CR4® - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®


Previous in Forum: Any Simple Optical Method To Detect Soil Sample Elements N, P, K, S, Zn etc   Next in Forum: Waterproof Paper Bag
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Member

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5

Loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 1:26 AM

how mach is rate of gasoline loss during summer when temp is 46 c and and the gasoline density is low?

note: when we stored it into tank with floating roof

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40057
Good Answers: 1598
#1

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 1:54 AM

How blue is the sky?

Why not measure it?

That's THE ONLY way you will ever know for sure.

This↓ will only be as good as the information you give it. If 46°C is all youknow, then forget it.

Evaporation Rate Calculator

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
#2
In reply to #1

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 3:19 AM

storage tank 5000 m3

gasoline A-80 density 719 at temp 35, out side temp from 32 up to 48 c

stored time 6 month

Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1
#11
In reply to #2

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 3:38 PM

It depends entirely on the distillation characteristics. As someone commented earlier, why not measure it ? If you have the distillation spec (e.g. E10, E50, E100) then you can make a pretty good estimate.

Register to Reply
5
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1140
#3

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 3:44 AM

It depends on the tank design, if it's insulated, if the floating roof is sealed, how it's sealed, if you are using vapor recovery system, if you are using a gas blanketing system....What I'm saying is you shouldn't be losing any....

"API Publications 2517 (EFRT), 2518 (FRT), and 2519 (IFRT) summarized methods for calculating evaporative losses from the storage and handling of petroleum liquids. These were first published in 1962 and then updated in 1991. Most recently, Publications 2517 and 2519 were consolidated in April 1997 in "Evaporative Loss From Floating-Roof Tanks," Chap. 19.2 of the API Manual of Petroleum Measurement Standards.

The new publication updates the evaporative loss estimation procedures for EFRTs, IFRTs, and CFRTs. The results continue to be used as the basis for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (U.S. EPA) publication on air pollution emission factors."

http://petrowiki.org/Floating_roof_tanks

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13879
Good Answers: 155
#13
In reply to #3

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 4:44 PM

Spot on as usual. Yur da man!

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2532
Good Answers: 76
#4

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 5:46 AM

If you are losing any at all then you have a serious process materials containment problem, serious health and safety issues, and serious insurance liabilities that you cannot afford.

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CA (Central Arkansas, USA)
Posts: 548
Good Answers: 9
#10
In reply to #4

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 3:31 PM

And/or a serious theft problem. In some countries you will be held liable if the thief burns himself up. - JHF

__________________
If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5811
Good Answers: 588
#5

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 7:03 AM

Like most liquids, gasoline expands very little with temperature. The coefficient of expansion of gasoline is 0.00095. In other words, for every 10 degrees C it expands slightly less than one percent.

I don't see it is worth worrying about.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13879
Good Answers: 155
#14
In reply to #5

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 4:48 PM

Expansion is not what he is worrying about. It is vapor lost at the break between vessel wall and floating roof. Gasoline weathers more severely when stored in hot conditions, does it not? It also evaporates much faster at 46 °C than it does at 25 °C.

Gasoline stored for 6 months in those conditions will not perform very well at all, especially a light grade fuel with little aromatic content.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
#16
In reply to #14

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/09/2016 8:58 AM

during month June and July which the weather became hot losses happen.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13879
Good Answers: 155
#17
In reply to #16

Re: loss of Gasoline

08/09/2016 11:32 AM

It depends on the % loss (weathering) as to how bad a condition the final gasoline is. So clearly, it will not matter when the losses take place, only that they do, and how to prevent. Obvious answer, do not allow the gasoline to reach high temperatures for storage.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8494
Good Answers: 351
#6

Re: Loss of Gasoline

08/07/2016 4:04 PM

Given the size of the tank I am assuming this is a home work or general interest question?

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 2:38 PM

no, it is not home work or general interested question.

recently we have big losses in our tanks, we usually use standard of our nearest zone for our calculation. in this standard there loss for fuel stored less then a month, more then a month, up one year, for loading for unloading ... actually I need standard of formula for above items in a zone with high solar radiation.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13879
Good Answers: 155
#15
In reply to #8

Re: Loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 4:51 PM

Haamid: reduce the solar gain of the tank, my friend. Reflectance is your friend, darkness (like black paint) is your enemy. Only other added prophylactic system you could add besides chilling the entire tank, once solar gain is the least possible, you need to consider a bubble dome with a vapor recovery system that is heavily chilled so you can pump the recovered cold condensate back into the tank.

How does this idea seem with you?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17944
Good Answers: 197
#7

Re: Loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 2:23 AM

I would have guessed that there should be systems available to reduce the losses to a tiny amount.

Here in Europe, each petrol driven car has to have a method of capturing the gasses and as the tank empties, returning them to the tank/engine.

I forget the finer details, but its been around 20 years or more, surely something is available for storage tanks by now?

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 2:42 PM

Thank you for our comment.

as I said other comment there is no systems and standard in my country.( it have a long story there is not such system)

we use the nearest zone standard which are almost have some climax with ours.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13879
Good Answers: 155
#12

Re: Loss of Gasoline

08/08/2016 4:43 PM

Obviously, the roof is collecting sunlight manifested as heat. Your lid is probably hotter than ambient, which serves to increase the vapor pressure of the low end cut in the gasoline.

Thus you are losing gasoline and also aging it to the point of being near worthless, in my humble opinion. In some circles, I expect the rate of loss is simply accepted as a fact of life. In other circles, one should strive to be totally aware of the aging/loss of his product, and make steps to keep it where it belongs.

One option: Introduce cooling coils near the underside of this floating tank lid that will keep the liquid at a fixed, lower temperature, then losses and aging will be reduces. Do not cool the gasoline below the dew point (actually wet bulb plus a couple degrees is the safe zone).

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 17 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1); Circuit Breaker (1); Crabtree (1); Haamid (4); jack of all trades (1); James Stewart (5); lyn (1); Rixter (1); SolarEagle (1); The Big Kahuna (1)

Previous in Forum: Any Simple Optical Method To Detect Soil Sample Elements N, P, K, S, Zn etc   Next in Forum: Waterproof Paper Bag

Advertisement