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Cutting Steel Bar

06/19/2016 9:24 PM

Hi every one.

Any idea how to cut steel bar 20mm x 40mm in very precise and smooth manner ?

Thanks for your help.

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#1

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 9:41 PM

How many?

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 10:05 PM

Few pieces - for prototype experminal work..

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 10:10 PM

It all depends on accuracy (1/16" or 0.005") and what you want to pay. Costs are proportional to quality.

there are good quality chop saws.

Btw, All some suppliers will do it, especially the low run suppliers.

McMaster Carr for one.

Www.mcmaster.com

There are others, also. do you already have the material, if not. Check out some suppliers on the web.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 10:21 PM

What about laser cut ??

Any affordable laser cutting tool ??

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 10:50 PM

How deep is your wallet.

lasers are better with plate. 5 axis laser are used for intricate tube cutting

a large laser 5,000 watt can cut through 1" plate, but keep in mind, of the heat that is generated and kerf. A laser may have a minimum price requirement. Also they are normally, $130.00-$200.00/HR.

With the info you supplied a Chop saw is your best bet.

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#21
In reply to #8

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/21/2016 8:16 AM

There are also some rather inexpensive band saws available which would likely do what the OP wants done as well.

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#44
In reply to #8

Re: Cutting steel bar

07/15/2016 1:38 PM

You have never specified surface finish of cut, even after your level of precision. We cut round bar here at work everyday. Many different alloys.

Often, the cut faces have to be machined, depending on the precision and surface finish required.

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#46
In reply to #44

Re: Cutting steel bar

07/15/2016 1:56 PM

good question,... but, not my problem. I don't believe he's cutting round bar...

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 10:53 PM

<Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life here>

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#2

Re: Cutting steel bar

06/19/2016 9:42 PM

Try a search.

Just find a search engine, like Google, and ask it to give you the basic information that is available everywhere.

It is so easy that even a child can do it.

Try it.

The information you provided is inadequate for any reasonable answer.

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#6

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/19/2016 10:22 PM

http://www.makita.com.au/products/power-tools/cutting/cold-metal-cutting-saws/lc1230-305mm-metal-cutting-saw

I have owned one of these for 10yrs now and i find it very good. It is quicker and cooler than a friction (abrasive) type of drop saw. You don't say how precise you want the cut nor do you say in which way you want the precision. Do you want it to cut dead square? Do you want the length to be exact? Those two properties are more about the work holding than the type of cutter. Is the cut length 1mm or 1M?

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#7

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/19/2016 10:23 PM

Cut it with a chopsaw and file it smooth and finish with a fine sandpaper reducing grit until 1000, then polish with buffing wheel....

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#10

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 12:35 AM

Watercut may also work, but it REALLY depends on the accuracy you are after.

Dropsaw cut to a larger size and then fine polish down to the correct size is likely your best bet, especially if you only need a few samples.

What's the application, what is the steel for? What tolerance are you looking for?

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#11

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 12:45 AM

These work good too....any welding metal shop should have one of these...

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#19
In reply to #11

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 2:50 AM

I've seen some of those that can get within maybe 5º of a straight cut, maybe better with quite a bit of fiddling.

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#22
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 8:22 AM

5° isn't a very good cut. If the material is clamped properly, you can do a lot better. Of course the more one pays for a bandsaw, the better quality cut one should obtain. I use bandsaws all the time on large volume runs(bundles of steel up to 24" square) and if I cannot hold a true vertical cut then there is something wrong with either the material clamping or the actual cutting blade.

Even the cheaper units available can give an good straight cut if properly used. I have use those as well with good results for short runs.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 12:37 PM

I thought the 5º would be recognized as humor.

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#25
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 12:48 PM

Actually,,,, I have seen saws in use in such bad condition that they could be out the 5°. And if blade changes aren't done on a timely basis, it could happen as well.☺☺

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#12

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 4:05 AM

Yes. However, in order to advise the correct choice, the words <...very precise and smooth manner...> need to be defined.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 1:27 PM

Smooth and precise, is more of an attitude and manner, than a specification....

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#13

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 10:09 AM

Blimey, what are you lot on?

If you want it accurate, you don't cut it "to size" you cut slightly over and have it machined or ground to whatever tolerance you want.
Del

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 10:18 AM

well, there are a few words that hasn't been determined, and that is; Accuracy and tolerance, as well as if these items are already cut and now they have to be cut to size.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 7:11 PM

Unfortunately, Ollie the Trolley has jumped the track.

A quality cut-off saw, run by a skilled operator can cut metal pieces with .005" tolerance all day, once set up properly.

The OP doesn't know what he wants.

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#17

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 10:37 PM

Has everyone forgotten about a cold saw they will cut over and over to exact dimensions if you set the stops correctly with very little clean up. Just a fine polish of the edge with a file or emery paper.

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#18

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/20/2016 10:55 PM

How precise must it be?

How smooth must it be?

Hacksaw with a good eye and a steady hand may be adequate? or a power hacksaw?

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#20

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 4:00 AM

<...very precise...> The effect of change of temperature needs to be stated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre

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#23

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 8:40 AM

Do You have a Lathe? If so just use a cutoff tool.

Or cut it long and finish to size on lathe with facing tool.

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#26

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 4:00 PM

I spoke with my friend Clark, Clarke Kent, he will pop over and eyeball this steel for you. Just mark where you want the cuts .

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#27

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 4:57 PM

Yes, take it to the shop in Minnesota that does water-jet cutting. They can cut this really easily, and have a purely flat face (within your specification), the steel not the operator of the cutting machine.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/21/2016 9:55 PM

James, have you have seen or operated a waterjet?

If you were to cut through one side to the other the the jet would get deflected and erode away your material as well as your waterjet mixing tube. Not to mention moving the head to keep a decent clearance as you cut, as well as varying the speed as you cut..... (Sorry, I though it was a round bar., I just left it, ignore the first 8 words of next paragraph )

and even if you start top dead center, by the time it erodes through the bar, your material would have a huge lead kerf, and with that thickness, your draft on your kerf would be at least 2-4 degrees, even with a new ruby or diamond Focus and a new mixing tube.

and as it exits the material, you cut line would have a drag on it, so you would need to slow the feed rate down so the bottom of the jet, catches up to the top, or your'd end up leaving a tit that you would have to finish cutting.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 1:28 PM

I was under the impression this sort of water-jet cutting was S.O.P. for flat cuts on very thick steel, as in submarine hulls, etc. Maybe that allowance would have to be made for jet deflection/spreading/kerf angle, etc. and then use additional machine work to flatten the surface to specification.

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#30
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 1:53 PM

They have active heads (Flow International, other also) to allow for kerf angle (as the stream gets wider through the material). The problem I always encountered was with thicker material (greater than 3/8") was the water jet stream lag at the end of the cut

They may now also incorporate the active head or the program to slow down on the leadouts to let the waterjet stream to catch up.

Its hard to say, but I can see the value for the leadout controls

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 3:47 PM

OK, thanks for the lesson. An old friend of mine in a WWII flying game (computer) has a business that does nothing more than cut such large pieces of steel. Pretty sure he only uses water jet at some astronomical pressure I never heard of before, like 50,000 to 100,000 psi.

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#32
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 6:10 PM

60,000 psi was the norm... Flow international about 20 years ago came out with what they called a Super Waterjet, 80,000 psi, where they could increase capacity and/or speed, the problem, is the tank underneath wasn't deep enough to diverge the stream, and the stream cut through part, through the water and through the tank, and through the bottom of the machine itself.

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#33
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 6:23 PM

Nothing succeeds like success! Or excess.

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#34
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 6:26 PM

He should use hard water in his tank.

I visited a local water jet facility and one thing that impressed me was the kerf the jet took our of a steel railroad rail when he cut a semicircle out of it. Much wider at the base of the rail.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/22/2016 6:34 PM

Hey, Lyndoor should start selling hard water for waterjets....

as far as the kerf angle, makes it easier to lift the cut part out......

But seriously a lot of factors are involve with this;

  • depends on the size of mixing tube... Normally 0.030", when they get worn, the opening can get oblong, especially if it crashed a couple of times. (Operator error)
  • WWhat type of orfice.... Diamond or ruby. If they're both new, no difference, a diamond orfice is more expensive, but last longer, where a ruby orfice (focui) is cheaper but doesn't last as long.
  • And the Clearance of the mixing tube and material

Did an analysis on the ruby and diamond orfice, as it turns out they both were the same costs overall as a consumable.

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/23/2016 4:15 PM

ROFLMAO on that one.

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#37
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/23/2016 4:34 PM

Can you imagine when that happened.

"Hey, where's this water coming from?"

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#38

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/24/2016 4:06 PM

How about a plasma cutter?

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#39
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/25/2016 12:20 PM

PC might work on metal that thick, I don't know, but can it make a smooth face across the depth of the cut, and same kerf all the way through?

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#40
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Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/25/2016 12:25 PM

the call it laser plasma or precision plasma. I've seen it cut material 3" thick, it was pretty impressive. The operator has to know what they're doing. Some don't, and it looks like snot.

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#41

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

06/26/2016 4:35 AM

Fundamental process differences

Method of imparting energy Light 10.6 µm (far infrared range) Water
Source of energy Gas laser High-pressure pump
How energy is transmitted Beam guided by mirrors (flying optics); fiber-transmission not
feasible for CO

2 laser

Rigid high-pressure hoses transmit the energy
How cut material is expelled Gas jet, plus additional gas expels material A high-pressure water jet expels waste material
Distance between nozzle and material and maximum permissable tolerance Approximately 0.2" ± 0.004", distance sensor, regulation and Z-axis necessary Approximately 0.12" ± 0.04", distance sensor, regulation and Z-axis necessary
Physical machine set-up Laser source always located inside machine The working area and pump can be located separately
Range of table sizes 8' x 4' to 20' x 6.5' 8' x 4' to 13' x 6.5'
Typical beam output at the workpiece 1500 to 2600 Watts 4 to 17 kilowatts (4000 bar)

Typical process applications and uses

Typical process uses Cutting, drilling, engraving, ablation, structuring, welding Cutting, ablation, structuring
3D material cutting Difficult due to rigid beam guidance and the regulation of distance Partially possible since residual energy behind the workpiece is destroyed
Materials able to be cut by the process All metals (excluding highly reflective metals), all plastics, glass, and wood can be cut All materials can be cut by this process
Material combinations Materials with different melting points can barely be cut Possible, but there is a danger of delamination
Sandwich structures with cavities This is not possible with a CO

2 laser

Limited ability
Cutting materials with liminted or impaired access Rarely possible due to small distance and the large laser cutting head Limited due to the small distance between the nozzle and the material
Properties of the cut material which influence processing Absorption characteristics of material at 10.6 µm Material hardness is a key factor
Material thickness at which cutting or processing is economical ~0.12" to 0.4" depending on material ~0.4" to 2.0"
Common applications for this process Cutting of flat sheet steel of medium thickness for sheet metal processing Cutting of stone, ceramics, and metals of greater thickness

Initial investment and average operating costs

Initial capital investment required $300,000 with a 20 kW pump, and a 6.5' x 4' table $300,000+
Parts that will wear out Protective glass, gas
nozzles, plus both dust and the particle filters
Water jet nozzle, focusing nozzle, and all high-pressure components such as valves, hoses, and seals
Average energy consumption of complete cutting system Assume a 1500 Watt CO

2laser:
Electrical power use:
24-40 kW
Laser gas (CO2, N2, He):
2-16 l/h
Cutting gas (O2, N2):
500-2000 l/h

Assume a 20 kW pump:
Electrical power use:
22-35 kW
Water: 10 l/h
Abrasive: 36 kg/h
Disposal of cutting waste

Precision of process

Minimum size of the cutting slit 0.006", depending on cutting speed 0.02"
Cut surface appearance Cut surface will show a striated structure The cut surface will appear to have been sand-blasted, depending on the cutting speed
Degree of cut edges to completely parallel Good; occasionally will demonstrate conical edges Good; there is a "tailed" effect in curves in the case of thicker materials
Processing tolerance Approximately 0.002" Approximately 0.008"
Degree of burring on the cut Only partial burring occurs No burring occurs
Thermal stress of material Deformation, tempering and structural changes may occur in the material No thermal stress occurs
Forces acting on material in direction of gas or water jet during processing Gas pressure poses
problems with thin
workpieces, distance
cannot be maintained
High: thin, small parts can thus only be processed to limited degree

Safety considerations and operating environment

Personal safety
equipment requirements
Laser protection safety glasses are

not absolutely necessary

Protective safety glasses, ear protection, and protection against contact with high pressure water jet are needed
Production of smoke and dust during processing Does occur; plastics and some metal alloys may produce toxic gases Not applicable for water jet cutting
Noise pollution and danger Very low Unusually high
Machine cleaning requirements due to process mess Low clean up High clean up
Cutting waste produced by the process Cutting waste is mainly in the form of dust requiring vacuum extraction and filtering Large quantities of cutting waste occur due to mixing water with abrasives
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#42

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

07/15/2016 12:07 AM

I saw a movie about a guy who crafted a rifle in prison, all he had was a hacksaw blade, a file and a piece of sandpaper.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

07/15/2016 7:22 AM

That was based off a true story of David Marshall Williams, he designed the floating chamber and the short-stroke piston.

The movie was called 'Carbine Williams'. I believe Jimmy Stewarts played him in the movie. I saw it when I was about 9 years old. Great movie.

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#47
In reply to #42

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

07/15/2016 4:57 PM

It was Jimmy Stewart, as the inventor of the M-1 carbine, was it not?

He had a considerable amount of time on his hands. I am pretty sure he started by working on weapons the guards owned that were malfunctioning. I think they also loaned him an army rifle to use, so he did not have to form a barrel, rifle it, etc.

Nevertheless, an amazingly efficient piece of engineering work, and the weapon made a difference in jungle warfare against the Japanese in the Pacific theater of operations.

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#45

Re: Cutting Steel Bar

07/15/2016 1:51 PM

Deal with this EVER DAY here at work. We cut plate up to 30" thick. Round bar up to 24" thick, all alloys.

Our customers try to pull that stuff on us, want a price to cut pieces from plate or bar without specifying precision or surface finish. MANY over-engineered jobs come in.

We use saws, ox-acetylene, plasma, many CNC mills and lathes. If we have a job that requires many holes be cut in plate, say for a screen, that requires a certain precision of hole and spacing, we guarantee +- 1/16 inch from plasma cutting (depending on thickness of plate). That's about it with plasma or oxy cutting tables. Kerf keeps getting in the way of precision.

Even laser has its limits. A very expensive way to cut, and cost effective ONLY if the precision required warrants it, or (limiting) heat affected Zone of cut requires it.

Basically, if cutting bar, and needs to have a well-defined surface finish and precision of less than 0.005", then the bar must be machined after cutting.

__________________
Invention is the mother of necessity.......there are always opportunities for improvement!!
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