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Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 9:43 AM

Has any valid engineering community done the actual calculations/investigations to determine what it would take to "build the wall" on the Southern border of the USA? What are the actual engineering challenges to be solved? (not looking for any political discussion here!)

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#1

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 10:59 AM

Well, considering that the 190 miles long "fourth-generation Wall", known officially as "Stützwandelement UL 12.11" built in Berlin in 1975 and completed about 1980, (constructed from 45,000 separate sections of reinforced concrete, each 3.6 metres (12 ft) high and 1.2 metres (3.9 ft) wide) costed about US$3,638,000 = 2016 $16,000,000. Bsed on that calculations, this wall might cost $ 3,200,000,000. Construction costs may be significantly cut of if being built by illegal inmigrants.

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#44
In reply to #1

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 3:42 AM

Get each immigrant to bring, at his own cost, a single brick and a small bag of dry premixed cement.

Then get him to mix up the cement (US Police supplies water!) and to place his brick in the rapidly growing wall.....before he enters the USA!!

The cost would be minimal!!

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#50
In reply to #44

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 4:11 AM

Lol,... Yes, and they can have their names on that brick..... And their first jobs will be putting in benches at a rest stops along this wall, and a bike path... Yes, I can almost see it now.

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#2

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:02 AM

One post suggests this will cost $17,073,806,00 for just the material costs. If this only the material costs then as "a rule of thumb" the labor costs would then double this construction cost to about $34 Billion. John Oliver claims the cost will be about $25 Billion. Oliver points out that this doesn't include the complication of land ownership or maintenance costs.

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#3

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:10 AM

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#4

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:16 AM

Aside from it being an incredibly ignorant, stupid idea, put forth ba an incredibly ignorant, stupid psychomaniac, it is practically impossible to build an effective barrier over 1,500-2,000 miles of varied terrain.

One source says, "according to a Government Accountability Office 2009 report, the cost to build 1 mile of fencing at the border averaged between $2.8 million and $3.9 million.

Double the cost and you'll be close. $12 trillion.

The larger problem is where to build it. building it "on the border' is impractical, so you'd have many parts of the wall cutting through working ranches and thousands of acres of private land.

This entire bigoted, racist, isolationist idea is no big surprise considering the scumbag who proposed it.

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#28
In reply to #4

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 10:50 PM

"wall cutting through working ranches and thousands of acres of private land."

You are kidding right? US properties stop at the border and I believe the feds reserve a border buffer zone.

"practically impossible to build an effective barrier over 1,500-2,000 miles of varied terrain."

I read somewhere that some obscure oriental country did the job quite nicely for 6500 miles between 2200 and 2700 years ago. And the main intent of that wall was to control immigration and emigration.

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#33
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:13 PM
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#36
In reply to #33

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:29 PM

Yeah, heard it all from this side of the fence too. It's curious how you post articles mainly from the Left-leaning LameStream Media, like the Washington Compost, etc. Whatta load of crappola.

Here's some more crow for your dinner plate:

http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/hillary-clinton-was-for-building-a-wall-with-mexico-before-she-was-against-it/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezaw-g6TIQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezaw-g6TIQI

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#39
In reply to #36

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:35 PM

Does your computer not have any current Breitbart or Fox News available.

Something from today's world.

Never mind, this is boring.

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:55 PM

Hey, at least they REPORT the REAL NEWS, and not a slanted, manipulated, and outright deceptive OPINIONS like the rest of the media (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, HuffPost, and the print media).

Didn't you know that over 90% of American Broadcast and Print Media are wholly owned and controlled by a mere 6 corporations, nearly all Left-leaning? It's no wonder a majority of Americans hate and don't trust the media (only ~8% approved of the media at last count).

Ahhhh, the Sheeple are so easily led to the wolves....or are you all Lemmings fond of leaping off tall Fjord cliffs?

Seen it personally in hell holes all around the world, and now it's happening here in Emperor Barry Hussein's Amerika.

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#54
In reply to #33

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 7:15 AM

Wonderful. Ya got any non-biased sources?

And, regarding the Great Wall, nothing lasts forever. The Ming's fell through internal failures when traitors allowed the Manchu's through the wall. But that wasn't a failure of the wall.

Believe it or not, there are educated conservatives, even constitutional types like myself.who don't bully their way through life hiding behind pixels.

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#57
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 7:45 AM

A non-biased news source is a myth. All news sources cater to their readership. The question on using any news source should be can the reader obtain useful, truthful information despite a perceived bias. Obviously many readers and responders of this thread cannot.

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#45
In reply to #28

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 3:47 AM

Haven't the Israeli's done something similar quite recently?

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#29
In reply to #4

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 10:59 PM

So much for adhering to current Federal Statutes on Illegal entry into the country. Cross the border without a valid Visa and you're automatically here illegally, hence you are a criminal.

With your stance, you're essentially throwing out for National Sovereignty. No other country on the entire planet treats it's border security like ours does. That's sad.

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#56
In reply to #4

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 7:38 AM

Wow! The OP politely asks responders to refrain from politics, but you just couldn't help it could you?

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#5

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:30 AM

Maybe Hillary should take a historical "clue" from Ronald Reagan's speech and declare: "Mr. Trump...tear down your wall..."? (wink,wink)

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#6

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:59 AM

Well it looks like the answer to my question is NO. I appreciate the cost estimates and understand that it may be close to impossible. I just wondered what technical challenges might be involved. Thanks.

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#7

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 1:03 PM

A wall doesn't do much to stop a tunnel....Only an idiot would think a wall would be effective...

"US–Mexico[edit]

150 tunnels have been found since 1990, most of them incomplete.[4]

On January 25, 2006, a tunnel was found on the US-Mexico border by a joint US Drug Enforcement Administration, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and US Border Patrol task force. The 2,400-foot (730 m) long tunnel runs from a warehouse near the Tijuana airport to a warehouse in San Diego. When discovered, it was devoid of people, but it did contain 2 short tons (1,800 kg) of marijuana. It was 5 feet (1.5 m) high and up to 90 feet (27 m) deep. The floor was made of cement and the walls were exposed clay, with lights lining one side, a ventilation system to keep fresh air circulating, and a water drainage system to remove infiltrating ground water. Authorities said it was unclear how long the tunnel had been in operation."...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/20/us/u-s-mexico-drug-tunnel/

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 1:36 PM

"Only an idiot would think a wall would be effective..."

I know some idiots who aren't that stupid.

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#38
In reply to #7

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:33 PM

That's why we have to build the wall underground, to stop the tunnels. In fact, it has already been built underground, by a certain presidential candidate, and he just has to send the bill to the Mexican government.

Unfortunately, it didn't stop the tunnels.

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#42
In reply to #7

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 12:14 AM

Gosh! Has that been over ten years already? At the time, our company occupied a building just one long block north of that warehouse. It was in Otay Mesa, which is commonly considered part of Greater San Diego.

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#9

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 2:51 PM

Briefly,...

Make it difficult for the illegals. Fine businesses heavy if illegals are there without work permits. (Work permits would entitle illegal foreign workers have always been doing it to help with the harvest and such, so technically they would be here legally and tracked). This would add to the so called vetting process.

stop catering to them with subsidies or benefits. It doesn't matter when they buy things in this country they pay sales tax. They are here illegally and should not expect to get some type a return.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 3:28 PM

"Fine businesses heavy" How do you do this, what new agency enforces this?"

"Work permits" How do you do this, what new agency enforces this?"

"tracked" How? GPS? Guards?

"subsidies or benefits" Not much to argue with there.

"they pay sales tax" If they but retail, they do.

The point is, all these ideas will cost millions/billions to enforce and won't work anyway.

We'll need to tear down the Statue of Liberty pretty soon too, because it still invites "them damn fureiners" in.

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#22
In reply to #11

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 8:10 PM

Don't know what someone mark you off topic.

1.) fine business heavy.

back in the sixty's we had migrant workers picking Cherry's and the like, and when the sheriff would stop in along with immigration and do a spot check. They can do that with business, as well as a reward taken out of the fines. It can be done, look what the IRS did, and what it costed targeting conservative groups.

2.) work permits

It part of the vetting process, and not just lip service from the current administration

3.) tracked,

again, its part of the vetting process, when they enter this country, I see it as a whole new industry, simular to a temp agency where they have to belong to.

as far as sacastically tearing down the Statue of Liberty, you have to remember, that even before and after the Statue of Liberty was built we always had a vetting process at Ellis island where they made sure they were healthy, they had family already here or some place to stay, they were willing to work.

The vetting back then made sure that these new immigrants weren't going to be a burden to this country, but now it's OK.

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#51
In reply to #22

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 6:34 AM

OT,... really, I thought this is a discussion about the wall. must be only one sided discussion.

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#10

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 2:53 PM

If the Chinese could build a 1700 mile wall, the great wall of Trump is a piece of cake.

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#17
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 4:09 PM

By the time the Great Wall of China was completed to keep out the Mongol horde, a Mongol was the emperor of China.

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#24
In reply to #17

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 8:16 PM

Here's a joke I'll share...

the US Navy comes across a small boat.

The captain gets on the loud-hailer and shouts, "Ahoy, small craft. Where are you headed?"

One of the Mexicans puts down his oar, stands up, and replies, "We are invading the United States of America to reclaim the territory taken by the USA during the 1800s."

The entire crew of the destroyer doubled-over in laughter. When the captain was finally able to catch his breath, he gets back on the loud-hailer and asks, "Just the four of you?"

The same Mexican stands up again and shouts, "No, we're the last four. The rest are already there!"

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#12

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 3:33 PM

One issue is that a long stretch of the board is actually the Rio Grande. So you either build the wall on our side of the border, in effect ceding the river to Mexico, or you build the wall on the other side, essentially appropriating the river from Mexico. And since the river tends to wander, you'll want to move that wall every few years.

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#23
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 8:11 PM

The rio grande is the border. It doesn't matter if there is a fence in our side or not.

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#26
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 9:22 PM

Yes it does, but it's not that important.

Back in the sixty's my uncle hired farm workers for $.25 an hour and they lived in a concrete barracks. Were they legal? I don't know. Maybe.

Were they monitored? Doubt it.

All your other suggestions require billions and billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to enforce and administor.

Yes, idiots are ubiquitous.

We are caught in another endless loop of insanity, with both of us on diverging sides.

I'm done here.

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#48
In reply to #26

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 3:55 AM

One thing that is lost here, the initial reason for border protection is safety. A warning was made in the 90's by the Europeans that this country is going to take a hit, because of the freedom to come and go as one please.

Every American didn't understand or believe these Europeans. And we're quite arrogant, with response that can't happen here, that'll cost too much money,... And hey, this is America, things like that just don't happen here.

then 9/11 came and it became a small world, and these same arrogant Americans realize the warning of what was being told to them.

since then, how is the airports being vetted now as to prior to 9/11... Of course, there's problems with the quality of the TSA agents, but that's also from a lax government against the unions. That's another issue.

but when talking about a wall, smaller minds refer to the Great Wall of China-like wall. When in fact, a wall can be comprised of many things, which are out there and rather cheap.

to name a few;

  • they can be a natural deterrent,
  • they can be ground sensors,
  • it can be man-made deterrents, not necessary a cement wall.

Sure it will cost money. Especially if you have government bureaucrats looking to award their lobbist large contracts to build an unneeded concrete wall where barbed wire will do.

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#13

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 3:36 PM

Since the original question has been I believe answered, how about this. Why does it have to be a wall?

Why cannot it be a moat, or while we are at it why not a sonic barrier that increases in intensity the further in you get. Why not just use fleets of satellites, drones and homeland security personnel to locate and turn back people.

Why not have strategically-placed booths along the border where people can come and register and be paid NOT to come into the country (it would probably be cheaper than building, monitoring and maintaining a wall).

Heck, why not just detonate a series of low yield nukes and create a radioactive barrier.

Has anyone thought of just plain invading Mexico and taking it over? No oil or WMDs but I am sure ATF could come up with a public opinion-convincing plan to finally end the tide of drugs flooding into America.

Like the wall, all the plans above have their advantages and disadvantages (including serious ethical and world image ones) but all in the end are stupid ideas if you use plain common sense.

Nothing is idiot proof and if it somehow were possible to build an effective wall without bankrupting the country then people would just switch to boats and go around it or blackmarket-operated prop planes to go over it or around it.

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#14
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 3:46 PM

Why not just send all the Neo-Nazis, KKK, White Supremacists, Vigilantes, "Patriots", and all the rest of the flaming rednecks with assault rifles down there and let them just shoot anybody they don't like the looks of.

That seems to be one current candidates leaning.

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#19
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 4:42 PM

Your Homeland Security dollars at work.

........To much for a joke?

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#21
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 5:16 PM

There's enough of these insecure rednecks and racists using camo and big guns to replace their inadequate penii who would be glad to play "patriot".

Militia organizations in the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...

They are what gives "assault" rifles a bad name.

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#25
In reply to #21

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 8:31 PM

Idiots comes from a wide spectrum

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#31
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Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:04 PM
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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:18 PM

If there's a point here, it's wasted on the current discussion. As are you!

This has been an interesting diversion, to see how radical some members really are.

Is your perimeter safe tonight? Better check one more time.

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#40
In reply to #34

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:43 PM

Radical Lyn? Seriously? You had better look in a mirror at yourself instead.

I suppose that your rather take any member who disagrees with you, line them up against a wall, and then shoot them. That's what TYRANNICAL Leftists and despots do for fun, like the 280 million people slaughtered in the last century alone who had their firearms confiscated. Want me to name names, countries, instances, and dates?

Democrat is the new Communism, or didn't you know that already? JFK wouldn't recognize the Demo Party now if he came back. He was conservative unlike today's whack jobs. Most like he's spinning in his grave at Arlington...

LOL, you have to be kidding me, right? My perimeter is always safe. Do you want to test it? Here's your chance to prove that you're a Big Man. And since we're trading barbs: are you a little man, but have a big ego? After watching you over the years, Methinks so.

All words no action, that's you...

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#53
In reply to #21

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 7:15 AM

MSNBC

We interrupt this program for a breaking news report.

Conservative Biker gangs are terrorizing the neighborhoods.

It is reported to be total chaos and mayhem. The humanity......

This has been a satirical presentation

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#27
In reply to #14

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 10:44 PM

Well now, since you made this a political rant, here's a fact for 'ya:

When Slick Willy Clinton was Prez, both he and Killery both wanted the Southern Border Wall built. Funny how she changes her tune when it comes to pandering for votes to be elected at any cost. Want video proof? I can supply it here.

Assault rifles? You really are a F-ing LibTard aren't you? Do you mean the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle? FYI, that's a faux label, invented by the pRogressives/Libs/DemoRats in the early '90s as a means to stoke the fires, with the ultimate aim at guns confiscation.

I suppose you think that "AR" means Assault Rifle too, eh? NO SUCH FIREARM EXISTS IN THE U.S. MILITARY ARSENAL, PERIOD! Your true ignorance about firearms is peeking out from behind that curtain....

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:02 PM

I should have put that term in parenthesis, like I did in #19.

Not sure which you are, but you are obviously fit somewhere in the Neo-Nazis, KKK, White Supremacists, Vigilantes, "Patriots", and all the rest of the flaming rednecks group.

Cheers.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:12 PM

How very big of you, ranting like the typical LibTard lunatic that you are. When cornered with facts, the Left always lashes out with name calling, etc. in it's attacks. So typical.

You know Jack Chit about me pal.

FYI, I'm a Constitutional Conservative, and not any of the "labels" you tried to pin on me, with the exception of Patriot. What exactly have you done to support this country your entire life? I'd like to know. Obviously, you prefer to tear it down completely and start over?

SMH....

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#49
In reply to #30

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 3:56 AM

A poor defense has always been a rant like then.

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#15

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 3:48 PM

Just stock the Rio Grande with a few million piranhas from Brazil, which could use an economic boost about now.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 4:05 PM

The Rio Grande is almost completely dry.

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 4:14 PM

Okay, a few hundred thousand piranhas, then.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 4:50 PM

Like the lemming the piranaha's aggressive, insatiable predator legend is in fact a myth. You would be wasting your money no matter how many you used.

You would be better filling it with copies of the Piranha 3DD movie.

The most horrifying point of the movie, I bought a copy (which I will gladly donate).

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#35

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:24 PM

I did note that during the recent Rio Olympics, Trump watch the pole vaulting taking note on exactly how high the Mexican team could vault.

Word has it that the success of the Mexican team will have a bearing on the design and height of the wall that will be built if Trump is elected.

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/28/2016 11:29 PM

Adolf Hitler was none too pleased with Jesse Owens speed, either.

I wonder if there's a parallel there?

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#43

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 2:24 AM

The actual challenge of building the wall is not an engineering challenge, look up Great Wall of China, engineers can build anything you can throw money at, it is an economical challenge.

Where is the logic in building a wall that could cost billions of dollars that can easily be defeated by tunnels that only cost a million or less to build?

Now what makes it an economic challenge is the monetary wastefulness of the contracts in which government invests tax payer money.

Look up all the projects that the US funded in Iraq and Aghanistan, Power Plants that do not produce power, Hospitals that are just empty buildings.

Building something is the first step, maintenance is where the real the real cost shows up.

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#46

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 3:49 AM

See what you get when you say you don't want a political discussion! ��

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#47

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 3:55 AM

Gentlemen,

I have it on very good authority that the Canadian Government is watching this blog and some similar ones on the IoT, as they have a very similar problem to fix!!!

The UK comedy TV show "the Last Leg" has already started raising the money for a wall:-

Bricking it for Canada!

Canada News

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#52

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 6:35 AM

Good one phoenix911 - gets my vote. (joke) jt.

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#55

Re: Build the "Wall"?

08/29/2016 7:29 AM
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