APIX Pilot Plant Design Project – Recycling Wastes

To the APIX Blog Members I earlier today, the 9th of December promised to write a list.

It is as much a list of questions, as answers at this point.

What is proposed is a Pilot Project. It is proposed as a co-operative. The goal is to make any rural farm self sustaining and as profitable as possible regardless of the crop by creating a system for full use of the farm crop.

The writer pvhramani has created one product from sawdust and grass other than the main product of his model banana plantation.

That is a table.

The material for the table would appear to be also suitable for toy production.

Toy production is recommended since there is an assured expanding market for toys since the world population is increasing, and children require toys to develop mentally, if not pass the time, period.

The reliance on oil for plastic toys, and lead paint for decorating wooden toys makes biomass fiber and polymer toys attractive, if they are in-fact safer to young children.

Standardization has been long recognized as a hallmark of success for global businesses. The simplest toys are round balls for instance. A soccer ball is harder to make than a marble for instance.

Making Barbie out of biomass would be a coup.

There are balls and then dolls, is my toy point, if the banana price is down.

So there is a prospect for the farm to support more people if a value added product is uniformly produced and sold made from the chaff of bananas, rice, corn, potatoes, apples or oranges.

The Diagram of pvhramani, would achieve more utility if for instance the process and system spun from each titled flow step was further defined and titled.

What and how do you handle the Nitrogen Fertilizer for instance, what about grey water?

What is the ideal infrastructure of water and electricity distribution that will allow for more people than the land could normally provide for?

What crop is it in fact that will grow everywhere humans can live?

Is it the potato?

Should we not then first make our system work for the potato?

Is this blog still active?

It seemed to me, given that this has evolved from a web-based collaboration, that its first "product" could be a web based tool. How do you get from a generic blueprint for a 100% zero waste, low carbon, whole farm system to something that works in Bangalore or Bahrain, Birmingham or Burma?

It must be possible to put all the climate and crop variables into a smart tool that comes up with options?

Rick's question is excellent and highly relevant.

Let us understand certain fundamentals:

MAP 1

if this is not clearly visible download here:

http://www.adrive.com/public/52992910479e0e87c7f7e54e35edc75d1fc64d22ddf47cd144f44d833c9b2658.html

This is the map that would tell us about world vegetation. Here is another that would show how sunlight insolation is distributed over the world

MAP 2

If this is not clear download this here:

http://www.adrive.com/public/5baec32205ed15e3d9b5a5a1a0db039dc95bc2d0c452a5538c50397c9ad5adef.html

It would be noted that we could differentiate the world into FOUR Zones: The Tropics, Semi-Tropics, Temperate, and Torrid. For the time being let us not include Torrid zone in our discussions. The per annum per ha (paph) vegetation growth in the tropics would range from 50 tons to 150 + tons; thet in the semi-tropics would range from 35 tons to 75 tons; and that in temperate zone would range from 1o tons to 45 tons.

In view of the basic fact that our Pilot Project is for the underdeveloped regions of the world, majority of which lie in the tropics, we shall have the First Pilot Plant to answer the Tropical based situations. With this in mind, our average paph would be initially considered 60 tons, and all our designs would be based on that yardstick.

Such a broad and average design criterion would allow us to have "universal" designs which could be used in most tropical situations, with only small modifications for certain "area specific" vegetation and systems.

The same would hold good for the solar insolation values too.

As yet we have not concluded and defined all the the initial parameters on which to work and design our Pilot Project, as the variables involved are far too many, each of which would need to be carefully considered..and some may have to "traded off" toward ultiamte optimization...in terms of materials, energy, local labor, skills, and other related criteria.

All these would call for very high creativity and technical design skills, and that in fact is the reason for this apparent initial delays...but these are NOT delays...

We need engineer Volunteers to come forward and interact with us make all these happen

If a smart tool could be devised for farmers, it would begin with a GPS location of their farm, which could link with a whole range of databases, climate change scenarios, rainfall scenarios, crop and biomass databases etc (the IPCC climate scenarios for instance). Given that this would only be a "model" and that the GIGO principle (Garbage in, Garbage out) applies, APIX could still be useful if it identifies the best biomass growing and processing opportunity for farmers in any location, with the bio-digestion and renewable energy options of APIX as an add-on. If you grow x, then you could do y with the husks and so on,

However, the fact that the US and China have just signed an MOU on biofuels and part of the deal is to jointly implement a "biomass index" for the region ("Establishment of the methodology and index system for a biomass resource assessment suitable for conditions in both countries, and the formulation of a united assessment standard") this suggests that there is no biomass database yet
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/us-and-china-in.html#more

It must be possible to integrate all these current and imminent databases, but perhaps no-one has considered farmers as potential end users? Insurance companies in the UK buy software that allows them instant Flood-risk assessment the moment they key in the postcode of a property. What we are talking about is a risk/opportunity assessment of any landholding and its insurance potential. Micro-credit for farmers to access the Apix technology could link to micro-insurance policies. This is an area where mutual and co-operative insurers are market leaders in Africa and Asia (sorry to keep banging on about this, the links are there but the wheels in my brain turn slowly...)

Many of what Rick mentions/ points out are pertinent issues.

However, there are certain unique aspects that need to be noted as far as APIX project is concerned:

1. Hitherto when we talk of Biomass, we specifically point ONLY to those resources generated through agricultural and plantation operations (including dairy farming, poultry ...). But we define APIX as an all-encompassing inter-connected and interrelated conversion process, wherein the entire biomass systems in an ecological surroundings (both agriculture and non-agriculture systems) are recycled without detriment to the environment. The resultant integrated techno-economic process system would involve food processing, engineered products, alternate petrochemicals, alternate energy and biofertilizers, creating Sustainable all round development in the society.

2. These APIX processes are such that irrespective of whether there is any intensive or extensive cultivation in any farming, the end products would be of "high value" and prime needs. Further, except for the fact that there could be variations in the per annum per ha (paph) vegetation growth from region to region (please see thread 3 above), there would not be much impact due to seasonal climatic "accidents" such as tornadoes or other weather calamities. For, the inputs in the APIX systems are not only the agrowastes and other agro-resources, but also the varied systems of all other vegetation/ plant categories that grow naturally in any ecological surroundings. This fact is understood from certain illustrations below:

This picture shows the entry point that takes us to a typical village in a southern state in India

This picture shows the profuse green vegetation that are considered weeds by the farmers, and growing almost every where in the same village non-farm areas

This picture shows the profusely growing weed-grasses vegetating in almost all home surroundings as well as in every place where some sunlight and growing space are available. In the village under study the vegetation growth (non-farm) was estimated to be over 60 tons paph. That each and every gram of these green resources are of great value could be understood when we note that exquisite and extremely useful "high value" products could be produced using these.

The pedestal tables shown in the last illustration above are produced using the "grass clippings" and other wood wastes that we could "pluck" from around the village areas. many other utility products such as: partition boards, molded doors, molded flooring, wall and floor tiles, roofing sheets ... are being developed.

3. A major factor that would be our "guiding principle" in APIX program would be that practical "problem solving", within the local systems and without resorting to unnecessary "hybridization", would precede over sophistication. Mass production does not mean producing huge quantity of goods to be consumed by a minority, at the expense of the majority. Instead, production technology would be remodeled to create "equitable distribution" of materials, energy and products/ services. In the example of the Table above the 'production group module' consists of three persons, who would use simple implements (no electricity) and sunlight, to produce about ten pieces per day. Twenty such modules would produce 200 pieces per day, valued $4, 000. This would give jobs to 60 local people, and if the products and marketing are there to support (for which too the manpower would be from Local resources), the said 60 people would have "full time" work for 300 days in an year. At the moment, in almost all such villages there would be hardly 100 to 150 work days in one year, and the wages would be so low as to be within $400 per person in a whole year.

In what manner INVESTORS, INSURERS, and other business groups look at these would depend on correct appraisals and understanding of the whole themes in APIX. And, our endeavor here would be to plan, organize, design, construct and execute the project...for which we need HUMAN support immediately

A certain percentage of people put a higher value on "green" products. This could be a big help in marketing. A tag explaining the green factors could help in sales.

The recent fires in California demonstrate that harvesting of weeds is very needed for fire control in dry areas. This should be mandated around populated areas subject to wildfires. California government(s) have ignored this for many years. Thus every few years, the same areas have terrible wildfires. This is then viewed with alarm for a few months, and forgotten.

Cellulose pellets or briquettes could solve all of the heating needs of the world, thus freeing up petroleum for other uses. They could also be used for electrical generation. Gasification technology would help avoid the potential air pollution. Ash could be used for soil amendment.

One very important factor is left off of these "fundamentals" and charts. The vegetation growth is greatly influenced by soil moisture, too. On average, rainfall amounts below 10 inches per annum is considered desert and below 20 inches per annum is not conducive to grasslands and grain production.

As I pointed out a little earlier, one more major source of biomass is the oceans. In fact, with the land mass of earth accounting for just ¼ of the earth's surface and with than ½ of that land surface really being suitable for sustained human and animal food production, it makes the problems of recycling waste even more critical. It become a problem, however, that to replace fossil fuels to reduce the carbon input to the atmosphere with biomass generated fuels with farming and community wastes generated fuels a stopgap measure at best. Other sources of biomass and energy will need to be found.

The fishing industry is flourishing to the point that some ocean fish populations are becoming endangered and many are turning to fish farming in an effort to supply the human protein food necessary to sustain human life needs. Yet, still, thousands starve. Not only does our oceans represent ¾ of the earths surface, it is not two dimensional as is the land mass, it is three dimensional to the depth of sunlight penetration into the water, about 10 meters. The potential for managed ocean farming in enormous. Also, the technology for managed ocean farming is available but, by far, underutilized.

I propose that we take this into consideration as we engineer APIX. We will have it in our power to suggest ways to improve the economies of this earth in more ways than ever as we make an effort to improve the quality of the air, water, and land we live upon. At least we are thinking about it and we are recognizing that the "they" in "They aught to do something about it." is really "us". "We are trying to do something about it."

World wide we will encounter many different local requirements.

APIX should not rely on one set of designs, the APIX Group will be a organization & process to identify & develop local resources. Using a open source format to gather & disseminate the technologies, structures & methods of sustainable development, as it relates to biomass in its many forms.

that is true, however, the three I listed are universal, those not listed will take in other formats. In fact, the bio-digestion, module 1, should have three cases listed in the process flow sheet, case one for individual, case two for pilot, and cast three for full 1.000 ac unit. Module two and later need only case two and three listed and also they will indicate the geographic modifications as required. The use of module design within the project allows for adaptation.

You are correct. The basic design(s) will be mostly the same.

Local variations will be documented & compiled into a database. Variations will include materials, construction techniques, operational & labor relations. I'm sure you've seen the practical innovations end-users make to many designs. We can harness the practical skills posessed by the local communites, to ease subsequent implementations.

In practical terms, is what we are looking at a dedicated APIX website - linking to the CR4 technology forums - where designs, modifications and construction manuals are developed and made accessible for free? That way all contributors would feel ownership of the project, it would be iterative, ongoing and function like a problem-based-learning project? Could it look something like a wiki for sustainable engineering products but with self-build manuals? This will impact on the kind of organisational structure Hari is proposing. If the APIX IP is open source the only expense is the web site and some legal protection against any contributors submitting protected material (unwittingly). Implementing and building APIX plants in different locations is another story, as is marketing whatever outputs are produced. Whole range of options there, but keeping the IP open source, scientifically objective and un-owned seems key.

I think that projects such as Apix have a built in attractiveness to environmentalists. It might be possible to make a profit from visitors, and overniters. Also students who might want to work and learn during vacations from school.

HARI,

If what you are suggesting is that APIX is a future-proof farm-industry proposal flexible enough to accommodate all and any biomass feedstocks, and that changes in climate and rainfall will have negligible effect, it's even better than I originally thought.

Rick

This is the way APIX is being developed and our attempt is to go about these actions not based on any dogmas, band-wagon ideas, galbraithian theorem about "creating needs"... but we would go by Local wisdom, local resources, local people and UNIVERSAL SCIENCE

But we now NEED human support, to proceed forward

FOOT-NOTE to thread No.7

When the different biomass systems are recycled through the sludge fertilizer in the Agro-Biogenic system, the greatest advantage is that rotation of crops would not be needed in farming

I own a domain, www.tke-haaai.org, which I have allowed to expire. I have replaced the domain with www.chtank.org and moved my host account from an expensive business account to a less expensive personal account. I plan to dedicate this domain to all of my engineering projects which at this time includes My Earthbound Space Station and the APIX project. Since I am fairly well proficient with HTML, I will continue to do the HTML work for both projects and the modules we develop for APIX. Notice that the APIX project web site will be in book form similar to my own personal web site. This will allow the establishment of module groupings to follow Dependant upon one's location, skills, and climate conditions.

I think on a smaller scale. Design a simple, locally produced system. We help the local farmer better his life. Make the plans available to the right UN agency and see if they want to fund it. As time passes, we tinker with the design to meet local conditions. As my father would say, "don't just sit there, do something".

I'm new to the blog, can we talk on one location unless a private message is needed?

James

Hello Friends ...

Greetings and Best Wishes for the New Year

After two weeks of hectic "personal works", I am back at my desk! In the meanwhile, I see an enormous volume of discussion matters that have "criss-crossed" on various issues.

In this my objective is to present certain inferences based on "ground-level" studies made in one of the most affected Farm regions in India, where over 5000 farmers had committed suicides in the last three years due to farm-based economic crises. The place/ region is called Wayanad in the southern Indian state of Kerala (approximate location: 76.5 E and 11.5 N). The study was directed to assess a possible Economic input-output analyses. The map below shows the location:

Figure1. Location of APIX Plant study

The map may be downloaded here for better clarity:

http://www.adrive.com/public/f08c620110b5eaff005494093011a7f6dd237c8e586b56214ba8ba78b898b143.html

The study was made in an area of 1000 ha, where the farm community own average about 1.5 ha to 2 ha per farm ... The crops included Coconuts, Pepper, Jackfruits, Coffee, Vegetables, Areca nuts and a few other crops. Also included were felled trees, shade tree clippings, grass clippings and other weeds. It was observed that the optimum economic worth in a 1000 ha farm area here were about $4 million, in current operations. But, if we create APIX systems in the same area, the economic worth of products would reach about $35 million (nearly NINE-fold increase). The illustration below shows schematic analyses:

Figure2. APIX set up in 1000 ha Mixed Farmland

The illustration could be downloaded from here:

http://www.adrive.com/public/995d41e2b7737bc30f5c15f57fef4f2f049681f2040ed4a07ea938ddb81c7429.html

The farmlands in the current location are called mixed farms, as a set of crops are grown in the area, based on the local climatic and soil systems.

It is proposed that such studies be made in the various farmlands across many more regions so that we could arrive at certain definite conclusions on the Techno-Economic aspects of APIX Pilot plant, to be followed by "full-fledged" 1000 ha systems

Hari,

Welcome back to this APIX world, it is good to have our leader back. I know that family comes first and foremost in any good man's world. I pray that your daughter is well set in her new profession and her home life is secure, safe, and comfortable.

I have studied you comments in the above issue and find them most enlightening. I certainly do have some positive input to this but still must wait until my computer situation is resolved. Due to some financial considerations, I cannot make the repairs to my primary computer as I had planned, however, a friend is sending me a fully operational computer that I hope to be able to use for our purposes. He is also including a Linux operating system called Tiny, which I will install on this old Dell machine I am using at this time. My primary machine requires a new Motherboard, Processor, Ram which I cannot afford to purchase until certain other expenses have been paid.

As soon as I am able, I will upgrade the APIX web page to include the Mission and Goals and this study. Each will have its own link to the overall web page with an introduction to APIX being the index page. I have established an new (for me) domain, http://chtank.org, which will in time have the sub-domains of http://apix.chtank.org and http://homepower.chtank.org. Thus, all my non-profit work will be on this domain. I could have used a different domain name, but since I have several non-profit projects, I choose to lump them all under the chtank.org as sub domains; apix, homepower, deepspace and possible alien reports (a science fiction novel which is also a study in colonizing space). I have to wait until I have a proper computer for this, however, This old Dell simply cannot to the job.

Yours,

Hari, as we ponder your last entry, let us ponder this, too: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071220152427.htm
This could actually be used to generate electric power and the usable Methane gas at the same time. Then the Methane gas can be used for multiple purposes including generating still more electric power. Keep in mind that the most useful of al sources of energy (beyond food) is electricity.

Hi chtank

... So nice of you to have expressed personal sentiments

While acknowledging the importance of energy as being of next only to food, we need to understand certain "facts of life" at the small farm community levels. This aspect would be exemplified by an actual "story" of a farmer in the location mentioned in thread 16 above: Wayanad in the southern Indian state of Kerala.

This story is that of CHACKO (name changed) who has a mixed farm operation in Wayanad ... in about 1 ha land owned by him. His annual gross income is about $3000. However, after paying for labor, fertilizer, and other infrastructure needs (including electricity), his gross margin (before finance costs and other overheads) is just about $1200. With this paltry amount he has to support a family of Five (himself and wife; his two children and an old mother). Further, he is indebted to the local Cooperative (Government controlled) Bank and a few private money-lenders, to an extent of about $1000 + interests (mounting at about 2% per month).

That Chacko is in a miserable economic state, not even capable of helping himself and family with the basic necessities such as food, medicine and shelter is now evident. Sending his children to school for their education is next to impossible! This, in fact, is the REALITY in such farmlands across over 600, 000 villages in India ... and perhaps in many thousands of such villages all over the tropics (Africa, East Asia, Latin America ...). The situation cannot and will not improve through any sort of AID or DOLES (Government supported or otherwise), but the only method IS to empower the local farm community through Innovative and High-productive economic activities that generate INCOME for the local people. This needs that APIX would have to be a self sustaining economic activity that not only creates value through Goods etc, but every one involved (the local beneficiaries) would HAVE to EARN better livelihood incomes.

That then is necessary and possible through APIX systems. For example, if APIX systems are set up in Wayand, Chacko would earn not less than $25, 000 to $30, 000 (an increment of eight to ten fold)

Thus, we need to keep these "down-to-earth" facts in our mind, when designing/ devising various engineering systems that are to finally "make APIX happen"

Also, please concider dsl linux (damn small linux) for old computers to bring them back to life. I tried tiny on a computer once and it didnt work. DSL has worked for me on several computers. It is very very fast. And you can boot it from the cd too. For a really old computer, you might have to download an older version. I have guests at the moment who are using a toshiba laptop that my girlfriend salvaged from the garbage pile when she moved office. XP was inoperable on it so I wiped it and put ubuntu and dsl on it. Both work but they use ubuntu because I have forgotten the paswords for the dsl partition. They mostly use it for internet and photos. Brian White

Gaiatechnician,

I tried both SAM and TinyMe on the IBM PIII with 256 ram on a 10 gig HD. Although both were nice, TinyMe being better than SAM, I woulnd up installing PCLinuxOS on the machine. It works like a dream. I put root on 4 gig, swap on 700+ meg, and home on 5 gig to use up the drive's free space. I had no problems at all, with the PCLOS install or opperation but was suing it as a test bed only, while I built my new AMD 64 X2 dual core with 2 gig ram. The work is complete and this new machine is running like a charm on PCLinuxOS-2007. Of course, I did to the upgrade as soon as teh OS was running, using Synaptic, some 555+ files to upgrade and then more files, to install, including bluefish, blender, abiword with plugins, QCad, inkscape, Xara Xtreme and others. I gave up using M$ Windows a year ago, it was getting way to expensive and the OS is way too unstable, with repairs needed about every six months. I have had not problems with Linux, my problems are with some hardware now. After all, HD's do fail and one MB failed.

CONSOLOIDATING THOUGHTS AND ACTION PLANS:

It is felt that by now all Members would have studied and assimilated the concept of APIX in terms of materials/ resources and operational needs. We shall sum up/ recollect the salient aspects once again:

1. The basic concept of BIOMASS CONVERSION TECHNOLOGY is as per the illustration, which may be once again seen in this download:

http://www.adrive.com/public/2cdaaca7f635e87ff6b3ea249b6179cfbfd85f9a83847f214e81e616ad1392c0.html

2. A "full scale" study and analysis had been made in Wayanad area of Kerala State in Southern India, as seen in the illustration:

http://www.adrive.com/public/995d41e2b7737bc30f5c15f57fef4f2f049681f2040ed4a07ea938ddb81c7429.html

3. While the study conducted and presented as in 2 above is for a "full-fledged" APIX plant that would be a TOTAL self sustaining arrangement involving the whole gamut of operations and systems (as presented in our initial Blog entry: APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Recycling Wastes - Mission and Goals) ... the smaller operational systems for "table Moldings" presented in Thread 5 above could be a starting point for initial design. The APIX-Pilot could be based on either of these (see Goals in our initial Blog entry)

4. The prime objective of APIX set up would be to create enhanced livelihood environments in village areas of underdeveloped regions of the world. As studies have been made by this writer within India, all models are based on those studies, which may be extrapolated to other areas too. The said enhanced livelihood conditions are expected to be created through both "value for materials" and value for work. For example, any agrowaste could be offered $40 per Ton, delivered to work site (the "standard" to be prescribed as per specific agrowaste system needs). And, unskilled/ semi-skilled worker wages are to be @ $3 to $4 per day (8 hrs work) ... the current "best" average in Indian villages. (NOTE: When we say "best" it means the "higher" values that are prevalent; there are many villages where the worker wages are not even $1 per day!)

5. It should be emphasized here that our initial technical inputs would be based on available technologies that have been proven over the years, without any radical changes. For example, although various sophisticated technologies and systems are being developed in recent times in the field of "energy cells", we shall try and restrict our immediate attention to the "time-tested" IC engines or Gas Turbines ... taking due care to have the BEST possible efficiencies in energy utilization and "recovery". This does NOT mean that we would not open ourselves to "latest" engineering systems; but any final engineered system would have to take into account the basic fact on the non availability of high skilled personnel in the villages where we plan to set up APIX projects. In this connection we also need to consider the fact that the local infrastructure (available work-shop facilities for tooling) systems are not of the highest standards.

It is suggested that we may carefully study and understand our GOALS and MISSION Objectives, and attempt to come up with a "consensus" on the following:

• An Organizational arrangement for our OPEN Source Engineering Company (Please recall the APEX Group idea presented in our earlier Discussion threads)
• "Enrolling" more members in our group ... every one being "active"
  
• Registration and other legalities connected with the said organizational set up
• Initial Funding methods
• Initial Pilot Plant design to be selected
• Initial area/ region to be selected for the first Pilot project
• A possible "time-bound" program to be chalked out, with one person as "leader" to "get things done" in each such program sub-group.
• Defining the various operational needs and organizing ourselves to carry forward with "time-bound" operations.

It is appealed to "chtank" to initiate these matters and to coordinate the "functioning" of the same.

Once we are through with these basics, we could get down to the "brass-tack" design work.

Awaiting comments and actions immediately from all members

I follow your thought process.

James

Happy new year Hari - I understand the aim of APIX is to maximise economic opportunity for impoverished farmers in developing countries. Could it not also work everywhere else at the same time? I think you could get a grass roots movement here with "pilots" in many countries - all interacting, accelerating technologies and twinning with one another. European farmers face the phasing out of subsidies in the next 5-10 years and need to farm more flexibly and with greater sensitivity to changing markets. An APIX modular system could be invaluable if it allows outputs to be adjusted as prices and markets change. A software programme could enable farmers to see at a glance what their biomass feedstocks could profitably convert to. The more systems that are up and working, the better the data feedback, the better the service.

Hello Rick

Thank you for your New Year Greetings, and wish the same to you

1. Your thoughts on the APIX being extrapolated to every other region, irrespective of the economic "prosperity" of the region, is well taken...and our APIX program is capable of achieving that.

2. When you note the "problem" of negative effects of "subsidies", it is to be noted that APIX would not be affected by such Government interventions, as we work on the ENTIRE RENEWABLE RESOURCES ... not merely the 3% to 7% materials, which form the actual Crops. In fact, when APIX comes into "full bloom", the present idea on Food costs would become a thing of the past. You could once again study the APIX system proposed in the Wayanad area (see Thread 16) and note that the economic benefit of APIX enhances values additions to nearly ten-fold, with respect to the original agri-businesses without APIX

3. As suggested by you, we may also arrive at certain standardization software, which would enable the farm community to "decide" on actual conversions. Here again, as my experiences are based on Indian context, I can present the same. For example, there are times when heavy floods and tornadoes destroy crops. At these times, the farmers could resort to utilization of the entire agrowastes (the fibrous portions) into Composite conversions ... creating products such as wood substitutes, alternate engineered structural systems and modular furniture/ housing systems.

It may also be noted that the presentations here are only representative and do not form sacrosanct themes. When we say, for example, that Tables/ Chairs could be manufactured, it does not mean other products (such as Tiles, Roofing, Flooring, Boat Structures, Auto Bodies....) could not be made.

For me the main question is: How to set it up so that the results are in benefit of the simple poor people and not to enlarge the wealth of the rich?

There are some organisations in the world that have experience with this, recently the founder of a Bangladeshi organisation has received a Nobel price for the way he supported local small communities.

I feel that we have to contact those people and see how we can be of help for them: The APIX project is a nice thing but is the local community really waiting on this? If every village in southern india starts to make tables there is another problem

What we need is a standing organisation which may need the help of Environmental Engaged Engineers (E³) to realize what they need.

It could be that they have a pile of coconut shells that they burn every day, and they buy fuel to run the engine that makes the electricity for their coconut processing plant. By simple changes and installations we could offer them electricity form the burning shells, the money to realise it could be organised by those who are experienced in this domain. (typical engineers are bad financial guys, they would be much richer if they were better in it)

The article on the microbiological fuel cell contains a name of a Bangladeshi: Iqbal Quadir and the researcher of Harvard is Peter Girguis, His email can be trace through Harvard, he could guide us to Mr. Quadir.

When Hari first proposed the APIX project to me some time back, I quickly jumped on the band wagon. It seemed to me that Hari was proposing exactly what I had proposed with My Earthbound Space Station. However, my approach is a little different and my target audience is different. Also, my goal was to develop a economically practical alternative to fossil fuels. This is primarily to allow the public in the USA to find a way to veto the president and congress veto of all the treaties aimed at correcting the abuses that have lead to polluting this earth. This is one of the nice things about being an American, regardless of the treatment of the Dixie Chicks, we do have the right to disagree with our government's actions or lack of action. Pollution is a long standing thorn in the side of many Americans.

My career was spent engineering in the petrochemical industry designing onshore and offshore refineries, chemical plants, power plants, and fossil carbon gathering facilities. I reached the level of proficiency in my career to be labeled a "Principle" with the power and petrochemical subsidiary, SIP, of one of the largest and well know engineering corporations, Parson's Engineering. I am now retired since April 1, 1998, April Fools Day. The significance of which escapes me.

IN my article, My Earthbound Space Station, I had just reached the place where I was to discuss using the household wastes, yard and garden wastes, animal wastes, and farming residues for energy, when Hari and I met and became brothers in mind. I plan to develop anaerobic digestion and syn-gas gasification as a fuel source for solid oxide fuel cells. The processes of the APIX project fit very nicely into this schema. Of course, my approach to the systems is a bit more expensive than is Hari's, with my target price being in the range of $100,000 US, but I see no reason that modules cannot be developed to meet the requirements of 100 ha to 1,000 ha farming co-operatives, privately or publicly funded, at a far less price tag. In all cases,the primary energy requirement for further development is electrical. The secondary requirement would be liquid fuel for the engines to pull the plow that is forged from the sword. This is exactly why I am so insistent that we begin the development of the anaerobic and aerobic digestion process as modules as soon as we can. These are well documented processes and there are many very economical schemes available for our purposes. There is little or no proprietary systems to delay our action and there is the extreme need to for us to begin to replace fossil fuels as our primary source of energy. Global Warming is a fact, our ice caps and glaciers are melting and all our sea coasts, some of the poorest and most vulnerable peoples, are becoming increasingly threatened with floods. Now is the time to act.

I will leave it to you as to how you organize, I am a part of it, but I wish to make the whole of our work, including My Earthbound Space Station, a part of the solution available for every citizen of this Earth. I see it as a move toward removing one of the primary causes of war as well. Greed, be it for power or wealth, is a terrible fault of us all.

A link of interest

http://www.csengin.org/index.html

Hello Friends

Please study the following and do come back with all your thoughts and feed-back

A PRACTICAL WASTE CONVERSION PROBLEM/ PROJECT

Our main thrust and Objectives "circle" around the central theme of Sustainable Village Development - with the greatest thrust on those villages in the "under-developed" and developing countries. Now, as already presented through certain personal mailing to our "main Members", we have a PRACTICAL problem posed for WASTE CONVERSION.

The idea was triggered when the Security and Facilities Manager of one IT industrial unit (in the "Electronics" City of Bangalore) had a casual discussion on how they were "disposing off" the various wastes generated in their production unit. The existing scheme is as follows:

1. The Human Toilet wastes are "treated' in the regular "aerobic sewage treatment" system and the sludge is passed out into the Corporation treated "common" sewage conduit. The "water" that is in excess is further treated and reused in the lawns/ gardens of the unit

2. There are various Toxic (chemicals/ metals/ oxides ... etc), which are supplied to contractors who collect these. What they do with these toxic materials is NOT known, except that almost all "re-processors" (barring a couple of organized re-processors in Bangalore) have no scientific systems to avoid environmental damages! (we shall not process/ re-process these toxic materials)

3. There are other wastes such as: Paper, Wood pallets, Wood Crates, Paper Cartons, Cardboard Boxes, Plastic bags, Plastic moldings ...etc, which are now being collected by scrap vendors.

4. The following approximate WASTES are seen to be generated PER DAY in the said unit (total employees = 1295 personnel, working THREE shifts; effective 300 days):

# Human toilet wastes ................... 850 Kg (40% solids)

# Food wastes ............................... 100 Kg (40% solids)

# Water used/ (wasted!) ................ 56, 750 L

# garden/ Vegetation wastes ......... 5 Kg (40% solids)

# Other Non-toxic and non-metals .. 500 Kg

HOW WE MAY GO ABOUT

Members are already aware of the two "written" presentations made {i. Zero-Waste Zero-Carbon Business Model (ZW-ZC-BM); ii. Sketch Proposal for Waste Conversions}. And some discussions are also under way, through "group mailings".

It is felt that our "solution" could be a TWO-PRONGED ATTACK", to be carried out in Two Phases.

Phase-1 would be the Pilot Plant (that would be handling ONLY the discharges/ wastes of this unit);

Phase-2 would be the TOTAL INDUSTRIAL GROUP PLANT, that would involve about 100+ units (with direct employment of about 75, 000 personnel) situated in the "Electronics City", Bangalore.

The "two-pronged attack" is as follows:

(a) The entire human/ organic / vegetation wastes would be converted into methane gas/ chemicals/ bio-fertilizers, to be used for Village development (there are a couple of "dilapidated villages" surrounding the Electronics city!

(b) The Conversion of Non-metallic and non-toxic Organic/ Inorganic materials (paper, plastics, wood etc) to WOOD SUBSTITUTES would be done at the villages, where it is estimated that 21 Modules of THREE/ FOUR Personnel per module, could convert about 3, 850 tons wastes (based on wastes in 100+ units) into about 148, 000 Boards (taken as 12 mm Boards 2.44 m x 1.22 m size, for computation purpose) ... working single shift for 300 days a year. These products could have values of about US $2.96 Million! Over 200 local village personnel would have 300 days "full time" jobs.

CERTAIN QUESTIONS NEEDING ANSWERS FOR THE PILOT PLANT

1. The solids content of the human/ food/ vegetation waste + water wastes is estimated to be about 0.66%. The normal minimum solids content for Anaerobic conversion of Organic wastes into methane gas/ biogas is about 7% (ten times that we have at hand). How do we convert this "low solids" sludge into biogas? Are there any previous experiences at the world level? Or, would it be mandatory for us to first study and develop a process at Lab level?
2. In India, there are certain "negative" feelings/ psychology in using "treated" water/ systems, when it comes to human wastes. This calls for the Pilot Plant to be set up at the industrial unit premises, which could be later seen and fully observed by the villagers and the village "elders", before the "bigger" plans are programmed. However, questions about "proof of the concept" may come. How do we overcome this problem?
3. The approximate estimated project Costs are as follows (Phase-1):
1. Preliminary/ feasibility studies ..................... Rs.15 lakhs (US $38, 265)
2. Design work .............................................. Rs.25 lakhs (US $63, 775)
3. Plant and other Auxiliaries .......................... Rs.150 lakhs (US $382, 650)
4. Supervision/ other contingencies (@15%) ... Rs.28.5 lakhs (US $72, 705) TOTAL ESTIMATED PROJECT COST ................... US $557, 395 (Rs.218.5 lakhs) ESTIMATED VALUES ................................ US $294, 643 (Rs.115.45 lakhs) The question: How would we FUND the project? And, how does the economics work out? The following benefits are seen: a. There would be no need for sewage or solids disposal b. Water usage would be minimal c. Energy for Cooking or part of the energy for heating/ cooling could be from the recycled system d. Non-toxic and non-metal systems would be completely recycled into value added products, that would not attract any legislative penalty for waste disposals e. Share holders, Working personnel, Local community and environment would be immensely benefited through better "GREEN" management f. The industry would also be involved DIRECTLY in SUSTAINABLE VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, for which any village/ villages could be selected. It is to be noted that there are no "doles" or "give-aways" in this Sustainability project; the entire system works on the principle of Business Economics, where both the Industry and the Village people would gain immensely. g. The industry would have the possibility to claim CARBON CREDITS, and to have the products "certified" as GREEN.

Is the 56'750L's [water] per day?

which comes out to 44L per employee per day, this would seem to indicate more than just minor hand washing.

Is part of the usage for washing of circuit boards and components?

Hello friends

Garth's doubts:

1. The data of Water used in the visited unit is that consumed per day

2. We did not study how the water is being consumed/ used.

This post would present a highly INNOVATIVE theme for converting the Heat energy of methane gas burning; the sketch of the scheme is presented here:

http://www.adrive.com/public/a8aa0bd35bf95981a6b717b81d02704e882652a519ee7656378935d3ce851eec.html

In an earlier presentation through personal mailings we had already seen the schematic of the methane Gas generator design with some of the other appurtenances:

http://www.adrive.com/public/e0bb0331e0b4d853d1eed4e01e5c19e2b397e2dc1038216ae3dbb00d743b26df.html

It is requested and suggested that every member may look at these in a "critique" style and try to come out with ones own ideas and engineering possibilities.

An Observation:

It is heartening to note that most members are trying to look at how the project may be practically carried forward (such as using PERT, CPM, OR etc). At this moment these things are being kept (purposefully) away from my mind, as I felt the NEED to concentrate on the DESIGN aspects and other material systems that would make up the Engineering systems. But the members are requested to continue to think and ACT on such Project Implementation aspects too.

Best wishes, and looking forward to see more INPUTS on these matters, presented here

hari

Hello Friends

An idea for a methane Gas generator Design system has been presented in the open forum here:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/181820/Re-Anaerobic-Methane-Gas-Using-Low-Solids-System

members

are requested to study the same and make comments/ suggestions...for refinement and modifications etc

Regards

hari

Hi ronwagn

Your statement: "I think that projects such as Apix have a built in attractiveness to environmentalists. It might be possible to make a profit from visitors, and overniters. Also students who might want to work and learn during vacations from school." ... is interesting and very true; but I would say there is the "sameness" in that we all go by precedents and apparently get influenced by a sort of "bandwagon" character. We tend to think on the basis of what "every one else thinks" ... somehow not coming up with "out-of-the-box" solutions, which alone could ultimately solve society's complex problems.

APIX has been conceived differently, in that the techno-commercial activities generated through the systems in APIX would be Self Sustainable and Self Perpetuating, without unduly destroying the natural systems/ environment. It is planned to be organized in such a manner that the resultant activities form ALTERNATE ECONOMIC programs. It would NOT be looking merely at the present day "bandwagons" such as Bio-fuels, Green systems, Global heating, Pollution ... etc, but the main Objective/ Goal is to apply science, technology and engineering toward attempting to SOLVE at least some of the socio-economic problems of the 3 billion downtrodden people (now earning less than US $2 per day), who are practically relegated to less than ordinary humans in any plan of human actions ... whether it be the UN Millennium Development Goals or Poverty alleviation programs of various Governments.

However, without pooh-poohing any of these programs that are always planned for their benefits (and with tremendous sincerity), APIX would attempt to stay within and without (including the paradigms of the Environmentalists)

And in order that these are finally achieved, we NEED the active support by way of involvement (through thought and actions) of every one who FEELS for and WISHES real Sustainable Development. Do please also see this Post:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/150241

Please do note that your idea is highly appreciated and well taken

Best wishes and regards

pvhramani (hari)

Hi Friends

This is a continuation, explaining certain "basics", of the thread 27 above. These "clarifications" ARE needed in view of the "entry" of various NEW members, most of whom would not have had the time to read through the various threads (many technical details) presented, ever since the FIRST Discussions on Wastes was begun on November 11, 2007. In fact, these NEW members might not be aware on HOW this APIX-SEP Group was formed. Reading through the thread in Wastes would convince each one of them that APIX-SEP had the beginning in CR4 through the said Discussion threads.

1. All of us may note that we are NOT talking about any NEW Technologies, for Anaerobic methane Gas generation and conversions that we are planning have been around (and well documented) for over 50 years now. Further, the subject of ADVANCED COMPOSITES, using Natural Fibers, is also well documented; and this writer too has done much works for well over 15 years - now culminating in the JEC International - 2008 Award for Environmentally benign Composites. It may also be noted that many Bench-level Developments and "small lab-level" trials" have been undertaken by the writer, in Anaerobic Digestion systems too, apart from having been part of designing a few such systems at house-hold levels, way back in the late Seventies.

2. Here is an excellent site on Anaerobic Digestion:

http://bio.yellowfive.co.uk/definition_energy.aspx

.... more like these are also available on the net. But the writer found THIS particular site to be more in unison with OUR present problem - that of the IT Industry here in Bangalore, India

3. A note on Agro-Renewables based Composites:

(a) Any Material that has "cellulose" systems in it could be converted into Thermoset polymer based Composites; the materials include, among others, Wood/ sawdust, paper, cloth, cardboard etc. A few thermoplastics, such as polythene bags, could also be added in this composite (as long as the plastics are within about 7% to 8% by weight). A few examples of such products are shown below:

In this connection, the writer has found, through various product developments, that every Kg of dried fibrous agrowastes/ paper/ cloth could be converted into 1.4 Kg to 1.6 Kg of FINISHED Goods. And, it is also noted that value additions could be as much as TEN to Fifteen times!

4. It may be noted that, in our attempts to develop APIX-SEP systems we would not only NEED various inputs from all the Members, but we also would have to explore the possibilities of collaborating with various national/ international agencies/ institutions/ groups toward successfully bringing out the themes that we all consider dear to us.

5. However, we shall have ONE MAIN Objective, in all these: that of orienting all our works toward creating ENGINEERED SOLUTIONS FOR SUSTAINABLE VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, with greater thrust on those in the less developed areas of the world.

Best wishes

pvhramani (Hari)

Hi friends!

here is some interesting Engineered systems which would "fall in line" with our own (APIX-SEP) thoughts and actions

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/minisite/SustainableResource/index.html

Best wishes

pvhramani

Please check the mechanical mathematician, the pulser pump and the tracking solar accumulator project on the internet. These could be part of your grand system and are all open source projects. Brian White

gaiatechnician,

Thank you, and yes, we are not ignoring solar energy. The earth will need all forms of energy in times to come. Our efforts are to use the energy available more wisely and to distribute it world wide more fairly.