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Windows 10

07/29/2015 7:27 AM

After the first free year, how much will windows 10 cost? Will you have to pay that price every year?

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#1

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 7:35 AM

From everything I have read so far, it will be free, along with the updates, for the life of the computer in which it is installed. That is, if it is installed this first year.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 8:51 AM

"rule$ and regulations subject to change without notice."

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 5:23 PM

"free, along with the updates"

Yes, and cloud storage is forever. (Or until the cloud storage company goes out of business or raises your rates and holds your data for ransom)

I do not trust the Gates Gang band of robbers at all.

1. There will be NO WAY to reject downloads/updates with W 10. You get them all, period.

2. "Free" isn't "free forever". "Free" is "free" until MS says it isn't.

All MS operating systems will be rented to you from the cloud and are yours to use, as long as you pay the rental fee.

I'm not sure that I want to go through the agony of my free W 10. Maybe, maybe not.

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#3

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 3:33 PM

Are we talking costing us dollars here or our sanity as we try to learn and patch yet another different looking and operating OS of dubious "sea worthiness"?

Anyone else have a permanent Win 10 advert installed on their computer task bar due to a windows update?

Seriously Bill, seriously.

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#4

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 4:53 PM

Sure sounds like MS is shifting from "use purchase" to "subscription" marketing of their products...so, I'd bet Win10 does NOT stay "free" after the initial "honeymoon" period.

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 12:40 AM

That has been the MS strategic business plan for over a decade - look back at trade media from long ago.

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#34
In reply to #4

Re: Windows 10

08/04/2015 4:05 AM

Another step toward the death of autonomy, individual liberty, and democracy.

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#6

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 8:36 PM

You can bet the're not giving anything away, unless it's a trap....I've heard conflicting info already, first that this is the last Windows based os and it will just be updated from now on, and that they are saying they will provide support for only 10 years....So this would suggest that a new non-windows based system is being developed.....and the best guess, as has been suggested, is the new os is just a portal to the cloud....probably monthly charges like the phone companies do now....and probably cheapest when using a windows ie; MS phone.....or tablet....that's how they get ya....

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 8:52 PM

"Hello. My name is Microsoft consumer. You killed computing as we know it. Prepare to die." "Princess Bride" paraphrase.

How much money does one man need?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 8:58 PM

It's not a man....it's a machine....

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 9:24 PM

...or maybe a hive mind.....maybe we are sectioning off into hive minds, and eventually will become lorded over by some super intelligent AI....

...who will have an unending supply of miniature flying bots that can swarm to inflict punishment....

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Windows 10

07/29/2015 10:17 PM

....but can easily be infiltrated and taken down using one of many hacked exploits, aka movie "Independence day".

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 1:13 AM

Don't forget the AI is way smarter than us.....it won't show it's hand until it's 100% sure it can succeed....no emotional jumping of the gun, no panic, just cold infallible logic...

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#30
In reply to #13

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 3:02 PM

But imagine if you will if it were based on the bloated, resource hungry Win OS.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 12:53 AM

There is a slight possibility that they are reacting to the competition. The last several major and minor updates to the Mac OS have been free, and as far as I know, the plan is to continue that way.

I think the last (and only) version of Windows that I bought was Win 98, obviously some time back...

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#14

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 6:52 AM

I rest comfortably in the fact, that my Linux Mint, will ALWAYS be free!

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 7:12 AM

Which says what the World needs is freeware, functional, reliable, and interoperable with whatever Windows OS and the key and essential functions of the Office suite.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 8:27 AM

This is like saying the World needs a free lunch. It takes time to produce software, ranging from a few hours (my amateur hex editor) to 10s of 100s of 1000s of hours to produce an operating system. Are we to expect that no programmer deserves to be paid? (Disclaimer - I have never been a professional in the computer world)

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 9:31 AM

Requiring all Operating Systems to be compatible would not remove just payment to programmers.

What it would do is drastically improve our world, lower industry costs, and promote good, healthy competition.

If any OS doesn't perform well it should go away without the ability to generate a massive negative impact to the business world and/or our private lives.

In no way should any OS require any changes other than minor improvements that can be pushed out to the end user without causing havoc to an industrial process or a personal laptop.

Why would any OS be so unstable and finicky that it would require a complete restructuring every few months? Which oh, by the way, is not 100% rearward compatible with it's own previous versions.

The object of focus should be to improve the system(s) not to force the end user to change their entire OS and all upgrade all software packages residing on the machine for an unreasonable cost.

Hidden and obvious IT costs are not spiraling up, they are skyrocketing upwards on a daily schedule.

If any other department in any company were to assume the same increase in operating cost while causing the operational issues we suffer almost daily, that department would not survive the onslaught from upper management.

If ever a group needed to be given a wakeup call the IT world is it.

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#24
In reply to #17

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 12:57 PM

Requiring all operating systems to be compatible is like requiring all vehicle engines to be diesels. If the reason for the incompatibility is that Operating System A is optimised for controlling machinery but can display an error log and Operating System is optimised for graphic designers, then I would be glad of a choice. It is this idea that one computer with one operating system can achieve everything that is making life difficult.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 1:30 PM

"It is this idea that one computer with one operating system can achieve everything that is making life difficult."

Precisely why, the latest two major iterations of Winduhs suck.

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#29
In reply to #24

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 2:30 PM

"Compatibility of Operating Systems" typically refers to being able to access each others data files, much as all Personal Computer Operating Systems are compatible in that they can all read and write ASCII text files.

So by your analogy, it is not 'all vehicle engines must be Diesel,' it's 'all vehicles for highway use must be less than 15 feet in height, and must have round wheels.'

Nobody is trying to make a 'one OS that does everything,' since 'everything' by definition has mutually incompatible goals. The OS for a TV remote (Yes, it has an OS) must be small and efficient, to fit within the limited storage space of the device, while the OS for a 'Windows compatible' PC needs to have drivers and routines to handle the multiple variations in hardware design, so it must be large and bloated to hold all that. A PC OS needs to complete every task it is given, regardless if said task takes up enough time and processing power that the system slows down. The OS of a PLC must ensure 'real-time' response to all inputs, even if some process threatens to slow down or lock up the PLC, and it must be able to auto-recover from a crash.

The Windows 10 hype of 'one OS to to everything' is just that: hype. What they'll have is a broad range of OS's, all labeled as part of the 'Windows 10 family.' Each one will be optimized for its application, but they will have a common interface style, which is supposed to aid in user acclimation to a new piece of equipment.

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#38
In reply to #24

Re: Windows 10

08/04/2015 2:32 PM

Agree. There still are allot of machines running Vista - any thoughts on upgrading from Vista? What cost, assuming MS wants to make money off that? Any technical issues?

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 10:08 AM

"Free as in Free Speech, not as in Free Beer." Libre, not Gratis.

Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) like Linux and LibreOffice are free to distribute and modify, but they are not 'free lunches,' the organizations that work to maintain/upgrade the programs charge businesses and individuals for 'Service Contracts,' which allow direct access to the developers for timely problem resolution. The alternative is the public user forums, where you can post a problem, and then in a few hours wade through all the responses to find the ones that are actually useful, or you come back to find that NOBODY has responded. Many companies prefer to pay for the immediate access, as it is typically less expensive that a M$ Licencing fee, and they consider the rapid response a good value, since lost time due to a program glitch means lost productivity, and lost money.

Also, some of the organizations have 'sponsors,' or 'sugar daddies.' OpenOffice.org, for example, was sponsored by Sun Microsystems, and its successor fork, LibreOffice, is developed and maintained by the non-profit organization The Document Foundation.

If you, as an individual, use and like a particular piece of FOSS, you are encouraged to donate to the organization that maintains it. Not every user donates, but, in general, enough do for the good programs that their organizations can stick around and continue maintaining the software, while the poorer-designed and less popular programs will end up with their managing organizations closing up shop.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 10:14 AM

Additionally, many of the contributors, are not seeking compensation. The challenge of finding and fixing issues, are reward enough. Many of us, actually do enjoy coding.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 11:39 AM

I enjoy coding too, but fortunately I was possessed of another skill to earn a living. If coding was the only skill I had had, I would have liked at at least a living wage.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 12:00 PM

Hence the iconic image of the 'starving artist.' He COULD go into manual labor and trade the sweat of his brow for money to live on He COULD go into 'Graphic Design,' squandering his talents on uninspiring billboards and cliche ad copy for money to live on. But instead he follows his passion, doing what he loves BECAUSE he loves it, not because it is 'commercially viable,' and in so doing, he brings Joy and Beauty into the world, giving himself, body, soul, and spirit, to future generations regardless of the personal cost, for he sees that his vision, his passion is greater than himself.

Not everyone can do that, in fact, society would likely break down if everyone tried, but to those who are Called, they MUST do that, they NEED to do that, in the same way that we MUST breathe, and NEED to eat, to stay alive.

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#31
In reply to #22

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 5:11 PM

I don't mind freely giving when I'm in the mood. It's the expectation on the receiving end that it should always be free that I object to.

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Windows 10

07/31/2015 10:30 AM

Well, for that to change, humanity just needs to 'grow up' a little more, which will happen with greater proliferation of Free and Open Source concepts, nile LibreOffice and the Arduino microcontroller. As we mature as a society with FOS, we will begin to see a change, where people who use FOS software or hardware will be more and more likely to become active in the community forums for those items, and more likely to donate to the authors/designers out of gratitude for their efforts. (There that is again, people choosing to pay out of Gratitude for using Libre software/hardware. Gratis and Libre, separate, yet linked, and not just because they translate to the same word in English.)

We might even be starting to see the roots of this 'new business model' through things like crowdfunding (such as Kickstarter) and crowd-patronage (such as Patreon). Big Business may still use the old business model, but Small Business/Maker Communities and Philosophies are moving up, and may even prove to be a Disruptive Technology in the halls of Corporate Power.(1)

Notes:

  1. Which might explain Comcast's attempt to take control of the Internet, with all their fighting to repeal Net Neutrality(2), They, or their corporate/political cronies, have realized how much power a open and neutral internet gives to We, the People, power that We can use to expose the 'evil'/unethical practices of corporations and political action groups under the control of corporations, as well as giving us the power to show corruption in government before they can try to initiate a full cover-up and hide their wrongdoings.
  2. Which is sadly ironic, as in the debates leading up to the Net Neutrality ruling, Comcast said the rules weren't required, since they were ALREADY being 'net-neutral' under the federal rules they operated under(3), rules that were not set to expire until 2016, and that they were the ONLY Cable and Internet provider who had to operate under those rules(4).
  3. Spoiler: they were already violating those rules, but were doing coverups and double-talk to hide that fact.
  4. If they were constrained by rules their competition didn't have to follow, you would thing they would have been calling for a level playing field, making the others play by the same rules Comcast was(5).
  5. Then again, they WERE all following the same rules, their own rule of "We're Corporations, we don't need to follow any laws or regulations if we don't want to." They were just keeping that secret.

(Sorry for the anti-Comcast rant in the footnotes, some things just 'angry up' my blood faster than I can calm it down.)

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Windows 10

08/04/2015 4:16 AM

Comcast is one of the most loathed corporations out there. It's run by sociopaths. Don't apologize for your rant.

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 11:51 AM

"Free as in Free Speech, not as in Free Beer." Libre, not Gratis.

Actually it is free as in you don't have to pay for it, which is about as Gratis as it comes. Whether the programmers donate their own time or whether they rely on sugar daddies to pay the rent is irrelevant. Whether you donate is irrelevant. The software is free. If all software were free, how would the programmers not starve?

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#23
In reply to #21

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 12:09 PM

Programming sweatshops. They won't be allowed to die.

It's only a matter of time until a building collapses or catches on fire killing thousands of programmer cast minimum wage employees with no insurance........

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#26
In reply to #21

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 1:58 PM

"If you, as an individual, use and like a particular piece of FOSS, you are encouraged to donate to the organization that maintains it. Not every user donates, but, in general, enough do for the good programs that their organizations can stick around and continue maintaining the software, while the poorer-designed and less popular programs will end up with their managing organizations closing up shop."

The answer to your question was further down in the post you quoted from, so I have to quote myself to answer.

(I feel like Ben Franklin in the Play 1776:

John Adams (annoyed): "Are you quoting yourself again, Ben?"

Ben Franklin (dejected): "Oh, John, that was a new one.")

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#27
In reply to #21

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 2:07 PM

"Whether you donate is irrelevant. The software is free."

If you donate, then the software is not Gratis, since you have given money in exchange for it.

And, much like the street performer, in general, enough people donate enough money for him to keep doing what he loves. As I said, the business model is not for everyone, but for those who do find it working for them, they get to live a happy live, doing what they love.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 2:29 PM

I wrote a piece of software for a worthy cause, that I upgraded every year for 25 years, with only the slightest hope of ever getting compensated. I got a 25-year pin!

Besides being for a good cause, I always enjoyed the challenge, in spite of common frustrations!

Given the same conditions, I'd do it again...

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#32
In reply to #28

Re: Windows 10

07/30/2015 5:27 PM

Well, I can say the same, except that the good cause was my hospital department, and therefore one of the beneficiaries was myself. It was written first for MS-DOS, being converted for Windows 3.1 through to XP. It predated Microsoft Word, and so became the longest-running program in the hospital until the year after I retired. I never took a penny for it either, but with that insight I can say that a programmer always deserves to be paid.

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#36

Re: Windows 10

08/04/2015 6:50 AM

Nothing in life is free. Somewhere somehow you WILL pay for it.

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: Windows 10

08/04/2015 6:53 AM

Somewhat true, but the payment is not always monetary.

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#39

Re: Windows 10

08/05/2015 3:49 AM

Apparently W10 , by default . has some intrusive attributes.

They can be turned off.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Windows 10

08/05/2015 9:17 AM

There are claims that it can be turned off, but as any half-way compitent videographer knows, you can turn off the 'tally light' on a camera (that red light that let's you know when a camera is recording, according to 'popular wisdom') while still recording.

Let's look at that TOS text again:

"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to: 1.comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; 2.protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone; 3.operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or 4.protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services - however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer's private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement."

Notice the highlighted word, 'will.' Not 'may,' not 'might,' 'will.' Also look at the reasons they WILL snoop your entire computer, specifically numbers 3 & 4. "Maintain the security of our services." "Protect the rights or property of Microsoft." You think they'll consider it possible to 'protect their rights' if they allow people to use their software 'in private?' Even if they *DO* allow an 'opt out' routine to work, you can bet that every new software installation, every system update, will 'flip the bits' to 'opt you back in' as part of their 'maintaining the security of their systems.'

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Windows 10

08/05/2015 9:42 AM

Yes, and you can't control those updates. You get them even if you don't want them.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Windows 10

08/05/2015 10:03 AM

Exactly, If there was any doubt about Microsoft being Senator Palpatine(1), Windows 10 blew those doubts out of the water. What does Mocrosoft have to do to convince the remaining people of its evilness? Make an OS that runs on the suffering of infants? Buy Monsanto in an M&A action? Openly back Trump for president(2)?

Notes:

  1. Go watch Star wars if you don't remember that Palpatine was the guy who became the Emperor that the rebellion was fighting.
  2. There are so many ludicrous candidates spouting nonsense and acting rediculous, and not all of them GOP either, I just picked the guy who seems to be embarrasing his party(3) the most as an example.
  3. Not that he's completely committed to the GOP, prior to the campain trail, Trump TM'ed both 'Trumocrat' and 'Trumpublican.' Either he was hedging his bets, preparing to run for whichever side wanted him, or he was planning to run on BOTH party tickets at once(4).
  4. And I'm not sure if I'm even joking with that last part, it seems like a very Trump thing to do, try to win both primaries so the election would be Trump vs Trump. The guy likes gaming the system to be in his favor.
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#43
In reply to #40

Re: Windows 10

08/06/2015 7:23 AM
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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Windows 10

08/06/2015 9:24 AM

Well, If I ever get a Windows 10 device I know what to do.

Right after the initial power-up:

Open up Word and type in 500 repetitions of 'F**k Microsoft!'

Safe the document under the name 'F**k Microsoft!'

Create a Hotmail(1) account under the account name of F**kMicrosoft (with whatever number I need after it to be unique)

Email the document to ceo@microsoft.com president@microsoft.com and postmaster@microsoft.com with the subject line 'F**k Microsoft!'

After the e-mail has been sent, the computer is removed from power and network connections, and defrenestrated from a third-story window or higher.

And after that I'll build myself a new white-box PC running the latest version of Linux Mint.

(I apologize for the repeated censored vulgarity, but I don't believe Microsoft deserves even the slightest of my creative energy.)

Notes:

  1. That's the Microsoft-owned mail server, right?
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