Left2MyOwnDevices

"In 1971′s A Clockwork Orange, a patient is conditioned through aversion therapy, subjected to violent imagery and nausea-inducing drugs in the hopes of reforming criminals."

In 2012, we've got CR4!

Yes. It's enough to drive you batty!

ARRRGH!

I've been waiting for a week and a half for an opening to say that!

Well played and well done.

Too bad you couldn't work in a henway as well. Two for one.

Mikerho (the straight man): What the hell's a henway, anyway????

About 2-3 pounds

<rim shot>

Bingo, dealing with my kid brother everyday is the testimony to this.

Why would an unpopular, outcast teen decided to act out his frustration on schoolmates?

Let's see, he lives in a culture that glorifies violence and has easy access to deadly weapons, nope, no clues there.

GA kramarat,

In today's world, teens are immersed in social 24/7. For many kids, sports and outdoor activity have been replaced by video gaming and online chatter. It's a sea of noise, with constant messaging. TV has shifted into social mode, showcasing what passes for popularity in increasingly overt so-called reality shows. In all this, how could anyone feel alone and adrift in silence? It's increasingly common.

We have a tendancy to equate social networks like Facebook, MySpace, etc. with real relationships and we couldn't be farther from the truth. These venues are mere excuses for true relationships and the interaction that takes place in a face to face/voice to voice relationship.

The value of much of what is communicated in these kinds of networks is minimal because of a number of factors, one of them being that there may be little authenticity to the person being communicated with. Just because there is a picture and a name doesn't mean that is the person at all. There are many predators on-line looking for those disenfranchised people (kids mostly) they can take advantage of for their own reasons (pornography, sex trade, crime, etc.).

I think another reason there seems to be so much aberrant behavior (violence, bullying, etc.) is because of the breakdown of the family unit. The home should be a place of sanctuary for its members. Instead, it is a place of conflict and dysfunction. Dad and Mom don't get along well, if they're still together, or if they are together, they still may not "be there" emotionally, etc. They are so busy chasing status and crap that doesn't matter that they ignore the people in their lives who truly have value, their kids. There are lots of studies that show how important it is for families to spend time together at meals, playing games, talking together without the interruption and clamor of TV, radio, noise. Kids need adults who have emotional and relational maturity to interact with. If the healthy environment isn't present at home there are places like church, sports associations, Scouts, etc. where needs can be met.

If those kind of relationships aren't present where do they learn their skills from? Chances are they think what passes for real relationships is not what will bring success relationally. It's like watching some of the "reality" shows and thinking that is normal, when it couldn't be farther from the truth. They are just portraying the lowest common denominator rather than portaying healthy, sucessful relationships in which true skills are exhibited.

Many kids today also think the world revolves around them. They are selfish, self-centered, inconsiderate people who don't respect themselves, others or the property of others. They then are more apt to treat others accordingly. "Having a humble spirit is not thinking less of yourself, it is thinking of yourself less."

There was a study done recently that reported that most people only have 2 good friends. We were created to be relational beings who need others to interact with. The quote that says "no man is an island" is correct. We need others to interact with and serve in humbleness.

Which way would the discussion go if it were a woman abused by a man and she killed him? We would most likely say that she was justified! The impact on an individual being bullied is the problem. The bullies are the problem, just as, an abusive partner is. I do not justify what was done, but, we need to look at it in the same way as we do other instances. Do we think we would be discussing this IF the kid was not bullied?

IMO, it looks like Kram has nailed some of the major problems in the schools today and this latest "Generation" (X ?) of kiddies, but I want to add some more (my take):

Just look at what type of movies, TV, and video games these kids are viewing and playing with now days. It's nothing but out and out glorified violence, with practically no limits....no civility whatsoever. In fact most of the crap they view actually aggrandizes it. Plus, they act as if they are totally "entitled" to just about anything under the Sun; we (the Baby Boomer Generation) can blame ourselves for spoiling them. Another thing that really stinks in Denmark is this PC crappola that's leached into the school systems....there's no accountability until the real damage is done where we are forced afterwards with the cleanup of the death and destruction while all the while asking ourselves how this could have happened? Unfortunately, the schools, both public and private, are being turned into battlegrounds that feature metal detectors at entrances and armed Sheriff Deputies or local Cops patrolling the hallways. Hell, even the ever present, rampant, and constantly prevalent acceptance of drug culture isn't helping things. You wouldn't believe how many teenagers end up in the County jail for possession and distribution of hard core drugs, like crack, crank and heroine......I know all about this because my wife is a Registered Nurse working in our county jail medical unit....I hear about it every night from her after a hard days work of her medically evaluating the little pipsqueaks. It's enough to make you sick to your stomach.

Just my take on things.....

I'm not so sure about the glorified violence part.

A Clockwork Orange was required reading while I was in high school, as was Lord Of The Flies and Catch 22. On my own, I had read everything The Brothers Grimm had written, that was available, by the end of third grade. Nothing but gore.

Before high school, my friends and I played army, beat the cr*p out of each other with sticks, threw snow and ice balls at each other, shot BB guns at each other in massive wars, played king of the mountain from the top of a cargo container.................................real blood, real broken bones, real knocked out teeth......................yeah, the good old days.

Today we are trying to force kids to behave in a way that is contrary to human nature. We need to let them compete, let them fight, (to a certain extent), let them get their feelings hurt. It's called growing up, and it ain't always pretty. The current system that society has put in place is denying them that. We are only seeing the tip of the dysfunctional iceberg that we have wrought..................I think it's gonna get much worse. How can it not, with an entire generation of kids emerging, that don't believe they are responsible for anything?

Aside: Yeah, we too played "Army" in my neighborhood when I was kid, back in the 60's and early 70's...anything goes and a massive amount of kids. Try a bottle rocket battle for kicks, just for the heck of it.....hell, we did that one 4th of July during my college years with nearly 300 players on a friend's farm, split into 3 equal teams. Whata p*sser! LOL Nearly 10,000 bottle rockets expended! Hell, I caught one square in the chest, and another one in back of my neck! Those MF's really hurt ya!

Kramarat,

Had I had the time on this busy (for me) Friday morning, I might have written my previous post very similarly to yours.

Thanks for echoing my feelings exactly!

Hooker

PS - One of the scariest things I remember seeing as a kid was a puppet show rendition of "Peter And The Wolf" in Germany. Talk about blood and gore on stage!!!!!

Just working off your post:

Here's a shining "city on the hill" that has been under control of liberal progressives since 1962. It's amazing that they still believe that utopia can be achieved through government handouts, social progams, and the lifting of self responsibility.

It's also remarkable that the people that made this short film, refuse to see things as they are. They see the decay as a result of corporate greed and the greed of the wealthy. It has nothing to do with the state sponsored destuction of the nuclear family and the thousands that choose to lay around and do nothing all day. It's really sad. And yet, this is what we are being told. It's coming from sources right up to the White House........................amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ3xVoVv93Q

Having once lived in suburban Detroit (14 Mile and Mound Road area) I certainly understand why Detroit is what it is today. The progressives simply refuse to understand the ramifications of confiscatory tax policies.

As somebody once said, and I'm paraphrasing, Communism/socialism works great until you run out of other peoples' money.

And when you run the businesses out you soon run out of other peoples' money, and all the good people that were there because of those businesses. What's mostly left is the scavengers, scammers and those dependent on the handouts. And when the handouts run out...

You're left with a blighted Detroit.

Hooker

Margaret Thatcher is where your quote came from. It's a good one.

Just to tie this conversation back into the original blog. And this is not coming from a religious perspective, just plain old common sense/ right from wrong. It's far deeper and more insidious than tax policies. It's also not, in my opinion, due to social networking and violent video games.

From the pulpit of the liberal left we hear that promiscuity, abortion and sloth, among other things, are not only a virtue, but a right. A right that should be paid for by others.

We hear that competition is bad.................sameness is good.................all are equal that way.

I have a little niece that has been benched because she made too many baskets on her basketball team of 12 year olds............................Why? Because it's not fair to the other kids and it hurts their feelings.

When they speak of diversity, it's not skill sets and individual talents. Their idea of diversity only applies to skin color and sexual preference. Things that the vast majority of us care nothing about.........................and yet they keep the divisions alive..................they need them.

Our kids are taught in school that America is a guilty nation that has stolen what we have.

They pretend to be sympathetic as they move people from long term unemployment to the welfare/food stamp roles.

Their policies lay lives and communities to waste..........................nothing to strive for...................nothing to look forward to, but the government check in the mailbox at the end of the month.....................a cesspool of hopelessness. They tell them that there's nothing to be ashamed of. They tell able bodied people that do nothing, that they are there to help.

They are so caught up in their own egos and intelligence, that they see no need for governing.....................they want to rule. Because only they are smart enough to know what's good for us.

They work toward these goals by dumbing down our schools, dumbing down entire races of people that are fully capable, and telling us that we need quotas in the name of fairness. I don't buy it.

They feign horror when some kid shoots up his school.

They tell us that civility must be restored, and only they can do it. They create more laws................more rules for us to follow. Laws against bullying, laws against hate, and they tell us that they care.

They are the minority and they have infiltrated our schools, universities...............pretty much every aspect of our lives.

These people are wrong in so many ways. They see poverty and dependency as votes, and they see votes as continued power. They are perfectly willing to turn the entire country into Detroit if we let them.

Don't like kids shooting up schools?

Stop teaching them that they are victims.

Teach them self respect and pride.

Teach them to work.........................make them work.

Spank them if they need it, when they are young. Teach them that actions have consequences....................from the time they are small.

Teach them to roll with the punches and take the bad with the good. Sometimes life sucks................get over it.

Teach them that in life, no one is responsible for taking care of them, but them.

When things like this happen, we need to go ahead and point the finger at the true culprit.........................it's not facebook, twitter, and video games. It's the fact that rampant liberalism has stripped anything that resembles self accountability from our society. Their work is not finished. Yep......................it needs to be exposed for what it is before it destroys us.

{Rant off}

Oh shoot. I scared everyone off again.

To be fair. I like liberals....................they've done a lot of good, and many of them are my friends.

Here's a list of what I consider good, and essential, liberal accomplishments.

Archie Bunker showed us how stupid, racial bias is.

M*A*S*H showed us how utterly stupid war is.

Liberals led the way to responsible and sustainable forestry practices.................and in fact, that we must be stewards of the planet and not destroy it.

Liberals were largely responsible for bringing the Vietnam war to a close. I lost childhood heroes there, and stopping it was the right thing to do.

There are many more. The problem is, that liberals are excellent at fighting the "man'. In many cases I'm right on board with the fight. They are terrible at being the "man". They lose sight of the fight, and the forest for the trees. Once in power, the ends always justify the means. They see themselves as right, and therefore will trample anything in their path to get to where they think we should be...................including the Constitution.

It doesn't work.

Another example of the liberal mindset is from a couple of years ago when some young girls, I think they were 15 years old, made a pact to get pregnant. When it took place the liberals cried "how could this happen"? I'll tell you how it happened. The teenagers were simply responding to the liberal mindset they are seeking to have the youngsters inculcate in their lives; if it feels good do it, here is birth control (without your parents consent), we will provide abortion (killing the child) services if you happen to get pregnant, you're responsible only to yourself, dress without modesty, there are no absolute standards to live by, you decide what is right or wrong, etc.

When we get those results we think it's terrrible, and it is, but we're only getting the fruit of what is planted in their minds.

We as adults are to set the standards high. Live them out in our own lives with integrity and then expect and guide our young people with strong, loving, understanding, listening lives.

I would agree, that as a society, we are treating our kids as adults at far too young of an age. Parents seem to have become more concerned with being friends with their kids, rather than being parents that set rules. As a result, we have kids that are making horrible decisions, due to the fact that they don't have the life experience to make good ones.

Despite what they say, I think all kids yearn for responsible direction, with clearly defined rules in place. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care whether they like it or not...................it's what they need.

It's remarkable that for thousands of years of human existence, kids were expected to work, and work hard. Disobedience came with a spanking or a strap. Now we have a new breed of child psychologists that are throwing that out the window, and along with it, we get skyrocketing drop-out rates, teenage pregnancy, juvenile delinquency.....................................and yes, kids bringing guns to school and blowing away their classmates............................and yet still, the kings and queens of "smart", insist that their approach is best.

I don't care how nurturing, caring and forgiving an environment we try to create, there are always going to be incidences of aberrant individuals performing anti-social behavior. It's just a section of the bell curve of human psychology.

We are all individuals, not mindless sheep. Though it does appear that many of our leaders (here in the US) want to mold us "lesser beings" into a mindless herd.

Hooker

Here's an interesting article from Bob Livingston's Personal liberty Alerts email regarding the current crop of spoiled children that I just received this morning (I tried to link it, but that didn't work.....sorry about this moderators!):

When Spoiled-Rotten Children Grow Up

March 2, 2012 by Chip Wood

Riot police had to be called to an Orlando mall on Feb. 23. Why? Because an unruly crowd of would-be shoppers couldn't wait to get their hands on the new Foamposite One Galaxy by Nike.

In case you've never heard of it (I hadn't either), this is a special-edition basketball shoe that Nike introduced just days before the NBA All-Star Game. The House of Hoops by Foot Locker at Florida Mall had ordered a bunch of the shoes and announced that they would be sold (at $220 a pair) on a first-come, first-served basis at midnight.

Hundreds of people showed up long before the sale was to begin. Police were called to maintain some semblance of order. But well before the sale began, several hundred people rushed the door.

Law enforcement officers in riot gear pushed back the crowd. The store decided not to open that night at all. By Friday morning, Foot Locker announced that it was canceling the All-Star weekend shoe release at six other malls because of "safety concerns."

So a near-riot broke out because some spoiled brats couldn't wait to get their hands on a $220 pair of tennis shoes. Isn't that ridiculous?

Frankly, we shouldn't be surprised. This is just one more consequence of the entitlement philosophy our children have been taught. It's been going for several generations.

Let me begin the litany of who's to blame with these kids' teachers. What sort of messages have they been sending their young wards? How much of our history have they been teaching them? What kind of character have they been building?

Nationally, teachers' unions collect hundreds of millions of dollars every year from mandatory dues. They spend a ton of it lobbying for laws they want passed. Or, as they've proven in dozens of States, battling legislation they oppose. They are an almost perfect example of the "I want mine, and I want it now" philosophy - no matter the cost to the overburdened taxpayers who must foot the bills.

The teachers' unions defend a status quo that produces 1 million high-school dropouts a year and a graduation rate of less than 50 percent for black and Hispanic students. What sort of education do the kids who do graduate have? How much of this country's history have they learned? You don't want to ask. Heck, half of them can't write a literate sentence or give the correct change for a $20 bill.

But let's not let the parents off the hook. How many of them are delighted to let the schools take all responsibility for training and teaching their young? How many try to give their kids everything they want, from the latest cell phone and video game to $150 jeans and $200 tennis shoes?

In fact, how many of those same parents bought more house than they could afford, then decided that somebody else had to pay for their mistake? Five of our largest banks have been pressured into creating a $26 billion kitty to help bail them out. Of course, this won't begin to paper over the problems. So you can expect a lot more hands to be out, demanding that someone come to their rescue.

And let's not forget about one of the most feared and powerful voting blocs in this country: our senior citizens. Any politician with the temerity to try to change some of the entitlement programs that are bankrupting this country is sure to face some of the most vicious and dishonest advertising campaigns this country has ever seen. Remember the Democrats' response to Paul Ryan's efforts to reform Medicare? Their "throw grandma off the cliff" TV ad was a classic of the type.

The demagogues on the left learned long ago that if they can portray an opponent as wanting to "eliminate Social Security" or "slash Medicare," they are almost certain of victory. So what if they are creating obligations this country can't afford to keep? They want political power now - no matter the obligations that will be passed down to our children and grandchildren.

The "Age of Entitlement" isn't limited to a bunch of spoiled teenagers threatening to riot if they can't get the brand-new basketball shoes they want. You'll find plenty of members in every age group in this country.

How much of a stake do these people have in preserving and protecting the system, when they pay almost nothing into it? Nearly half of the adults in America don't pay a penny in income taxes. What do they care how much your taxes have to go up to provide them with the goodies they are certain they deserve?

To quote an old phrase, anyone who promises to rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the vote of Paul. And my friends, there are an awful lot of Pauls and Paulines in this country now.

And there are a lot of people willing to promise them almost anything in exchange for their votes.

We'll find out in November who will win the next round in this ongoing struggle.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

-Chip Wood

Was the shooter on drugs, prescribed by well-meaning professionals?

Our public schools were established on the Prussian model, to produce obedient workers and soldiers, while the elites send their children to private schools. (Who was the last president to send his children to the Washington, DC, public schools?) The rule is: Shut up. Sit down. Obey authority. Rational thought is not desired. (A principal who suspends a student for drawing a picture of a gun, because guns are not allowed in school, is rational?) They teach misinformation, junk science, and sanitized history.

I take school children on tours of the National World War One Museum in Kansas City, MO. If I get the chance, I slip in an unscripted comment along the lines of this: "Almost anyone can learn from his own mistakes. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes. That's why smart people study history. This museum is full of artifacts, objects from the Great War, but it is not really a history museum. Our policy is that there are no good guys, no bad guys, no winners, no losers, and no one made a mistake. We don't mention taxes, inflation, hate, starvation, genocide, loss of civil rights, or the fact that every politician tells lies. Officially, no one knows why the war happened and no one was to blame. You will have to ask your teacher." (The teacher doesn't know, either) Is it any wonder children grow up with so little grasp of "the real world" or ethics and vote with their hearts (the way they support an athletic team) instead of with their heads?

Our policy is that there are no good guys, no bad guys, no winners, no losers, and no one made a mistake.

Well that's just wonderful.

So it's politically incorrect to say that in the course of history, tens of thousands of Americans gave their lives to defend complete strangers a half a world away?

Scary stuff.

esbuck, I hope you are being "tongue in cheek" when you made this comment. Or, making a point by absurdity.

If not, I know you've been listening to our glorious leader barack hussein obama toooo much. He goes all over the world apologizing for this great country of ours.

America is great, like Toqueville said, "because Americans are good". We aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but we have been good for the world at large. Who responds, usually first, when disaster strikes anywhere in the world? It's Americans who have a heart and the resources to help those who are in need. Many times regardless of their affection or lack of affection for us. Anytime someone tries to enslave others or gradually take away their freedom, they are bad! There is right and wrong, good and bad. There are some governments/dictators who generally fall in either of those categories.

History is a great way to learn how to manage affairs for today and for the future. History is replete with examples of "good" people who stood up to tyranny and for the little guy.

This particular problem in our schools, (and apparently our museums too), can't be laid at the feet of the current President.......................it's happened over decades.

This does however, tie into one of the reasons, (maybe the primary one), of why kids are willing to bring a gun to school and kill people.

Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, nothing is your fault, you are not responsible, you are a victim, etc. To rewrite history in these same flavors is absurd................and probably dangerous. Kids are routinely being fed a candy coated, rainbow colored version of reality, and it's wrecking their brains.

It's particularly disgusting to think, that the Americans that died for our country and the world, are being relegated to nothingness by this new version of history. It makes me sick.

I agree. History is what it is.

It needs to be presented accurately. Kind of tying back into my point...........a factual representation of history, (not just US), should be accompanied by lessons on how both the good side, and the dark side, of human nature have played out over the centuries.

Not only would history be a more interesting subject in school, but knowing about the duality and extremes of human nature would help kids to better know themselves. I think they often times feel as if they are the only one that ever felt a certain way. By understanding the commonality of dark feelings/actions among all humans, as well as the consequences that can be illustrated throughout history, it's quite possible that they would at least sit and contemplate their motivations before bringing a gun to school and killing classmates. I'd like to think that the thoughts would remain dark fantasy and never get played out.

<<"esbuck, I hope you are being "tongue in cheek" when you made this comment. Or, making a point by absurdity.

"If not, I know you've been listening to our glorious leader barack hussein obama toooo much. He goes all over the world apologizing for this great country of ours.">>

NO, my comment was not "tongue in cheek". It may be absurd, but what I said is true. I invite you to visit our museum in Kansas City, MO. rent an audio "tour", and hear what our Curator, Education Director, et al have to say.

No, I don't give much credence to what our (or any) glorious leader says. One lesson of The Great War: All polititians tell lies. Another: Nations do not start wars. Individuals of mediocre mind and corrupt character start wars. Example: Count Berchtold, the Austrian foreign minister. Then the sheeple do what they are told. Religious leaders reinforce the propaganda. When Britain maintained the blockade to prevent food imports to Germany even after the armistice, it was justified because
"Germany started the war" (not true), and they deserved to starve. Some say 219,000 Germans died of malnutrition during 1918, mostly children, the elderly, those in institutions, and the poor. Most Brits were told the only good German is a dead German, even German schoolchildren, who might grow up to start another war.

Do you suppose there are genes for hate? Isn't it interesting that the four men most likely to be elected president all seem to feel that, as men of faith, they would be justified in bombing Iranians, because Iran might grow up to start a war.

AP#1 said, "As far as de Toqueville, he was only 25 when he visited here... hardly a 'wise' age.

Patriotism is good to the point of encouraging the highest ideals, but can be dangerous when it becomes only a platform to look at others with righteous indignation. It's the old "speck and mote" idea. It can lead to war."

Wisdom doesn't come with age. Just because de Toqueville was 25 doesn't mean he wasn't wise. My son is 22 and I would venture to say he has a lot more wisdom and advanced thinking than a lot of people who are 50/60 and are simply floating downstream like dead fish. They may have a lot more years of experience but that means nothing. Wisdom comes from experiences reflected upon, learned from and then applied to the next situation that is dealt with. Those experiences can be yours or someone else's, through audios, books, relationships.

Patriotism doesn't mean one doesn't see one's own faults and not seek to remedy them. Patriotism is a sense of pride in the country we are a part of. That is a great thing! And it is because of that that we want to work on those things and become an even greater asset to the world. It doesn't say there weren't and aren't deficiencies. No one wants to be a part of an organization or country that constantly pisses on itself by saying how bad we are to anyone who will listen; especially by it's leadership, i.e. barack hussein obama.

America has had faults and will continue to have faults. The problem will come when people have resigned themselves to those failures and give up on trying to solve them. That happens when people don't have hope for something better. When kids bring guns to school or adults shoot up shopping centers or offices, they have said "I don't see any resolution for the crap I'm dealing with", in relationships, economic conditions, etc. and I will be selfish and take out my frustration on anyone I can.

This example of a positive, uplifting perspective needs to start with top leadership like the president. Downplaying our greatness doesn't benefit anyone. "We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people will not feel insecure around you. We were born to manifest the glory of God that is within us. It is not in just some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." This quote says much about our ability to impact others. If more people viewed their lives like this we would have less people with aberrant behavior being exhibited.

Good post.........................with one exception.

I think it's fine to criticize policy, liberalism, teaching methods or lack of, etc. However, when you publicly denigrate and judge the sitting President, (by name), in my opinion, you are lowering yourself to a level that you claim to abhor. You cannot, in good conscience, hold him personally responsible for all of society's current woes.

Are some of his policies a contributing factor? Probably................as were some of those of his predecessor, and all before them.

Attack the policies. They will be around long after this President is gone. It's those that must be stopped. Attacking people isn't going to cause a groundswell of common sense. If we want our kids to be thinking, productive adults, we need to destroy the root of the problem, not individual practitioners.

For example: By simply using facts, it's quite easy to point out the absurd, without getting into a political or religious rant.

Here's a classic and one that could be illustrated in the classroom:

In the US, a manger in the town square is considered to be offensive. A public display of a crucifix in a jar of urine, is protected as art.

State the facts and let the kids make up their own minds.

Regardless of political or religious affiliation, I think the source of societal rot that leads to things like school shootings, becomes quite apparent.

I don't hold bho responsible for all of societies woes! What I am being critical of is this sitting President going all over the world and apologizing for things that happen and also communicating that America isn't great. "There isn't anything special about us and we aren't exceptional". I do hold bho for the policies that bring us to our knees socially, financially and morally and holding him responsible is not detrimental to the country. It is allowing people in leadership, on both sides of the aisle, to not do what is right for the country as a whole that is detrimental.

Acknowledging that we are great and exceptional doesn't mean we don't have issues to work on or that we haven't made mistakes in the past or that we don't take responsibilty for wrong doing, we have. When we don't have any sense of pride or self worth in who we are as individuals or as a corporate body (USA) our behavior will reflect that.

I don't think this guy in the office of the President has any clue about the stature that office of the President holds, i.e. calling this gal from the law school who was lobbying Congress for us to buy birth control for her so she could exhibit the morals of an alley cat on someone else's dime. She took some flak for that and bho calls her to apologize for someone else's actions. I think there are much more critical issues for him to be spending his time on.

"Attack the policies. They will be around long after this President is gone. It's those that must be stopped." This is part of the problem. The policies reflect the leadership, whether Democrat, Republican or whatever. The results of those policies are then exhibited in the dyanamic of society, either good or bad.

Leadership is critical to the welfare of the organization. Leadership needs to set the bar high, not low.

My earlier post ended up quite different than it started. In fact, I erased it and replied to the comments about our goodness. I did emphasize that we shouldn't become morose when acknowledging past failures.

I would definitely agree about wisdom being "ageless." But by the definition, "experiences reflected upon," I would say his life experiences would be limited at that age (in this life). Now, one can argue that some people have an inherent wisdom from a young age, just like child prodigies who can play pianos at 2 or 3 years old, etc. Because of my view on life, I see this as relating to "past life" experience. I just don't know if I would classify all of his observations as "wisdom." Sadly, I think people in that era -- especially upper class Europeans -- were more educated in "classical" philosophy than people of the same age today. Reading classical philosophy was just part of an upper class education. That can also be where wisdom is acquired. By doing so, now one is accessing the "reflections" of many others regarding deep questions/issues about life. This is part of what I meant when asking the question, "Did/have we lived up to ideals?" And which ones were we striving for?

On apologizing for our mistakes... it reminds me of an old episode of "Happy Days." (Now, there's some classical philosophy! ) Fonzie just couldn't bring himself to say the phrase, "I was wrong." I think he finally did, but I can't remember if it was with those exact words or in some roundabout way. The point being, apologies are tied up and constrained by what we perceive as "just." This conflict is no minor subject. It was a central part of Jesus' (and other religious figures') teaching. If justice is the highest ideal, the advice/teaching would never have been to forgive and sacrifice "more than is asked of you," (paraphrased to encompass the whole statement) and to "love them that persecute you." A subject that should give pause for reflection is the conflict between pride and humility.

A common sense view is that a nation can't be expected to behave as an individual. But if a collection of individuals do all behave according to the same set of ideals, then the group/nation will appear to do so. That is a whole subject in itself. Forgiveness is the best hope to short-circuit the cycle of seeking justice. Suffice it to say, nations/peoples (specifically related to patriotism) do anticipate apologies for atrocities by other nations against them. They rarely get them.

A subject in this vein, that would evoke strong feelings in many, is the subject of whether or not the U.S. should have apologized to Japan for using the nuclear bomb. As horrific as it was, many (especially those who were scheduled to attack Japan in a land war) would say it saved many American lives. But did we really need to hurt so many "innocent" people? I think it is schizophrenic that we have "rules for war." (??) Only an insane person would glorify war and all of its suffering. I tend to assess Forgiveness as the highest wisdom -- and the hardest to follow. That Obama apologized to Japan for our country using the atomic bomb doesn't bother me. It's an admission that violence is a very tragic way to solve disputes and it has no bounds. All "options" available for destruction are "on the table," in modern PC vernacular. Sabre rattling is how we relate to one another. Does this demonstrate an advancement of our species? Not to me.

Sorry for such a long digression. Obviously, these questions are answered by each of us with our own reflections on them.

My initial post, that I scrapped, was comparing the "rites of passage" to manhood, in older, indigenous cultures, to ours. Every society has "outliers." I haven't studied Anthropology enough to know the history of how "abnormal" individuals emerged (again, past life hypothesis helps explain this) in older, indigenous cultures or how they were handled. I just have a gut feeling that these specific "rites of passage," led to a more consistently, "stronger," individual. Stronger, meaning, more able to cope with the stress of life without manifesting destructive behavior. Tradition was/is a strong influence in a culture. I think tradition is mostly a set of ideals. Is modern culture relegating highly idealistic traditions to the scrap heap of history?

There seem to be a ton of Internet links from a search based on, "breakdown of the American family." Most of the links seem to assume (or presume) that, yes, this is an important component in analyzing modern society and it's problems. But a family unit and it's tradition can be anything. Witness white supremacy and Neo-Nazi groups/families. That subject, now, begins to includes the nature/nurture debate.

How much influence does a family unit have compared to relationships via social media? Those can be almost totally hidden from parents; i.e., Texting, etc. Is a child's "journal/diary" sacrosanct?... If so, does it cross that barrier at some age? And are the stresses of today's life much different and more intense than those that come with, what seems, a much simpler life of earlier times? I think it is a matter of context and interpretation. What seems like a "life and death" stress or struggle in the mind of an individual today, might not have even occurred in another time. If the support offered by a family unit built on high ideals and traditions is important to how an individual handles these stresses, then one has to conclude that there has been a deterioration in this "system." Pat answers may even be correct. But implementing them can be a struggle. I think many modern parents would agree and lament that proposition.

(Please forgive any typos and grammatical errors.)

I think your following statement has much merit to it in helping to explain our societal predicament we find ourselves in: "I haven't studied Anthropology enough to know the history of how "abnormal" individuals emerged (again, past life hypothesis helps explain this) in older, indigenous cultures or how they were handled. I just have a gut feeling that these specific "rites of passage," led to a more consistently, "stronger," individual. Stronger, meaning, more able to cope with the stress of life without manifesting destructive behavior. Tradition was/is a strong influence in a culture. I think tradition is mostly a set of ideals. Is modern culture relegating highly idealistic traditions to the scrap heap of history?"

We are dumbing down our response to bad behavior and explaining it away due to someone's environment, socio-economic conditions, family history, educational oppurtunities, etc. The list for excusing bad behavior is a long one. The problem with that is that we have absolved people of their personal responsibility and accountability which are critical for the forming of behavioral patterns.

If you were in the "baby boomer" or earlier generation, what happened if you sassed to your dad or mom or maybe even someone in the neighborhood? Your butt paid a price. There were high standards in school and the parents, for the most part, supported the discipline of the schools. Now it's "my Johnny/Susie is such a good boy/girl and they would never do anything bad like that. You must be prejudiced against him/her for some reason. You can't tell him to behave." We can see where that mentality has gotten us.

We need to return to a different approach that worked. It wasn't perfect but there were a whole lot less problems with aberrant behavior. When I was going to high school (graduated HS in '72) kids had rifles or shotguns in the racks in their pick ups. There was never a problem or threat.

When my kids were little they got spanked for willful disobedience or lack of respect to authority, ours or any other adult who had a position of authority over them. Many parents anymore want to be their kids' pals and therefore abdicate their role of authority not realizing that by they're being a pal, the kids suffer because there isn't anyone in their lives who will be serious and hold them accountable.

Your statement that the breakdown of the family unit is dead on! There are plenty of statistics that show how beneficial a normal set of parents; dad and mom, not mom and mom, or dad and dad; involved in the lives of their children is. I understand that sometimes there is only one parent present and if they are present physically and emotionally, the kids still have a better chance. And it isn't simply that they are physically present, it is that they are emotionally present as well. Only then can there be healthy relationships. Josh McDowell said "discipline without relationships is rebellion." How true!

"Did/have we lived up to ideals?" And which ones were we striving for? This is a critical question you asked. If there are no principles and standards that are absolute our kids grow up confused about what is expected of them. For me, Biblical standards are the basis for that. Some people will disagree, but they can't disagree that some things are not acceptable in the general society. There has to be order/standards or there will be chaos and dysfunction.

There are many stresses that our children must deal with. That is where we as parents much be intentional about teaching them and also to model mature responses to difficult situations. That isn't done with alcohol, abusive relationships or escapism. Remember, "more is caught than taught" when it comes to living life well/successfully.

Yes. Another way of saying it is: "Example is better than precept." THAT is mainly how a "rite of passage" was/is given it's weight... not "Do as I say, not as I do." The most influential people in our lives (speaking personally) are those who taught by example. When I think of this I do think of a certain nobility, for instance, that many of the native Americans were examples of. Certainly, not all. But many. Chief Joseph is one. There are many "examples" that children can (and should) be directed to and inspired by... preferably a mix from different countries and cultures to demonstrate that nobility of character can and does exist outside the boundary of race. Still, the most influential will be their parents, or lack thereof, and the example they set. Great men/women of the past are definitely inspirational. But nothing beats a living example within the sphere of the child. True living is "caught" more so than "taught." We want children to not be violent... then don't be violent ourselves, etc.

I appreciate your adopting Biblical "standards." What is known as the Golden Rule is all that is truly necessary. As was said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." If this was made part and parcel in each of our lives, there would be much less violence across the board in this world. And more sympathy.

(Over and out for the weekend.)

Great contrast in values and what is acceptable.

It doesn't mean the couple in the top picture were idyllic. They may not have been, but there is a much better chance for normalcy in their lives and the lives of their children.

The couple in the bottom picture look anything but happy. They look morose and hopeless, with no sense of shame. The sad thing is they don't think anything is wrong. They are willing to parade their dyfunction out in public for all to see. What we display is what we think is acceptable, or we simply don't care. There is a generation of kids in our culture who simply don't care about themselves or anyone else. This is played out in video games, attire, social interaction, vandalism, suicide, rampant alcohol and drug abuse, sexual activity, etc.

Part or most of that is our fault as adults who refuse to live lives of integrity and morality ourselves. We are chasing the almighty dollar without regard for the damage that is being caused, i.e. parents not home and not spending time with their kids, marketing and selling products that appeal to base desires, glorifying drugs and alcohol as a way to escape reality, accepting the idea that anything is ok "as long as it isn't 'hurting' anyone", the list goes on.

If we want to heal some of the ills in society we need to return to a standard of behavior that isn't dependent upon what you and I think is acceptable. Where we are in society is a clear testament to the thinking that everyone can decide on their own what is right or wrong, look at statistics of; bankruptcy, suicide, drug/alcohol abuse, pregnancy rates with teens, the rate of STD's in the population (adults and teens), sex trafficing, abortion, educational standards and graduation, etc. This mindset clearly is not working!

Freedom is in not doing things our way, but it is doing things according to longstanding principles that have been proven to work for the general populace.

Something I just came across that is appropriate to the discussion;

"I never wonder to see men wicked, but I often wonder to see them not ashamed." Swift, Jonathan

People have lost their sense of shame in this overly politically correct world. This comes from a lack of standards that are not subjective to your and mine opinion.

<< accepting the idea that anything is ok "as long as it isn't 'hurting' anyone",>>

I wish more people would accept that idea. It used to be that "tolerance" was part of the American way. As long as someone wasn't hurting anyone, let him do his thing. Bullies don't accept that, nor do puritans who rush to prosecute victimless crimes, intruding into doctors' offices, bedrooms, etc. where they have no business to be. The key is "hurting anyone". Our local fascists think any hurt is justified for a "Progressive" social good. Meanwhile, we have people driving aggressively, littering, doing grafitti, etc., because it doesn't occur to them that they are hurting anyone. I have had high school students who never heard of the Golden Rule (too much like religion?) and had trouble comprehending the idea.

Yes, it does seem we, as a nation, do not think of the other person. We hanged Germans for invading Poland. No one seems to think we should hang those who invaded Iraq, because "we are exceptional." The most likely candidates for President do not seem to question the hurtfulness of bombing Iran, as their bullyiing instincts are to do so.

Yeah, the pendulum can swing both ways.

Decent behavior can't be mandated and forced. Neither side seems to understand that. It has to be taught and shown through example. It also has to be a choice...................one that people can feel proud of, and feel good about themselves for making.

I'm really not comfortable with government dictating behavior one way or another, unless of course it's against the law. On the other hand, I think dress codes in schools are okay, as well as discipline.

It needs to start in the home. Unfortunately, the government is very busy trying to supplant the parents, in the minds of the kids, and basically telling them that everything is alright, and if it's not, it's not their fault.