Electrical Components

JE in Chicago:

Football bat... soup sandwich... pimp with a lisp...

Reading your comments brings these to mind: 'the official list of most-messed up things'. Congratulations, your contribution made the all-time top 4.

Lets review some of the ground breaking work you produced that makes you stand out in a very competitive field of 'messed-up-ed-ness'.

>> 'the jobs have gone to the lowest bidder so that the people furthest removed from performing any actual physical or mental labor can haver (sic) the largest cut' <<

According to your logic, you must be getting filthy rich! You certainly avoided any mental labor when formulating this absurdity. Jobs going to the lowest bidder means that ideas on improving efficiency (which constitute 'mental labor'... just trust me on this, I know you won't go through the proof) are rewarded, and that unnecessary overhead (i.e. those expenses are not vital to the production, and the only source of revenue for those furthest removed physical or mental labor) is diminished.

You go on to bemoan that states are not know for producing certain goods.....

>> 'State to state in the US.. We've been fooled into believing that bigger is better, and nobody would say this or that 'state' make great cars or shoes... anything at all.. too bad..' <<

I know! Right? I mean why ISN'T Texas known for producing oil and bigots, or Florida known for producing Oranges and inept voters? Why isn't Philadelphia known for cheese-steak, or detroit for producing cars with technology to satisfy the nostalgic? Why isn't Nevada know for producing gambling losses, and new exciting std variants? Wisconsin cheese? Oregon/Washington technology? South Carolina, BMWs and beauty contestant who really know how to answer a question. New Mexico and Alaska, maverics????/ Thanks for pointing out this serious and well established lack of geographical distinction!

But your sage advice does not end there! No one would accuse you of being stingy with your opinions. You continue to flex your wit.....

>> 'Put a little pressure on people to be good to one another instead of only thinking about number one.. Make them think about the human condition

what manufacturing positions do still exist have largely been dumbed down and simplified to the point where it can demoralize the oh so safe employees' <<

You have really set an intricate trap in this little koan, you clever monk, you. We need to 'put a little pressure on people' to keep them from thinking only about themselves?

Mandating altruism makes any act resulting from the mandate a selfish act (for self preservation) and serves to eradicate acts of true altruism. You cryptically hint at this by vilifying manufacturers that work to produce 'oh-so-safe' working environments, or jobs for those who are not of above average I.Q.

You go on to point out things i did not even realize were a big problem. I learn something new every day!

>> ' eat from local eateries

shop from local grocers' <<

Wow, so you are telling me people are driving long distances to shop at grocers NOT in their local area?!? Why?!? Is this trendy?

What about eating from local eateries? Every time I have gone out to dine at an eatery, it has always been immediately local to the eatery in which I am dining. I'm not sure how I would dine at an eatery to which I was not local at the time. Weird.

I also find it interesting that you encourage buying from local crafts people, yet were earlier bemoaning the idea that certain states were not known for producing a certain good. If everyone is to purchase what is locally produced, how will Detroit for example come to be known for producing cars? and if everyone is going to continue your 'buy-local' scheme, what good would it do the producer to make better products? Perhaps everyone in the local detroit area needs to fill their collective yard up with cars, so that detroit can produce many more than needed... oh wait that's already been done.

With more 'outside the box" (and frankly, so far outside the box as to be at some location unfamiliar to most anyone even slightly grounded in reality.... best guess is this 'outside the box' thinking originated is some treatment regiment proscribed by a backward universe sanatorium for the chronically logical, just behind your left ear) thinking, you bring this to the forefront:

>> ' encourage them (business owners) to NOT franchise their success. Why not share the knowledge with other people to do the same?' <<

Why not, indeed.

A business owner works hard to improve a product and/or process, he should, of course, follow your advice of altruism and share his improvement with competitors, foregoing silly profit motives. What do profit motives have to do with business anyway? (Rhetorical questions... who needs'm?)

You do realize that franchising is both a very effective way of spreading process/product improvement AND that it allows local ownership and workers opportunities for reward based on superior innovation?

Aren't Mcdonald's processes more thoroughly distributed and more frequently improved than say, Joe's burger heaven?

Isn't it better that Mcdonalds allows local owners to profit from franchises, instead of retaining every location as corporate owned?

Your wit and witticism is without parallel. Examples abound of your special perspective on reality, so choosing a final example was no easy task. This is one of the 'best'.

>> ' Big companies as well as government should create a job for people that point out wasteful spending as well as promoting humanism' <<

Um.... yeah. At 'Big companies' the people eliminating 'wasteful spending' are known as 'upper management' (in cost cutting mode). These are the people who decided to replace 20 workers at $10/ hr + wage taxes + insurance + support, with one machine that does the same work at a lifetime amortized all in cost equating to $5 / hr with no wage taxes.

.... and at the government the people with the purported job description of 'promoting humanism' are known as... well.... 'government employees'. I say 'purported' because I like the way it makes my tongue move... I typed 'PURPORTED' because job descriptions of altruism LIKE OTHER MANDATES OF ALTRUISM tend to corrupt even the best intentioned.

Of course I was assuming you meant 'humanist' in the sense of 'humanitarian' and not an alternate meaning of; being devoted to literary culture, or a rejection of super-naturalism.

Thank you again. It is so refreshing to encounter someone whose cheese has slipped so completely off their cracker that in comparison, my most profoundly absurd nightmares seem as mundane and logical as middle school geometry.

Thanks for listening

thanks for the perspective

Sorry I didn't go to the lengths to explain a few key points..

way to run with it though

enjoy life ... guest

I have one more for you. I refuse to use the check out lines where you are expected to scan your items yourself. The displaced cashiers need jobs too.

Why stop there? tell your local retailers to throw out the cash registers, and boycott until everyone is using a strong box and an abacus.

Cash Registers make cashiers far more efficient causing cashiers to do 3 to 4 times the work of a 'natural' cashier. Sans cash registers, stores would employ perhaps 3 times as many cashiers. And just think of all the abacus manufacturers you would be keeping in business!

We have to come together to conquer these sinister technological improvements.

Onward Conformist Bulk!

idiotic thinking begets idiotic thinking I guess

It's obvious that efficiencies greater than 3 to 4 times are achievable

My compliments for a fine query!

It is not just automation and CNC which have replaced conventional manufacturing through out the world. The advanced materials technology and computational revolution have not only increased the productivity but also increased integrity and reliability of designs many folds.

All you need is to look at the way A380 and Boeing 787, are manufactured. The designer could dare to dream of these revolutionary designs mainly due to advancement in material technology which have made quantum leaps over last decade. Whole suite of new technologies is being developed. As much as 50 percent of the primary structure -- including the fuselage and wing -- on the 787 will be made of composite materials. One major piece of composite structure is displacing 1500 sheet metal parts and 40,000 to 50,000 fasteners.

Naturally these breath taking advances also displaced numerous mechanical jobs, instead rely on intricate computer software to validate the design integrity. Very many of these state of the art jobs means from being mere blue collar technical to white collar very high knowledge oriented sphere more often needing master degree or doctorate level mastery of technology. I have been seeing quite of bit of computational job being carried out out sourced from advanced countries right here at Bangalore.

I am certain most other engineering disciplines too must have been adapting similar state of the art technologies in the wake of aero space advancements, to cut cost and improve productivity. The fully net worked world has truly moved over to knowledge based manufacturing and hence there is apparent loss of jobs in the lower end spectrum of conventional manufacturing. This is a good trend, throws a caution that surviving the technology world also require one to be knowledge intensive. Note the revolutionary change in trend and be assured that there is no escape from acquiring knowledge to survive the future.

Read the SME daily report. There are often conflicting opinions, but the general consensus is that we are facing a global shortage of manufacturing personnel. There are not enough engineers, machinists, etc. Some of this problem can be attributed to the end of the baby boom era. I believe that we have brought the problem on ourselves. Too many companies look for the quick fix by hiring only experienced people while putting almost no effort into training. Our middle school and high school systems are filled with teachers who know nothing about manufacturing and therefore cannot teach it, or encourage students to choose it for a career. Now companies are taking great steps to encourage careers in engineering and manufacturing, targeting students even at the grade school level. This is what they should have done 40 years ago. It will now take a long time to fill the gap. There are plenty of manufacturing jobs but you need more than a barely earned high school diploma to be hired.

SME is full of it. They are a an advocate for the company that want cheap labor. How can there be a shortage of engineers and machinist when we have lost hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs. There may be a shortage at the price they want to pay which is the very least they can. Corporations would rather outsource to a polluted country with no labor laws or environmental regulations What are the facts that do not support the rhetoric? When a trade agreement does not take into account labor laws or the environment it is stealing from the American people. Our leaders only care about a photo opportunity to show what a great trade agreement they have negotiated. I suspect that the Chinese representative would not have had such a welcome home if it had not been in their favor. I wonder if our leaders are that stupid or just do not care about their children and grand children.l

The problem is you're both right. Here in Pittsburgh, about two hours south of Garyceng, there is a shortage of good machinists and I see starting jobs advertised at about $9 an hour. You can't find a manufacturing engineer who knows his %&* from a hole in the ground, yet there are dozens of 50+ good manufacturing engineers who can't find steady work because of their age. The companies have eaten their seed corn. What we're desparately short of is mangement brains.

I agree with your assessment of our alleged political leaders' ignorance, incompetence, and self serving policies. I thoroughly agree with you about unfair trade policies with countries that have no environmental laws, labor laws, etc..

However in spite of those issues the fact remains that there is a shortage of machinists and engineers. You don't have to believe me, or SME, just log onto www.Monster.com where I just now saw 1475 machinist openings. And yes, many are offering too low a wage for the position for which they are advertising.There are also positions in larger cities where a good CNC programmer or foreman level machinist can make close to 6 figures. I know nothing about you or your experience, but here is what I have found.

I have been in manufacturing for 35 years and self employed for most of the years since 1985. I can tell you from my own experience what you get when you advertise for a machinist. You get some guy who was an operator at some company that offered no more training than was absolutely necessary. He learned how to do basic setups and then went in search for more pay because now he thinks he is a machinist. At his next job, he learned how do simple edits at the CNC control and maybe when no one was looking got to play with the computer that the programmer used. Ok, so now he is a programmer and wants pay that he can't earn. You won't get a truthful reference on him because no one wants to get sued. Now he is on your doorstep and he wants to program your $60k+ machining center. When he crashes it, you not only have to pay the bill to have it fixed, but you still have to pay him. Maybe you would like to start him out at top dollar, but I have been burned enough and can't afford to repeat the experience.

I prefer to train someone from the ground up, but it is hard to find anyone who even wants to learn let alone someone with genuine valuable experience. I have two that I am training now and looking for a third. A former competitor once told me that he would usually hire someone who had worked for me because he knew that they had recieved some training.

We have an in-house training program that wins awards - but it's for the heavy construction industry, so we aren't growing our own machinists (or even engineers). Still, we ARE growing our own workforce for the future! We have helpers becoming journeymen, journeymen becoming foremen, and foremen becoming general foremen here on the project.

Ok where do you train to run the automation. I retrained but the colleges do not have any training except for madter level for program machines. So here we are the industry only needs a few people to write programs for only a few automated machine producers.

When more compays start making robots them more people will become programers. But wait I read where they are writing programs that will let robots write programs for other robots and the humans only adjust their programing with simple demands like up a little more and to the right.

Human can become obselete soon. We won't even be needed to explore space.

Where are the manufcturing jobs?

Ask the parents!

Around here, if you are at a party or gathering of neighbors and the conversation turns to where your kids are gong, the only acceptable answer is some top rated college. The mom or dad that says " my (son or daughter) is an apprentice (enter craft here) " will find himself looking at te tops of the heads of everyone else, who are looking at their shoes to avoid having to show their pity for this unfortunate family. Despite the fact that the kid going into the craft will be dollars ahead of the college graduate for a long, long time, maybe forever if after completing their training they go on to college.

Technology displaces low value talent, but parents ego need for "conspicuous consumption of college prestige" and kids Looking to be vice presidents upon graduation with their BS are the real issue.

Noone wants to serve their apprenticeship, or see their kid serve one.

milo "I've never seen amarket where a competent machininst couldn't find a job in two or three applications"

The pity of your point is that, except for a few graduate fields, the particular choice of college is not that important. So, the kid graduating from a $10,000 per year state university is quite likely to have an education that is at least 90% of what he would have gotten at a $50,000 per year private school. And, the student loans are very different in size.

Yep!

milo

Where I come from, Papua New Guinea, which is a developing country, has a good number of manufacturing firms. These firms are now struggling to employee electricians and machinists. For most college graduate electrician's and machinists are being recruited by big and medium mining firms in the country. Even the country's only technology oriented university is producing alot of engineers who are eventually jobless since most manufacturing and mining industries are looking for potential candidates with at least 2 years of acquired training or work experience during their study years. Some students could even do training as firms seem not have the time and budget for such courses.

It is pretty tough here with manufacturing jobs (food industries, chemical, soap, timber, clothing) compared to he mining industrial boom, and also, the labour department has not set structured standards of employment and remuneration packages. Where, as a result, alot of electricians and machinists have low to medium packages and are resorting to the mines for a better earning.

So I'd agree with the scenario of our leaders and their policies not making the right moves to maintain a sound spread of employment opportunities for technical personnels and engineers. In my country, the way I see it, manufacturing is said to be economical with cheap labour due to the governments failure of setting employee/career/specialists employment standards and packages. Where by semiskilled personnels are employed as technical/trade assistant electricians and machinists under the supervision of at least 1 to 4 (small batch of) technically certified tradesmen.

I'm sure the gratitude of the 3 or 4 people who have been saved grevious difficulties by this will be salve enough for the millions who are not usefully served.

I RATE THIS A GOOD ANSWER (sorry about the caps lock thing) because it shows how giving precautionary thinking and protectionist sentiment the force of law stifles innovation, utility, and thus economic efficiency.

This kills many jobs- the innovator who will eventually not innovate because his efforts cannot be sold; The people "better employed" by using the innovation who will continue tooperate at lower levels of utility than they would with the innovative tool, and the people who remain underemployed, unemployed in the economy because businesses are under stress because they lack the innovations to make them competitive.

Excellent answer guest. DO register and become a contributing member.

milo

We aren't there yet.