Power Generation and Distribution Blog

I think you have possibly answered your own question. Some equipment is made to be refurbished and reinstalled for example I have seen 5000 hp motors that were built in the 1940's bought and sold and moved and refurbished. You just don't throw them away. I see two main problems with used equipment.

1. Does the existing equipment meet all new codes and listings for that particular installation? These codes and listings change ever two to five years. Also someone like UL will not re-list used equipment without a personal visit and inspection.

2. Who and how do you handle the warranty on used equipment? Most contractors will not carry any warranty on any equipment unless it is backed up by a manufacturer warranty. Some manufacturers and major machine shops will carry warranty on refurbished equipment.

In conclusion: Used equipment can be used if it is worth the expense to properly re-certify that it is capable to perform its new function.

Note: If you reuse equipment that is not certified and for some reason there is a malfunction which causes and injury or loss of life; Well let just say there are entire movies made about just that type of situation and guess who the bad guys are.

If you are a manufacturer, you probably will not be into really big utility stuff. We are. Our power equipment is useable for many decades. The value of a used piece depends on its condition, and whether or not its 'family history' is a good one (you will need an expert to really know.) If it is one of a good design, and in good condition, it is better than a new one of a bad design. In this case, most vendors will warranty it. Examples: bushings, power transformers. Distribution transformers are made in larger numbers, and so less likely to have familial/ design problems a few years into their production runs. Custom stuff (that is, they make 5 per year) is risky, even when new. Warranties from manufacturers are only for a tenth to a fiftieth of the useful life, but they are a sign of good faith.

We re-use nearly everything. We have been using reclaimed transformer oil for over 50 years. We even put it in new power-class equipment.

I have installed a great deal of used and new equipment. The biggest problem with used equipment is, during the final days when a company is still using the equipment-before it is shutdown to be sold: all preventive maintenance activities go to a minimum. The current user of the equipment will fall back into breakdown maintenance. So you go out looking for some piece of equipment, and a used equipment vendor has it available. They even say they will refurbish or rebuild the equipment. But many things will be missed, many items that should be replaced will be glossed over.

From actual experience, within a short period of time, the increased maintenance cost, and additional repair and refurbishment make the used equipment full cost exceed the new cost. This is especially true of a commodity like an overhead crane, punch press, or some other common equipment. With these types of items the warranty is near meaningless. A supplier of such equipment, new, knows how to make their equipment and the warranty is rarely invoked. On used equipment, the re-seller cannot afford to back up the needed repairs and don't pay anyway.

Now in the case of custom equipment, a warranty is very valuable because you are moving into new territory with the equipment supplier and pushing the design envelope in many ways. In this case a warranty is very good.

I have been involved in the chemical industry often purchasing or recommending used equipment. My experience has been mostly favorable.

With almost every startup,there is equipment that is discontinued within the first year of use often before it is started up. Recommended spare parts have been purchased and intergrated in the plant. Some reasons to consider used parts are:

1. When equipment manufacturers merge, good products, and product lines are often dropped or consolidated an unusable product.

2. The same model of equipment is modified or improved by the manufacturer and may not be the same (performance, shape, size, turn down ratio) for your application.

3. Much of the equipment in this industry is not only piped to a configuration but buildings are designed around weight, vibration, ventilation and other characteristics. You may be able to replace a 5 metric ton centrifuge in the third floor with a new one but can you afford the new building, piping, power supply and controls?

4. Regulatory pressures and controls over crankcase vents, valve stem packings, pump seals and fugitive leaks has driven manufacturers to drop product lines and change designs to unworkable equipment.

I would support used equipment with sensible precautions.

Used equipment is sometimes superior to "new-inproved" designs that have no redundancy but "just enough" strength. Value for the dollar is always a consideration but if I can buy a used machine for scrap metal prices, re-furbish & modernize controls, I usually have a better machine than can be had from China. Cranes, machine tools, forklifts, etc... are all rebuildable.

From the quality of steel to the workmanship in producing the product...they SURE don't make 'em like they used to.

A headhunter specialized in the power gen industry I can tell you that many of my client companies use refurbed equipment. And I am told that as long as it goes through a rigorous recertification proceess most of it is close to as good as new.

However, from my perspective it's use is job security issue for many and has actually created somewhat of a niche career for some. For example, I have one candidate working on a contract basis who makes a ton of money because he is one of a dwindling few capable of understanding and and guiding repairs on some types of substation equipment. And he makes himself more valuable and by promoting some other business that he works with that custom fabricate parts for equipment for which the spares are becoming scarce.

Doug the Headhunter

http://dougtheheadhunter.wordpress.com/