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Anonymous Poster #1

Car Accident

02/16/2016 9:55 PM

i want to know impact force of my accident. please conform which information required for this calculations i have complete data for the same. i want to check safety parameter for the car. my car is fully equipped with all accessory which are mentioned by manufacturer, no single bolt even added of subtracted from car original design, and safety doesn't work during accident.
please conform which document i shier with forum. I have all details regarding same.
Thanks

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#1

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 10:09 PM

What you want is impossible.

Totally and absolutely impossible.

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#2

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 10:22 PM

are you saying you think the airbags should have gone off but they didn't?

How is it possible that you have complete data? Were you using a data logging device?

To answer you original question. The impact force usually starts in around one to three thousand dollars and generally tops out near the current value of your vehicle.

If you have data.. speed, photos, skid mark distance etc. You must share it. You are already anonymous. There is no harm and the only way to get any good guess's or better is to share the information you have. There is not a document that will clarify this information for you if that's what you're looking for.

I hope there were no injuries. Sorry for you're accident.

aww Lyn.. i wanted to hear this.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 10:31 PM

Let's start with the inventory that proves, "no single bolt even added of subtracted from car original design".

Then a serial/no VIN check with the NTSB to see if a Takata recall for that vehicle is in effect.

I'm going to bed. Call me if this gets interesting.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 10:55 PM

Yes i post this in formation very soon, on same forum, i have all photo, audio clip, etc. air bag doesn't open. etc

no injury to any person in side car, but every one receive alter be for 10 sec of accident thats why it possible,

all data will be available with ECU logger.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 11:01 PM

Noone here will be able to help you.

No matter how much information you provide.

Contact:

Insurance provider, if you have one.

Police.

Car manufacturer.

As a last resort, hire an ambulance chaser.

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Anonymous Poster #2
#16
In reply to #5

Re: car accident

02/17/2016 8:34 AM

all data with logger? not really. you misunderstand the purpose of the device.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: car accident

02/17/2016 8:53 AM

The purpose of an ECU data logger is not for for crash test analyses, but such devices do exist. Think black box

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#4

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 10:48 PM

safety doesn't work during accident.

What safety device?

i want to know impact force of my accident.

What you ask is not possible. We could guess but without a lot of data it isn't possible for anything more.

I have all details regarding same

Then you need to talk directly with your car's insurance company about a claim, and if you think the car is faulty talk to a lawyer regarding raising the issue with the car manufacturer. This is not something a forum can help with (and our advice has no NO legal standing that would assist you).

If you are uninsured, be thankful you are alive.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 11:03 PM

guys if saftey work after accident no use of it. when why people buy this with high cost.

and why manufacturer sell this. only manufacturer help in this and no insurance company no any cost beyond any ones life. and every one accept this.

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#18
In reply to #7

Re: car accident

02/17/2016 1:23 PM

when why people buy this with high cost.

Because the devices save more lives than they cause deaths through not being there or malfunctioning. No device is perfect and like anything sometimes bad batches are accidently made and make it into vehicles which are outside tolerances and may not operate as intended (either prematurely, not at slower speed, not at all or catastrophically).

What's your actual problem? Do you think because one safety device apparently didn't work as intended the whole lot are a big con to take money away from customers who buy cars?

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#26
In reply to #4

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 10:00 AM

And if you are insured, you should still be thankful you are alive. Being alive wins out in spades over being dead.

ECU - engine control unit - has no built in sensors such as accelerometers needed for crash energy analysis. Even if it did, and you had the "data", you will still not be able to back-calculate crash impact force (which probably should be stated in terms of acceleration or impulse), since every car and every collision will be unique in terms of energy absorbed event.

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#8

Re: car accident

02/16/2016 11:08 PM

"Indian best selling cars fail the safety test by global watchdog

A series of crash tests by London car-safety watchdog Global NCAP revealed that some of the most popular car models of India, including the small budget friendly Tata Nano, the best-selling Maruti Suzuki Alto 800 and the Hyundai i10, lack major safety feature and will likely lead to fatality or serious injury in a crash.

World Health Organisation's 2013 road safety report states that the lack of safety along with reckless driving and bad condition of Indian roads has led to road death rate in the country which is more than six times as high as that of the U.S. and almost three times as of China's rate.

Tim Leverton, head of Research and Development for Tata Motors, said, "Tata is looking again at the Nano's structure for ways to improve its strength, after already adding power steering and improving the car's dynamics."

Volkswagon Polo's 2014 model was the only car that was equipped with air bags and anti-lock brakes. "We are proud to be leading the cause of driver safety," Arvind Saxena,managing director, Volkswagen's Indian.

The Polo and the Ford Figo were the only two cars to maintain their structures in a 64-kph (40-mph) collision."

http://www.urbannewsdigest.in/?p=7837

additional....

http://indianautosblog.com/2014/02/new-fuel-efficiency-norms-120433

"IAB Report - Figo, Alto 800, Nano, i10, Polo receive Zero-star in global NCAP tests

In a not-so-shocking revelation, the first-ever independent crash test ratings of some of India's most popular hatchbacks have received 0-star adult protection ratings when subjected to frontal impact tests at 64 kph. All but one of the five models tested also failed the UN's basic safety test. The global plan for UN's decade of action for road safety recommends that all member states apply this test, but India hasn't, yet."...
http://indianautosblog.com/2014/01/ford-figo-maruti-alto-tata-nano-hyundai-i10-vw-polo-receive-zero-stars-global-ncap-115165

additional....

http://sites.ndtv.com/roadsafety/category/safer-cars-for-india/

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#9

Re: car accident

02/17/2016 12:21 AM

Imapct force is easily calculated by velocity, decelerationtime and weight of the car.

F=mxa

1. Impact was not enough to open airbags

2. Airbag system not functional - you are lucky to be alive.

3. Impact force on passenger not to be determined, even if you ever tell us the make of the car, where it was hit and so on.

Was it even a head on collision?

If this is a physics experiment let us know. If you want to achieve something to use it in court - forget it.

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: car accident

02/17/2016 8:26 AM

There is another, perhaps more straight forward, way to calculate force:

Force=(Kinetic Energy)/(Stopping Distance).

Kinetic Energy = 1/2 x mass of vehicle x speed of vehicle squared

Stopping Distance = "amount vehicle is crushed" (how many feet shorter)

(Stopping distance is easier to ascertain than stopping time.)

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#27
In reply to #14

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 10:16 AM

Examples: vehicle mass is 1000 Kg, speed is 50 Km/hr (13.9 m/s), stopping distance will be 10m, 3m, 1m, and 0.1m examples and we reduce the formula for force to (0.5)*1000*(13.9)2/L, or 96605/L in units of Kg-m2/sec2/m which conveniently reduces to Newtons.

10m - 9660.5 N

3m - 32201.7 N

1m - 96605 N

0.1m - 966050 N

Obviously, if all the deceleration of the vehicle is included in the last 0.1 m of travel (at some immovable object), then something has to give. The car uses up the force in crumpling itself (and occupants as the case may be). Very bad, so sad.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 3:09 PM

You bring up a good point. I'd like to ask a question.

Which is worse:

1. To hit a car, bumper to bumper head on (car coming toward you is the same car moving the same speed toward you).

2. To hit an unmovable solid object.

Assuming that both 1 and 2 are the same car moving the same speed and all other circumstances are the same.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 3:30 PM

I think #2 is probably worse, since it typically does not absorb impact energy by crumpling as would another car (mirror image of the first car).

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 3:41 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/08/autos/tesla-crash-test/index.html

Interesting video here.

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#31
In reply to #29

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 4:46 PM

You're thinking too deeply.

Here's a hint. Consider both scenarios #1 and #2. At t-.001 seconds (right before impact), the car is moving at v mph and is x inches from the place of impact. We know where the car is at impact and it's speed, but how about .001 seconds after? Or t+5 seconds?

How fast the car decelerates will determine the forces felt by the driver.

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#32
In reply to #28

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 6:59 PM

Should be the same; stopping distance is the same.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 7:09 PM

A GA to you!

Most people automatically think that a head on collision is the worst type of accident - we were taught this in drivers ed.

I've asked this to many people and very few understand. Here in LA, there was a radio host named Mr. KFI - a pretty smart man. I asked him and even he didn't get it.

Of course in the real world, the outcome will probably be a bit different. There are very few unmovable objects to hit (even a big oak tree will deflect) and when will you ever hit the exact same car directly head on?

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 8:04 PM

There is a story that in 1903 or thereabouts, there were only two cars in Ohio, and they collided. (Maybe while racing each other?)

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: car accident

02/18/2016 8:16 PM

I heard about that story, but I think it's just a story.

Think about the possibility of something like that happening!

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#36
In reply to #33

Re: car accident

02/19/2016 8:13 AM

I gave you the right answer, and got no good answer. I even calculated the different forces for various stopping distances, I got nothing. Tornado comes on, repeats what I said, and you give him a good answer.

I would not buy a new or a used car from you, sorry.

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#38
In reply to #36

Re: car accident

02/19/2016 11:48 AM

Huh? I didn't repeat what you said. You said #2 was worse; I said they were the same.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: car accident

02/19/2016 12:41 PM

Actually, I was attempting to reply to #33 post (autobroker).

I guess I agree with you they are the same since both cars (if mirror image collision, each with the same KE as one car in #1 example) would crumple to the same extent as if they collided with a stationary partition of infinite strength.

Bottom line: nobody walks away from that one (unless it is a crawllision).

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: car accident

02/19/2016 1:09 PM

Oh, my golly gosh sahib's. The original posting on fixing the broken motor car and gathering 50% of the data, and not having half of it, is making much dissension and many upsets. Oh, my ripe banana! So causing my good self to become twitching and tensioned, my mangoes are over ripening.

The Tata, she is broken after making a collision with an object and here in India we can fix all and many things. The posting man will fix his Tata and pimp his ride much good.

We should drink more tea and eat more cakes and be happy chappies.

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#41
In reply to #36

Re: car accident

02/19/2016 1:36 PM

James,

Hey, I like reading your posts and I think you do a great job with the answers here. I've given you many GA's and I think you deserve every one of them.

This time, I think you're mistaken. I'm prone to make errors, but unless I'm seeing something wrong, your response to my questions does say you chose option #2. Tornado said something different, he said they're the same, which is the correct answer.

Check it out and let me know what you think.

Thanks!

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#43
In reply to #28

Re: car accident

02/19/2016 1:57 PM

OK, I relent. There is precisely twice the total energy involved in the #2 collision, so same damage takes place (distributed across both cars involved). I did overthink it, and who would have thunk that?

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#47
In reply to #43

Re: car accident

02/22/2016 8:34 PM

You mean #1 collision (two cars are involved). #2 is the collision where the car hits the wall.

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#50
In reply to #47

Re: car accident

02/23/2016 8:22 AM

2, 1 whatever, what's the difference? 1

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#44
In reply to #28

Re: car accident

02/22/2016 6:32 PM

Believe it or not, it's the same. If you are travelling 60 mph and hit an identical car travelling toward you at 60 mph, the result is the same as hitting an unmovable solid object at 60 mph. The kinetic energy of your vehicle before and after collision in both cases is the same. (In the second case, the other vehicle's kinetic energy serves to crush it's front end.)

MythBusters actually tested this:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/collision-physics-explanation-needed.104387/

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: car accident

02/22/2016 7:23 PM

It's easy to prove: Since all things are equal, Force to the right (+F) plus Force to the left (-F) = 0

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#46
In reply to #44

Re: car accident

02/22/2016 8:32 PM

The general public doesn't get it, do they. Even the Mythbusters didn't think it was true. Next thing you know, the general public will believe that aliens have taken over the White House ... oops, I guess the story is already out!

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#54
In reply to #46

Re: car accident

02/25/2016 8:36 AM

You mean aliens did not take over the White House? I am shocked. No human being (in their right mind) would try to pull the stunts this POTUS has done. I hear he is going to ski jump over the White House for his next trick, while simultaneously trying to slide his nomination for SCOTUS past Congress.

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: car accident

03/01/2016 10:28 PM

I always go back to early 2009 - the banking sector was ready to fold, brokerage firms were in huge trouble and big old AIG was near collapse. Logically, the first thing anyone should do is ... I love this ... to get a healthcare package approved!

Awwww, come on! If BofA, Citi, AIG, GM, Chrysler, Goldman, Chase, Fannie, Freddie, etc go under, who cares - at least we all have health insurance!

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#56
In reply to #55

Re: car accident

03/02/2016 11:14 AM

Next thing the "verloren kindern" will ask for is national food insurance (oh snap we already have that), and eviction insurance (they were talking about that on NPR this morning, and it made me regurgitate slightly my breakfast just up to my throat).

It seems the younger generation feels the need to ditch liberty in lieu of "security", but as Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams pointed out, they will actually experience neither.

History does at least have the redeeming quality of repeating itself. Perhaps another generation will come that feels the weight of a heavy hand upon their back, and somehow realize that Liberty is preferable under any and all conditions.

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: car accident

03/02/2016 2:12 PM

Great post!

Eviction insurance? I wonder what they have in mind.

I believe that the next generation will not have the same quality of life we have enjoyed. The 1% will have a good life and may even be better off. The middle class will have less, but they won't know it. The working lower class will be in even worse shape. The funny thing is that I think the non-working lower class will be the same.

The divide between the top and bottom will get bigger and many more of the middle class will be renters.

Liberty - our past generation fought for us to have it. We were told about the fight and we appreciate what they did. The next generation doesn't understand and unfortunately, they actually believe they are entitled.

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#10

Re: car accident

02/17/2016 2:05 AM

Is your accident being investigated?

If so, by what agency?

Where did the accident take place (Country, region, city and address)?

What is the make, model and VIN of your car?

Do you have the original sales documentation of the car?

Do you have brain damage from the accident?

WHY DO YOU THINK ANYONE HERE CAN HELP YOU?

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#11

Re: Car Accident

02/17/2016 6:11 AM

There are some assumptions that have been made by many here, including the OP that are flawed.

In the case of the "accident", the safety devices did not activate AS YOU EXPECTED THEM TO. However they may have performed as designed.

Front airbags should not deploy for a side intrusion, side air bags should not deploy for a front collission, Rear end impact different again, speed lower than ?? gives no deployment and so on. (Six years since I left the industry, but the standards and the reasons behind them are still basically unchanged.) There are also regulations about seat belt locking mech and stretch shock absorbers in the webbing.

Impact force is actually a time function over the total event and is a function of the total loaded mass of both vehicles, vector direction of impact, crush zone absorbtion and even how solidly each occupant was "attached" to the vehicle. This calculation is "beyond difficult" even if done within a laboratory and could be potentially different for each occupant depending on how they were braced through the impact period.

Even if you have every detail for your vehicle, that's less than half the necessary information.

Then you need to calculate that force across whatever area of your body was against the restraints, or whatever else was slowing you down at the time. The human body is not rigid, so your head would experience different force than your chest restrained by the seat belt. Again, these force distributions are not evenly spread. .... and so on!!

I think that the major safety feature that failed is the need for both vehicles to have a "responsible and alert driver in control, driving in a manner appropriate to the prevailing conditions."

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#15
In reply to #11

Re: Car Accident

02/17/2016 8:33 AM

What assumptions that others have made are you talking about? I don't see a single example.

Wait.. I think i found one..

"Even if you have every detail for your vehicle, that's less than half the necessary information."

How can one have 'all' yet only have 'less than half' at the same time???

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#20
In reply to #15

Re: Car Accident

02/18/2016 12:19 AM

Because as the explanation makes clear the OP does not have data for

the other vehicle / wall / whatever was impacted

the size and weight distribution of the passengers

road conditions

etc ad nauseam (um?)

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#25
In reply to #20

Re: Car Accident

02/18/2016 9:05 AM

Hey genius. He has yet to share what information he has. At this rate he never will.

Nothing ventured nothing gained

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#37
In reply to #15

Re: Car Accident

02/19/2016 8:23 AM

JE:

zero times "all" = zero

zero times "half" = zero

error 17: undefined global variables

macro stopped.

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#42
In reply to #11

Re: Car Accident

02/19/2016 1:40 PM

That is precisely the difference being being seriously dead or even injured. Everyone walks away when the tape is rolled backward.

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#12

Re: Car Accident

02/17/2016 7:43 AM

You need an attorney, not a physicist.

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#58
In reply to #12

Re: Car Accident

08/19/2017 7:08 AM

True! Is the matter solved? Attorney may make you case more simpler. If you have been injured in any kind of accident then probably you have to hire a personal injury lawyer. These kinds of lawyers are able to assist the persons who have been mentally or physically injured due to the mistake of any other individual. Try this site to get more info about such lawyers.

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#13

Re: Car Accident

02/17/2016 7:47 AM

How fast was the tree going?

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#19

Re: Car Accident

02/17/2016 2:02 PM

Sorry to say this but the cost of determining the forces will exceed the cost of replacing the vehicle. Be thankful that no one was severely injured or died.

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#21

Re: Car Accident

02/18/2016 2:52 AM

This isn't that hard!

Mass of car = M

c= speed of light

E=MC^2

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#24
In reply to #21

Re: Car Accident

02/18/2016 8:26 AM
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#22

Re: Car Accident

02/18/2016 3:23 AM

Dear friend,

You have mentioned "i want to know impact force of my accident. please conform which information require......."

The impact force - depends upon

1.the speed at which the vehicle collides.

2.whether it is colliding with stationary object or moving object.

3.if it is moving - is it moving in the same direction or opposite direction. If it is in the same direction - the impact will be less since the difference in speed will count. If it is in the opposite direction the resultant speed will add up and impact will be severe.

4. if collission is on soft material - the damage to your vehicle will be less and if it is harder, the damage will be high.

Your data should furnish more details.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

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#23

Re: Car Accident

02/18/2016 5:26 AM

Esteemed colleagues on many continents and in many countries, and CR4 peoples of great knowledge and wisdom. I tink we takle the question from the bad side and not right side as we know all west tern people read left to right. So look goodly at the question.

1. Impact force of accident was the thing that he crash into and I tink it was BIG.

2. Conform the information, Oh yes, if it broke your car it is conformed and possibly confirmed that your Tata is broken now.

3. He has complete data as well as an umbrella, spare wheel, some spanners and maybe a broken head light.

4. Too check safety para meters please use a tape measure and check the original size against the new modified size. If the Tata is now shorter than the original bought size then the Tata is not safe.

5. The car was coming with all bits to make it nice for my girlfirends, it was pimped very hotly. Now we ask, if the car, did have a engine, battery pack wheels and brakes and the other accessories that were needed.

From the information I have finded and all the points that all CR4 peoples have missed. I have used my super smart phone app and calculated that the answer is ......the safety feature not purchased with the car was the brake pedal and that is why it did not work when he made a big kaboom and broke his car.

Mahindra is better they have go fast pedal and a brake pedal included in the price.

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#48

Re: Car Accident

02/22/2016 9:20 PM

Dear All,

My car was Renault Duster,

five car are moving one by one, same make

I was forth in number,

speed will be 80kmph,

suddenly one car inter in front of first cars, and lower its speed almost to stop, By visual observation of other member in car, every one gets alert as accident / collision is going to happen,

just in 10 Sec five cars are collied to each other, sequence followed as below

1) first car notice sudden lower down speed of front car. and he turn left as some space available for him to move left.

2) second car driver notice something change in direction of first car, and he turn right, he hit first car back corner of first car, and his right corner,

3) Third car directly hit to second car back and center,

4) forth car was my and it also hit for third car at center,

5) fifth car hit to my car, small damage happed to fifth car.

Damage level for all of above.

1, Back corner damage, 2) front left corner damage and backside damage, 3) front as well back side damage, 4) front as well back side damage but less than back side of 4th car, 5) formal bumper damage,

approx distance between car will be 20 Meter in each car,

I want to attached one audio clip please for this accedent please some one explane how to attached it i will attached.

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Car Accident

02/22/2016 9:54 PM

I see the problem. The car is not a Renault, but a Dacia from Romania. They put a Renault badge on the Dacia and they build them all around the world.

They have a poor safety rating. This may be why the safety features of the car didn't work. May I recommend buying a Toyota or Honda for your next car.

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#51
In reply to #48

Re: Car Accident

02/23/2016 8:21 PM

So what difference does it make what the impact force was? Which car are we talking about the fourth one? Yours?

If I read the sequence of the accident then I would say: NOT ENOUGH SAFETY DISTANCE between the cars to come to a safe stop in case of an emergency.

The impact force was as high as the damage reported indicates.

Post the audio clip on Youtube and send a link!

I guess it was more than one "Bang"!

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#52

Re: Car Accident

02/24/2016 4:24 AM

If as you indicate the accident was "nose to tail", then it is possible the airbags (if fitted) and the seat belt locks (if fitted) may not deploy.

The safety features of the crumple zones in the bumpers and other components seem to have worked.

The airbags and seat belt devices are (meant to be) designed to activate when the accident causes changes in velocity that would cause serious injury to the vehicle occupants.

In the nose to tail impact, if it was less than an equivalent 15km/hr impact (my memory of the settings over 7 years ago so could have been changed since) then the airbags would not deploy. If your car travelling had slowed to 50 at the instant of impact and the car in front was already slowed to 40 for instance then the impact would be effectively less than 15 km/hr.

Also, the inertia reels in the seat belts would only trigger if your body lurched forward at a certain rate.

Finally, the seat belt webbing stitching stretches when impact exceeds another higher figure.

Which of the claimed safety features from the manufacturer do you believe did not perform as expected? I have not seen your list of those, so am making assumptions that the car has airbags and seat belts.

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Car Accident

02/24/2016 1:18 PM

Also, if the nose of the car dropped and the tail of the car in front rose, then the impact wouldn't be centered on the bumper (vertically). The front of the car would have been crushed and crumpled in like it's designed and the impact would be spread over a larger area causing the airbags to not deploy.

Seeing that the car is a Dacia, it also could've been a defective airbag or poor engineering. When designing cars, I don't think they emphasize safety, though I could be wrong.

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