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The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

Posted April 07, 2011 2:20 PM by Roger Pink

Introduction

"Man is a being in search of meaning" - Plato

Socrates was a short, ugly, and generally annoying man who lived in Athens from 470 BC to 399 BC. He spent the first half of his life as a sculptor, which made sense since he was the son of a sculptor. Legend has it that he became a philosopher sometime after age 40 when the Oracle at Delphi indicated he was the wisest man in the world. The news of this surprised Socrates who, though educated in literature, music, and rhetoric, felt strongly that he wasn't very wise at all. It was only after he started interrogating the greatest thinkers of Athens that he came to realize that nobody really knew the things they supposed they did. This thus verified the oracle since he seemed to be the only person aware of the fact that nobody (including himself) seemed to truly know anything, which made him the wisest person in the world.

Socrates escaped execution a few times during his life. Finally, as an old man of roughly 70, he was found guilty of corrupting the youth of Athens and not believing in the gods of the state and was executed by being forced to drink poison (hemlock). When asked to flee by his followers, he responded that no true philosopher feared death and besides, where ever he ended up he would probably annoy them so much that it would lead to the same result (Crito).

It is popular to portray Socrates' trial and punishments as unjust, and there were a lot of politics at work in the trial and sentencing. Still, it is worth noting that twice previous to the trial there had been overthrows of Athens democratic government by students of Socrates (Alcibiades and later Critias). It's not surprising that his students would try to overthrow democracy since Socrates was a strong critic of it and said it made "Equals of everyone, including unequals".

What we know of Socrates today comes from his student Plato, the historian Xenophon, and the playwright Aristophanes. The first two exalt Socrates in Euthyphro, Phaedo, Sophist, and many other works; and the last satirized him in the play "Clouds" and briefly describes him as an instigator of sedition in "Birds." Socrates himself wrote nothing as far as we know. Thus the specific ideas of Socrates and those of Plato are hard to separate, since Socrates spoke but didn't write and Plato says he wrote only what Socrates spoke. Rather than worry about what was said by whom, lets combine the two and treat them as one person and examine their contributions to epistemology relevant to our discussions.

Theory of Forms - The Epistemology of Socrates as Expressed by Plato

The epistemology of Socrates (and Plato) is defined by the theory of Forms. The theory of forms essentially states that the objects of the world we perceive empirically (through our senses) are only imperfect aspects of more complete, idealized "Forms." The famous shadow on the walls of a cave story from The Republic does a good job of explaining this idea of "Forms;" here is the Wikipedia summary of the allegory:

In the dialogue, Socrates describes a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.

The Forms are essentially abstract concepts that were more complete than the aspects of them that are perceived in the real world. Try thinking of it this way:

Imagine you were tasked with determining whether or not an object placed in front of you was a dog. Chances are you'd feel fairly confident that you'd recognize a dog if you saw one standing in front of you and the task wouldn't be too difficult.

Now imagine someone else is tasked with determining whether or not an object placed in front of them is a dog, except they have no idea what a dog is. You are allowed to explain to them what a dog is, but then must leave them to complete their task. Now the task is much more difficult.

We all think we know what a dog is, but when pressed to describe one to someone who has never seen one, it becomes difficult due to the variety of characteristics of dogs. This is a classic characteristic of the Socratic Dialogues. In these Dialogues, Socrates is constantly asking the person he's interacting with to define something and refine that definition. For Socrates, part of the problem was that people took for granted they knew what an object, virtue, emotion, etc. (dog) was, but when pressed to describe one would often fail miserably (since describing one is much harder than it sounds).

The fact that we recognized whether or not it was a dog standing in front of us was evidence to Socrates that we possessed an innate understanding that was deeper than the objects we came across in the real world. Socrates believed that there is a "Form" that was "dog" that we knew inherently so that when a dog was placed in front of us, we recognized it as such. This was also true for beauty, courage, table, fire, house, anger, etc. What we encountered in the real world were not these Forms themselves, but rather a shadow of these Forms (or if you like the book Flatland, a projection). Socrates felt that since the world we live in is filled only with shadows of the Forms, Forms themselves couldn't be fully appreciated (understood) by the senses. One must resort to rational thought (reasoning) to understand the Forms.

Socrates (and Plato) believed these idealized concepts (Forms) couldn't be learned, but rather had to be remembered. This is completely consistent with the theory of Forms, but may strike us in the modern world as strange. Basically Socrates reasoning was that all Earthly things are imperfect shadows of perfect Forms corresponding to those things. All varieties, shapes, and sizes of dogs were but imperfect shadows of the idealized Form "Dog." All varieties of courage were but imperfect shadows of the Form "Courage." Socrates thus believed that all of us were just imperfect shadows of the Forms of "Ourselves." The Forms of "Ourselves," being ideal and perfect, could perceive the Forms of all other things (Courage, Dogs, Beauty, etc.). Thus in order to understand the Forms of other things, we must somehow access that knowledge we forgot (lost) when we were projected from our perfect Form of "Ourselves" to that flawed shadow which inhabits the real world. Socrates believed rational thought (reasoning) allowed us to remember the things we forgot. Naturally, based on this way of looking at things, Socrates believed any outside stimulus was unimportant since when one used rational thought to discover Forms, one was remembering, not learning.

This link has an example of Socrates approach.

I have used the term "shadows" above in my explanation, but that is just a metaphor. A more accurate description of what Socrates believed would be Perfect Ideals (Forms) and that which exists in reality (Shadows). To summarize, Socrates believed there were perfect ideals (Forms) that corresponded to those imperfect or incomplete things that we come across in the real world (shadows). Socrates believed that we "ourselves" were no exception, and there existed an ideal version (Form) of "Ourselves" that knew the idealized versions (Forms) of everything else. Thus to understand the ideal version of everything else, we needed only remember that which we forgot when we were projected into the real world. This remembering was achieved with rational thought.

Consequences of the Theory of Forms to Epistemology

First and foremost, Socrates believed that absolute truths existed (Forms). He believed that empirical data were incomplete and distorted aspects of these absolute truths were thus irrelevant. The absolute truths (Forms) could only be learned through reasoning.

Socrates believed that Forms could have no self-contradiction. For example, if you say "all dogs are large" and then acknowledge "some dogs are small" then your original definition is wrong. Socrates consequently developed a method for disproving misconceptions through contradiction. The misconception is stated as a premise. Other short premises that are easily agreed upon are presented. Through a series of logical steps, a contradiction emerges that disproves the original misconception. This created a process of elimination by which one could move closer to the absolute truths (Forms) being examined.

"If particulars are to have meaning, there must be universals" - Plato

The next point is profound and it is hard to determine whether it came from Socrates or Plato. Basically it says "The whole of everything has a corresponding Form." What that means is that it is not enough that a definition be consistent with respect to a particular Form; it must be consistent with respect to all Forms since all Forms correspond to a single Form "the Universe." There can be no contradictions in general. A proof need only be proven incorrect once to be incorrect. This is a fundamental tenet of mathematics and science today.


In Part 3 we will see examine how Aristotle took the theory of forms and modified it in such a way as to create a foundation on which modern thinking was built. Link to Part 1.

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#1

Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/08/2011 1:44 AM

Thanks Roger. I think it is important to widen our focus and explore these subtle notions that affect our thinking, since it is not always obvious the manner or degree by which they do.

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#2

Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/08/2011 2:20 AM

" There can be no contradictions in general. A proof need only be proven incorrect once to be incorrect."

This would seem to be a theoretical basis of the Scientific Method as I understand it, but it would appear to me that it contains contradictions in and of itself. For Example, for many centuries, Newtonian Mechanics was considered the fundamental theory explaining how the Universe was put together and functioned. Along come Einstein, Rutherford, Dirac, and any number of other, equally venerated mavens that prove that not all things adhere to the rules established by experimentation over the centuries that encompassed the Newtonian model. We have contradiction, but does this make Newtonian Mechanics incorrect? There are still many of us that get along quite nicely relying on the Newtonian model.

We see similar trends within the current Cosmological Model. It seems each image brought to us from further back in time by the latest technology present surprises (i.e., large galaxies apparently existing much earlier than the current model would predict). Does this apparent "contradiction" necessarily "disprove" the Cosmological Model? Or is it an indication that the model is incomplete? The natural tendancy is to tweak the model, not discard it completely...

Sort of like basing one's definition of "dog" on a mastiff, only having to modify it when presented with a Mexican Hairless as a contradiction to the definition. It does not necessarily indicate that the original definition was "wrong"; merely incomplete...

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#3
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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/08/2011 3:08 AM

Hi CW (can I call you CW?),

Let's look at Newtonian Physics and Relativity. One of the important aspects of relativity is that it doesn't contradict Newtonian Physics at low velocities (and low gravitation). This was essential for it's acceptance. In other words, it didn't contradict a long established theory, it actually just built upon it.

In the same way quantum mechanics becomes Newtonian Physics as you get larger than the quantum scale. It to didn't contradict Newton's Physics, but rather added to it.

Of course your right though, it was contradictions that made us realize Newtonian Physics had to be revised.

When contradictions emerged in Newtonian Physics (for instance in the models of atoms where the electrons spriraled into the nucleus, a result we knew didn't occur in the real world), scientists realized that a more comprehensive theory was needed.

I like your wording better than mine when you said:

"Does this apparent "contradiction" necessarily "disprove" the Cosmological Model? Or is it an indication that the model is incomplete?"

Certainly I agree that an emergent contradiction cannot disprove a model, but enough of them can, or at the very least disprove an aspect of that model (thus the adjustment to newtonian physics at high speeds (special relativity).

I agree that when we see things like faster expansion of the universe than expected (dark energy) or faster rotation of galaxies than expected (dark matter), it seems like contradictions to general relativity and an indication we as scientists need to expand that theory. The electron spiraling into the atom was a contradiction that gave rise to quantum mechanics. The recent measurement of the radius of a proton being smaller than expected is a contradiction to QED (they're checking their math as we speak).

I think the significant contribution of Socrates and Plato, and to some extent the Pre-Socratics, is this idea that when we see a contradiction it means we need to revise our theory. That concept alone isn't self evident (though it seems instinctual). In other words, in an alternative universe where there isn't holism perhaps seeing a contradiction doesn't necessarily mean anything, but in our universe it means something isn't right (either our math, premise, model, approximation, etc.)

The most obvious place I see this holistic rule of "No Contradictions Ever" is in math. If you can derive something using trigonometry, then you better be able to derive it also through taylor expansions, or geometry, or whatever. In other words if two things are equal, than they are equal. It's never "in trig they are equal, but in taylor expansions they are not". In fact, if we were to get such a result we would quickly assume we've made a mistake in our math, we would never assume we'd found an exception to the rule. There is something remarkable about that. It seems that self-consistency is a prerequisite to logic, and it's a good thing, because without it there would be no way to discern anything as far as I can tell.

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/11/2011 3:13 AM

The most obvious place I see this holistic rule of "No Contradictions Ever" is in math.

Indeed. We must separate the math world from the world of physics, as the latter works with models, which are "shadows" of something deeper we haven't yet completely grasped.

Unless we find the "equation of the universe" we are doomed to compromise with incomplete and constantly revised theories... and I doubt that we will ever find that magic equation, as we will sooner or later hit the wall describer by Goedel, or theologically speaking, we will eventually fail to completely understand God's mind.

By the way, Life, Universe and Everything is so complicated that even if we somehow get to know the Answer (is it 42 maybe?) I doubt we could grasp the Question at the same time. Either the Answer or the Question has to be infinite and unconceivable...

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#10
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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/11/2011 9:39 AM

Interesting discussion. Truth is absolute. The shadows on the cave wall could only be perceived by sight. My dog is real. I can see, feel, hear and smell him. (I could also taste him if I was so inclined). I could describe him but your understanding would be limited by what you have experianced about dogs. If I could show him to you and you could feel, hear, and smell him you would have a greater understanding of my dog. If you saw how he responds to the sound of my car in the driveway and obeys my voice you would understand that he is my dog.

If we could completely understand God, God would cease to exist because by definition God has to be beyond us and superior to us. What we know about God is only what He has revealed to us.

To the one who says we don't exist, life is but a shadow. I would ask "Who is making that statement?"

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/11/2011 11:57 AM

Excellent points.

My only suggestion is that we should be careful because the "shadows on the wall" is just a metaphor, and it does not suggest we don't exist. It merely suggests that given the limitations imposed by existence in general, we don't perceive everything we encounter in full completeness.

I like the flat world metaphor for visualizing this. Imagine you were a two dimensional being, living in a two dimensional space (flatland). Now imagine a cylinder, circle side down was sitting on your two dimensional space. Since you are confined to the two dimensional plane, the only thing through observation you can conceive is a circle (the part of the cylinder that is touching your two dimensional plane. Now imagine the cylinder laying on it's side on your two dimensional plane. Now the only thing you observe is a finite line. From your two dimensional point of view, a circle and a line appear to be two different things, but from our three dimensional view we understand them to be both properties of a plane tangent to a cylinder. Conic sections are a similar example.

Thus in the example above, what you perceive as a is only a partial aspect of what exists, made partial by the characteristic of your existence (2 dimensions). This is analogous to what Socrates was suggesting. He wasn't saying that reality wasn't real, he was saying that it was imperfect and only part of the story and one needed to use rationalization to get the complete story. Furthermore, Socrates suggests that your senses could even mislead you. After all, a circle seems much different than a line, only through rational thought could a 2 dimensional being conceive them to be two aspects of the same thing. Thus Socrates suggests that only through rationalization alone could truth be reached (the Form) and empiricism should be ignored.

To be clear, this is what Socrates believed, not necessarily what I believed. I my next entry I'll discuss how Aristotle modified this belief.

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/11/2011 12:15 PM

An interesting thought experiment- suppose your "flatland" is actually a Mobias strip surface, and the cylinder intersects both loops of the plane. Your cylinder now would be perceived as four distinct circles in distinct regions of the world by your flatlander...With no direct means of connecting each instance with the others to determine that they are in fact the result of a single phenomenon...

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/11/2011 12:25 PM

That's an interesting thought. (Have we discovered the answer to quantum entanglement? ;)

One could imagine however that some clever flatlander named Euler or Einstein could rationalize such an explanation after contemplating those poor souls that were forced to live in line-land (one dimension) and extrapolating what may lay beyond his very appropriate and comfortable two dimensional space.

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#4

Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/09/2011 3:41 AM

InThe TV comedy series 'Blackadder'.
Baldric and Blackadder are frantically re-writing Dr Johnson's dictionary which Baldrick has inadvertantly burned.
Baldrick's entry for 'Dog' reads 'Not a cat'
Del

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/09/2011 10:50 AM

:)

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#6

Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/10/2011 12:47 AM

It has been pointed out to me that my link referencing Socrates' position on democracy is perhaps a questionable source. I agree entirely. While writing this blog I had about 20 different websites I was juggling and the link I provide as a reference was not the one I intended to use. Unfortunately as it is several days since I wrote this I can't find the specific link that I wanted to reference there (though I can remember what it looked like, not that that is doing me any good), so I'm in a bind.

I think the best course of action for me at this time is to suggest the Politics section of the Wikipedia entry for Socrates. This pretty much covers it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

Sorry about the mistake. I will be updated the blog with the corrected link. I also recommend anyone interested in Socrates' views of democracy to read Plato's The Republic.

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/10/2011 12:22 PM

Plato in the "Republic" most definitely limits participation in his "ideal" government to an elite class, which did NOT include all educated members of society (engineers, doctors, and other "artisans" of too specific an educational background were excluded). His distrust of the "uneducated masses" and popular democracy is quite clearly set out in the original (well, OK, in the popular translations of the original- I don't read Greek).

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Re: The Scientific Method – Part II (Origin Story: Socrates and Plato)

04/10/2011 12:32 PM

Yes, I completely agree. He also admired Sparta, which was a government run by a pair of kings (and aristocrats), probably because of Sparta's effectiveness against Athens in the Peloponnesian War. Personally I don't admire his taste in governments, but what he believed is what he believed.

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