CR4 - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion ®
Login | Register for Engineering Community (CR4)


Previous in Forum: Build the "Wall"? Part 2   Next in Forum: Archicad Libraries.
Close
Close
Close
30 comments
Participant

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1

Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 12:14 PM

Hi,

This is a question asked by my lecturer and we are required to write an essay about it. Hopefully you guys will be able to point me to the correct direction or a little guide about it. The question goes "Discuss your responsibilities and obligations in the event that due to a building operations that are under charge, adjacent building have been damaged beyond repair."
Thank you guys. I appreciate so much for your time.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
3
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4836
Good Answers: 458
#1

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 12:49 PM

If I help, then I'd be a bad example.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 39041
Good Answers: 1532
#2

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 12:52 PM

This is your assignment, not ours.

And it is FAR too broad a question to be answered here.

My goodness, if you can't do research into "engineering ethics" and draw your own conclusions, then quit the class.

This will require lawyers to sort out.

Now, go do your homework/research.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2482
Good Answers: 76
#3

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 12:58 PM

I'm not going to answer your question, because were I to do so, then that might make you lazy, and we don't want that, do we?

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 19471
Good Answers: 730
#4

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 1:06 PM

These choices might provoke an interesting discussion:

a) Jump off nearest bridge
b) File insurance claim
c) Emigrate instantly to foreign country

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 8600
Good Answers: 111
#5

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 1:26 PM

We typically do not do homework questions. If adjacent building is damaged, who damaged it, how, and in what manner? What could have been done to prevent it?

Takes a lot of questions to be answered, you will not find the answers here. Typically involves court proceedings any way.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 3929
Good Answers: 217
#6

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 2:06 PM

"Discuss your responsibilities and obligations in the event that due to a building operations that are under charge, adjacent building have been damaged beyond repair."

Is your lecturer illiterate; or, have you copied the question badly; or, does the building have such a high static charge that it is zapping everything around it?

Try a google search for something like "engineering responsibility for third party property damage", then, refine your search until you start to get some good information.

__________________
We are alone in the universe, or, we are not. Either way it's incredible... Adapted from R. Buckminster Fuller/Arthur C. Clarke
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 189
Good Answers: 14
#7

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 2:20 PM

"due to a building operations that are under charge, adjacent building have been damaged beyond repair."

Did you mean - "due to a building operation that is under your charge, adjacent buildings have been damaged beyond repair."

Are you a lawyer looking for someone to sue?

Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancleave, Ms about 30 miles inland from Biloxi and the coast
Posts: 2959
Good Answers: 98
#30
In reply to #7

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/08/2016 1:11 PM

Give the guy a break. His name makes me think English is not his first language.

__________________
Mr.Ron from South Ms.
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: On the road, USA
Posts: 2001
Good Answers: 61
#8

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 2:35 PM

Discuss your responsibilities and obligations in the event that due to a building operations that are under charge, adjacent building have been damaged beyond repair."

This is an incomplete question: (1) What is the scenario? (2) What are the charges? Fire or did the building collapse and fall over? (3) How are you involved? Was it your design or specifications call-out that caused the adjacent buildings to be destroyed beyond repair? (4) Or, are you the engineer doing the failure assessments?

Goggle can be your friend and do a lot of the work for you, if you try researching the subject, which is also part of your job as an engineer.

Codes of engineering ethics

Here's about 630,000 results on "ethics of engineering essays"

Get Busy, you have a lot of work ahead of you

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 16925
Good Answers: 964
#9

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 4:26 PM

Your obligation is to learn from your mistakes...to make whole those you have damaged according to the law or through arbitration...

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
2
Guru
United States - Member - Hobbies - Fishing - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: On the road, USA
Posts: 2001
Good Answers: 61
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 6:00 PM

Sorry SE, it's one of the few times I'll have to disagree with you, "Your obligation is to learn from your mistakes...to make whole those you have damaged according to the law or through arbitration..."

That's after the fact and in CYA mode

Their obligation is not to make those kind of mistakes that causes either or both, lose of life or monetary. And the list can on and on and .......

And, if they are not sure how a peculiar design will hold up through stress and time, then it's that engineer's responsibility to run failure analysis either through computer modeling or preferably hard research and development (R&D).

It does no good to close the corral gate after the horses are out and running amuck.

__________________
Confucius once said, “ Ability will never catch up with the demand for it".
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 16925
Good Answers: 964
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 7:00 PM

The question is what to do after the fact...Granted it is better not to make any mistakes, but we don't always have that much control over a situation, and I might add, nobody's perfect.....we generally work with employees and suppliers and others, with varying degrees of ability and experience, in a changing environment...and although the design may be superb, the execution can vary and circumstances can present unforeseen complications leading to communication breakdown or misunderstanding......that's why we have insurance...

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 39041
Good Answers: 1532
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 7:28 PM

That's why we have lawyers. To make money for themselves profiting from other people's misfortune.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 52
Good Answers: 2
#20
In reply to #11

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 8:27 AM

I was exquisitely aware of my responsibilities when I took an engineering contract at a firm that made defibrillators.
Confronted by a manager for adding expenses they had never before had to accept, my (already prepared) reply was that I didn't want to kill the people whose lives they were trying to save. It worked.
He "knew or should have known" that those expenses were due to new statutory requirements imposed on everyone in the industry. That's why they'd hired me.
I'm not going to do anyone's homework on this either, but the questioner could do worse than think of his responsibility to preserve life, health and property in the course of his work.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancleave, Ms about 30 miles inland from Biloxi and the coast
Posts: 2959
Good Answers: 98
#10

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 5:22 PM

The same ethic/Code of Conduct applies to all; not just engineers. Only politicians seem to be immune.

__________________
Mr.Ron from South Ms.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 7745
Good Answers: 721
#14
In reply to #10

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 7:53 PM

I disagree. Most people in management seem to always have a scapegoat or two below them setup to take the blame.

I've been offered up as the goat a few times now by someone above me trying to hide their screwups.

Unfortunately for them they found out the hard way this goat had sharp teeth and claws.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 16925
Good Answers: 964
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/05/2016 9:26 PM

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 8600
Good Answers: 111
#21
In reply to #10

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 9:28 AM

The same code of ethics does not apply to grandmother, retired, sitting knitting away watching Wheel of Fortune as an engineer. There is very little grandmother could or would do to harm many at once. An engineer that is complacent, unconcerned, or simply inept could undertake actions affecting hundreds at once, if not more.

Yes, Mildred, there is a higher standard by which to be held. Politicians apparently have no code of general conduct and cannot be taken easily before a courts martial board, as would a soldier. It is extremely difficult to get a special prosecutor to investigate high crimes and misdemeanors of a politician who has dirt on those with the power, or whose party is in control of the situation, or if there is an upcoming election as is the case right now.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 4257
Good Answers: 155
#16

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 12:11 AM

First, welcome to CR4, in spite of what some others have said/implied.

Second, it is pretty clear that either your lecturer, or you, or both, use English as a second language, and as a result have imperfections in the translation.

I've been speaking a second language (Spanish), for over 50 years, yet still get almost constant corrections from my teacher (wife), so don't let others discourage you!

For your question, simply apply the Golden Rule: "Treat others as you would like them to treat you." I think I originally was taught in somewhat more religious-sounding words: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

As others have indicated, in this case it sounds as though whoever designed/built/maintained your building wasn't ethical, so it's too late!

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2482
Good Answers: 76
#17

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 4:15 AM

Ok. Your building works have damaged my building beyond reasonable repair, and my family and I are having to take refuge in a local hotel for the time being, and having our meals at René's humble café. What possessions were undamaged are now insecure and becoming damaged by the elements and at risk of being pilfered. So, what are you going to do about it? If your answer is "nothing", whom do I sue?

Write down your response in a way that your tutor gives top marks in response. I don't have to read it, BTW, because my building is imaginary for the purpose of getting some work out of you.

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3936
Good Answers: 118
#18

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 6:07 AM

Your insurance company will try to suppress your ability to publicly or privately admit any liability - in effect to cheat the victims of your errors. They might have an insurance cancellation clause that effectively gags you.

If you blow the whistle and admit liability, your professional association may audit your performance in the affair and might withdraw your certification for ever or for a period of time, and may require you to upgrade your skills in some manner before you can be responsible to the public in your trained specialty.

Now, as a professional who has erred, you should admit this to your employer, and in any court case or arbitration hearing you should tell the truth and admit liability and avoid any liability limiting scripts the insurers try and make you utter. Do not "take the fifth", as they say.

All this said, you will have to assess your future career path in the case going forward.

Since this is an ethics course, you are expected to act correctly and admit any errors. This question is to make you realize the risks you face if a crooked employer decides to not do proper work, work you will be asked to sign off on (improperly), and to make you realize you should not act against the public interest to profit your employer.

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16195
Good Answers: 617
#19

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 6:44 AM

Be diligent and scrupulously honest.
If your boss or some marketing wonk wants to falsify your results... it's up to them, but don't let anyone bully you into lying or doing anything dangerous.
Don't sign off anything you are not happy with.
We all make enough enough mistakes without doing them intentionally.

Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster #1
#22

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 11:02 AM

Haven't you read the writings of Dilbert?

  • The upper level managers that were responsible for the problem will get upper level management positions on a different job.
  • The mid level managers will be promoted to upper level management.
  • The lower level managers will be scapegoated.
  • The upper level engineers that were responsible for the problem will be promoted to fill in the now vacant management positions.
  • The lover level engineers will be scapegoated.
  • A bunch of new guys/gals will be hired. They will have no idea of what they are doing but they will post questions to CR4 to get help.
  • College kids will post their homework on CR4 hoping to get us to do it for them. This is their first step in the employment process described above.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 8600
Good Answers: 111
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 11:15 AM

Dilbert is of course, the ultimate corporate guru.

I think he even Trump's him whose name might not be mentioned.

Primary reason why third party candidates are always a bad idea in America:

One way or the other they result in further fractionation of the vote for the party about to lose, that might have won, but not for the 3rd Party idiot not willing to work within the original party that got him/her into office in the first place.

Salute to Eagle Forum, at the passing of Phyllis Schlafly at 92 years young.

Phyllis Schlafly passes away at 92

One of the most independent thinking women of the 20th and 21St Centuries.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 39041
Good Answers: 1532
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 4:09 PM

Arizona has Kathi Harrod and the Center for AZ Policy which, I'm sure, is cut from the same bolt of cloth.

But, lest we digress..............................................

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 52
Good Answers: 2
#25
In reply to #22

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/06/2016 5:10 PM

To save between 60 and $100 per day, emergency managers for the city of Flint, Michigan, and lower level employees in that city's water department, decided to forgo the use of an and corrosive water additive when the Flint River was selected as a new and cheaper water source. It was expected to cost SOME $100 a day to pay for the anti-corrosive, and considered an unnecessary expense.
It will cost the city of Flint, the state of Michigan and quite possibly the taxpayers of the United States a total of some tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to replace all of the contaminated water pipes in the city of Flint. That's not a smart business decision. As far as those responsible for the decision and its consequences, or those who knew or should've known of the decision and its consequences and did not act, their failure to act ethically and properly in pursuing their appointed duties is going to cost them personally. Others will pay a much harder and longer price than they do. From the class action suit:
"56. According to recent media reports, defendants had been informed by the 2011 report that use of the Flint River water, without a proper anti-corrosive treatment, would create a condition dangerous to health and property.
57. Beginning in April 2014, Defendants were fully aware that the required and necessary anti-corrosive was not being used in during the distribution of Flint River water to Flint residents, families and home owners.
58. It has been estimated that the daily cost of the anti-corrosive agentwould have been $60".
– http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/01/10/may.et.al.v.snyder.et.al.-.pacer.1.complaint.for.injunctive.and.declaratory.relief.pdf

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1585
Good Answers: 26
#26

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/07/2016 2:15 AM

Hi Benjy,

I am an avid fan of a show called Top Gear, but only the pre 2016 shows - the ones with Jeremy, Richard and James. I learn a lot from them and I think it would be a great starting point for your class.

Here is a great example of an ethical solution to a problem they created. I think the world would be a better place if all engineers designed products as good as these guys and also took responsibility when things go wrong.

I hope you find this helpful and you become a moral engineer. Good luck.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eoUutOsZoQ

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tamworth, UK.
Posts: 1464
Good Answers: 34
#27

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/07/2016 8:03 AM

Was your lecturer involved in the design and building of the World Trade Center towers that totally collapsed when damaged by aeroplanes hitting them 9/11.

__________________
When arguing mud-slinging gets you nowhere. Doing so means you lose ground.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 8600
Good Answers: 111
#28
In reply to #27

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/07/2016 9:16 AM

Ouch!

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 8600
Good Answers: 111
#29

Re: Ethics/Code of Conduct of an Engineer

09/07/2016 9:21 AM

A new syndrome about cheaters is now called "unethical amnesia", could also be called "corporate amnesia". Everyone thought someone would do X that would take care of perceived problem Y, no one did and nobody took responsibility for following up on the non-action, as a result everyone suffered.

Cheaters it turns out, have a convenient aspect in their brains that makes the memory of cheating more fuzzy, loss of details, could have been this, might have been that, I do not recall, etc. It make the frequency and likelihood of future cheating much more probable. Do not cheat the first time, then (1) your memory will serve you well, and (2) you will not have to remember which lie you told when to whom, in order to preserve a cover up. (3) You will not hate the image in your bathroom mirror, and (4) your night's sleep will be sound and complete.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 30 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); aurizon (1); Autobroker (1); Crabtree (2); Del the cat (1); dj95401 (2); dkwarner (1); horace40 (1); James Stewart (5); ka5s (2); lyn (3); Randall (1); Rixter (1); ronseto (2); SolarEagle (3); tcmtech (1); Tornado (1); wrenchtwirler (1)

Previous in Forum: Build the "Wall"? Part 2   Next in Forum: Archicad Libraries.

Advertisement