Industrial Automation

Another "good answer" to you, Hero. Hardly think your stating some obvious effects of increasing fuel costs can be called, "whining." Since our economy (USA) has been based on cheap fuel, it is very likely many (if not most) of us will experience the effects of high fuel costs in a myriad of ways yet to be realized. Doesn't look good for the good guys.

And with whats left we can invest in alternative energy, and carbon dits, and anything else to fight GW. it so clear now.

That was a good response AH, but I can't give you a good answer, because I can't find one

Well higher gas prices definately aren't good for us little people but it will help facilitate the move to alternative energies.

I love how all over Europe they have Smart cars and people riding bicyles while in the US it's all about who has the biggest SUV or Pickup. Makes me wish I wasn't grouped in with the rest of Americans sometimes.

If we were paying what Europe pays per gallon we would be driving tiny cars, too.

There is no reason Gas should be so high , with the wend fall profits that the Oil Co are getting ! The Goverment should step in and put a stop to it. They are letting the Oil co rip the American people off . and a lot of it is price gouging ,they could do something about it but they won't .

I gave you another GA Tad. You have stated a fact that no one seems know or care to remember if they do. The oil companies do only make a small percentage of the price of a gallon of gas.

Guest stated that the guberment should step in an stop the oil companies from making a meager percentage. When in fact, the goverment is a major part of the problem. Has anybody researched the cost of a gallon of gas. It is mostly tax. Tax that goes to support our fat cat goverment's wasteful pet projects and grossly inflated salaries. Therein lies the true problem. Big goverment is getting too big.

Once you study some economics, your argument falls apart. Companies get to declare their profits based on what they decide is profit. If they award their top executives multimillion dollar bonuses they get to deduct that as an operating cost... thus not proffit.

Dear Guest,

Yes, please study some economics.

"Companies get to declare their profits based on what they decide is profit."

I wish this was true. I own a company. If I got to decide what is profit, I would never have to pay taxes.

"If they award their top executives multimillion dollar bonuses they get to deduct that as an operating cost... thus not proffit."

Yes, salaries and bonuses are operating expenses. Let's say they really are outrageous, and give the top execs $4 billion in bonuses. Given that they have about $400 billion in revenues, their profit would go down by 1 percentage point.

And who gets all this outrageous profit that a company like Exxon makes? It is a publicly traded company, so the share holders profit. If you have any mutual funds or retirement plans, it is extremely likely that you have benefited from Exxon's profits.

Finally, let's say that the public bought the oil, and required the oil companies to make gasoline for free. That's right, absolutely free. Not just no profit, but no revenue or income at all. They would just give the gas away for free. Gas would drop from $4/gallon to $3.32/gallon.

Tad

Don't you think those bonuses are also taxed.

Mighty-Mike,it's the "Let them eat cake" mentality that caused Marie Antoinette to lose her head.

Hero was right on as he pointed out the 'bigger picture' as a result of high fuel prices. Every time my wife goes shopping she notices the price increases. There are a lot of people that are really hurting right now and it's nothing to take lightly,a result of the much higher diesel fuel prices the truckers are having to shell out of their pockets.

There is good news on the horizon see here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5424033 which refers to this Rand Corp. study here: http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG414/ .

This and the Bakkin Deposit, ANWAR,and the oil off the West,East and Gulf coasts should keep us going till all these wonderful promising technological breakthroughs make it out of the laboratory and onto 4 wheels. Forgot to mention CNG which we have plenty of and is much cleaner than petrol,ready for use now. If T.Boone Pickens wants to help us make use of CNG, the best thing he could do is lower the cost of converstion (about 5-10K USD). Cool part about CNG is you can have a compressor unit hooked into your Natural Gas pipe in your house and just fill up from home.

R.S. Simi Valley,Ca.

An optimist!

Seden, I gave you a vote for a good answer--Not for technical data, but just a kind and calm answer. You are right and I will take it a step farther. If buffoons were allowed bloodletting of oil companies, we'd be finished financially--

BP-British Petroleum(one example) and you should search BPs' alternative energy. They are a huge player in alternative energy and are helping us get away from oil dependency.

If there was a shift in public opinion to kill an oil company--there would be a division of that company that would profit from doing it.

It`s not about the "let them eat cake" but it`s about feeding the "bread" to the pigs... (wasting a precious comodity).And I think Andy is right when he says that the U.S has been living in a "fools paradise" for too long... and it`s time to join the "real world". Get real...start driving smaller cars and that would make a big difference. Anyway it will happen whether you like it or not..

The USA has been living in a "fool's paradise" for far too long, now they have to join the "real world" and are having problems. But it should have been done years ago.

I have many friends in the USA, ONLY ONE drives a gas guzzler!!! Most of them saw the light many years ago!!!

It actually is a sign, I feel, of the fact that they are all intelligent, logical, computer engineers!!!

$5 Gas a bad thing?

Is it making a fat cat fatter a bad thing?

Some Sheik from Dubai or Oman, purchased the largest airliner ever built the Airbus "whatever whatever" as his personal ride.

Depends on where my money goes.

If the excess money goes to support research on renewable energy sources or to improve every single human being on this side of the grave life conditions ... than it's just fine.

You tell me.

Its only a bad thing when I have to buy gas. When everyone else buys gas, it is not high enough...

Face it: Oil is a finite resource and we are consuming it in ever-increasing amounts. This can't continue much longer. The Oil Companies have already drained the easy wells. Now they have to work harder to keep up, but this is a losing battle, especially with world population still increasing.

High Prices promote Conservation. That is a simple fact. Yes, I think gas should cost $5/gallon. However, I think we in the US should have the courage and foresight to TAX the gas until it costs $5 (we should have done this decades ago.) We should have also insisted that this "Windfall Tax" was used to augment Public Transportation and a general lowering of the income tax so that the burden of the general rise in the cost of commodities was mostly compensated. Since we can't muster the will to tax ourselves, the "Free Market" drives the prices up anyway …only now it is the Oil Companies that reap the windfall. We have ourselves to blame!

Consider: If we could somehow force the price of Gas down, then demand would rise beyond capability and we would then be experiencing SHORTAGES. In the face of shortages, even $10/gallon would be acceptable to most of us.

Whatever the government takes in in the form of taxes you will get pennies on the dollar back. In the end you will pay more and get less.

I just don't don't know where to begin; that line of reasoning is wrong on so many points.

Reread some of the posts here. There are some excellent posts on the economics of the subject that might help dispell the myths.

I think we in the US should have the courage and foresight to TAX the gas until it costs $5

Thats not very bright to tax just for the sake of increasing the price for gas. Gas will reach $5.00/gal soon enough.

The tax also has to be alocated to some public works project such as road construction or alternative energy that shows results. not just throw money at the special interest groups or problems and have the government eat up the revenues on "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" programs that does not show results.

Replying to Anonymous Hero & phoenix911. I read all the posts and, in general, they are the same old whining stories, along with a few calls for "alternative Energy or Conservation, but still without any obvious means to stimulate a significant majority to go along.

I get tired of hearing the same old crap about the government being totally inept and expected to squander our money. You all had better wake up (at least a voting majority) and realize that it is YOU & ME that empowers the government in a Democracy. If we make a collective habit of just wining in futility then our "Leaders" will realize that nothing more is expected from them and will be lax on their jobs.

If we continue drifting, then we might as well stop griping about all our wealth going to the Oil Companies because nothing will change. It is our inability to muster a competent Government that lets the situation be controlled by Market Forces (of which Big Oil has the competence to work).

Ray8

oh please, while you feel that its up to the government to have all the answers. It the individuals the gets the results. and yes the elections are there to displace these politicians, and then where do those displaced bureaucrats go?

And back to your post about taxing gas just to make it more expensive. You views are hollow, back it up with more than just crap. It'll make you more believable, and gives us more of a challenge to debate.

e.i. more substances

phoenix911

Hey, I'm with you when it comes to voting!

I am just not with the idea of empowering the government with more of my money.

With few exceptions can any government do a better job with the people's money than the people can.

I've got an even better idea!

Why not just have everyone turn over all their earnings to the government and they can decide what we each need to be provided with on a daily basis. What could be better? An entire nation's productivity channeled to the common good!

Oh wait, didn't they already try that somewhere...

The relationship is very simple and direct: When the price if a commodity goes up, the demand for it goes down (I think there is a name for that). Examples: A) This rule has been proved with the price of Cigarettes vs. the number of smokers. B) The drastic drop in gas guzzler sales as the price of gas has risen over the last 2 years. C) The plethora of energy conserving "Alternative Energy ideas" and blogs that are rising in an attempt to align our "Demand" with the current high price of oil.

Indeed, raising the price of Gas even higher will create an even more intense effort to reduce its consumption. The trick is to raise the price, yet still capture much of the increase …TAX!

This rule has been proved with the price of Cigarettes vs. the number of smokers.

Find out what the statisics really are and the cause, such as the death rate ratios between smokers and nonsmokers, maybe the smokers are dying out?

So, we raise the price of of oil and the demand for home heating will go down in the winter?

Okay, that is a bit harsh, but my point is that everything you buy or get depends on the price of fuel; everything! Raise fuel prices and every commodity and service will cost you more. Actually, it will raise the cost of all of us, but I am thinking that you might appreciate this better if we express it in terms dear to you.

Maybe you don't know anyone that is on a fixed income. However, if you are lucky enough you might live long enough to feel that pinch first hand. The narrow viewpoint you express today will no doubt look a bit outdated when you are on the other side of the financial fence.

That's about as simple as it gets.

AH

Oh wait, I don't want that to increase only gas at the pumps

when the price of petroeum increases everything from transportation, packaging, lubricates, electricity increases.

one little bittie change touches so much, and if one does not understand the structure on an economy, it can be dangerous

You wrote:-

So, we raise the price of of oil and the demand for home heating will go down in the winter?

Maybe not, but I guarantee you that a large percentage of people will turn the thermostat down a few degrees this winter!!! Thats about the same effect!!

I understand your point. The logical extension of your argument is for the government to completely control both money and demand. That has been tried - and was met with failure.

The reason it fails on any level is because a relatively small group of people are in charge of making the decisions that "control" the market. Humans make mistakes and when they have total control of a market in this fashion, the results of a mistake are usually huge. When a mistake is made in a open market economy (say one company invests heavily in a technology that ultimately fails) the impact of the failure is relatively minor; the company goes bankrupt and its assets are passed to more competent players.

If the government artificially inflates the price of petroleum and reaps the difference as taxes ear-marked for alternative energy development, they are effectively subsidizing those areas of research a small group has decided are viable. If all that research goes bust, there will not be another source of ideas because the subsidy system stifled research outside the chosen topics. Big failure.

A controlled market has to be right every single time - not possible. The free market only has to be right more times than it's wrong.

Leave the markets alone and the natural pressures will push business toward the most economical solutions.

Dream On.....

Taganan,

Thank you for sharing what happens to people on a fixed income when the gas prices rise. This holds true for the poor and unemployed which after todays Chap.11 event on wall street is really going to put alot of folks out of work.

There is an incentive of being the first private research group to crack this nut of alternative fuels as they'll be freaking millionaires and rightfully so. They are much more motivated when it is THEIR money that's on the line,not some government hand out. Only losers depend on the government to help them,the smart money finds a way on their own. A free market economy works that way.

Meanwhile we in the US need to drill for oil, work on clean coal technology like those in South Africa are using,grant the permits for oil shale that's in abundance, convert cars to using CNG and that will keep our economy solid till these alternative fuels make it out of the lab.

Being engineers I shouldn't need to remind you of how difficult it is to take something that works just fine on the lab bench and then scale it up and make it work in real life,especially when it comes to something mechanical (electronics is much easier from my 30 years experience but try and get something just repaired on your car in a short time and something most always goes wrong and you spend the whole day on it).

R.S.-Simi Valley,Ca.

Hell, humans may not be a part of earths future.

So, in your mind, is the solution to exploit domestic resources or to take control of foreign resources for ourselves?

I'm not trying to be peevish or pick a fight here. I actually agree with everything you said. You stated the problem very well: the US economy to a large extent is based on the premise of cheap energy. Certain organizations are exploiting that vulnerability. To what extents are we justified in going to secure our economy and way of life?

Consider this: the US military takes control of all middle-eastern oil reserves. Cheap energy is then guaranteed to US industry for the foreseeable future and all government revenue is generated by the sale of oil to other countries. What would such a scenario do for US prosperity and how would the global balance of power shift?

I read all the comments and not one mentioned the one reason I think $5 gas could be a good thing. It changes our priorities and spurs the search for alternatives. Th discussion about government's role and taxes is a side issue. The search for alternative means of production, energy, and raw materials will spur innovation and economic growth in new sectors that would either never happen or be too slow to be profitable with cheap oil. An added benefit will be reduction in oil based pollutants, greenhouse gasses and maybe even global warming. Some manufacturing jobs may return to the US as the cost of transportation exceeds the savings from cheap labor.

All the pain our economy will experience from expensive oil is stress. Stress kills off some things while others grow. Some will complain and whine and some will see the opportunity and prosper. When was that not true.

Guest,

I read all the comments and not one mentioned the one reason I think $5 gas could be a good thing.

If you looked at the posts you'll see that posts did mention that gas will be $5. (which we are very clost to that already) And that is a poor uninformed reason to raise the price.

why change the price, why not have rations instead.

Guest,

If you read my last post you would of seen the key motivation at this time which is not only to "save our planet" but wealth beyond measure for the blokes that are the first ones! This isn't 1973 or 1978 where we can just move on as if nothing happened with gas in abundance and cheap. Come on, here in the US every major University is working on this as well as the inventors who have taken a 2nd out on their houses to be the first ones out the door with cheap alternative fuel like Bill Gates was with Microsoft. Hey, winner takes all and last I checked, Mr. Gates is still one of the richest men in the US.

All through history money has been the chief motivator of some of the major developments as these inventors I think would rather have the millions than fame and recognition.

Randy

All through history money has been the chief motivator of some of the major developments as these inventors I think would rather have the millions than fame and recognition.

And some that had good inventions has neither of the three.

(boy am I cynical today)

Good point AH.

I would like to add as an example.

Back in the 70's Wisconsin had a 4% sales tax. It passed because the burueacrat saw a need and sold it as temporary.

Temporary heck its over 5% + other adders for stadiums and the like for certiam counties.

One has to stop looking and depending on washington for answers.

Good Answer.

Dragon

Increased oil prices can be a bad thing when talking about your local economy. Its been stated many times on this thread before what these reasons are, increases in many other sectors will be seen besides just at the gas pump. But at the same time, the fuel prices have fueled millions of people to start thinking differently than has been the convention these last decades, of drill burn drill. The garage/basement tinkerers are the people that throughout history have created much of the technology we all take for granted. It's just too bad it takes a negative force to kick people into a "positive thinking" mode of change.

$5 Gas... Not at all. Use of Gas as a good industrial fuel. www.knackwell.com