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New Shade of Blue

11/01/2016 11:23 PM

Just wanted to share this find.

This New Shade Of Blue Was Accidentally Discovered By Chemists

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#1

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/01/2016 11:47 PM

Interesting!

And rare.

Good find!

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 1:20 AM

Coincidence when looking for something different.

CR4 had a challenge question in 2009.

Found that before I posted mine.

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#14
In reply to #4

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 9:33 AM

Water is not colorless, it is actually pale blue. An empty swimming pool is white on the bottom. When it's filled with water, it's blue.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 9:49 AM

Not any longer. White plaster is passe'.

We just had ours re-done in Pebble-Tec.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 9:56 AM

That's gorgeous -- my compliments on your good taste.

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 10:11 AM

I give my wife all the credit.

This is not our actual pool, but what she picked out.

Ours looks the same, but steps are not convex.

Replastering a pool is quite a project, as we found out.

But after 30 years, it was time.

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#44
In reply to #15

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 6:00 PM

Loved our Pebble-Tec---Non skid, also slightly exfoliating.. (According to the Mrs.) and tough as nails..

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#20
In reply to #14

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 12:23 PM

It's blue because it refracts and scatters the blue light of the sky; and sometimes because of additives. Pure water is clear.

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#24
In reply to #20

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 3:15 PM

Water does have a visible (weak absorption spectrum), and the color cannot be seen without depth and a white surface behind the water.

You can see that transmission of visible wavelengths seems best around 430 nm.

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#25
In reply to #20

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 5:02 PM

Actually, indoor pools are blue also, where there is no sky to reflect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_water

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#30
In reply to #14

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 10:33 AM

Rixter: another question.

Specifically, what creates the blue hue of water ?

If water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen, does ( is ) hydrogen and oxygen have a color ( colored ) ?

Or is the combination (?)

Or of the retraction of light that allows us to see a color that is in a wavelength or spectrum that in the absence of refraction we couldn't see ?

I am speaking of absolutely pure water, devoid of the presence of any type or combination of minerals.

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#31
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Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 11:45 AM

See my post #20, and you can clearly see there is a weak absorbance of light in the wavelengths longer than about 460 nm. Water does not have an electronic transition in the visible range of the spectrum, but the harmonic transitions of some vibrational normal modes of energy are in the red end of the visible spectrum. Harmonic transitions are generally very weak due to low populations of the excited quantized states at room temperature, and quantum coupling rules. Thus the color is not intense until sufficient depth of water is reached for visual cues. A small amount of light scattering by water itself is also partially responsible for the very pale blue color.

Scattering intensity related to the frequency of light to the fourth power, so it is very reduced at longer wavelengths.

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#34
In reply to #30

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 2:16 PM

According to wiki, it is a combination of O-H bond stretching resonances. It's a very weak interaction so it takes lots of water to see the color.

"The intrinsic color of liquid water may be demonstrated by looking at a white light source through a long pipe that is filled with purified water and closed at both ends with a transparent window. The light turquoise blue color is caused by weak absorption in the red part of the visible spectrum.[2][3]

For most substances, absorptions in the visible spectrum are usually attributed to excitations of electronic energy states. However, water is a simple 3-atom molecule, H2O, and all its electronic absorptions occur in the ultraviolet region of the electromagnetic spectrum and are therefore not responsible for the color of water in the visible region of the spectrum.[citation needed] Nevertheless, the water molecule has three fundamental modes of vibration, including two stretching vibrations of the O-H bonds which occur at v1 = 3650 cm−1 and v3 = 3755 cm−1. Absorption due to these vibrations occurs in the infrared region of the spectrum. The absorption in the visible spectrum is due mainly to the harmonic v1 + 3v3 = 14,318 cm−1, which is equivalent to a wavelength of 698 nm.[2]

Absorption intensity decreases markedly with each successive overtone, resulting in very weak absorption for the third overtone. For this reason, the pipe needs to have a length of a meter or more and the water must be purified by microfiltration to remove any particles that could produce Mie scattering.[citation needed] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_water

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#47
In reply to #14

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/08/2016 3:21 PM

HAHAAAAA oh, I hope you're joking.

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/09/2016 8:55 AM

Did you happen to notice comment #34, just above your own comment?

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#2

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 12:48 AM

Well I must say that looks a lot like phthalo blue, a color often used for a beautiful sky blue in paintings...but it's often difficult to tell a true color until you get it on the canvas...

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 1:18 AM

I just bumped into this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack

Should trigger a comment from Fredsky!

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 1:33 AM

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#21
In reply to #5

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 1:02 PM

I found a new blue too!

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#27
In reply to #21

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:20 PM

In the internet you find so many things!

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#6

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 5:41 AM

New? Paint chip #27418 duplicates it perfectly.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 6:04 AM

Tell us more!

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#22
In reply to #7

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 1:42 PM

I made that up completely out of the blue.

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#28
In reply to #22

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:21 PM

It had that hue to it!

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 7:25 AM

I suspect your paint chip contains a blend of different dyes that approximates this single pigment.

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#9

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:13 AM

Discussions over the internet of what the color looks like or how it compares to a similar shade are pretty much useless. The monitor you are using to access the information provides only a fraction of the range of colors (the gamut) that the eye can see. Unless everyone is using the same monitor, and the monitors are all calibrated, everyone will see the color differently. But even then it's not likely the color will be rendered properly.

The gamut of the monitor depends on the optics of the display. For an LCD screen it depends on the type of backlight (fluorescent lamp, white LED, RGB LED, RYGB LED, remote phosphor, quantum dot) and on the color filters within the LCD (and each manufacturer uses different filter sets); for plasma screens (and for CRTs) it depends on the phosphors the manufacturers used.

But no matter what is used, the colors on the screen are just a subset of what the eye sees. Here's a comparison of a typical HDTV monitor gamut with human vision at a nominal brightness level. If the 'new shade of blue' falls outside the HDTV triangle, it cannot be rendered correctly.

Further complicating this is that the camera used for taking the image also suffers from a limited range of color gamut for similar reasons - the filters within the camera provide only a subset of the range of colors the eye can see.

So discussions over the internet of what a color is (remember the viral 'what color is this dress?') is rather pointless.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:50 AM

All I know is that we have to take their word for it that this is a new shade of blue.
No its not a shade of Grey neither is it the blackest Nano-tube black ever. Its a discovery of a unique pigment by accident.

I think its worth noting. We shall not discuss how it looks like but rather how it came to happen.

But saying that it looks like something I have never seen. Maybe it falls into the triangle and we should really discuss it.

Thanks for the information. Its something not everyone is aware of.

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#26
In reply to #9

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:00 PM

What you say is true. Even seeing a color live would not be the same for everyone. Many people have some form of color perception problem (red-green or blue-yellow color blindness).

We all could look at a spectrometer plot and compare pigment A to pigment B reflections calibrated to the illuminating light source.

The spectral sensitivities of the three color pigments in the eye are known, so perhaps taking this into account the subjective "blueness" of a blue pigment could be estimated by comparing the eye "S" response to the other (M and L) response.

Spectral sensitivities (normalized responsivityspectra) of human cone cells, S, M, and L types

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_sensitivity

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#38
In reply to #26

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 12:00 PM

Does anyone else sometimes 'see' slightly different colors out of each eye? Sometimes I can get more of a green tint out of, say, my left eye than my right.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 12:16 PM

Yeah, but then I remember to take the cardboard glasses off after the 3d movie is over.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 2:11 PM

But I haven't been to a 3D movie in months... Ohhhhh! Wow, that's better. People still look at me funny though.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 3:04 PM

So is this a new phenomena? Newly noticed? Any change in intensity?

If your vision has always been that way without recent changes in intensity, it is probably just a difference in the cones in each eye.

If it is a new phenomena, especially if the effect is showing changes, you probably want to have it check out. Might be a cataract. Might be some sort of brain devouring bot maggot being gluttonous in your visual cortex....but probably not. The possible 'mights' abound.

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#46
In reply to #26

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/07/2016 7:17 AM
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#10

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:33 AM

Great post! To me the "new color" looks like cobalt blue -- what is so new about that? -- but even if the hues are close this new one doesn't release cyanide. That's a big deal for artists. My sister-in-law only used pastels until her kids were pretty much grown due to the poisonous compounds associated with some oil pigments.

This story reminded me of a wacky novel, Sacre Bleu by Christopher Moore. The "sacred blue" in the title is a rare pigment, infrequently used by the old masters. Probably looked a lot like this new one.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 8:53 AM

Thanks for sharing. Might have to read it at some point.

How wacky is wacky?

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#13
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Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 9:17 AM

Here's what the Washington Post said: "Moore’s work has tended to fall into what one critic called the “zonked-out comic horror” category, but “Sacre Bleu” is different. Let’s call it a historical comedy, with an emphasis on the comedy."

The book is set in the Paris art world in the late 19th century, and the main characters are people like Toulouse Lautrec and Theo Van Gogh (Vincent's brother). That's all normal enough, but the "sacred blue" pigment gets doled out selectively by a character who has lived for centuries and who sort of shape-shifts as necessary. Parts of the book were so funny I laughed out loud. It's not long.

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#19
In reply to #10

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 12:20 PM

I had not heard of that, but your comment reminds me of the movie 'The Red Violin'. I wonder if that's where the screenwriters, Don McKellar and François Girard, got the idea for the movie.

I am also reminded of the 'the rarest blue' - a shade of sky blue mentioned in the bible, but which has only recently (maybe?) been rediscovered.

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#29
In reply to #19

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 8:02 AM

You're right -- I'd forgotten about The Red Violin. The conceit in Sacre Bleu is similar.

Could be that the 'rarest blue' also helped inspire the author. He's said that a meditation on the color blue was the genesis for the book.

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#17

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 10:02 AM

Awesome.

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#23

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/02/2016 3:08 PM

So it is a stable form of manganese oxide less oxidized than MnO2?

That is indeed a most beautiful hue of deep, deep blue.

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#32

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 1:14 PM

"...Additionally, unlike Prussian blue or Cobalt blue pigments, it doesn’t release cyanide and is not carcinogenic ...."
.
The cyanide groups on prussian blue are so tightly bound it would be very difficult to separate any intact under normal circumstances. Prussian blue is of very low toxicity. It is used as a treatment for certain types of metal poisoning. No indication of being carcinogenic.
.
Cobalt blue is somewhat toxic, but it also does not release cyanide nor have indication of carcinogenity.
.
Are they just making stuff up to seem informed/exciting??? ....or is someone hoping to create huge demand for this pigment? I wonder how they are so certain their new yttrium indium manganese oxide is noncarcinogenic?

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 1:50 PM

I agree with your point about Prussian Blue. Who knows all that much about YInMn Blue?

YInMn Blue (for yttrium, indium, manganese) is an inorganic blue pigment that was accidentally discovered by Professor Mas Subramanian and his team at Oregon State University in 2009.[1][2]

Andrew E. Smith, a graduate student in the team, was researching electrical properties of manganese oxides that were mixed with other precursors and heated to 1,093 °C (1,967 °F). It is noteworthy for its vibrant, near-perfect blue color and unusually high NIR reflectance.[1][3][4]

It is not so much that the pigment is all that new (2009 discovery), rather that the intended application will be new. Who is the "they" you referred to about making stuff up?

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/03/2016 5:58 PM

They 'they' in the article implying prussian blue gives off cyanide and is toxic. The they that claims InYtMnO is not carcinogenic.

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#36
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Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 10:02 AM

I do believe that with strong heat, Prussian Blue will indeed evolve some HCN. I also believe that in very concentrated sulfuric acid, the same will result, not completely, but some HCN will be present in the head space.

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#37
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Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 11:47 AM

Very strong sulfuric acid and strong heating are specific nontypical conditions.

Nitrogen containing plastics can produce cyanogen and hydrogen cyanide if heated strongly. Teflon and Viton can produce gaseous fluorocarbons, and hydrofluoric acid is heated strongly with moisture present. But we don't generally claim plastics, Teflon or Viton 'release' HCN or HF.

.

BTW, I'm not so sure about strong heating of prussian blue yielding much buildup of HCN. First, you need the hydrogen....and it should be dry before decomposition because of the temperature. Second, cyanogen is highly flammable with a low flash point. It would likely ignite in atmosphere at temps sufficient to decompose prussian blue....yielding CO2 and N2 and maybe some oxides of nitrogen. Sure maybe some escapes, but claiming prussian blue 'releases' HCN is a bit sensational.

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#42
In reply to #37

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 3:04 PM

OK, then after further review, the play on the field is reversed. If this paint were exposed to blisteringly hot steam, then maybe HCN. Otherwise, don't breath burning blue paint fumes just because.

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#43
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Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 3:42 PM

Fair enough.

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#45

Re: New Shade of Blue

11/04/2016 6:11 PM

Great article in "Delancey Place", 7-25-16, on the history of paints in art.. It is an excellent website, with daily or nearly daily excerpts from interesting books one would not normally find ....

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