HVAC Blog

Perhaps amputation of an appendage guys hold dear to them?

That is one of the most ignorant things I have heard you say.

Please elaborate on the enrichment of our society when such a penalty is handed down. What sort of rehabilitation would you expect from the sentence being carried out. What penalty is in place today for stealing an AC unit when it is not hot outside?

And, what if the thief is a woman?

Shot on the spot works for me. As long as the punishment is of little deterrent, this type of thing will continue. And Texas is one place where you won't be criminalized for protecting yourself and your property.

Maybe, but the majority of the problem would go away if/when the economy returns to a more normal pace and unemployment drops.

You could call for tougher sentences (not that we have a lot of vacancies in the prison system) and that may help some, but it is already harder to catch these thieves because many police departments are running lean with the lower city budgets.

Recycle shops can help when they spot suspicious activities and watchful neighbors can help, too.

The problem is systemic and we have it here, too. I don't think increasing penalties only during heat waves is useful, just another weak point to be exploited by defense attorneys.

A year or so ago, I received one of many humorous e-mails from one of my many friends who find and distribute them. It came in the aftermath of one of the severe weather events, a tornado I believe, that struck the nation's mid-section and there was a lot of looting in some of the towns that were worst-hit. It included a photograph of some stereotypical rednecks in flannel shirts holding beers, rifles, and shotguns, along with a large sign that proclaimed "We drink beer and shoot looters!"

As one might expect, there was no looting reported in their community.

It seems to me that a small explosive device, set to detonate some period after an air-conditioning unit is removed from its moorings, would soon become news that would deter thieves from that endeavor. Maybe Lyn is right and they don't have sense enough to be fearful of that eventuality.

Here in New Mexico, there have been news reports of thieves entering electric substations with bolt-cutters to remove live cables from transformers and other sub-station components. In most cases that activity has resulted in severely incinerated human remains, but they still try it anyway.

Your bomb is one rather stupid solution as well as being illegal.

More likely the owner would end up being the one in jail.

Exactly, and there are cases to prove it.

Yes to the topic question. I recommend that state lawmakers define additional categories of felony assault, theft or vandalism which threatens or creates great bodily harm. This category would involve removal, unauthorized deactivation or damaging of climate control equipment and it's energy sources and distribution components in any building with human occupants or intended for prolonged occupation by humans (periods in excess or 2 hours). An instructional warning sign on outdoor condensers/evaporators might not prevent all thefts but it would probably deter a lot of the simple sober thieves.

Ed Weldon

the steeling of A/C units must be a USA thing, here in the UK we get numbnuts stealing copper cable off the railroads. I guess we will swap at some point... history dictates it!

However in line with the crime and the punishment, the release of refrigerant into the atmosphere not only comes with its immediate dangers to the uneducated person.. sorry, thief that is stealing the A/C unit, but the effect the release on the ozone layer and the atmosphere in general, and the Montreal Protocol deals with this adequately.

I'll not bore you by quoting or pasting excerpts... just put Montreal Protocol into Wikipedia.

I seem to remember from a A/C course I did years ago, that if refrigerant is released then the person can face very large fines and a long term imprisonment.

Every new Aircon unit comes together with a sentry gun?

A theft is a theft, period. There are laws to punish those who steal. Use those laws to the maximum, and stop coming up with novel "add-ons" for particular cases.

There are those in my state that will, each time gas prices rise quickly, call for special laws to take away the driver licenses of those who "pump and dash". What does stealing have to do with driving? Use the existing laws. We don't take away the shoes of a pedestrian who steals. Similarly, why should stealing an AC unit be less a crime in cooler seasons? Yes, the home is deprived of AC, as it equally would if power was knocked out or a number of other calamities.

But if you force them to pay full restitution for the damages as a condition of the sentencing....I.E. before it officially ends and they can consider it completed. Like if they refuse to pay it, it can be considered a probation violation and they can be sent back. And it could be considered a normal part of sentancing. That would also be benificial to keeping insurance rates down as it would be a recoverable payout.

Its a far differnt thing that swiping a candy bar, or scrap off a pile behind someones shed.

OK, remedies that might involve the criminal justice system don't seem to offer good workable solutions if I'm catching the drift of this thread correctly. Making the cooling lines out of aluminum won't help the people who have copper fitter A/C systems. So let's work on the theft deterrent angle. Locking systems and alarm systems are what I'm talking about.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that the thieves are bringing some heavy duty cutting equipment to this party in order to cut the electrical and refrigerant lines. So plain padlocks won't work well. You could try alarms; but they would need backup batteries or wires that can be cut. Alarms have a way of producing signals that nobody pays attention to. But there still might be some clever reliable way to make that work. I can think of several.

For the tamperproof part there has been a lot of creativity put into bike locks over the years. The other one that comes to mind is familiar to anyone who has touched the construction industry in the USA, the locking system on Knaack steel storage boxes.

As to the immovable object part the HVAC industry in recent years has produced a nice cost reduction for installation of residential size condensers. They used to use concrete pads. Now they use plastic sub bases that just sit on the ground. Perfect for a thief.

There's still an immovable object. The ground or structure under the condenser. How many quick, cheap, irreversible ideas can you come up with to provide a hard to break locking connection to the ground under or around an outside condenser? It has to be simple and low cost enough so an HVAC installer or a security service can get a customer to pay the price. There may be some money making, possibly patentable, solutions waiting for a creative entrepreneur to find them. There may even be a business model there.

Ed Weldon

Compressors designed with a structuraly base that like some floor safes can be anchored from the inside via a hardened anchor bolt into the slab that is secured via a padlock to the base of the unit ( it can be removed and allows for the possibility they have a ratchet set and extensions. Not usually enough space for bolt cutters to pop the lock....and might discourage the less determined theives, or a auger type anchor for those without a slab.

Cost should be minimal on newer units.....older ones MIGHT be possible to retrofit to a lower level of security.

Just have insurance - anyone that dies from the lack of AC was on their last legs anyway.

I feel sad when I read about heat waves in the US or Europe killing people. It is normally not in Texas, Arizona or another hot state but in normally cooler areas. If people were not in such poor physical condition it would only be an inconvenience.

When I was working in many countries around the world I saw numerous places where 50°C was not uncommon. Did the natives die off every summer? No!

True....but remember....some buildings are designed with proper ventilation and in such a way, you coudl actually maintaine a decent level of comfort even without A/C. I used to live in such a place once. Windows on 3 sides, old style functional shutters and VERY high ceilings. As hot as it got outside in the worst part of august, proper use of shutters and open windows kept it comfortible all be a couple days a year. And it DID get quite hot and humid.

A lot of appartments with low ceilings and windows on only one side that didn't allow cross flow ventilation got positively unbearible many, many days in the same town.

Southern Europe actually is where this was and A/C back then was very rare while is was very common here. The building I was in was 80 years old....and the new ones with low ceilings were almost uninhabitible by my American standards.

Certain structural features are important for living without A/C where others almost mandate its use.

Yup, I live in Florida and AC has only been around less than 100 years. Before that it is said that people actually lived without it!

Imagine that?

Nope wont work, we tried that even to the point of installing a 6" flat washer inside the bottom of the condensing units we have installed and anchored to the slab with 1/2 inch anchors. They just pulled harder and ripped the bottom off.

The worst one I have seen was in a building that a property manager asked us to review and up grade for them to lease. 50,000 sq' lab to be converted to an office space. It was vacant for a year with a large warehouse. The thieves moved into the back. All the copper water lines were gone. The nitrogen lines for the lab were gone. The roof top circ pumps were hanging on the skids since all of the copper line to the AHU's was gone. Dx and reheat coils in the units gone, condenser coils gone. Drain lines gone.

Went back down into the lab and noticed the stainless switch plates were sucked into the gang boxes. The thieves tied a cable on to the wires coming back to the main panels and MCC panels and wenched the wires out of the conduit pulling the switches and plates into the gang boxes.

We told the landlord and property manager to just call the insurance company and call the building a total loss and start new.

They even cut the main feed to the building and stole the transformer that was foot mounted in the electrical room.

Moral of the story if they want it they will take it! The laws mean nothing they are thieves and will do the time come back out and do it again. I say put them into the trades so they have to then chase the guys stealing the equipment and get new units on line for the home owners all the time sweating their buts off an actually having to go to work.

Alarm systems can be a wonderful thing

Very true however the building was vacant and powered down and the thieves cut the main entering the building do do their dirty work.

Any alarm system worth having has a battery backup for just that purpose.

Yep and they probably new that.

Then tough luck to the owner - they were not smart enough to hold on to their property.

And a wireless connection to the Alarm company.....

My question is why did we stop teaching our children right from wrong?

Oh wait, modern society demanded that we do that.

That was placing too much pressure on the little darlings according to the fuzzy headed liberal bunch - not a good thing to do.

It would also hurt the self esteem of the little (censored)...heaven forbid they be taught things like following the rules....or respect of others and their property.

My guess is that you three were raised by two parents, as was I.

Such is not the case with many children today. They start out with no hope of having a "normal" life. Most have only a mother, who may be stupid all the time.

Case in point, already told you about my step daughter, and her three boys.

My daughter stays at home and nurtures her 4 children. They are well adjusted. Although she is a teacher, her kids go to public school. All of her children have the same father, who is still married to my girl. He works two jobs so she can stay at home. He's a nice guy and I feel really lucky. I'd like to think they will have a better life because of it. At least they will have a chance.

I hope this doesn't sound like chest beating, because that's not my point.

Yes...I grew up with two parents.....I also know plenty of people that grew up in a single family home....some the result of the death of a parent, some due to divorce.

I also have known more than a few people that grew up with two very respectible parents in the best neighborhood but were still some of the most evil kids I ever knew. While some of the ones that grew up mostly with only one parent as some of the best I have known. Even some of the poorest ones from the worst neighborhoods produced a few of the nicest ones I know to this day.

My point there is its not always the fault of others when a kid goes bad. Many of those I have known had all of the advantages good families, and some cases money you could want. And still did what they did. A couple are doing life, a couple are dead....and handful actually finally made good out of their lives. Some remain the scum they always were.

The moral being.....the ultimate responsibility remains with the individual. Life is what you make of it.

Caught stealing is one thing how about caught buying a stolen A/C?

If there is no market for stolen property then the motivation to steal disappears.

The thieving industry has these two parties working in concert. Weather dependent punishment is a little strange. Just string 'em all up. I'll bring the rope.

The is equipment is not being stolen to be sold again, it is stolen to be turned in for cash for metal. Since the price of copper has risen due to demand they make alot of money stealing it and turning it in. Kind of the same principal as "Cash for Gold". That marketing line has lead to lots of home break In's in the beginning.

The scrap merchant is the buyer in this instance. Do you think they really don't know that the stuff they buy is nicked? They buy it cheap too so they can make a bigger margin. There is a lot of incentive to buy stolen scrap because the seller is in no position to haggle. Metal launderers!

It is unfortunate, however the world must recycle metals to save our environment.

Lets just go place the blame on construction in foreign counties that are running up the price of copper driving its value to thievery proportions. Ummmm No!

Bottom line is, no matter the cost (resale price), no matter the buyer it is the thief that is doing the stealing and that is the problem and person to blame here, not the person buying the product.

If the world had honest people in it there would not ba a problem.

This is probably the only thing I agree with in sharia law. Remove a hand. As Dr Abu Jabar stated "you only get caught twice" (UT Prof of Poly Sci 1966).

Oh pnaban, poverty has NOTHING to do with theft. Only the ignorant think otherwise. Thieves have everything to do with theft.

Need a few examples; Saddam Hussein, all of UNESCO, all of UNICEF, Ghadafi, US Congress.

Why did UK,USA,UN etc attack Iraq are they poor,for robbery only.

Simple thing so many people make an active decision to ignore...

It was a thing called a Cease Fire Agreement.

Think after 10 years it should have been forgotten about? Then let me point you to a place called Korea.