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Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 7:54 AM

Why is it not possible to convert nuclear energy directly to electricity? What limits conversion? Say, if you have no secondary system imployed, hiw would you approach the problem?

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#1

Re: Nuclear to Electric energy conversion

10/30/2015 8:22 AM

Who says it's not? ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery

They are used in space probes that have to have a long lifetime too far away from the sun for photoelectric.

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#2

Re: Nuclear to Electric energy conversion

10/30/2015 8:31 AM

I wouldn't approach it at all- I'd be headed the other way as fast as possible!!

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#3

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 10:03 AM

Maybe the pyramids are already doing just that?

There is a lot of speculation on the subject but nothing has been confirmed yet.

High frequency transmission waves at certain frequencies excite fluorescent lamps enough to make them light up without any wiring attached.

The problem is that humans, animals, birds, reptiles, and other living organisms do not fair well when directly intercepting the transmission waves or being in close proximity to the antennae field.

I would suspect the same would be true for any nuclear induced wireless energy transmission system.

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#4

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 10:06 AM

Once again I think the question you've actually asked is not what is puzzling you. This time I cannot clearly see what you meant to ask because many plausible alternatives exist.

As Rixter accurately pointed out, direct nuclear power conversion to electric power conversion does exist. So your initial assumption is wrong.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 10:34 AM

Then why are still the guys who designed such nuclear plants run through a secondary thermal (steam) engine which limited by carnot efficiency of may be 30% other than direct conversion?

May be theres other way of doing it.

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#7
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Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 11:05 AM

You still have not phrased your question with enough understanding of the topic(s) to give a clear answer. I suspect the primary reason is the scale or size of the energy needed is the root of the reason for nuclear power plant design. (Sometimes size does matter. ) However, local engineering standards, political concerns, safety (personnel and equipment) concerns and familiarity with technology may be the deciding factor.

What you should grasp here is that most of the times many different aspects form an engineering choice not just one criteria. Because of this the same conclusion may be reached for multiple reasons.

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#20
In reply to #7

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 9:28 PM

It's to worry about, it's only sometimes LOL

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 12:14 PM

Atomic batteries get their energy from the heat generated by radioactivity. Atomic batteries are suited for applications requiring a small amount of power for a long time, in places where it is difficult to service the equipment (like in the outer parts of the solar system).

Nuclear power plants obtain their energy from nuclear fission chain reaction, which releases much more energy. Because it is a chain reaction, it is inherently unstable and must be tightly controlled. In addition, radioactive fission products are produced, and elaborate systems are required to contain the radioactivity and insulate the outside world.

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 1:13 PM

Then why are still the guys who designed such nuclear plants run through a secondary thermal (steam) engine which limited by carnot efficiency of may be 30% other than direct conversion?
Cost!

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 2:31 PM

So that the voltage level can be effectively controlled and stabilized.

Controlling a nuclear reaction with finite success has not yet been perfected well enough to control a direct energy form transfer.

It is much easier to control steam pressure and flow.

If steam pressure controls suffer a failure the steam can easily be instantly vented to atmosphere by the steam safeties and/or turbine diaphragms to protect equipment and personnel without severe impact to the environment.

Doing so with a nuclear reaction would be fatal.

There is a delay associated with lowering the shields over the fuel rods and the energy generated by the reaction until control is attained can safely be absorbed by the water system.

I do believe at some point in the future we will perfect direct energy transformation/transfer but probably not in my lifetime.

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#23
In reply to #11

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 10:44 PM

It's my understanding the the height of the control rods is controlled by thermocouples and magnetic amplifiers. I've build a mag-amp and it makes sense to me. The batteries mentioned use thermocouples directly with a thorium core, which is a very low decay core. They are not enough for direct conversion with uranium cores as they produce too much heat for the thermocouple to convert and thus cool. And solid state "cooling" is not enough either. So, water is the working fluid and that is quite good at high energies.

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#29
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Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

11/02/2015 10:45 AM

The length and diameter of the fuel rods determine the energy capacity of the plant.

Raising and lowering of the fuel rod shields control the reaction magnitude thereby controlling the heat produced in the water-to-steam conversion loop.

There is a very large quantity of reaction monitoring instrumentation utilized in controlling the shield(s) position and everything has double redundancy backup.

In most reactors, loss of shield control results in flooding of the reactor with borated water that shuts the reaction down very quickly.

Usually when this happens the fuel rods are damaged beyond use and must be changed out.

To me thermal activity wherein the conduction band electrons are severely excited and result in chaotic uncontrolled movement of the dislodged electrons is very much akin to the flow of electrical current.

I am confident that at some point in the near future we will perfect direct energy conversion and transfer methods to the point at which it is economically feasible.

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#5

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 10:23 AM

Molecular mayhem....

http://healthphysics.georgetown.edu/HP_FAQ.html

There are some attempts to make it work though....

"Tests of layered tiles of carbon nanotubes packed with gold and surrounded by lithium hydride are under way. Radioactive particles that slam into the gold push out a shower of high-energy electrons. They pass through carbon nanotubes and pass into the lithium hydride from where they move into electrodes, allowing current to flow. "You load the material with nuclear energy and unload an electric current," says Popa-Simil."

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/direct-conversion-of-radiation-into.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_energy_conversion

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 11:59 AM

Direct conversion methods from fission to electric...

"1. Magnetic Collimator Fission Reactor

2. Quasi-Spherical Magnetically Isolated Fission Electric Cell Reactor

3. Fission Enhanced MHD Gaseous Core Reactor "

http://www.osti.gov/scitech/servlets/purl/805252

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#13
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Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 5:25 PM

"The advanced nuclear power sources are used in a large variety of science fiction movies and novels, but their practical development is, still, in its early conceptual stages, some of the ideas being confirmed by collateral experiments. The novel reactor concept uses the direct conversion of nuclear energy into electricity, has electronic control of reactivity, being surrounded by a transmutation blanket and very thin shielding being small and light that at its very limit may be suitable to power an autonomously flying car. It also provides an improved fuel cycle producing minimal negative impact to environment. The key elements started to lose the fiction attributes, becoming viable actual concepts and goals for the developments to come, and on the possibility to achieve these objectives started to become more real because the theory shows that using the novel nano-technologies this novel reactor might be achievable in less than a century."

Link to full article....

Solid state reactor...

http://web.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/119332.pdf

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#19
In reply to #13

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 9:26 PM

O, wow, does your doctor ever tells you, "SE your running out of memory". How did you accumulate all these and those? Stunning

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#24
In reply to #19

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 10:49 PM

Know's all, tell's all, the SolarEagle

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#12

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 3:03 PM

It's better to be thought of a fool that open your mouth and prove it! You obviously didn't do your homework before coming here

"convert nuclear energy directly to electricity" Which resulted 1,640,000 hits in 0.63 seconds.

That should keep you busy and out of our hair for awhile

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 6:31 PM

I just stumble right through this stuff pondering on energy conversion efficiency, I am no nuclear scientist and far from my field.

I just thought about "why's?" stuff, i might cross right through it in future session.

Do you have lice in your head at this age?

People in the tropics specially kids are colonized by such creature having fun in the sun all day.

Kulas and I we'll really have fun doing monkey business(counting and taking one by one ticks and lice) if you'd let us Duh, we are not invited.

Okay so this is probably OT.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 7:45 PM

No need to be a Nuclear Physicist, Scientist to use common sense and do some of your own basic research before poising a question or a statement. "Why's" are more often than not answered by basic search of the subject matter.

You and Kulas(one of the same) should maybe stick with counting ticks and lice, better yet, find out "why" your considered a #2 louse, never mind, that would be considered picking on you.

You and Kulas are excused from the table now, but please shut the door on your way out

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 9:21 PM

Okay, this guy appreciate nothing but most humor! I got his pic from facebook.(oh crap, i might be sued himself)

Okay, but, which way is the exit, because the signage reads "YRTNE", this might be the wrong way.

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#15

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 7:18 PM
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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 9:05 PM

Nope, I guess cr4 is more interesting than google, don't you think? but, thanks.

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#21
In reply to #17

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 9:30 PM

Trolls must like it too, judging by you.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/30/2015 9:42 PM

What can I say..A good day to you Madam!

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#25

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/31/2015 7:18 AM

There are three types of radiation from nuclear events: alpha or helium atoms, beta or electrons, gamma or radiation like very hard X-rays, and there are neutrons. For what you want, beta radiation is the way to go. Collect the electrons as in a Leyden jar (a possible principle in the Ark of the Covenant), but you need a humungous lot of radioactive material to make it work i.e. be able to collect a useful number of electrons for a commercial electricity supply. Only a small portion of the radioactive material is generating electrons at any time. Megawatts needs Megatons. Alpha radiation, can't see how you would do it directly. Gamma, need to have materials to absorb it and generate electrons, a lossy process (heat is generated). Again need megatons to generate megawatts. Neutrons have no charge, so wait for them to break down (on average) in a few minutes. But then you have to separate the generated protons and electrons by an electric field to get a current flow. The preferred method is to slow down the fast neutrons generated by the radioactive process and use the heat created when doing this.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/31/2015 9:05 AM

Sounds like the process is getting harder and impossible.

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#27

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/31/2015 11:27 AM
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#28

Re: Nuclear to Electric Energy Conversion

10/31/2015 2:04 PM

Why do I need a bulb to convert electricity into light?

Why can't I transport myself with crude oil?

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