Design & Analysis Software

How can anyone object to investing in the future?

People without a present will object to such investment.

The budget would not be a battle if the fools in Washington used the trillions that we have sent them with any sort of responsibility.

We absolutely must continue into space, because you either explore and expand or you die.

Dragon

How bout spending the money for space exploration but tag 60 to 75% to small business or non military war machine stock holders.

Lets face it much of our tech came from the Saturn V development. Other than how to loose cool tiles I can't think of any tech from the Shuttle that has trickled down to common use.

Odd it cost more to refit the Shuttle than build a new Saturn V each time.

How about develop a Saturn VI. A modern V. Put up the rest of the space station in one shot or go start a Moon Base.

Brad

UV, Good Answer, and an intriguing possibility.

Dragon

Wow, you must have missed it, but it is called the Ares V heavy lift vehicle. It is part of the Constellation program by NASA.

The Saturn V had a LEO lift capacity of 118,000 kg and a lunar orbit capacity of about 47,000 kg.

The Ares V will get 130,000 kg to LEO and 65,000 kg to lunar orbit.

The Shuttle can only lift 24,000 kg to LEO. The Shuttle can not get anything to lunar orbit unless it is launched from the Hollywood launch pad.

The Shuttle can not get anything to lunar orbit unless it is launched from the Hollywood launch pad.

So true but man can it move in cyberspace.

I'll have to check into the Ares V, but after: the shuttle; the Hubble; missing mars because no one could convert standard to metric and back; killing two crews of astronauts because politicians couldn't follow procedure. I'm not to sure of NASA's loyalties. They seem to take the "how long can we keep everyone out of space" direction.

And when does the Ares V start lifting? Soon I hope?

Brad

The first Ares V launch is scheduled in 10 years.

I can't wait to see it go because it will be both spectacular to watch and loud. However, I will miss the double sonic booms of the Shuttle orbiter.

Of course space is worth spending $$$$ on. The only problem is that big business does not(or won't) make money on it. At least not as much as they can in the business of war. Unless, of course, they find a plethora of minerals out there that they can mine and bring back at some high prices inorder to bankrupt us all .

Cheers

If you believe the doomsdayers...we need to find other places to live...and fast.

Funnel the cost of war elsewhere I say.

No need to look for a doomsayer.

While the geologists argue endlessly about the causes of the 3 huge extinction events, there are many times more smaller such events, and they come quite regularly.

A look around the universe says that a single planet is a poor place to survive for an extended (geological) time.

Even a stellar system is only so-so for safety, a minor bobble in a star's energy output can wipe out all of it's planets.

What may be an acceptable risk for an individual or a sub-population is unacceptable for a species.

Why not privatize space. I don't see why any government should have a monopoly on it. We've already got a start on it with the X-Prize. It was private enterprise that got people flying. There's no reason private enterprise can't do the job in space as well or maybe better than the government. The financial rewards, though small to nonexistent at first, should be huge.

You know AH, I'm 32, and I'm getting real sick of hearing how stupid my generation is from yours.

I wonder, having interacted with me on CR4, do you believe I'm "struggling with basic communication skills, an absence of critical thinking, and a strong drive toward mediocrity in achievement"?

Perhaps you are the exception that proves the rule?

We really need to open up space to business and let them launch their packages without government interference and build their own orbital space factories and establish commercial operations on the Moon. Nothing drives progress like profit.

I don't believe I am the exception. In my experience my generation is intelligent, moral, and completely disillusioned with a system that generally misrepresents the truth and consistently lies to itself to justify its own inconsistencies. But hey, I'm sure I'll understand when I'm older.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say though you did receive to good answers.

I don't get many of my posts rated good answers here. That either says something about me, or something about CR4. For instance, on a recent thread regarding warming on mars, I found the scientific paper the article was based on, read it, summarized it, and provided a link to it. That wasn't deemed a good answer and the paper and its conclusions were ignored, despite the fact it was the source of the article being discussed. Is that how your older generation demonstrates their "critical thinking"? With snide comments? Here is the thread. You take a good look as what has been marked as "good answers" on that thread and you tell me again about my generations failings.

What I do know is that in the history of the world, devaluing ones currency has only led to one result. Large disparities of wealth in the peoples of a nation has only led to one result. A nation turning away from science and technology has only led to one result.

Time after time these things have led to the collapse of strong nations. And what are we discussing right now in this thread? Cutting funding to NASA. As though no innovation or good has come from NASA. Are we really so ignorant of the multitude of satellites in orbit which provide services that we take for granted that we would imagine a space program as an extravagant expense?

I guess in the end these ideas and words matter little. People are predisposed to those things they wish to believe and no amount of evidence to the contrary will sway them.

Hey Roger Pink,

Let me try a different perspective. I agree with you, but it is up to us to change it because it will not change itself for the better when the system has been high jacked by self serving individuals and groups.

The system is set up to teach you to conform, to go with the flow, not to look for problems and fixes that others don't want fixed.

If you don't fight for your rights you don't have any.

If you don't know what your rights are you don't know what to fight for.

I'm not sympathetic to the masses, they are lazy and want to be taken care of, not to think for themselves. Americans (yes I'm one) have a bad habit of short sightedness. Space is just one example, we should already have been out there in masses.

Brad

I also read and skimmed your thread. they were so busy making jokes of global warming they seem to have missed the point.

Don't feel bad my first "blog" was ignored for the most part because I don't think they understood that gas could be replaced for approximately 16¢ a gallon. http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/15525#newcomments

So I shook my head in amazement and figured my presentation was not matched to the viewers. So I learn what works and what don't and will eventually try again.

Brad

"I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say though you did receive to good answers."

Roger,

There is no good way to simply make you understand those words written by U-V. I believe that I understand them, but to understand them requires a lot time and a lot of research that can not be summed up in a few thousand papers, let alone a few words.

The best thing I can recommend is to try to remember those words and one day you will reflect back and say, "Ah, maybe that's what it means." What I am saying is that understanding, real understanding, is many times more of a journey than simply the act of being provided the answers. I am not sure I communicated that very well, so I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Roger, Some of the people who disagree vehemently with you are just angry because their little "save the _____" project got cut and they can not understand why. They also think that advancements in science and technology are evil because they are not "natural" (and some can not understand the advancements and what they mean to them)

And before any one states that I and Roger always agree on threads: usually we do not.

However in this case we must agree to agree.

Dragon

P.S. G.A. by the way Roger.

I thought the system was bad when I was younger than you. The SDS types at college twisted everything and misrepresented the truth and lied to themselves to justify their aims. I supported Goldwater so the Lefties urinated on the door of my dorm room to show how much they were in favor of freedom of speech and opinion. Theirs, not mine.

I am now just over twice your age and I still believe in truth and justice and the American way of life based on the original intent of the Constitution. I still don't understand those who want freedom for only their views and want anyone who disagrees with them to be forced to shut up.