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Flame Detector Orientation Check

05/25/2016 2:57 AM

Hi Gents,

I would like to check the orientation for the installed flame detectors. The mapping documents saying that the orientation for the particular detector is E 296.141, N 382.606 and 135 deg. I am little confusion about this and frankly speaking I don't know how to check this orientation and which instruments I need to use. If anybody can give the right directions then it will be the great help to me to sort out this issue. waiting for your valuable feedback.

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#1

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 3:07 AM

Anybody who writes a spec to six significant figures should probably have a sanity check.

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#2

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 3:10 AM

Yes, indeed. In the absence of the installation and operation manual that came with it, the manufacturer of the equipment can usually advise over the telephone. Do let the forum know how the call went, for the information may well be of value to other readers.

BTW, <...Gents...> implies that all readers of this forum are male; this is not the case.

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#3

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 3:14 AM

Some of the information is rather location information and not orientation. The 135 deg sounds like the orientation and could be related to anything. Maybe its True North or grid north. Who knows?

How about a visual check of the sensor?

Still do not know what the issue is!

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 3:29 AM

The issue is some times the detector providing the false alarm during the compressor change over. When the change over takes place the flare will be high but the flare stack is installed behind the detector but I suspecting that the high flare is cuaing the reflection effect on some of the matal areas shich are focussed by the detector. But before going to that point I need to confirm the original installation of the detector is based on the mapping study.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 3:37 AM

Time to read the mapping study and how it was supposed to be done and compare it with the reality. Should be easy.

But there is so many unknowns in your question:

1. Compressors, flames and flares? What are you working on?

2. Flame detector of what sort?

3. False alarm means flame on or off? (do not bother it will just add to the whole picture and has no meaning otherwise)

I'd stick with a visual check to answer your question for now.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 4:28 AM

Dear, This flame detectors are installed in our gas processing plant LP/HP knock out drum area and focussed to that vessels. The plant's flare stack is installed behind the flame detectors ( detectors are focussed away to the flare stack). If the high flare occuring at the flare tip of the flare stack due to the change over of the sales gas compressor the detectors are activating (suspecting this is happening due to the reflection by some of the reflective metal parts). The model number of the detectors are Honeywell FS24X triple IR flame detector.

I need to know how to check the orientation.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 6:59 AM

...and the reason the equipment manufacturer has not been involved so far is what, please?

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 8:32 AM

Oh, almost sounds like they are oriented the wrong way! None the less the course of action is to find out how to properly orient them:

1. This allows to check if they are oriented the wrong way because only if you now the correct orientation you'll know when it is wrong

2. by knowing how to correctly put them you can get rid of the error!

Honeywell is a reputed company. Was the phone call not successful? Maybe you'll need to move the flare ... (sorry could not resist).

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 11:12 AM

..."Detectors should not be mounted so that they look up or face the horizon (especially outdoors). Use a minimum thirty degrees (30┬░) downward angle with the SM4 swivel mount (see Figure 2-1)."...

http://microwatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1998M0901_FS24X_EN_RevA.pdf

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 12:46 PM

Are those some mm reading of the compass, because here we only go up to 360┬░....

Galveston Island, Texas, USA, is located at 29 degrees, 16 minutes, and 22 seconds north of the equator, and 94 degrees, 49 minutes and 46 seconds west of the Prime Meridian....

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 2:11 PM

29 e and 38 n is somewhere in Turkey near Usak.....and 135 degrees, with north as up, is about 40 degrees downward angle...

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Flame detector orientation check

05/25/2016 11:24 AM

The original design drawings should give an "aiming point" in both vertical and horizontal planes.

This aiming point takes into consideration the "half power cone of vision" of the device, and determines how many devices are required to obtain adequate coverage.

The aiming point and device quantity required cannot be determined with the information you have provided.

Also, if your flare is causing (not really) false alarms, change fire detection vendors. Your current vendor is a little lacking in the shielding department. A shield between your flare and the detector(s) is probably all you need to solve your problem.

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#13

Re: Flame Detector Orientation Check

05/25/2016 3:55 PM

Related to what? E 296.141, N 382.606 are obviously displacement from some reference point. Units are not specified. 135 degrees with respect to what? If there aren't any pictures in the mapping document, you need to contact whoever wrote the document or talk to someone else who has used it.

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#14

Re: Flame Detector Orientation Check

05/26/2016 2:49 PM

Not sure about the flame detector, but the drone should be arriving shortly based on the coordinates you sent to us. only one small problem, it has orbited the earth already twice trying to reach the polar coordinates given. Sounds like you want the flames to be straight up and one mile east.

OK, I have your solution: tuck your shirt in your pants. Pull up your tie. tie your shoelaces. Walk out the front door, and never look back or risk being turned to salt.

OR, you could walk over to the flare tower, travel precisely 296.141 meter E, 382.606 meters north, then face the tower and look up at a 135 degree angle, whereupon you will see the flare. Really? You just had to ask, didn't you?

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