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# Build the "Wall"? Part 2

08/29/2016 10:14 AM

I was sorry to see the previous discussion started by Tom_Consulting shut down because it got to be a political discussion. But in answer to the original question, here is one technical challenge to overcome: If the earth curves at 8" per mile x the distance squared, then over the 1954 miles of border between the US and Mexico there will be over 482 miles of curve to compensate for. In other words if you built a wall dead level over the entire length with the starting point tangent to the surface, the other end of the wall would be 482 miles above the surface of the earth, lol. Kind of makes you wonder about the salt flats in Bolivia that 280 long and dead flat and about the 1000 mile long railway in Australia that is dead level, straight and true over the entire length. Or most bewildering to me: the Nile river starts at an elevation of 3721' and drains at sea "level" 4180 miles later, I am confused how it deals with over 2206 miles of curvature. These are facts, what are your thoughts on this?

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#1

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 10:26 AM

Level on the Earth means parallel with the center of the Earth...Flying a straight path in an airplane is dictated by the compass reading, and altitude by the distance above the Earth...

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#144

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 11:35 AM

Mexican to US immigration has stopped....any wall would be built now to keep them in....

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/

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#158

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 1:55 PM

Or to keep us from running away from the Clinton dynasty. In a dynasty, one dies, nasty.

I agree with everyone. Wish I had some Kool-Aid right now. Colorado Kool-Aid that is.

If peanut = goober, and I am what I eat, then I am a goober.

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#2

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:01 AM

Level means "equal gravity" potential, silly man. The high seas are not "dead flat", but the surface is curved so that the ocean surface is at the same gravitational potential.

How is it you were not aware of this. A laser level over a short distance is equivalent to level within limits of its measurement, but over several hundreds of miles, it would shoot a line that would extend above the "level" surface of the earth.

I do not see why this is any obstacle to building a wall, the Chinese built a wall for their emperor over longer distances, and actually held out invaders, but not effective against other invaders from provinces within China.

Even a modest building foundation of one hundred feet actually has some curvature built into it, although it would read totally level by practical means (other than a highly precise laser level device). I wonder how large the errors are for laser surveying on large tracts of land, supposing these tracts were several kilometers across? Maybe, the jumps between survey readings are not so far as to introduce large curvature errors, compared to the changes in topography?

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#3

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:08 AM

The high seas are not "dead flat", but the surface is curved so that the ocean surface is at the same gravitational potential.

in actuality, the surface of the high seas somewhat follows the contours of the sea bed.

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#4

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:21 AM

I am aware of that, but for first approximation, the "high" seas are not all that high.

Please let's not quibble over mere inches.

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#5

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:24 AM

I agree whether flat or curved building a wall would not be an issue, but what I am wondering is when I look across the lake at my cottage I can easily see the shoreline on the other side which is 9 miles away. (8" x (9x9))/12=54' feet of curvature. Seriously, how does that work??? I can see 9 miles straight at least sitting a chair about 36" above the waters surface???

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#7

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:30 AM

Recheck arithmetic.

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#12

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:40 PM

I did recheck it, it is not a hard equation...: (8*81)/12=54 648/12=54 Did I do something wrong? https://www.google.com/search?q=8+inches+per+mile+squared&biw=1164&bih=845&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjp_uDjh-fOAhWONx4KHXuIAssQsAQIOQ

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#15

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:45 PM

In your other post you said 54', not 54".

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#17

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:51 PM

I did mean to say 54' sorry for the confusion.

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#10

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:06 PM

I think you may be experiencing what's called Looming refraction....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looming_and_similar_refraction_phenomena

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#14

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:43 PM

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#44

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 5:06 PM

There could be one or more of several different things occurring that either allow you to see the shoreline or make you think you are seeing the shore line 9 miles away from 36"above water level.

.

Detecting what you cannot see might be difficult. The water you can see against the backdrop of the land you can see may provide a very convincing suggestion of actual shore.

.

You might be higher than water level that you estimate.

.

If there are significant rocky formations (or density anomalies) in the proximity of where you are looking, the water surface may have curvature less than is typical. Consider that if all the ice were melted off Greenland immediately, the sea level around Greenland would actually fall because the loss of the gravity of the ice.

.

Or maybe you are developing the ability to see around corners....

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#225

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/24/2016 11:04 AM

Here there's the assumption that in all earth areas a rate of curvature remains constant which isn't likely.

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#210

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/02/2016 2:56 PM

This is a really simple problem for a geodisist, someone who specializes in exactly this kind of surveying. See http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/geodesist.html for a simple but illuminating review of the subject.

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#224

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/24/2016 10:57 AM

The invaders were of greater stature in some areas I suppose. ��

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#6

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:28 AM

I'm all for preserving American jobs, but if we outsource it to the Chinese, I understand they have some expertise in building walls.

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#71

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 8:53 AM

Glad this reopened so I could get my 2¢ worth in:

Me,,, I will wait until November, see what the results are and then wait for the tender to come out and the bids submitted. Then,,,barring "extras" or changes to contract, we will know the exact cost of building the wall.

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#76

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 9:19 AM

good solid response.... because if man were meant to fly, they'd have wings.

By the way,... there is no such thing as exact costs in government contracts, so lets call them estimated costs..

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#78

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 9:25 AM

Usually "underestimated" costs.

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#80

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 10:12 AM

better still.....

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#8

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:36 AM

Speaking of the curvature of the earth...

"In the space of one hundred and seventy-six years the Lower Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. This is an average of a trifle over one mile and a third per year. Therefore, any calm person, who is not blind or idiotic, can see that in the Old Oolitic Silurian Period, just a million years ago next November, the Lower Mississippi River was upward of one million three hundred thousand miles long, and stuck out over the Gulf of Mexico like a fishing-rod."

-Mark Twain

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/twain.htm

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#9

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 11:37 AM

If you're standing on the slat flat, you can see 15 miles, line-of-sight.

It just looks flat.

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#11

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:19 PM
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#13

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:43 PM

Yea, that is what I am saying, in your screenshot it says that at 6' high the horizon is at 3 miles. And to that I say BS, I can see detailed things a whole lot further away than 3 miles.....

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#19

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:13 PM

Here is a graphically representation of a man looking at the horizon (Tangent), and to the right of that, it is dropping off below the horizon..

Tell me, how can you see beyond the horizon then?

Now, if your standing on a Church Bell tower or on a cliff such as the white cliffs of Dover in England, yes you can see farther. But you are elevated...

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#22

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:40 PM

Yea, I know what you mean but if you stand on Newport Beach you can see Catalina Island 26 miles away with the naked eye and there should be 450' of total curvature and the Island should be hidden below the horizon by 353'....that is a lot of refraction to have such a clear view of the Island.

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#26

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:56 PM

Refraction can be surprisingly large; if you have ever seen a Fata Morgana, for instance.

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#27

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 2:08 PM

I don't know if I have seen one or not. And refraction of 353' in clear detail is very surprising indeed, imagine how much refraction I could experience if I looked in a straight line with a powerful pair of binoculars or even a telescope or periscope, I bet we would be getting into miles worth of refraction.

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#62

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 5:11 AM

Excuse me for butting into your fun.

When you say you can see Catalina island from Newport Beach,

Does that mean that ( you ) can stand on the beach at Newport Beach and see the beach at Avalon ?

If that is true, then the earth must be flat.

I will now sit on the sidelines and watch the fun.

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#64

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 5:46 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJjLkrsB8gs That is 26 miles away?

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#23

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:41 PM

So is Massey standing with his feet at water's edge, or is he several feet up on land's end? I suspect the ladder, or the latter.

On a clear day, I can my arse getting back to work after lunch. That's a pretty good trick, don't ya' think?

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#24

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:43 PM

for the size of it.... yes, that is more than a task, its a monumental task at that...

but I only repeat what I hear.

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#36

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:14 PM

Always with the smartalek replies. May the Bird of Paradise bless you with a gift from above.

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#25

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:49 PM

Feet on the sand on water's edge.

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#125

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 2:23 AM

Water's edge is typically higher than the surface at depth especially somewhere like California.

.

Waves get pushed higher as things get shallow approaching shore, and the high water mark may be well above the highest wave crest at depth.

.

Land is more dense than water. In California, the land drops off very quickly as you go out.

.

A plum bob does not alighn to point to center of mass of Earth. Similarly the water in the oceans does not align itself to have its surfaces closest to the Earth's center of mass.

Gravity is well modeled as an inverse square law with respect to distance from mass. This means the land mass of Catalina has a much greater effect on the water near its shore than a similar mass further away. This results in water being drawn higher up shore especially where land rises quickly out of the water.

.

All that works against the enherent curvature of the Earth making the ocean between that beach and Catalina much more flat (or perhaps even slightly concave) than would be the case for a similar stretch on the open ocean.

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#134

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 9:19 AM

You really should read what you are typing before you post it. If you believed half of that crap, you could be declared legally insane in several states.

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#193

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/01/2016 11:58 PM

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#198

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/02/2016 5:52 AM

Really, if you feel s strongly about this, you should be able to specify what exactly you find so disagreeable and why.

Local variations in gravity lead to differences in sea level exceeding 100m.

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#21

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:25 PM

You have to add the distance to the horizon from the object (using the same formula) to the distance to the horizon from your eyeball. This assumes the earth is a smooth sphere (maybe a very quiet day on a large body of water) and your line of sight just grazes the surface. It's why old sailing ships approaching from the sea appeared mast first.

In the formula, the circular arc of the earth is approximated by a parabola, a good approximation for relatively small distances.

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#31

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 3:02 PM

"It's why old sailing ships approaching from the sea appeared mast first." I agree but perspective can explain the same just as well, for example, if you watch a ship until the mast disappears, then put binoculars to your eyes and look where the ship "just disappeared" over the horizon, oops, the ship reappears. It should still be gone but it is not.

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#155

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 12:55 PM

This is because, at that distance, it's image becomes too small to render with the naked eye. You "lose sight" of it from the distance before you lose it due to the curvature. With inhumanly large eyes, one could see clearly all the way to the horizon, and then you would see that the curvature blocks view of the hull before it blocks view of the mast.

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#117

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 10:15 PM

There's a simple way to visualize and calculate the falling off of the earth's surface using similar triangles as shown below. R is the radius of the earth, 4000 miles, D is the distance along the earth, and d is the distance the earth's surface falls off for distance D. (D and d are greatly exaggerated in the picture for illustration.)

d/D = D/R (similar triangles)

So if D=1 mile = 5280 ft, then d=5280/4000 = 1.32 ft.

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#119

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 10:46 PM

I sketch on a earlier post of where the horizon is for a man approx. 6 ft tall.

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#130

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 9:11 AM

That is a good approximation, but you could also represent the distance in terms of angle β of arc along the curved surface. arc length (d) = R x β, right? We know the circumference is just 2πR, 24,901 miles average, thus we can say this:

β = (d) x 2π/24901

d x Sin(β)= h (the horizonal drop)

for d = 10 miles, I get the following:

β = 2.52327 x 10-3 radians

h = 0.0252326 miles (133 ft).

IF there is no looming refraction at the surface to form a virtual image of the object at the distance needed, even for a 7 ft tall giant, nothing is possible to be seen less than 126 ft tall, and that only the tip could be seen. There must be refraction to see an image of water's edge that far away.

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#143

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 11:26 AM

I kind of like the ratio method because you can often figure it mentally. Square number of miles, divide by 4000, and convert to feet.

For 10 miles, I get 10/4000 = d/10, d=100/4000 = 1/40 mile = 528/4 = 132 ft

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#173

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 6:14 PM

Hang on - if d/D = D/R, then d=D2/R.

And you're mixing units (feet and miles).

Sorry, but you appear to have posted a load of bollocks. Please accept my apologies (and put me right) if I'm wrong. Or was it a joke?

[Edit - oh, wait - I see what you did - sorry. But marks off cos you didn't show your working]

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#174

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 6:42 PM

Getting an isosceles triangle to be similar to a right triangle is a cute trick, too (other than 45-45-90).

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#16

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:48 PM

I know right? But at 15 miles there should be 150' of curvature....check out this calculator, it says at 15 miles the other end should be hidden by 96' the difference is because the calculator takes into account for the first 3 miles before the 'horizon'. https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/?d0=15&h0=6&unit=imperial

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#18

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 12:52 PM

Why in the world is this marked "off topic"?? It is an online calculator that is legit. That is the result.

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#20

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 1:18 PM

Don't know where that came from?

Maybe you can see 15 miles straight up.

I can't spell either.

Anyway I OT'd it.

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#28

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 2:33 PM

Remember all those x,y equations in physics, dynamics and others.... "if you shoot a bullet going some velocity at a certain beginning height, how long does it take before it hits the ground?" Or others like those. I always thought it was funny to assume constant velocity in the X direction, I always thought they did that so the prof's could find the answer too. Imagine what would happen if we considered the curvature of the earth in those problems. I guess along with assuming a constant X velocity we also assume a horizontal surface in the X direction. How did you Civil Engineers accommodate for curvature in laying out canals and hundreds of miles of rail or highway?

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#37

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:16 PM

I do believe some artillery shots require earth curvature correction in the trajectory algorithm. Guided munitions tend to overcome such corrections so, it is becoming more of a moot point.

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#40

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:34 PM

"if you shoot a bullet going some velocity at a certain beginning height, how long does it take before it hits the ground?"

With no surface that would create lift........ about 32.1740 ft/s2....

And to add to James,.... one has to take into account the Coriolis deflection

Now back to the wall.

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#41

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:39 PM

Nice catch!

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#48

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 10:31 PM

Good point, applying the coriolas effect which applies to objects not in contact with Terra Firma as big airplanes fly at speeds between 500-750 mph, how are they able to deal with a runway spinning at 1000 mph orbiting the sun at 65,000 mph while the sun is orbiting something at 450,000 mph and Polaris and all the constallations have always been in the same place at the same time of the year forever?

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#63

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 5:38 AM

Because the atmosphere within a few miles of the Earth's surface is moving at more-or-less the same speed as the surface. Consider a helicopter hovering over a fixed position on the surface - it doesn't have to compensate for the rotation of the Earth below it. Also consider rotating frames of reference.

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#75

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 9:17 AM

It is all relative.

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#123

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 12:30 AM

"It is all relative."

When I said that to my kids when they were growinh up, their reply was "Relative is Grandma and Grandpa."

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#133

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 9:16 AM

Without relative, we would not be here, hear?

Build it, and they will come (tear it down??)

Make this barrier so repulsive, not even a desperate person would continue on. Low frequencies can definitely produce convulsive heaves of nausea. No air sickness pill can overcome it!

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#153

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 12:50 PM

"Make this barrier so repulsive, not even a desperate person would continue on."

You mean paint the Mexican side with all the Liberal caricatures of Trump's face? You have to agree that they have not taken the time to make a single flattering sketch of him. And Trump is pro-wall, so this isn't a 'do this to spite Trump' action; he'd probably LOVE to have his face on the wall, he'd even likely license his name to top the wall in gold letters.

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#175

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 6:57 PM

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#181

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/01/2016 8:29 AM

Once you are already living somewhere, you no longer get to pick your neighbors either, unless you pick up and move. Where are we going to move to? I vote for Norway.

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#165

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 4:20 PM

I can't understand why the curvature of the earth is of any importance. It's difficult to manufacture anything as straight as the very, very slight curvature of the earth's surface.

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#178

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/01/2016 5:09 AM

Ugh! I am sorry I mentioned curvature at all. BUT, it is not very, very slight. It is freaking HUGE! 8" in the first mile, 32" in the second mile and 72" in the third mile, ...800" in the first 10 miles, that is 67' in the first ten miles. To me that is NOT very, very slight. Go ahead and mark this off topic also, I should do it myself to save you the trouble, LOL

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#29

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 2:40 PM

Sure, go ahead, build the wall. Then call one side North Berlin and the other side South Berlin.

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#30

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 2:49 PM

Are you trying to get this thread shut down also, please don't cross into politics, this is an interesting topic I am trying figure out. Real life experience and all the equations of several years of college classes coincide with each other except we never considered earth curvature at all in college, did you?

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#33

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 3:37 PM

What kind of question is that? There were various circumstances in college where I addressed earth curvature, which is not particularly relevant to any border wall.

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#34

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 3:56 PM

It's a question. I suppose an example problem could be constructed to resolve a hypothetical challenge involving the curve but in real life it is not part of any standard equation. Why is that?

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#32

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 3:29 PM

There is so much written here in the comments, it gets hard to follow.

The bottom line is: You are confusing STRAIGHT and LEVEL.

a STRAIGHT line is unbending.

a LEVEL line is always at right angles to PLUMB.

a PLUMB line points directly at the center of the Earth's mass (aka 'down').

Over a distance, a LEVEL line will have a noticeable curve as it maintains a right angle to PLUMB, and therefore a constant distance from Earth's center of mass, while a STRAIGHT line will 'pull away' from the Earth's curving surface over a distance.

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#35

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:02 PM

Ok, so are you stating that "Laser Levels" have a built in curve designed into them or are they misnamed and should be called "Laser Straights"?

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#39

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:19 PM

What laser level shoots more than a couple hundred feet?

If survey equipment, they shoot from the midpoint to a reference back step point, then forward to the point being surveyed. Didn't you read Solar Eagle's post? That helps cancel out the refraction and curvature errors.

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#66

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 8:22 AM

Over short distances, the difference between STRAIGHT and LEVEL are minimal. Since laser levels tend to have a maximum radius of 100-200 feet, I doubt the 'error' between the STRAIGHT laser and the LEVEL line could be measured.

Although, you could test that, using the same sort of 'long distance level' that the Egyptians were suspected of using when building the Pyramids: get a long tube (we can use clear plastic tubing to make it easier than the Egyptians had it) and mount one end vertically near the laser level's aperture. secure the other end vertically on the wall where the laser will strike. Make sure the tube extends above both points, and that the portion lying on the ground between the ends is free of kinks. Now turn on the laser level, and fill the tube with tinted water (enough food coloring to make the water easily visible, but not so much that the water is no longer transparent) until the mencis reaches the laser line at the level. Then go to the wall and measure the difference between the laser mark and the mencis of the water there.

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#77

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 9:25 AM

Mencis? Really? Does that come with Kotex?

Meniscus is the word of the day.

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#83

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 12:21 PM

Thank you for the vocabulary lesson.

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#38

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:17 PM

I appreciate your response and it provides some things to think about, I have used string levels before. Are you stating that if we had a "straight, rigid string or wire" say a mile long and if we hung about 500 string levels on it without deflection that only 1 of them would be level?

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#67

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 8:27 AM

Yes. In fact, a mile of 'straight, rigid string' might even show a visible 'sag' in the middle; a 'sag' that would be duplicated by a laser sight aiming from the string's start point to its end point.

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#79

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 9:26 AM

In theory, there is no such thing as a straight, level string. You cannot pull enough tension on it to overcome the gravitational sag in the middle.

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#42

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:40 PM
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#43

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 4:54 PM

either that ship is ON the high seas, or the camera is high on something!

Perfect example of looming, I suppose the air density is really high on that particular occasion.

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#115

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 9:25 PM

Thank you, thank you. The link has provided me with an answer to a problem that i have pondered for some time now. A popular UFO story was about a group of people on an island, including a pastor/priest who all saw a UFO just offshore. It was hovering there for some time and they ALL could clearly see what looked like humans standing on the edge. It was well lit and had twinkling lights. The link says that 'looming' occurs in cold areas but the pic shows people dressed lightly so the pic is either a photoshop illustrating the phenomenon or it shows that it can occur in warmer climes. This is important as the island in the saga, if i remember correctly, ( not guaranteed ) was tropical. They all swore there was no ship nearby and in fact one could not get that close. Your link has informed me of a phenomenon that i didn't know existed and i think it is a plausible explanation for this observation. Jim

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#127

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 8:48 AM

Think this way: warm, dry air layer above, colder humid air at the surface of the water (probably due to a cold ocean current).

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#137

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/31/2016 9:22 AM

'Looming' does not require a 'cold climate' it requires a specific 'layering' of the atmosphere: cooler air on the bottom, warmer air above. The 'cooler' air may be 70 degrees F with the warmer air in the 90's, or the warmer air may be 30 degrees F while the cooler air is -20 degrees F. As long as it is 'warm high, cool low,' the conditions are right for a looming mirage.

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#45

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 5:32 PM

Let's just follow the lead of the Chinese and build the useless damn wall on the ground.

It's a dumb idea!

It's a dumb, stupid idea.

It's a perfectly dumb, stupid idea.

It's the greatest perfectly dumb, stupid idea.

Ever.

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#46

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/29/2016 5:45 PM

Many, many people say it's a dumb idea!

It's a yuge dumb idea!

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#61

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 2:52 AM

If it works, it's not dumb.

If not, you called it.

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#70

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 8:43 AM

Oh, come on. Think what it will do for tourism in about two thousand years. Great investment in the future.

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#194

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

09/02/2016 1:52 AM

Why wait two thousand years?

Think of all the space available for graffiti artists!

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#72

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 8:58 AM

Wall can only work in certain places on the border where there is nothing but dirt. The Rio Grande River border (in Texas) obviously is not a constant of the landscape. It moves channels, depending on heavy rain events, silt deposition, etc. The only way to make a physical wall work on that border is to build it in Mexico a couple miles in, or in Texas a couple miles in. Not workable. Having a border enforcement scheme as put forth by former Governor Rick Perry will work. RPA (remotely piloted aircraft) fleet to monitor the border, anchored balloons with cameras. Border patrol crews available for dispatch to intercept intrusions, and other passive/active systems will work.

E-verify of new hires is also a workable idea. Open borders in this modern dangerous world is not a good idea.

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#84

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 12:31 PM

Or we can just annex Mexico and everything down to the Panama Canal. Then border patrol will be easy, Mexicans will no longer sneak across the border into America (It's logically impossible for someone to 'sneak into' America when they're already within the nation's borders), and there are thousands of new citizens to tax.

Then we continue on to South America, then North to Canada, then the Old World, and there you have it, all the trade and immigration problems are solved, since everything is now the USA. If I were any more right, I'd have orange skin, and YUGE hands!

(For those of you who do not understand Poe's Law: This post is SATIRE! It's all a hyperbolic JOKE!)

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#86

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 1:07 PM

How do we handle the drug lords in mexico.... we already have too many lobbyists in Washington?

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#88

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 1:27 PM

Simple.

Legalize (and tax) production & sale, keep unlicensed transportation, distribution, possession & use illegal (felony, no defense allowed, mandatory prison time). That way the kingpins and their major drug mules get to keep up business as usual, and the cops get to bust the end users and keep the population (and profits) of the private prisons up.

While we're at it, we can criminalize possession or use all over the counter medications, and all 'herbal remedies,' but not sale. Got a headache yet from all this? Better not let the cops catch you sneaking an aspirin, or it's off to the Big House for you.

"Ah *AM* da Law! and I'm YUGE!" - Judge Trumpp(1)

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1. Judge Dredd/Donald Trump mashup, in case I was too subtle.
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#93

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 1:43 PM

that one possibility... but I'm with the group that 'Just say No."

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#94

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 1:45 PM

Are you off your meds today? Calm down, take a nap, something. You will feel better later.

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#100

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 2:16 PM

I'll feel better after this decade of InDecision 2016 campaigning is finally over with.

I want GOOD things to make fun of, I am both sick of politics AND tired of everyone talking about the latest 'scandal' from either side. Yes, I'm officially sick AND tired of this election cycle.

I want to get back to feeling fine, or dandy, or possibly both fine AND dandy (as long as somebody ASKS me about it at the right time, I'd hate to lose the opportunity like George Carlin did).

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#104

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 3:29 PM

Nobody ever asks me, and I suspect no one really cares whether I feel fine or if I feel dandy. I might as well volunteer it, I feel both fine and dandy today, thank you very much. If you had asked, I would have probably said about what you said about this

(S)election of the Lesser of Two Weevils. If I but had a good ship and stout to sail away in, I would head to calmer shores, and sail off into the blue Pacific.

Heck, I don't even have a good horse to go ride in the wilds of West Texas (if I could find any), but that would be almost as good.

I hope that gives you an idea.

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#107

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 3:45 PM

Sorry, that's the LEASSER of two weevils. We pay an annual fee for them and at the end of four years we have the option to pick a different one. We don't actually get to own anything.

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#109

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 3:51 PM

So true. Actually, don't they "own" us, instead? We keep getting whipped over their mistakes.

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#112

### Re: Build the "Wall"? part 2

08/30/2016 4:08 PM

Sorry, you misspelled that.

It's not 'own,' its 'pwn,' meaning roughly, "to humiliate" or "to make someone look like a complete idiot who never should have started playing the game."

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