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Anonymous Poster #1

Frying Pan

03/08/2016 4:08 AM

Coated pans similar to TEFAL frying pans may be not good for health since any color coating means chemicals that can be hazardous to health.

If that is true ? what would be the ideal cooking or frying made of. What about Titanium cooking pans?

Thanks for answer or reference for source of info

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#1

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 5:14 AM

If that is true ?
It's not, and there is no evidence to suggest that it is.
TEFAL is a company name formed from the words TEFlon and ALuminium. They make cookware from aluminium coated in polytetrafluoroethylene (TEFLON).
TEFLON has never been suspected of being harmful to health. Aluminium (US Aluminum) sometimes gets a bad press.

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 2:04 PM

Well, not so fast.

Many non-stick coatings in cookware are polyphenylene sulfide with maybe a small amount of Teflon.

This coating is DuPont Ryton® PPS and chemically different than PTFE.

Being from the plastics world, we used to make missile radomes form PPS many years ago. Many were also ceramic, supplied by the Coors brewing company.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 6:43 PM

Indeed... have not vetted the below, and don't know how slanted the articles may be, but... 'not so fast' is rather apropos. And, my apologies for the non hyperlink links... can't get the formatting to work on this machine.

http://www.alternet.org/story/46061/toxic_teflon%3A_compounds_from_household_products_found_in_human_blood

http://www.ewg.org/kid-safe-chemicals-act-blog/2009/07/industry-calls-them-super-plastics-what-if-theyre-also-super-dangerous/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/05/150501-perfluorinated-chemicals-dupont-teflon-science/

https://www.fluoridealert.org/wp-content/pesticides/effect.pfos.class.news.63.htm

http://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-01/documents/pfcs_action_plan1230_09.pdf

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 7:44 PM

"Miracle plastics" they may not be.

Each generation has discovered new ailments that are very likely due to these petrochemicals.

My wife had several miscarriages in the late 60's early 70's that I now directly attribute to bodily exposure to TCE and MEK as well as other solvents.

"Better living through chemistry" may really come down to trying to live through the effects of chemistry.

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#75
In reply to #6

Re: Frying Pan

03/12/2016 3:09 PM

It interesting to say, that new food process equipment that requires a higher diary of sanitation (for dairy products such as making cheese) the USDA-3A prefers using Teflon coated stainless in stead of just polished stainless.

The interesting part, these very same equipment had to be re-Teflon because the Teflon wore off... In the food it's processing.

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#76
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Re: Frying Pan

03/12/2016 4:00 PM

Just curious: can that coating be applied in situ, or does it have to be sent somewhere?

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#77
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Re: Frying Pan

03/12/2016 4:27 PM

Pretty sure not a simple "in situ" application. Old has to be completely stripped off first and then "Substrate Preparation

Substrates

Any substrate which is dimensionally and thermally stable at the bake temperature required for the particular product can be coated with Teflon™ Industrial coatings.
Articles to be coated should be free of sharp corners and edges, excessive pits or porosity and excessive roughness as at welds and joints.
At bake temperatures greater than 450ºF/232°C, certain metallic substrates are unacceptable. The melting points of tin (450ºF/232ºC) and lead (622ºF/328ºC) are too low to permit some Teflon™ bakes. The poor adhesion of copper to the copper oxide formed when copper is baked in air at high temperatures results in poor adhesion of the Teflon™ industrial coatings. Because of reactivity at the high baking temperatures, Teflon™ coatings have relatively poor adhesion to magnesium and to aluminum/magnesium alloys containing more than 0.5% magnesium. Aluminum permanent-mold castings and die castings are successfully coated with Teflon™ coatings, but may show a high reject rate due to the formation of blisters caused by expansion of air bubbles in the metal during the high temperature bake.

Cleaning

In all cases, Teflon™ coatings should be applied over clean substrates. Normal industrial practices, such as chemical washes or solvent cleaning and degreasing can be used, but precautions must be taken to remove all residues from the cleaning process. Depending on the initial condition of the metal, it may be necessary to physically remove dirt, rust, mill scale, paint, etc. After cleaning, the metal should be handled with gloves. Fingerprint contamination may show up as a stain on the finish. Residual oil also may cause stains.
Preheating

Preheating metal substrates to the temperature of the Teflon™ bake is advantageous in removing traces of oil and other contaminants, especially when the metal is cast and somewhat porous. With most ferrous metal, this procedure has the advantage of temporarily passivating the surface against rusting and the blue oxide formed increases the adhesion of the acid primers. In the case of aluminum and stainless steel, these advantages are not apparent and the preheating step can be omitted where clean metal is involved. Copper and brass should not be preheated in air because the resulting oxide has poor adhesion to the metal. A formic acid rinse reduces oxide formation somewhat on copper."

Highlighted the one area re: aluminum castings since this also a problem when it comes to "powder coating" aluminum castings. Always recommended to customers that we T51 aluminum castings at 450 F to "pop" any sub-surface gas holes so they could be filled in prior to powder coating which is baked up around 425 F.

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#79
In reply to #76

Re: Frying Pan

03/12/2016 7:26 PM

We send it out

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#80
In reply to #79

Re: Frying Pan

03/12/2016 9:28 PM

Thanks to both you and Spinco. That is what I presumed...

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#2

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 7:19 AM

Green cars are not good for your health if they hit you. Similar thing can be said about frying pans regardless what color! Is the black from Teflon coating even a color?

Please specify what you regard as "Ideal". Non-stick? No health risk?

What?

I guess we all live with a lot of different frying pans. Maybe the way you cook makes the difference. Maybe what you cook does.

Want some forest mushrooms?

Go for Titanium of you want. Good luck!

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#69
In reply to #2

Re: Frying Pan

03/11/2016 8:31 AM

Titanium sounds like a good idea right??? I doubt that people would really want to invest in titanium cookware knowing that titanium is the only element that burns in nitrogen.

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#70
In reply to #69

Re: Frying Pan

03/11/2016 9:00 AM

Thermal conductivity

Al 124 (Btu/(hr oF ft))

Ti 13 (Btu/(hr oF ft))

That's why nobody makes cookware out of it.

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#73
In reply to #70

Re: Frying Pan

03/11/2016 1:49 PM

Not to mention it's a dog to cast and a bit*h to machine.

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Frying Pan

03/11/2016 9:51 PM

After Lyn's informative post (great info!), who would ever want such an expensive and definitely crap frying pan? Certainly not me....

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#71
In reply to #69

Re: Frying Pan

03/11/2016 1:03 PM

I've heated at least a couple of different Ti alloys to over 1200°F many times in an ordinary air atmosphere. It does develop alpha case, but no consumer is going to be concerned about that. If the Ti gets hot enough to burn in air, the house was already on fire!

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#86
In reply to #71

Re: Frying Pan

03/16/2016 8:19 AM

FYI, the ignition temperature of titanium in Nitrogen is said to be 1470 degrees F. However, the reaction can occur at room temperature under certain conditions, which is why one never puts certain liquid gasses into titanium dewars.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Frying Pan

03/16/2016 11:07 AM

Thanks. I was unaware of that fact. Fortunately, our machine has difficulty reaching the 1150-1200°F that we use, so there is very little danger of it accidentally reaching 1470°. In fact I suspect that the heating elements would burn out well before reaching 1470°, so heating would be reduced or stop completely.

I did see that 1470°F figure in Wiki's article on Ti, but that was pure Ti burning in pure N2. Do you have any idea how that figure would change for alloys like Ti6,4 in air?

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#90
In reply to #87

Re: Frying Pan

03/16/2016 12:57 PM

I don't know how rapidly these reactions take place. I do know of an explosive industrial accident that occurred when a titanium dewar of lOx was dropped. In that case, people died. We seal our titanium parts in argon to eliminate deterioration at elevated temperature. I suspect that alloyed titanium would exhibit similar characteristics as pure titanium, but that the reaction time might be significantly longer.

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#94
In reply to #90

Re: Frying Pan

03/16/2016 2:49 PM

One report I saw indicated that the reaction is "semi-explosive", with a Ti alloy fire initiated in a turbine engine lasting about 20 seconds. Of course that could propagate to other parts of the engine and/or structure, possibly leading to catastrophic failure.

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#3

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 11:44 AM

There are always tradeoffs....non-stick only lasts about 6 mos in my experience, then throw away and get new...

http://bestreviews.com/best-skillets

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#5

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 4:03 PM

Nothing can beat a well seasoned cast iron frying pan. My next choice is cast Aluminum with a hard anodized finish. The most important property is an even heat distribution without hot spots. As previously stated, Teflon coatings are useless regardless of any possible health issues.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:00 AM

I too will take cast iron. Never aluminium, \there have been studies that link an excess of aluminiun with Alzheimers, weren't sure if it was cause or effect. Simnce there are alternitives, I'll stay away friom aluminium.

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#19
In reply to #9

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:10 AM

If you're heating the pans up enough for the aluminum to melt and soak into the food, you're cooking WAY too hot.

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#26
In reply to #19

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:15 AM

I presume your tongue was firmly pushing out the side of your cheek!

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#14
In reply to #5

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 5:08 AM

Have to agree fully.

The cooks in the RN used steel or cast iron frying pans, and "burnt in" the surface with salt, to make it non stick (Teflon was not used for cookware then!).

I do not know exactly how, I have never done it, I was once told by a cook that is what he did, nor the temperature used, other than VERY HOT!!

Salt melts at just over 800°C by the way......But I do not know if it even needs to melt either, sorry!!

I tend to think that it cannot be done on induction!!

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 5:19 AM

"I tend to think that it cannot be done on induction!!"

Induction into the Navy???

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#16
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Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 6:52 AM

That would do it!!!

I would love to be in the modern RN. I see it on TV regularly, fantastic!!! Channel 5 UK.

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#21
In reply to #5

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:15 AM

You, Cast Iron is the absolute best, but you have to know how to cook, clean and care for it.

Having Cast Iron cookware is a lot like having a batch of Sourdough Starter around. It's not so much a 'tool' or a 'supply,' it's almost a 'pet,' with all the care and maintenance it requires.

At home, I need to run all the cast iron through the 'Oven Cleaning' cycle and completely reseason from scratch every year, all because one person in the house keeps forgetting that you do NOT put cast iron in soapy water to 'pre-soak' when cleaning.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:23 AM

And heaven help you if they put it in the dishwasher. LoL

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#24
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Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:44 AM

Again, nothing that 'Self-cleaning Oven mode' can't fix; burn EVERYTHING off of/out of the cast iron, brush the ash off to reveal the shiny silver iron, wire-brush away the worst of the rust, then reheat and reseason. Vegetable oil for all the kitchen cookware, peanut oil for everything used on the outdoor charcoal grill. (Old camping trick, peanut oil does not go rancid, so the cookware can be stored for an extended period of time between uses.)

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#30
In reply to #24

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:40 AM

All oils go rancid.

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#35
In reply to #30

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:27 PM

So peanut oil goes bad after three years. Even for camping cookware that's only used one weekend a year, it'll be fine.

Also, Peanut oil is the longest lasting oil on the list, and it's nearest competitors, are either more expensive and/or impart a stringer taste to the food (not sure how strong a flavor hazelnut oil has, I'm assuming it's close to the hazelnut flavoring in the coffee creamer.)

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#39
In reply to #35

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:52 PM

When using any oil to create a coating on any frying pan, the coating that's left after the first use (or after "curing" in an oven) is mostly NOT oil, so I don't think rancidity should be a problem. If I'm wrong, I'm quite willing to be educated further.

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#52
In reply to #21

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 5:05 PM

all because one person in the house keeps forgetting that you do NOT put cast iron in soapy water to 'pre-soak' when cleaning.

Been there, tried to clean it but failed so brought them a new one.

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#59
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Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 9:37 AM

At my house, we only have a few kitchen-use cast iron implements, the one that gets the most use would technically be the cast-iron grate on the stovetop, but that doesn't get 'seasoned,' I just pop it in the self-clean oven every spring to burn the year's buildup of crud and grease, brush off the ash, then put the silvery grates back on the stove. They're back to cast-iron black within a month.

Most of the cast iron cookware is for the charcoal grill. it has its own cast-iron grates, and the 'accessories' I get for it are usually either stainless steel or cast iron.

You would be amazed at the praise I got for the potato slices I had grilled up as a side to the steaks one day, I just used my little cast iron skillet and fried them up right next to the meat. Nothing special, just cast iron, and a little butter, since you HAVE to fry in some sort of 'fat' or 'oil.' Some people just forget that 'perfectly even, through and through' food is actually somewhat boring, that a little variation from bite to bite adds interest, anticipation and surprise to the meal, which makes everything seem 'better.'

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#8

Re: Frying Pan

03/08/2016 10:55 PM

My point of view is this: Take a look at some OLD pans. If, as Solar Eagle says, your pan coating only lasts 6 months, then you should not use them! We have mostly stainless steel, and although some of them have been overheated in the 48 years we've owned them, and so have a little discoloration, otherwise they look pretty much the same as they did when we bought them. We also have a few much more expensive stainless pans that are only a few years old, and they too look pretty much like new.

We do have a couple of non-stick frying pans that we only use occasionally (perhaps twice a month), but we always use plastic or wooden utensils in them to avoid scratching. They are in the range of 10-15 years old, and if you look closely there are a few scratches, but generally speaking, the non-stick coating is pretty much intact. If the Teflon is still intact after that long, then we aren't ingesting much!

One other point is that those elements that are very active (like the Fluorine in Teflon) form very strong bonds, which are not easily broken. I've had Teflon insulators in an antenna up on my roof for about 45 years, and those insulators look just like they did when I made them, while other plastic insulators decomposed years ago. If you should ingest a few flakes of Teflon, they'll just pass on through with no effect.

Now it is true: if you accidentally let a Teflon-lined pan go dry while on high heat, the decomposition will produce nasty stuff, and you should get out of the house immediately, and hold your breath while you go back inside to open the windows!

In contrast, My mom used mostly cast aluminum, and by the time I got old enough to notice (early high school) they were deeply pitted. We had at least one drawn aluminum pan where the pit penetrated the full thickness. This clearly means that aluminum was dissolving in our food, and I have avoided it ever since.

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#108
In reply to #8

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 12:18 PM

"In contrast, My mom used mostly cast aluminum, and by the time I got old enough to notice (early high school) they were deeply pitted. We had at least one drawn aluminum pan where the pit penetrated the full thickness. This clearly means that aluminum was dissolving in our food, and I have avoided it ever since."

First off, You were eating food cooked on these pans from first teething until high school, and you came out fine, so you clearly did not ingest a hazardous amount of aluminum.

Secondly, what was she cooking in those pans? Pitting is a sign of chemical corrosion, not heat degradation, so something in the menu was 'eating' the pan.

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#111
In reply to #108

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 1:35 PM

"First off, You were eating food cooked on these pans from first teething until high school"

Correct!

"and you came out fine"

Pretty much, although I have no way of knowing whether there might be a connection between the aluminum (and/or the zillion other industrial products we are all exposed to) and my continuing allergy? and other problems.

"so you clearly did not ingest a hazardous amount of aluminum."

I'd replace "clearly" with "probably", or some other less definite adverb.

"Secondly, what was she cooking in those pans?"

Every cooked food we ate! All fruits, including tomatoes, contain acids, and these do clearly dissolve aluminum. There may or may not be any health risks associated with that dissolved aluminum, but why take unnecessary chances?

Since my 50-year-old 304-S stainless pots still are free of pitting (I just examined the three of them that are currently empty, and could not find a single pit, even at the spot weld locations where the handles are attached), I trust them completely. The other SS pots are currently in the refrigerator, storing the cooked foods. I'd NEVER store any liquid in an aluminum container.

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#112
In reply to #111

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 2:07 PM

"...why take unnecessary chances?"

The unknown is all chance.

It's when you make a choice whose outcome is known, but not fully, that you take an unnecessary chance.

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#115
In reply to #112

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 2:23 PM

I'm afraid I don't quite follow your logic.

Nothing can be known fully, so according to your statement, everything one does is an unnecessary chance.

If I know aluminum dissolves in food, and this stainless does not, then avoiding aluminum for cooking seems to me an obvious choice.

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#116
In reply to #112

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 2:29 PM

"It's when you make a choice whose outcome is known, but not fully, that you take an unnecessary chance."

I'm not sure that is the best description, since almost no outcome is FULLY known.

I would say the distinction between necessary and unnecessary chances are based on the relative outcomes verses choosing to do the other option.

Traveling to work every day, and facing the hazards of traffic twice a day, is a necessary chance, since the alternative is not going to work, and getting fired, which leaves you without income.

Juggling meat cleavers, and facing the hazard of getting a meat cleaver cleaving your face in two, is an unnecessary chance, since the alternative, NOT juggling meat cleavers, carries no penalty to your health or well being.

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#114
In reply to #111

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 2:20 PM

"I'd NEVER store any liquid in an aluminum container."

So you don't drink any sodas from cans, or from soda fountains? Just from bottles? (The syrup concentrate used in the fountains is typically shipped/stored in aluminum 'kegs.')

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#117
In reply to #114

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 2:37 PM

As a matter of fact, I try not to drink any sodas at all, but that's another thread...

I believe all those aluminum cans are lined with some form of plastic, so the contents don't come in contact with the aluminum. Any cans with flaws in the plastic will leak if kept for any significant time. Whether that plastic is safe is still another thread..

All the metal kegs I've seen were stainless steel, but I think I've only seen and used the ones for beer and wine. I've never paid attention to the syrup containers. If they do make them from aluminum, I'd bet they are plastic or otherwise lined. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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#119
In reply to #114

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 2:53 PM

I do believe that all the kegs and cans made from Aluminium are coated inside...for that reason....

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#120
In reply to #114

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 10:56 PM

Plastic jugs in corrugated cardboard boxes in becoming more popular.

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#121
In reply to #120

Re: Frying Pan

05/19/2016 11:48 PM

I'd call them bags or bladders. Indeed, they are excellent, as no air needs to enter the container when it is only partially emptied.

We currently buy around half of our wine in that type of package. I keep thinking about making a rack to hold them up at an appropriate height for pouring into the wine glasses, but haven't done it yet...

The only weakness I've encountered is that once opened, a few of them have not sealed well. We simply store them on their side, with the spout up.

I've never detected any trace of plastic odor/aroma (I just double-checked, as I happen to have a glass of "Black Box" sitting beside me as I write), so I presume that means an extremely small amount, if any, plasticizer or other chemical is leaching from the plastic into the wine.

I'm not sure about the environmental impact. Although it takes a lot less plastic to make a bag/bladder than a jug, I suspect that virtually none of it gets recycled...

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#10

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:35 AM

Cast Iron. Don't wash it with soap or detergent, just hot water and dry it off. Use a Steel-wool scrubber to smooth it out, and never worry about plastics poisoning you. Season with a high temp oil like peanut or avocado and high heat to smoking temp and do it in an oven. Let cool and scrub in hot water.

It is a surface that gets better with age. It becomes harder and more non-stick as you go so long as you follow these rules. Nothing else will outlast it. Cooking acidic food in it will add iron to your diet to boot!

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#105
In reply to #10

Re: Frying Pan

04/27/2016 6:34 PM

Agreed, except for one thing. Skip the steel wool scrubber, and use a few tablespoons of salt and a wad of disposable cloth. No water, until you're rinsing out the salt. My cast iron loves this method, and there is no steel getting in the mix.

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#11

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 1:56 AM

Haven't seen any mention of the so called Stoneware pans.

Some of these incorporate diamond particles in the surface, they don't use PFOA, and are guaranteed for life (in Australia that means that you will get a replacement anytime in the future if the product fails).

Others use Stone chips and have around 15 years warranty. We use them, they are nigh on impossible to damage and are still perfectly nonstick a number of years after purchase.

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#27
In reply to #11

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:18 AM

I presume those won't work on an induction cooktop/hob.

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#32
In reply to #11

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:50 AM

You mean that some of them DO use perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA)?

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:34 PM

Probably brought up as a marketing gimmick:

"Buy our brand of rice, we guarantee it is 100% gluten free! Can the competing rice brand claim that?" (ALL rice is 'gluten free,' even Glutenous Rice, the sticky rice used for making sushi. Gluten is a protein found in WHEAT, not rice. The similarity between Gluten, Glutenous, and Glue are because all three words are descriptive names, based on the same root word for 'sticky.' Wheat Gluten is the protein that makes the dough sticky, and which allows the bubbles within the dough to hold together during rising, so the bread comes out of the oven so soft and chewy.)

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#12

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 4:37 AM

Titanium is a very poor conductor of heat, which is what makes it relatively difficult to machine, and also the property that would make it unsuitable for use as a frying pan.

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#13

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 4:55 AM

Ones I've noticed in the stores recently are aluminium with a ceramic coating, haven't tried them. Like others, I have mostly stainless cookware plus some vitreous enameled baking trays which last for ever.

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#17

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 8:30 AM

I have to chime in with my 2cents worth on cast iron:

The seasoning of a cast iron pan is done by coating the surface with oil or lard and

putting it in a 450F oven for an hour or so,until the oils carbonize.

After that,hardly anything sticks to it.

Use any type of spatula,it wont scratch.

The only leaching into the food is iron,which is useful to the body.

Modern women do not like them because they are heavy,and not easy to handle.

The older women kept their iron grip from using these heavy weights all the time.

They also used the type of irons that you placed on top of the wood stove to heat up.

They weighed about 15 pounds,solid cast iron.

Their vise-like grip was very handy when grabbing kids by the arm and holding on

while they were receiving their well deserved corporal punishment.

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#18

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 9:18 AM

As many have noted, Cast iron. When properly seasoned and cared for. (I personally do not prefer the "preseasoned" ones) these pans are indestructible. I personal have several that have been in my family for generations (Wagner ware) and use them everyday. I especially like using them when camping because of their easy to clean nature. (minimal water required)

After that I prefer Copper clad stainless steel. (copper on the bottom) such as Revereware. I have two large 20" frying pans that were my grandmothers. Although the bottoms may not be as pretty as they once were, again they are indestructible and heat very evenly. They are not nonstick by any stretch, but proper cooking technique eliminates most problems.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:11 AM

"Although the bottoms may not be as pretty as they once were..."
That happens with age.

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:39 AM

"After that I prefer Copper clad stainless steel. (copper on the bottom) such as Revereware."

That stuff is good.

A few years ago my family won a new set of pans that are stainless steel with a thick copper slug on the bottom, instead of just copper plating. (The copper disk is protected on the bottom by another layer of Stainless Steel, so aside from the odd, 'welded on foot' they look like common Stainless Steel with the brand name of a famous chef on the bottom.) Those pots and pans are wonderful, it's like they never have hot/cold spots at all, the cooking is so even. The 'problem' with them is you have to monitor the food more closely when cooking from a 'generations old' recipe, as the food will typically be ready 'ahead of schedule' if you follow the old cooking times to the letter.

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#25
In reply to #18

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 10:48 AM

"(I personally do not prefer the "preseasoned" ones)"

Good call there.

'Preseasoned' cast iron is typically 'seasoned' with parafin wax, so it can be shipped around the globe, and stored for YEARS before being sold to the consumer.

It's the same reason many 'fresh bought' tools have a slick feel to them; they've been coated in machine oil so they don't rust in 'neglected storage' before the sale.

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#28

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:19 AM

None of those who are praising cast iron frying pans have mentioned their major drawback. Their weight. Cast iron pans are heavy because they are thick. That distributes the heat evenly and is seen as a major benefit but is not the reason they are thick. Thin cast iron would be too brittle to retain the durability that you are all raving about. Almost any metal pan that had the same weight as a cast iron one would distribute the heat evenly and would be more durable. My wife is small, five feet nothing, and weighs very little with her socks on and much less with them off. She can't safely lift a cast iron frying pan. After all it is very poorly designed. A heavy weight made worse because the weight is concentrated on the end off a long handle, filled with hot food that if spilled would cause serious burns. If any of us as engineers were to sit down today to design a frying pan from scratch this is one option that we would immediately discount as being ergonomically unsound. Better to reduce the weight substantially and possibly put a counterbalance pommel on the handle. Cast iron frying pans are still being manufactured though why when there are so many better alternatives beats me. A massive marketing effort goes into selling them as something their grandparents used, because their grandparents did not know any better, and did not have the materials and manufacturing techniques available that we have today. As for seasoning these pans, if you use a material that is unsuitable for cooking in the first place you then have to find ways of making it work.

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:49 AM

When people are afraid of aluminum and 'high temperature non-stick coatings' leaching into their food(1)(2), the only option LEFT is seasoned cast iron.

Notes:

  1. Not that either of those WOULD leach into food under normal circumstances, but once people become Fearful, it's hard to purge the fear out of them.
  2. That's one of the reasons that tomatoes were originally thought to be poisonous, the acids in the tomatoes were leaching the lead out of the pewter tableware of the era. The pewter was safe for food before the tomato was added to the menu, so people thought the tomato was the sole cause. Now we as a society know better, but some people still think 'pewter is fine for food, tomatoes are poison.' Aluminum, BHA, wheat gluten, and any 'sorcerous science' material that people don't understand are the new 'boogiemen(3).'
  3. We even have that with 'social corruption.' There are groups who say ALL videogames are harmful to children and should be banned. You know what they were protesting before videogames? Rap music. What did they hate before there was rap? Dungeons & Dragons. Before D&D was around to be the 'social evil?' They were protesting BRIDGE, not the structural device to cross open spans, the card game. Some people just live to hate and fear what they do not understand, or what is new. They want to exclude everything that is new or different from 'what they remember,' they want to Conserve their 'vision of yesteryear,' a vision heavily tinted with nostalgia, where they ignore all the bad things that were happening and only think of how the good must have been so wonderful.
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#38
In reply to #31

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:44 PM

"When people are afraid of aluminum and 'high temperature non-stick coatings' leaching into their food(1)(2), the only option LEFT is seasoned cast iron."

See my post #8 of this thread. There is a HUGE difference between aluminum and non-stick coatings. Aluminum is fairly soluble in mild acid solutions, and definitely does leach into the food. Someone else mentioned a possible connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's disease. My mother lived a bit past 100, but the last 6 years were a total waste, due to Alzheimer's. I know that proves nothing, but it does add a bit of credence.

I also know that there are many non-stick surface compounds, and the only one I really know anything about is Teflon, but I suspect that all the others must have similar properties. In order to withstand the temperatures of frying, and the acids of other cooking, they must be pretty stable compounds. I'd bet that there are significant dangers to people who work in the factories applying the coatings to the pans, but once applied and cured (whatever that means), I'm quite confident that small bits that might get scraped off of the non-stick coating will pass right on through our bodies with no effect, just like the bits of sand that infants pick up.

When you say "...the only option LEFT is seasoned cast iron.", I totally disagree. Since I am such a big fan of induction cooking, the principal option for me is magnetic stainless steel. That can mean solid stainless steel of a magnetic alloy, like my Presto™ pressure cooker purchased around 45 year ago, or non-magnetic stainless cladding over a magnetic core, like my Hudson-Ware by Vollrath™ pots purchased around 48 years ago, or any of the current stainless cookware that specify Induction Compatibility.

For those who use gas, Calrods, or radiant heating (or any other possible source of heat) there are glass, earthenware, ceramic, stone, and I'm sure others. If you are really paranoid, then fused quartz should be a good choice.

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#47
In reply to #38

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 2:33 PM

Cast iron you appear to imply that it is not induction compatible.

When you say "...the only option LEFT is seasoned cast iron.", I totally disagree. Since I am such a big fan of induction cooking, the principal option for me is magnetic stainless steel.

It actually works better than anything else on induction stove tops I have found!! In fact, the induction stove tops appear to have been "tuned" to cast iron perfectly.....

If I misunderstood you, my apologies

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 2:46 PM

Apparently you didn't notice the quotes around that phrase. I was quoting (and contradicting) adreasler.

Again, see my post #8 of this thread. We have cast iron, and my wife uses it nearly every day. On the other hand, I just looked, and the large cast iron frying pans are no longer collecting dust under the counter, as they were for years. I'd forgotten that we gave them to one of the local thrift stores, since the modern, much lighter stainless frying pans (either with or without non-stick coating) work perfectly on the induction cooktop.

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#54
In reply to #38

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 8:44 PM

The above is a quote from your post. (sorry i can't put " and " around it ) You said that al. has been connected to Alzheimers. I can tell you that the reason that particular research made that claim was exactly for the same reason you made the connection. Al. as cookware is fairly new and the escalation of dementias is also a fairly new phenomenon and so the link was made. And just as you felt the link is tenuous at best so did many others. Further research has not shown any link. Lead from petrol is a better candidate but lead has been properly linked to diminished brain function not dementias. Your mother may have had senile dementia and not Alzheimers. Still to this date Alzheimers cannot be positively diagnosed until after death.

Sorry, got to cut short here.

Jim

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#57
In reply to #54

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 12:19 AM

I have no argument with any of your points... There is still MUCH to be learned.

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#55
In reply to #38

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 9:54 PM

I used to have 1 cast iron fry pan that I religiously used to season with vegetable oil either in the oven or on a burner. Tried to convince people not to use soap but simply lightly clean with steel wool. Finally gave up when it kept showing up in the dishwasher. Currently use Farber ware SS with an aluminum clad bottom on the outside. I am still using an aluminum griddle from my parents. It is not cast aluminum but a formed griddle. It has to be at least 60 years old, probably made in late 40's. Most aluminum alloys used in forming processes are mostly aluminum with small amounts of alloying elements compared to cast al. alloys which have much more alloying elements. I never allowed the use of scouring powder and insisted that only Brillo be used to clean it. I also insist that people never use a temperature above a medium heat and NEVER use seasoning, especially salt, when cooking. My mother had a cast aluminum pot that she always used to make rice, always added salt to water. It was so pitted she finally threw it out. The issue of aluminum and Alzheimer's has evidently been dismissed according to the Alzheimer's Organization. http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

Some people can not tolerate additional iron (See Hemochromatosis) and should not use iron cook ware unless completely coated with a non-porous medium.

I have 3 teflon coated skillets (small-medium-large-really large I mean) and I never go more than a medium to low high heat. If my son or son-in-laws use any of the pans, I will a point to turn down the heat if I see them turn it too high. I simply say that I do not using too high a heat with Teflon and I'll hand them a wooden or plastic spoon or fork or spatula to use with it. No one argues and cooks with that limitation. Any pans that start to flake are thrown out and that hasn't happened in a long time.

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#46
In reply to #31

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 2:14 PM

My grandfather once told me that his father, upon seeing for the first time an automobile with four doors, stated "great, something else to break!".

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#61
In reply to #46

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 9:55 AM

Just think what he'd say today.

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#53
In reply to #31

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 6:31 PM

Adreasler,

Tomatoes were considered poisonous for a very long time because they are a member of the nightshade family, not because of the leaching of lead out of pewter (which is a valid point).

--JMM

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#60
In reply to #53

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 9:44 AM

Yes, they had a reputation based on familial closeness, which is why they were blamed instead of the lead in the plates.

It's astounding that lead-tin pewter was used for so long as it was. the Romans knew lead was poisonous, yet they kept digging it up to make the pipes for their drinking water, white base for their cosmetics, and even sprinkled it into bad wine to sweeten it up. "We know it's bad, but just this little bit won't hurt." How did we, as a species, even survive to MAKE it to the Dark Ages?

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#99
In reply to #60

Re: Frying Pan

03/18/2016 10:10 PM

Dumb Luck???

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#34
In reply to #28

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 11:51 AM

My wife can't pick one up because it is so heavy and her right hand doesn't work like it did 20 years ago.

That also comes with age.

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#37
In reply to #34

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 12:39 PM

Lyn, I love you like a- well, like a semi-anonymous stranger I met on an online forum, but I'm not here to solve every little problem you and your wife have in the kitchen.

Although, here's a tip; if you can still lift the heavy cast iron pans, why not assist her with the cooking, even if it's just doing the 'grunt work' of moving the hot, heavy cookware. I'll lay odds she'll appreciate that, and it may even give you two something new to bond over, deepening your relationship. Never too late to become closer to a loved one.

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#41
In reply to #37

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 1:09 PM

Thanks, Bro!

No, we gave the heavy artillery away. Besides, I'd just be in the way if we were both in the kitchen.

My wife prefers different pans for different foods and on those few occasions when I cook inside, I usually use the wrong pan.

So, I cook outside and she cooks inside.

Raising three young boys at our age has brought us closer together than cooking ever could.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 1:20 PM

Right! My wife hates to have me in the kitchen when she's cooking. I have very specific instructions to complete any kitchen duties before she needs to use the kitchen, or wait 'till she's done..

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#45
In reply to #42

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 1:54 PM

My wife banned me from the kitchen when she discovered that I thought the smoke alarm was an egg timer.

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#44
In reply to #28

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 1:49 PM

There is a scale .whose name escapes me now, that rates the speed at which a material distributes heat. Stainless steel rates un the high 90s on a scale of 100. Cast iron is around 0.7 on the same scale. This is why people prize C.I. as a cooking medium. It takes longer to heat up, but retains it's temperature far longer than modern materials and thus provides a constant heat far better than both S.S. and the modern 'miracle materials'. I do use S.S and even somr coated material in cooking but still prefer C.L. The polymerize fat on C.I. provides a non-stick surface that is at least as good at releasing food as most of the modern stuff..

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#50
In reply to #44

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 3:03 PM

"The polymerize fat on C.I. provides a non-stick surface that is at least as good at releasing food as most of the modern stuff.."

Also makes cleaning easier, if you remember to do it right:

  • Heat the pan back up to cooking temperature (if you allowed it to cool off)
  • Pour a small amount of HOT water (not cold, not lukewarm, HOT) onto the pan
  • lightly scrape stubborn bits with a metal spatula.
  • hang to drip dry and cool off

(This also explains why Grandma's cast iron was all hanging on the wall like some sort of 'kitchen art,' since you're hanging it up when done washing it, might as well use the same hook for storage until you need it again.)

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#100
In reply to #44

Re: Frying Pan

03/18/2016 10:18 PM

Would that be thermal conductivity?

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#103
In reply to #100

Re: Frying Pan

03/19/2016 12:20 AM

Not with a maximum value of 100!. Since silver is the best metallic conductor of heat (Diamond is better, but is not a metal; graphite is even better in the parallel direction), I suspect that the value of 100 refers to the thermal conductivity of silver. Any other metal or alloy will have a lower value.

I HIGHLY doubt Bluebelly's statement: "Stainless steel rates un [sic] the high 90s on a scale of 100." The thermal conductivity of silver near room temperature is 429 (W/m K), while the thermal conductivity of copper is 401, Aluminum is 237, Iron is 80, and Stainless steel is 14. (from the Physics Hypertextbook 12/8/11). Of course there are many alloys called Stainless Steel, and there will be variation among them.

On the other hand, since Stainless steel is such a poor conductor of heat, it gives the heat time to spread out. Perhaps that's what Bluebelly was referring to...

Fortunately, in induction cooking the heat is generated directly in the metal of the pot/pan, so it does not have to be conducted very far before it gets transferred to the food.

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#29

Re: Another material option for non-stick

03/09/2016 11:30 AM

Another Option is to use Ceramic Pans

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#33
In reply to #29

Re: Another material option for non-stick

03/09/2016 11:51 AM

Yeah, ceramic non-stick is really good.

As long as you remember to properly 'pre-season' it with cooking oil before you use it the first time.

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#40
In reply to #29

Re: Another material option for non-stick

03/09/2016 12:53 PM

You mean ceramic coated I suspect.....

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#43
In reply to #40

Re: Another material option for non-stick

03/09/2016 1:48 PM

That's what most people mean by 'ceramic pans,' right? Those 'non-stick, burn a cheese omelette in one and the mess just falls off when you tilt the pan' units that are being sold on the infomercials.

(On a side note, that 'dump cake' lady is a joke: "Here's a secret, mix up a box cake mix according to the directions, pour it into this brand of non-stick pan, then 'dump on the good stuff' and you're baking a special treat!" No, you're following the packaged directions, then adding meltable toppings before baking. I'm not even sure if that counts as a separate recipe from the one on the cake mix box.)

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#49
In reply to #43

Re: Another material option for non-stick

03/09/2016 2:46 PM

Ceramic knives are just that if you forget what the handle is made of.

Most Ceramic coated pans are mostly metal, with a very thin coat of ceramic, usually only on the inside....there are ones just made of ceramic, but they need oil or fat or they will stick!!

So if you run the percentages, its probably an aluminium or stainless pan if non-stick!!

See this website:-

toxic-cookware-and-cutlery

and read:-

2. Non-Stick Ceramic Coated Pans To make the so-called ceramic coatings, a metal pot is dipped into or sprayed with a plastic (chemically based polymer) solution. As these synthetic, plastic-like coatings are softer than metal, the surface degrades with normal use. The life expectancy of a nonstick ceramic-coated pot is about one year. Once the synthetic coating wears thin, pits or scratches, toxic metals from the underlying metal can leach into foodstuffs. And the coating itself may contain toxic metals like arsenic.

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#51

Re: Frying Pan

03/09/2016 3:28 PM

Been following this thread and after so many different options came up, I decided to reach out to my mom, because I remember that she has all different kinds... multiple materials per similar pot/pan type.

She replied... "because they're like shoes." After a bit of silence on my part, because I couldn't make the connection, she said (paraphrased):

You might have a favorite pair that are general purpose all-around every day sneakers, but you don't ware them in the house, you have a good pair of house shoes for that.

Then she asked me, "You play golf and basketball still, right?" "Do you ware your basketball shoes to play golf in, and can you ware your golf shoes on the court?"

Essentially, after a long and enlightening conversation, she uses different materials for different purposes... frying vs. searing vs. browning, saute, acidic sauce vs. stock soup vs. stewed red meat, and she said quantity (large family gathering) vs. quality (she wants make herself 'the perfect omelet') vs. time (she has all day to prep-cook-clean or she's in a hurry) all impact what type of cookware she uses.

She said the main thing she looks for though is that they can go from cook-top to oven to grill... so no plastic handles.

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#56
In reply to #51

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 12:00 AM

First, Thanks for the contribution. general points well taken, but...

Please note that "ware" is a noun, as in "hardware". You don't "ware" a pair of shoes, you "wear" them. The pronunciation is indeed identical for most people, but the spelling must agree with the meaning!

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#58
In reply to #56

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 3:26 AM

Actually the word "ware" can be a noun, a verb, or an adjective.

I'm sure that everyone who read the relevant post understood what was intended, and it wasn't posted under the cover of anonymity either.

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#62
In reply to #58

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 9:57 AM

"Ware" as a verb or adjective is a poetic shortening of "aware" or "beware" (itself a shortened form of 'be aware').

We all understood what you meant, and assumed 'ware' was a typographic misspelling of 'wear,' we're all guilty of teh same thing from time to time, most people don't bother to point it out, as part of the evolving traditions of 'net etiquette.'

Casual conversation is allowed typos and misused homonyms, a formal document, however, bust be free of all misspellings and ambiguous statements, as it is likely that a lawyer will be called in to tear it apart if there is a dispute over the meaning or fulfillment of the document.

(In case you're wondering, I DID set this up as a self-demonstrating post.)

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#64
In reply to #62

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 3:03 PM

Indeed, it was a typographical error that likely resulted from the topic of cookware subconsciously carrying over to all where's ;-) And thanks to all that defended.

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#63
In reply to #56

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 2:27 PM

First, GFY!

At least the person you belittled made a meaningful contribution to the thread!

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#66
In reply to #63

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 6:33 PM

I guess you could consider it belittleing. I was simply trying to correct an error. When I make errors, I want someone to point them out, so I won't repeat them! How can anyone eliminate an error if they don't realize that they are committing that error? I did perceive that some people might be offended, which is why I posted anonymously then and now.

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 6:54 PM

"When I make errors, I want someone to point them out, so I won't repeat them"

Good, then don't post anonymously to correct minor grammatical errors in an already anonymous forum. You have no standing here then.

That's Tornado's job.

If you can't stand behind a statement you make, given that the forum is inherently anonymous anyway, don't bother.

Anyone who has the curiosity can go back and view my (and other up front posters) history can do so. You, on the other hand, have no identity/history/personality by which others can judge your posts.

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#102
In reply to #67

Re: Frying Pan

03/18/2016 10:57 PM

I guess that question about what info in the left hand box is useful, even though many of us disagreed on what we look at first!

BTW-Like the new avatar and your explanation of it's meaning.

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#68
In reply to #66

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 8:12 PM

So this is an issue between pseudonymity, anonymity, and tact.

This forum is based on pseudonymity, not anonymity. Reason being, although we want to protect our online presence from our real-life identified - for a number of safety reasons - we still want to establish an historical body of work associated to our pseudonym in order to add weight and validity to our contributions - and also maintain a level of professional accountability.

Anonymity reduces the accountability one perceives to have for their actions, and removes the impact these actions might otherwise have on their reputation - thus allowing them to be tactless. Combined with having a pre-disposition to knowing your comment would likely offend, yet still deciding to make it - you chose anonymity over tact - which, by definition, is the 'acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending.'

Thus one can surmise that it was your original intent to offend while in the process of correcting. This is why others challenged and confronted you; we don't take too kindly to those that desired to offend intentionally while simultaneously hiding behind the veil of anonymity.

For the record, I do not mind being corrected. In fact, I openly invite it - it's how one gets better and grows in all facets of knowledge and interaction. Correcting my 'ware' vs. 'wear' could have been pointed out quite easily in a tactful manner thus avoiding your need to be further anonymous.

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#101
In reply to #51

Re: Frying Pan

03/18/2016 10:40 PM

Mom had a collection of pots and pans that were what she called agate.

She had a roasting pan, dark blue with what appeared to be white spots always used at Thanksgiving to cook the turkey.

I think my daughter still has it. Most recently used last Thanksgiving, to cook the turkey of course.

Would these have been considered "ceramic"?

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#104
In reply to #101

Re: Frying Pan

03/19/2016 12:23 AM

I remember those... Vitrified (glazed) steel, if I'm not mistaken.

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#65

Re: Frying Pan

03/10/2016 6:21 PM

I have a ton of cast iron pans. Well at least more than you can pick up at once.

We are getting into enameled cast iron and glass cookware. The cool thing about glass is (Pyrex) is you can go strait from the the fridge to the oven or microwave. You can store food in it, cook in it, and eat out of it. Cuts down on dishwashing.

And we like our stainless steel pressure cookers too.

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#72

Re: Frying Pan

03/11/2016 1:11 PM

Tried most the non-stick stuff. If you want to call it non-stick. Still haven't found any thing that preforms like well season cast iron. Or is as durable.

Even a plain SS fry pan can be non stick if heated right with oil in it.

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