. Instead the two kinds of human were so alike that in Portugal, at least, they intermingled—and made love—for thousands of years.

-----------------

Now, look at this contemporary person, do You see similarities in look with first picture?

Also, native Australians may also be more closely related to Neanderthals then other modern people, and their life is quite similar to that of Neanderthals, they are hunters and gatherers primarily. Of course in our time many things are already changed everywhere, but I think I have read how they find Stone Age people in Brazil and on some island in Indian ocean, but I did not have seen any pictures of them.....

<...look at this contemporary person...>

Billy Connolly? Oh, no. Probably not....

Hi,

yes certainly they had, as soon as there was an opportunity.

We do not know how tight in protection was the clan and if there have been any chances. But who would hesitate?

Unknown: more Neanderthal men with modern women or vice versa?

Very likely: no fertility as genetic distance is much wider than estimated some years, now first DNA sequenced (from teeth, there protected from decay) states a big difference in genetics.

So may be fertile to produce the first offspring but not in the second generation.

RHABE

Paleolithic inter-species dinner date

So how do you explain dinosaurs? They're not mentioned in the Bible, but the evidence of them is there.

Methinks this "guest" is pulling our proverbial leg. I've offered admin. a $5 plate donation to expose the bugger.

You miss the point........Take da Vinci and put him into one of todays universities.........it is an analogy of the capacity of the human brain which is dependant on information and how it processes that info. I believe the brain and mind of ancient man compared with modern has not changed. The information has.

Had Neanderthal become the dominant homo erectus who knows what he would be capable of....pay off his mortgage on time maybe?

Give it a rest

There's a lot of us here don't know what tomorrow will bring. I happen to know one from this forum who just lost his house and is moving to a trailer. And this after a lifetime of work.

There are others here in the same boat but I don't hear them whining.

I specifically went out of my way to teach my daughter how to whine.

The perfect whine is plaintive, short, and really whinny.

Much of Classic 50s Doo Wap, was perfect in its whininess.

Frank Zappa captured this so perfectly in his great satire record: Ruben & The Jets.

Some did not even recognize that Ruben and the Jets, was Frank Zappa.

The vinyl record weighed about a pound and a half it seemed. There were lines in the songs like "Life just keeps abusing me."

"You didn't try and call me."

My daughter rarely ever whines. Possibly I did right teaching her how since I know some knowledge is sort of useless.

Still I do have to say that I have interest in other peoples problems and am particularly interested in banking practices in other nations.

I'd love to try my hand at currency trading.

Apparently if you bought a bunch of Canadian money a few years ago, it is worth more now, and you could sell it at a profit?

That's reverse psychology and it works! My kids don't whine, smoke, curse or go to church.

If you want to try your hand at trading there's a great online course offered by Forex Trading. Can get addictive. Just have to know when to make your move.

It'd be great for those managers who have to buy commodities for their company. Might not be a bad forum to start here.

Yes they did and I have pix.

There was a fine article in Scientific American about 11 years ago I believe that portrayed 12 humaniods. I am sorry I cannot lay my hands on that magazine issue right now.

As far as whether or not Neaderthals and us had sex or not, well, it is right likely considering some still currently have relationships with sheep, so I hear.

In The Hamlet, there is the story of the man who loved a cow. (William Faulkner)

According to Jared Diamond there is some evidence that sexual selection is a factor within our species that skews simple natural selection in puzzling ways.

Apparently at one point, according to what I remember, the human species of which we are members, was reduced to an estimated population of 200 individuals.

(This is why I tend to recommend we keep a minimum of 200 individuals up there in outerspace.)

There is evidence of human beings eating the Neanderthals, as there is evidence of human beings eating other human beings. Whether that caused their extinction, or their extinction was caused by Ice Age conditions that greatly reduced our population I'd figure the same issues that so greatly reduced us, probably wiped them out, though in this last paragraph I am aware I ought to look at Time lines of weather events, and time of disappearance.

The role of disease could well be more of a factor, than weather.

While tools have been attributed to Neanderthals, and even crows and chimpanzees are known to use sticks, it is only we who are known to create "Art".

According to A New History of Art, by Paul Johnson, Architecture is the first art, and jewelry second. If human beings were simply better homebuilders this would certainly give them an edge in the competition for survival.

P.S. It is not inconceivable that some Neanderthal females were attracted to finer homes and shiny things, and some human men may have prefered females that didn't talk much.

I suspect art came before architecture. I drew pictures before I played with blocks.

But that may just be me.

Del, I share your taste in the burly though mine swings the other gender direction :D

Oh yah, and Jean M. Auel does years of research ad bases a great deal of her story on scientific fact rather than conjecture. She's a worthy read if you don't mind some racy bits about Ayla's love life.

"Did Neanderthals have sex with modern man?"

Not unless somebody has invented the time machine. Do you see anybody alive today that looks like a cross between a Neanderthal and H.G. Wells?

Yes.

Yea my cousin Vinnie

he still carries a club

but the name evolveled

I know believe its called a baseball bat

and in some circles its called the perswaydwer

boss

Did this man on man thing started so long ago?

Given the heterozygocity of this modern world, the proof should be in there, somewhere...

Now that we have home DNA test kits the evidence should be forthcoming.........

I, for one, suspect Australopithiness in my neighbours kid..........

An examination of skull shapes might provide some insight here.

Here is the skull of a chimpanzee, our closest living evolutionary neighbor.

Now here is a skull of homo habilis

Next a skull of Homo Erectus

Here's a Homo Neanderthalensis skull

And finally a Homo Sapien Skull

It's hard to draw conclusions from those photographs of skulls regarding modern man and Neanderthals. Certainly the Neanderthals had a more primative skull shape (less rounded in the back, protruding brow) compared to modern man. I would think if we had bred with the Neanderthals you would see a change in the fossil record in terms of skull shape for Homo Sapiens Sapiens (modern man) (an elongation of the skull) or in the fossil record of the Neaderthals (a rounding of the skull). As far as I know we see neither.

Still, its interesting to see how modern man came about.

Neaderthals certainly were more primative than modern man (at least homo sapiens sapiens from 35 thousand years ago to present)

You should have to have skull of >>Modern Man<< from same era where they coexisted with Neanderthals to be able to compare.

Since brain development is dependent on viable mutations, maybe we are just mutated Neanderthals.....

I studied brain development, which is actually repeated in embryos, and find out that each new brain was added on top of existing one. Starting with Myelen Cephalon which is connected directly to Spinal Cord, Metencephalon or Cerebellum that follows it, Mesencephalon, Diencephalon and finally Telencephalon, they all go in succession, and following is at least twice as big as previous. Based on this I predicted that soon there would be generations with still one more brain on top, Supercephalon, which would in first phases of growth start from backside and make bump some two-three fingers width from forehead. Final result should look like crowns of Pharaohs of old Egypt, and head would look like big egg with pointed end up.

Already I have seen kids and some adults with head form going this way, and perhaps old Pharaohs were imitating >>Gods<< and trying that their heads look like what they have seen someplace else. I cannot explain how else they would put on the head something that on ordinary head could be only unstable and hard to wear with dignity :-))

Brain scientists claim that behind our forehead is part of brain that enable us to think abstractly, and that is what was not so developed in Neanderthals, but then, I read that their brain was bigger and heavier than that of Homo Novus even 1.5 times, and since they had greater skulls, then pictures could be misleading if not put together for direct comparison of some measurements are given to compare.

So maybe they had as big foreheads as we have, and still more capacity for memorizing things which we did not have. But size is less important than way neurons are connected, so maybe we were able to think faster, and that is why we survived and they are not.

Still, it may be that we are just mutated Neanderthals, and that mutation that changed Brain has most certainly has to changed bone structure, first of all in the skull, and that this change reflected on other bones as well in lenght.......

Then one other thing is also important, and this is brain surface, and as this surface has grown it has to warp itself to be able to fit into same 3D space, which is visible even in Cerebellum or >>Small Brain<< situated in the back of our heads.

Also, You have shown just one type of contemporary skull, and this is round type, while there are also skulls elongated from front to back with smaller and more slanted foreheads, just like Neanderthal characteristics.

Therefore, more comparations are in order, before we can draw conclusions.....

Surely DNK analyse can show how close we are to Neanderthals and whether differences could be just mutated or added genes. Even number of Chromosomes can show if we were able to crossbred, as this is practically only real obstacle for viable offspring's.

Much of your post is wrong. I don't have the time to correct it. It doesn't matter anyway because as I said in my post "It's hard to draw conclusions from those photographs of skulls regarding modern man and Neanderthals." which means I agree with your conclusion "Therefore, more comparations are in order, before we can draw conclusions....." even though I disagree with the misconception riddled means by which you reached it.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/changes-in-skull-size-and-shape-shows-time-of-human-neanderthal-split_10028552.html

Dear colleague,

Most of my post are facts, and part are my conclusions, that may seem wrong to You but I have seen proofs they may be right, so that is fine for me.

Therefore, only time would show whose conclusions are right and whose were not.

I studied all I could find about human brain since I wanted to make AI program that would simulate it in computer, that is, to make program that can >>think<< and make logical conclusions. I am also kind of expert for Knowledge databases and Expert systems, Neural Networks and programming and other AI techniques.

You may like them or not, but those are my conclusions, which may be proven wrong, in the end, who knows?

But, just look at picture of skeletons in OP, and You would see that (and this is also fact I collected and mentioned) Neanderthal skull is bigger than that of human, and while arms and legs may be shorter in proportion to the rest of body, actually they were same size as modern humans, and in modern humans we include Bushmans with their 1.25m average height and Masai that could be 2.5m or more, and some still bigger humans that perhaps could be find in Guinness Book of Records :-))

So, until proven, or disproved, one theory is as good as another, right?

I am good at correlating facts, and it seems obvious to me, but then I spent years on it out of hobby, while other people tend to draw conclusions just on few facts, mostly from just one field, where I always try to see problem or object of study from as many different angles as possible, specially if it is a riddle nobody has solved yet :-)) Unfortunately at that time there was no Internet, so my sources of facts were scarce and hard to collect, but now I mostly find proofs for my theories.

Now, there is one example of proof for my theories: Man on the right is (to me) Looking like descendant of Neanderthals, and one on the left is example of new kind of brain in forming, and I have seen still more pronounced characteristics in some people whose pictures unfortunately I don't have to show.......

Here are same two from different angle....

Here is another example of >>New Brain<< man, and this is some Doctor of Forensic Medicine.

Sorry for quality of pictures, they are snapshots from TV and from long ago.

Now, this last man shows pointed backside of skull, which is thought to be Neanderthal characteristic.........

Right man on pictures above is Croatian, and from place where one of oldest finds of Neanderthal bones were found :-))

It seems to me logical conclusion that he is either descendant from Neanderthals that evoluted or were hybridized with New Man type of humans and Neanderthals, keeping some characteristics in process.

As I wrote, I knew man from same place that has had still more slanted forehead, small skull and big nose and jaw with almost no chin, and hairy as a rug.....

He was also spitten image of reconstructed face of neanderthal person made by Forensic Medicine expert artist....

So, it seems quite obvious conclusion to me, Neanderthals are still there among us, changed, of course.........

So you are of the belief that there is a new brain structure currently evolving. Do you have any medical papers to back up your claim? Don't you think doctors might have noticed this evolving trait over the past 100 years?

You have a pet theory base on circumstantial evidence that if you bothered to read a little into the subject you would realize is completely wrong. Your mistaking your ignorance of the subject for a lack of evidence contradicting your pet theory.

You Wrote:"So, until proven, or disproved, one theory is as good as another, right?"

No.

I went there and some facts does not match, as Neanderthals were here for over 200 000 years while >>Modern man<< appeared just 100 000 years ago, and if split occurred 300 000 to 400 000 years back, where were modern people hiding all this time?

But this article gave indirect proof that they could be hybridized, because of common ancestors.....

It also does not disprove or rule out my theories, since mutations did not have stopped, so there is no reason why Neanderthals could not have mutated same way as >>Modern humans<<, just some time later, and it is also quite probable, given common ancestors, and is just matter of time when similar mutation could repeat itself......

Moreover, if they can crossbred, and there seems to be evidence found for this, then some mutations of >>Modern men<< could be passed to offsprings, too.

Opposite is also probable, that some hybrids passed Neanderthal characteristics to >>Modern people<< instead.

As Pictures posted before show :-))

It's possible that Neanderthals bred with Humans, who can say until we examine the genomes?

As for your timeline issue, your dates are wrong, why don't you bother to look them up.

Met Rod Serling once. He had a different skull. It was like his forehead jutted out 5/8s of an inch over his eyes.

Nice guy.

Inca skull, Peru. Explanation; manipulated from birth.

Similar skull from Northern Caucasus region. Explanation: not manipulated.

Both have more brain area than normal human skull. 25% more if I recall.

Wonderful! Caucasian skull is exactly how I imagine next brain shape would look.

Inca skull looks like mutated Neanderthal to me.

Now there was custom of squeezing skulls of children (female only) with bands to get that kind of look, and some even developed a >>waist<< from squeezing.......

Maybe something could be found under >>Gothic skulls<<......

As I wrote, such skulls match helmet crowns of Pharaohs, specially Caucasian one!

Obviously those were not fertile mutants, or were considered too ugly to get married, or bigger brain was useless without education and knowledge to be of use.

Imagine such superbrain in some remote willage, in secluded and arhaic area where one can at best become sheppard........

What a waste!

But random mutations are just that: random and unpredictable.

I wonder why those scientists making such picture do not provide some measurements or at least some referent object so one can better imagine size as compared to average human skull.........

Like this, it seems to me it was double brain skull, in a sense that one is of usuall type and one is >>new<< as I predicted it, because in reality we have several brains in our skull allready, about 5 of them.......

Those skull shapes, both of them, were produced by skull binding.

Here is a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_flattening

I suspected as such.

Two were found at the Serpent Mounds in Ontario. The then archaeologist/professor was in dire need to make a sensation out of them. He later 'discovered' Egyptian artifacts in Arizona. Both discoveries cost the fellow his job though he did manage to parent a large following of 'know nothing/understand everything' believers with many book sales to fill his bank account.

The skulls he found were apparently looted from Mexico and placed. The altar has yet to be found.

It's an odd practice that seems to have been widespread and for the life of me I don't know why. Maybe someday we'll learn that it has some sort of effect, nothing big, maybe a minor improvement in aptitude for art or something, who knows?

Jesuit account, 17th C: The Aoutaouais of the Ottawa River valley were sought after by many Amerindian tribes. Mainly because theirs was a sloping forehead which signified great beauty. The tribe was unable to hunt and was dependant on the others to supply them with food. In turn they traded their daughters and sons and concentrated on looking beautifull. A mark of great beauty was curly hair.

I think this might be one of the few instances where genetic profiling was practised.

Paul Kane actually painted one of these women. I can't find it online.

What cave art is attributed to any other creature, other than us?

I have heard of Apes or Baboons? that make paintings.

Still they do not say: Monkey See Monkey Do, for no reason, and I discount the art for lack of realism, and suspect the compulsion is not inherent.

The shape of the skull is certainly not as important at all, as the brain inside it.

Skull shape is much less important than brain shape.

Far as I know, all modern homo sapiens regardless of physical features, black, white, asian, european, or whatever, share the same brain, no matter the vessel.

I wonder of course if I've got some caveman blood, but see it sort of like how nearly all passenger cars have essentially the same shape, since that shape is the most aerodynamically efficient for a car.

Natural Selection would favor the bipedal with hands as long as it had a brain capable of noting the past, and creating the future, based on past experiences.

The last guy in line gets eaten by the Tiger, for instance.

I knew a soldier once who felt guilty about working always to get to the middle of a marching crowd of soldiers since everybody in the point, or at the back, or on the sides of him, typically got shot first.

Does the racehorse change the world, and then the mule keep it going?

Is a shark smarter than a Dolphin?

To grasp all of the factors I would study bugs, then fish, then mammals, and find the commons.

It is of interest that while we suspect that evolution caused creatures to move and then build on land, we do not see creatures move from land to the sea.

Human Beings are unique in that it is possible for them to live in the most perfectly inhospitable environments.

While many factors and grace brought us about, skull shape is of little concern.

You cant see animals going from land and into sea? There are : Seals, Sea Lions, Sea Elephants, and those are crossed back halfway. Dolphins and Whales were once four legged animals living on the ground........

In regard to shape of skull and brain inside, it is very much connected, since (as far as modern science has found out) brain has specialized areas, and it is natural to extrapolate that bigger skull in certain places reflect greater capacity for some functions, such as memory capacity, abilities for abstract thinking and so on.

Hi,

you are right,many mammals moved back to the sea.

Include the Portuguese fishing/diving dog and the sheep on the coast of Ireland: both can make a living from seafood.

Include the sea-turtles that have were peculiar structures for protection, as moving from land to sea and back to land and back to the sea and on land a protective back evolved, in the sea this vanished to nearly nothing, and back on land the old structure was not re-developed but a new one grew atop.

We humans too lived at the sea- or lake-side at a most important step towards intelligence!

Our upright walking is easily explainable with a first period of living somewhere near a coast. This may have happened some 7 Myears ago. See the various books from Elaine Morgan.

Then there was a period on land (Olduvai and nearby). And then a second period at the lake-shores of one of the big African lakes (that likely had a connection to the ocean for some time). See the book fro Steven Cunnane: Survival of the fattest.

The result was a big skull nearly 10% more in brain volume than we have today! We face the problem of longterm degeneration! See Jared Diamond: The rise and the fall of the third chimpanzee!

RHABE

What are You saying, that prehistoric people stored fat in their heads :-))?

* Just joking!

Hi,

joke is ok, but reality is necessary to know: brain-cells as nerve cells are composed of fat and protein!

If not the right and enough (omega3) fats at development this will impair brain quality.

As much good fat as is needed in pre and post-natal brain development can be gathered only in environments at sea or big lake-sides. Have a look into the book from S.Cunnane or see his website - valuable insights about what to do to learn from real human evolution and to adopt our life to near optimum conditions.!

RHABE

Hi,

You are right, but I read someplace that greatest source of proteins and vitamins were thermite nests that were aboundant in prehistoric times, specially in Africa from where Modern Man is supposedly comming.....

Unfortunately they do not exist in my country at all........

I was forced to drink smelly fish oil in childhood as doctor reccomended this for Rahitis prevention :-((

I appreciate the correction.

Actually I have read The Third Chimpanzee, and have great respect for Jared Diamond.

I must have forgotten, or missed certain instances when evolution returned some creatures to the seas.

So in this area of the discussion, for me the value is that I have been Refreshed!

I am Refreshed My Brothers, Refreshed I say!

I believe our sceptisim comes from Phrenology as discredited.

We all have our pet theories.

Ongoing evolution is likely. We see extinctions so while that exists as an evolutionary dead end, what lives will be evolving.

The role of plastics in the water in the evolution of reptiles may be interesting as accelerated events.

In the scheme of things we do not normally expect of a sudden great leaps.

I for one, do not think Neanderthals live among us.

Was Einstein's brain bigger? Was Einstein's skull a perfect skull shape? Does everybody with a skull shape, or the same hat size possess the intelligence of Einstein?

What are the Minor issues, and what are the Major issues?

Skull shape, while it may have some evidence of something, what that is would appear as of minor utility since we are all humans now.

I myself admit to having a "pet theory", but so far must also admit that there is strong evidence in physics, that my own pet theory is not possible.

(Some scientist has claimed to freeze to a stop, light, which apparently has positive implications as far as my coherence problem for my holographs on photons vision, but even I am skeptical of the reports.)

William Faulkner somehow makes out of Absolam Absolam the point that it is a tragedy of the human experience to live according to incorrect ideals.

Every now and then I have had to get a divorce from an idea.

Sometimes all day I'm wondering what idea to divorce, and what idea to marry. Oh the truth comes out! Some ideas are flirts.

I'm of the opinion that life imitates art. Skull shape in this thread seems to be indicative of cave cosmopolitanism.

No. If skull binding would be cause, then size of brain would remain same. That also do not explain one skull with brain of triple size but different skull shape.

Try search >>alien skulls<< http://www.ufodigest.com/skulls.html

Now, can You say this was done by binding skull?

It has 5 liters (5 000 cm3) brain capacity, while modern man average is 1.5 liters!

Beside, bandaging would surely go around forehead, and foreheads are looking normal to me.......

But if You try to imagine first how normal skull would look, then you can see that forehead, area around ears and lower backside are identical to normal skull, and then you can see second brain starting from backside and >>riding<< on top of ordinary brain.

I don't have picture, bit one of our Ministers of Finances were having similar head, but bump on his head is round, not pointed, and his forehead is ball like, so he looks definitively alien (like this biggest skull, bit with just one bump in the middle), and surely that was not product of head bandaging :-)) He is not tall, but head is definitively 1.5 size bigger than ordinary.

Even my father had big head, also at least 1.5 times greater than normal, but his was completely round, no bumps at all.

Maybe those skulls produced by binding were attempts to look like God like beings, or even those were childs destined to be priests of some religion worshiping beings with such skulls.......

I read they find a plate in South America that is 70 million years old, and on it pictures of beings with large heads of same shape like ones found in museums there (see link).

On one page I have found pictures of heads from two pharaohs, Tutmosis III and another, shoving also elongated backs of heads, and one wall carving from old Egypt shoving Pharaoh family where all have such heads elongated on the back.

Another question is how it happen that such skulls were found in so distant places and have many similarities? How could >>fashion<< of head bandaging be same in South America, Kavkaz and Nubia, China.........

"Even my father had big head, also at least 1.5 times greater than normal, but his was completely round, no bumps at all."

"I'm having a spiritual experience with the spin dry." - Zippy the Pinhead.

I was forced by the visiting possum to study brains.

Raccoons and possums are about the same size, but raccoons do have bigger brains, and are smarter.

I believe a raccoon has a 36 bean brain, while a possum has a 70 beansized brain.

I do not discount the size of the brain of the animal entirely.

However the functioning departments of the brain are more important once the brain has reached an optimum size.

Obviously there is something wrong with big brains that wear big hats with no brims in hot sunny places. Where are their sunglasses? I must see their eyeballs.

How many beans make a human brain anyway?

I shall post picture of my father as soon as this scanner would be operational, and then You would understand. (I hope)

I agree that size alone is not indication of higher abilities, but if parts of brain with scientifically established functions is hypertrophied, then it should mean something, I would say, but this is just my opinion, mind you!

My father was one of over average intelligent persons, just slowly thinking for some reason, and mother who compared to him had half smaller head were speaking 16 languages (and reading and writing), which I take as indirect indication of fast thinking. I am somewhat in the middle of them two :-)), or better say positive mix.

To anticipate questions, no, nobody bandaged my head :-))

Anyhow, how do You know that possum is not of higher spirituality so he meditate much more than racoon? Apearances may be deceiving, you know.......

If that possum has racial memory, then he knows all that many generations before him has learned, so then for him there is nothing new in the world, quite boring, in fact:-((

If so, what for he would run around and poke nose everywhere like racoons do?

Possums live only about two years. A startlingly short existence for an animal of its size.

I hypothesize that Homo Sapien didn't interbreed with Neanderthal until the invention of the paper bag.

Also, looking at your picture, I detect some of the facial features indicative of fetal alcohol syndrome. Tell me, did your mother drink?

Slovenians, and Croats, drinking?

The HELL you say...

No, but she survived heavy case of tuberculosis........

Compared to other Croats and drinking norms of her time, she was certainly nonalcoholic, or as close to be one as possible, where even doctors recommended one two glasses of dark red vine at lunch for strengthening of blood.......

But then how can I tell what she did when pregnant with me?

But I was ordered to drink beer by doctor, and I hated its bitter taste.........

So maybe it is that what You seems to read from my face :-))

Paper bag? They have had animal skins bags!

On the other hand, that may have not made much difference, what do You think?

Sorry. Most of that post was based on common American (English) jokes (old and almost part of the culture). I can understand if you didn't get 'em. I don't think I'd get a Croat joke no matter how old it was.

Assuming this is your father who has a brain 1.5 times normal. It looks a little pointed to me, so his face must be 2 times normal!

As I promised, here is picture of my father :-))

If You don't get how big his head was, just look at handles of his glasses and proportions of glasses to head size........

What are you trying to prove? Your father may have had a large head, however, it really means nothing in regard to intelligence. I'm sure the ventricles in your father's brain are rather large. Also, there are at least 25 known medical conditions (some more benign than others) that cause large head size.

One other thing, the brain size of dolphins is about 1.5 times larger than a human's. And a cursory look at a dolphin's brain looks no less complex than ours.

Kris did it! I wasn't even in the room!

When I went to high school many moons ago, there was a guy from Butler, PA who threw shot put.

If you laid eyes on his brow ridge, you would swear you were looking at a Neanderthal skull.

I am of Croat descent myself, and my skull comes to a pronounced point at the back of my head. It is not round like the photos of most "textbook" skulls.

Anyone have a comment on that?

"Men will shtup anything, even mud."

-Lenny Bruce