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Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/08/2016 2:54 PM

http://www.sciencealert.com/leaked-nasa-paper-shows-the-impossible-em-drive-really-does-work

"The results of NASA's tests on the 'impossible' EM Drive have been leaked, and they reveal that the controversial propulsion system really does work, and is capable of generating impressive thrust in a vacuum, even after error measurements have been accounted for.

The EM Drive has made headlines over the past year, because it offers the incredible possibility of a fuel-free propulsion system that could potentially get us to Mars in just 70 days. But there's one major problem: according to the current laws of physics, it shouldn't work."

Leaked Nasa Paper

So this means either the paper is wrong or our current understanding of physics is wrong.

Assuming our understanding of physics is wrong,

where do you think the correction ought to be?

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#1

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/08/2016 3:07 PM

The saying goes "If at first you don't succeed use a bigger hammer"

looks like "If you keep succeeding with a small lab experiment but still cannot understand why it is time to build a scaled-up prototype and see if the effect persists outside the small scale lab experiment to help better understand what's actually going on and if small variable errors are skewing the results while showing something that is in fact not actually there"

Not as catchy though, but that's science for you.

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#2

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/08/2016 3:48 PM

It still seems like such a minute amount of thrust per kilowatt. How many kilowatts do they have to spare on board?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/08/2016 4:37 PM

Well some Ion thrusters use 20.5 KW (Link) so I suspect it could be at least that.

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#4

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/08/2016 8:52 PM

I don't see anything suggesting conclusive results.

Did i miss something?

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#5
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Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/08/2016 10:12 PM

Small scale lab tests showed positive thrust results. Problem is previous tests by others on earth or in orbit (NASA, China space program) have also either shown the same or have been found to be flawed due tolerance errors, etc.

It's like tests of a pseudoscience phenomenon but not every single independent result has come back false, the positive results seem to indicate there may be something to it but the test scale is just too small so far to making the results too close to test setup and measurement uncertainties.

Need to go bigger and 'overwhelm those target uncertainties'.

Jack - Military OEM Contractor (among other things)

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/09/2016 11:05 AM

So the test pendulum needs to be a very large Swiss precision instrument, of the lowest mass possible...good luck with it.

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#8
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Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/09/2016 1:39 PM

No I was thinking of an actual really small scale prototype drive, not another lab experiment testing the force applied to an instrument.

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#7

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/09/2016 12:52 PM

"The neutrino[nb 1] was postulated first by Wolfgang Pauli in 1930 to explain how beta decay could conserve energy, momentum, and angular momentum (spin)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Pauli.27s_proposal

It turns out that neutrinos, almost impossible to detect, are real and save the conservation laws.

If EM Drive works, almost certainly "something" remains to be discovered. If the conservation laws don't hold, a great part of science needs to be redone.

Three questions need to be answered.

1. Does the EM Drive work?

2. If yes, how does it work?

3. Given the answer to #2, can it be scaled up to be useful?

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#9
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Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/10/2016 9:31 AM

Keep observong something unexpected and can't figure out how exactly this phenomena is possible?

.

Good news! A cracked team of some of the world's top scientists and theoriticians have devoted countless hours and whittled this problem down to the essence of a solution.

.

Unexpected and unexplainable in the current standard models are the two distinctive characteristics of 'dark_______'

Just choose what is filled in the blank. Stick with 'matter' or 'energy', though going with 'propellant' seems safe and if later 'dark propellant can be lumped with 'dark matter', well that's just another paper primed for publishing.

If you look at the shape of the volume into which they inject the microwaves, it does resemble an ejector/eductor pump in some aspects. Perhaps the microwaves transfer momentum to dark matter or maybe to neutrinos in a preferential direction

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Leaked NASA Paper Shows The 'Impossible' EM Drive Really Does Work

11/10/2016 3:09 PM

Unexpected and unexplainable in the current standard models are the two distinctive characteristics of 'dark_______'

magic?

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