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Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/08/2016 2:43 PM

Dear gurus- as I was a teen ager I read a book about history of science, as much as I rememeber there was written that in medieval medicine there was a strong belief that wounds cure must be followed with pus, otherwise the wound will not cure!

Does anyone of you know about it?

Thank you in advance

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#1

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 2:53 PM

some of it, when they don't have an real understanding on how the body reacts to an infection, they come up with a way and try to make sense of it.

As far as pus or draining, its the body immune and defense mechanism trying to attack the infection and drain away.

And in the medieval times, even a small wound is life threatening.

We wouldn't get into leeching

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#2

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 3:50 PM

Pus is a protein-rich fluid called liquor puris, usually whitish-yellow, yellow, or yellow brown in color. Pus consists of a buildup of dead leukocytes (white blood cells) from the body's immune system in response to infection.Aug 4, 2015

Form more:

Pus - Wikipedia

I agree with Dr. 911 Pus is bad. None would indicate a clean properly healing wound.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 5:15 PM

Thanks Lyn, I'm eating my lunch while I read this.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 5:24 PM

Hey, what's a few dead leukocytes between friends? Bon Appetit!

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 7:29 PM

Yes, Eating dead leukocytes strengthens the immune system, trust me, I'm a doctor.

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#15
In reply to #3

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 6:54 AM

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#16
In reply to #2

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 6:56 AM

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 7:17 AM

In the states, there are people that are pushing for $15.00/hour minimum wage for people who do this.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 7:21 AM

Which states in particular, though?

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 7:32 AM

its pretty much started on the west coast, California, Washington,.. and is working its way east.

I don't mind, if the quality is there, but I think there should be a bigger differential between a person that dropped out from a person with an associate degree (just earned)...

and if that happened, then there should be a bigger differential between a person that has an associate degree from a person with an undergraduate degree (just earned).

and if that happened, then there should be a bigger differential between a person that has an undergraduate degree from a person with an graduate degree (just earned).

well you get the picture.

I'm only mildly disappointed, when I go through a drive-through restaurant (take-a-way for Europeans), and I get home to find my order is screwed up. Now if that person is making $15.00/hr minimum. I would be livid,... to a point of making dinner at home.

Which as of the last few years, I'm doing more of. Because the quality of service is dropping

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#35
In reply to #21

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 10:57 AM

Everybody gets a cupcake, but only winners get sprinkles.

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#55
In reply to #21

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 10:24 PM

Livid ?

I seriously doubt that. People are making $10.00 an hour now.

If you were really able to get livid, you would already be, and you would be making dinner at home.

Of course maybe you have a tolerance for lividity, you have reached it in the past and once you got used to a certain level, it now will take a stronger dose to get,,, and next time an even stronger dose,, into infinitum.

This is a funny thread.

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#58
In reply to #55

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/10/2016 12:03 PM

Actually, I do cook at home more now than ever. When I do go out, it's actually to a sit down family style restaurant. And even there the service is slipping. In Europe, I believe it's not a common practice to TIPS, or an excepted practice, but I start with a 20% tip, and it goes from there, poor service, drops to 10%, good service 25% even 30%

The fast food place drive through, rarely I go. You get home, reach in your bag and find that there's a bun on top of your hamburger and no bun on the bottom.

or the wrong order.

As far as you post, I understand, one can acclimate to your environment. But some keep a standard.

and as far as the fast food quality, what one can actually search on the internet, there may even be a special sauce added onto your next order.

as far as being livid, no, you never put down people who serve your food.

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#28
In reply to #19

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 10:07 AM

What's wrong with that? That is only about a 150% increase from 25 years ago, what percentage have the CEO and board members pay increased?

I keep seeing this crap on the internet where they show a picture of a cop or medic or member of the military and say "this guy gets $15 / hr" and then shows a picture of someone doing unskilled labor and says "how does this guy deserve what the skilled worker makes?" I say both of them deserve a raise at the expense of the CEO who cannot spend a fraction of the money he / she earns in a year.

You talk about the economy going to shite, well I blame the CEO and wealth elite board members. They cannot spend the money they earn as well as the people who do the work that earns the money for the company.

Give more people a little bit more money and they will spend it and boost the economy instead of just watching the wealthy elite hoard it and buy a few expensive things they will never use or appreciate.

If you think this goes against my Ayn Rand signature line, you didn't understand the book Atlas Shrugged. The message I read in it is pay a man what he is worth for the work he does, don't give it to someone who doesn't deserve it...that goes doubly for the wealth elite.

Wealth is wasted on the rich :-/

Drew K

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#34
In reply to #28

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 10:50 AM

You do a lot of complaining and blaming, but you give no real solutions, and by the way just giving people money is not a solution. and reiterating someone else's comment is no solution either.

Here is an example.

you now brought up and talking about CEO's pay, that's the other end of the spectrum...

All spectrum of pay should be addressed the together., that I agree with

As far as the minimum of $15.00/hour, I agree there has to be some government over sight to avoid sweat shop type of conditions figuratively speak.

But, it also comes to a point where each individual has to take their own responsibility to make his labor worth $15.00/hr without an arbitrary value of $15.00/hr automatically being disperse to each and every individual. In other words, each individual needs to avoid lifes poor choices, and if not, or if circumstances put them in a position (such as health issues as an example), then correct them,

Now as for as the upper echelon of the corporate ladder, put that on a tier system.

if the pay is say just picking a number, more that 5 times the average employee at the company that employees 100 people, it becomes heavily taxed,

If the company employee 1,000 people, the trigger of being heavily tax increases, when the upper echelon salary increases to 10 times the average employee yearly wage.

If the company employee 10,000 people, the trigger of being heavily tax increases when the upper echelon salary increases to 25 times the average employee yearly wage. roughly and simplistically speaking

and that additional tax goes to education whether it be for grants to students, or school upgrades, or as supplement to increase a person who experience an unfortunate life's episode (such as an accident or health issue) to assist getting them self-sufficient.

And here's something you don't know Drew, "Wealth can be wasted, period" it doesn't discriminate.

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#44
In reply to #34

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:03 PM

You are right, I didn't offer a solution. I don't know the solution but raising awareness of the problem is a start; that is what Ayn Rand was trying to do.

I am just sick of watching hard working semi skilled and unskilled workers who are working so many jobs they cannot even think of improving their skills. The skilled workers are often working second jobs so they can provide for their families.

Why has our society devolved into a situation where so man skilled workers are dependent upon social aid programs? This isn't just in one country, I have seen this all over the world.

I recall my world history professor speaking about Rome: he said that a wealthy citizen once was offended when he discovered that he had been talking to a slave who was educated and in some position of benefit himself and wore nice clothes. The offended citizen complained to the senate and eventually the senate decreed that all slaves must identify themselves with some sort of garment (I think it was a patch or sleeve). This lasted until the senators looked out into the common areas and discovered that they were vastly outnumbered by the slaves and changed the law before the slaves realized that they could easily revolt and win freedom.

This is what I believe Ayn Rand was trying to show. The working people who are earning the profits for the companies should be compensated for their efforts honestly. Should they decide to shrug, it would be as devastating as if the mythical 'Atlas' were to shrug and destroy the world.

Drew K

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#46
In reply to #44

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:21 PM

To be honest, I didn't initially care for Ayn Rand, but that was only ignorance on my part, there is a lot more logic to it as I look into her work.

hard working semi skilled and unskilled workers who are working so many jobs they cannot even think of improving their skills. The skilled workers are often working second jobs so they can provide for their families.

That I agree with also. And the problem is that it feeds upon ones self and the longer one stays the more difficult it is to rise above it.

This is where I made a reference to of helping to get out of the situation cause by a health issue or circumstance where the extra taxes from CEO's go to get and raise them up and out of the dilemma. even if it was cause by poor life's choices.

A second chance, but its only temporary assistance in that case. They have to eventually be self sustaining.

Why has our society devolved into a situation where so man skilled workers are dependent upon social aid programs? This isn't just in one country, I have seen this all over the world.

That is the problem of becoming reliance of a government to support ones self. It becomes hell for the individuals.

Government social programs may of originated from good intentions but, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That is where you have to be careful.

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#59
In reply to #16

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/11/2016 1:30 PM

Yes, but he/she forgot to add water.

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#56
In reply to #2

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/10/2016 3:51 AM

Lyn- I like to know your atitude to the provocation where I mixed pus and aerodynamic.

Thank you in advance

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#5

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 7:10 PM

If Youtube allows, check the Tony Robinson series on the topic.

The only ancient cures I know directly to work are maggots, leaches and flesh-eating fish. All currently used, clearly in apt situations. Robinsons stuff is mainly hokkum being exposed, but you can google the rest. Very gross, but effective.

Festering pus needs to be cleaned, by any of the above horrible sounding methods.

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#14
In reply to #5

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 11:03 PM

Dr. Bluebottle at your service!

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#22
In reply to #14

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 8:00 AM

What is that? Whatever it is it looks to have a small leech on its neck-like area.

I suppose one of the benefits of using leeches it that they are pretty...

.

By the way, if the picture in the previous post is some form of maggot, it might just be an unattractive example. Some maggots are much cuter.

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#31
In reply to #14

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 10:18 AM

Where the heck did you find my MIL ?

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#39
In reply to #31

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 11:36 AM

Just followed the trail of MIL specs to Etherville! Nice place.

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 11:45 AM

Spent my morning doing some rewiring for her. Totally uncertified, so it's a good job nobody knows.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 11:47 AM

For some reason "insurance fire" came to mind when I read that.

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#51
In reply to #41

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:43 PM

Mum's the word.

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#43
In reply to #39

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 11:59 AM

More or less the view from my window...

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:11 PM

Nice! Interesting, too.

"30' Sound Mirror.
Two experimental acoustic mirrors were built on an area known as The Roughs. A 20′ mirror was built in 1923, later a 30′ mirror added nearby."

Why were those mirrors erected? For what purpose?

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#52
In reply to #43

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:47 PM

Found it: used during WWII to listen for the sound of approaching aircraft. Very interesting!

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 4:55 PM

Lol - I nearly went into extensive reply. There are several variant forms on the S.E. coast. The area still has lots of relics from the era. A project on the books is to open up a bunker in my FIL's garden. He lives on the edge of the 'White Cliffs', and I suspect it was some form of dorm for troops manning one of the many batteries. He only just found the long concealed entry point. Probably just empty space, but I'll go loopy if anything else is there. It would be a moral obligation to advise various authorities. Damp posters and rusty metal can reveal a lot. Anything remotely ballistic looking, and I sure as **** ain't going in there first ! That said, anyplace dug in chalk is iffy - oxygen depletion is a serious silent killer. I'll start a thread if anything cool is found.

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#54
In reply to #53

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 7:42 PM

I don't know how you have managed to restrain yourself. I am sure i would been inside within hours! You never know, there may be a WW11 bath buster in there.

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#57
In reply to #53

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/10/2016 10:54 AM

That is so cool! How much of it has been explored thus far? You suspect it was some sort of dorm so the excavated volume is quite large then?

Possibly you have access to, or could rig up, a blower like those often seen being used by people working in manholes, to ventilate the space as you're exploring it? Is there a danger of cave-ins? Did they often store ordnance in such places?

Interesting about oxygen depletion in chalk formations. I didn't know that. Is the oxygen removed as a result of a chemical reaction with the chalk, or does the chalk (being a carbonate) exude CO2 (possibly as a reaction product of acidic rainwater percolating through the formation?) which displaces the oxygen?

Sorry about all the questions. I'm just really curious.

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#6

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 7:13 PM

Medieval medicine in what geographic location and under what circumstances? ...and by whom? ...

..."Arrow extraction...

Treating a wound was and remains the most crucial part of any battlefield medicine, as this is what keeps soldiers alive. As remains true on the modern battlefield, hemorrhaging and shock were the number one killers. Thus, the initial control of these two things were of the utmost importance in medieval medicine.[82] Items such as the longbow were used widely throughout the medieval period, thus making arrow extracting a common practice among the armies of Medieval Europe. When extracting an arrow, there were three guidelines that were to be followed. The physicians should first examine the position of the arrow and the degree to which its parts are visible, the possibility of it being poisoned, the location of the wound, and the possibility of contamination with dirt and other debris. The second rule was to extract it delicately and swiftly. The third rule was to stop the flow of blood from the wound.[82] The arrowheads that were used against troops were typically not barbed or hooked, but were slim and designed to penetrate armor such as chain mail. Although this design may be useful as wounds were smaller, these arrows were more likely to embed in bone making them harder to extract.[84] If the arrow happened to be barbed or hooked it made the removal more challenging. Physicians would then let the wound purify, thus making the tissue softer and easier for arrow extraction.[85] After a soldier was wounded he was taken to a field hospital where the wound was assessed and cleaned, then if time permitted the soldier was sent to a camp hospital where his wound was closed for good and allowed to heal.[86]"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_medicine_of_Western_Europe

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#13
In reply to #6

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 11:01 PM

& I thought I was having a bad day!

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#18
In reply to #13

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 7:15 AM

a typical trip to the liquor store in Detroit.

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#26
In reply to #13

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 9:24 AM

I'm still trying to figure out what's on the top of his head...? It looks like a gas gauge....

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#48
In reply to #6

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:25 PM

Patients unfortunate enough to visit Prince of Wales hospital in Sydney come out looking like this.

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#8

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 7:43 PM

As a person who has chopped off most of my limbs only to have them miraculously grow back I can say that every deepish wound has three stages.

The oozing clear liquid stage is usually starts in the first week and ends in the second followed by nasty cheesecloth looking wet itchy skin that begins to form where the flesh was removed. By the third week scabs should begin to from nicely and in the fourth week all bandages should be coming off.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 9:25 PM

As a person who has chopped off most of my limbs only to have them miraculously grow back I can say that every deepish wound has three stages.

Nice to meet you Patrick Star....

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#23
In reply to #9

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 8:29 AM

Well.. I did slice off about a quarter inch of my index finger. and It grew back with no trace of the damage done.. When I retrieved the "tip" and went to wash it off my hands were a little shaky. I dropped it and watched it swirl right down the drain while pointing at back at me.. Rather ominous, painful and mildly humorous..

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 8:52 AM

so, your last sight of your finger was it giving you the 'finger', painfully humorous.

A very facetious finger of fate at that.

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#12
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Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 10:28 PM

So you ARE the Black Knight.

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 7:14 AM

That?, Well that is just a small flesh wound

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#24
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Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 8:37 AM

stunt double.. I saw this happen just this week!..

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#10

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 9:30 PM

One of the best ways to fight infection and gangrene, is to remove the dead skin. And the best way in the wild and now medical approved procedure.... for the most part is to let the maggots take care of it.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/08/2016 10:07 PM

I had a 'maggot based soap' or 'maggot based sunburn cream' joke in the pipe but just couldn't bring myself to post it.

You can all use your imagination instead, while considering what the 'maggot based bath and shower' concept I briefly thought of did.

Merry Christmas everyone!

<I'm dreaming of a white, wiggly Christmas....>

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#37
In reply to #11

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 11:12 AM

The soap that goes "fetch"?

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#27

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 9:25 AM

Dear gurus and friends- Here comes a big surprise! My question about medieval medicine was only an excuse, I used this therapeutic belief to try to make clear to many people "world wide" for the practical value of my aerodynamic concept, that it is possible to gain aerodynamic lift only by implementation of bernoulli's law, without any vertical reaction! And most important- Lift can be gained without any vortices.

I've done for many years lot of experiments that confirmed my theory, there are scientists that support me, but all those experiments were not done in a windtunnel, without this, it is impossible to confirm my theory.

I don't have any formal education, but as I discussed this topic with experienced scientists, I succeeded to convince them that the vortex, is only a side efect of the lift .And that reaction lift is necessary only when air speed is more than 100m'/sec.

The scientists use to say that the question what came earlier- the chicken or the egg isn't important.

But I claim that when we are able to indentify the natural powers, we can develope better technology.

For this reason I was trying to find some example to support my claim, and then I recalled the story about pus as a curing factor!

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#33
In reply to #27

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 10:32 AM

dear az_native.... we'll take it from here.

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#50
In reply to #27

Re: medieval medicine treatment

12/09/2016 12:29 PM

Dear az_native,

Have you considered running for office? "No new taxes" might make a nice campaign slogan.

Just an idea.

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#29

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 10:09 AM

The Catholic Medical practitioners from the middle-ages swore by fresh hot dung from the privy for your open sword wounds. Fresh hot dung poultice coming up.

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#30

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 10:12 AM

And not that you might have lost enough blood and fluids already but the doctors of mid-evil times felt that letting out a bit more blood might do you some good. And by no means do you take a bath because bathing washes away the humors and maintaining the humors was essential to good health.

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#32

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 10:26 AM

Only on CR4 can you find a "technical" discussion about pus!

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 11:00 AM

Pus?,.... I thought we were discussing politics

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#38
In reply to #36

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 11:18 AM

..is there a difference??

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#40

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 11:42 AM

Though some of us are old, none of us are old enough to remember the medieval period.

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#47
In reply to #40

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 12:24 PM

You've never seen Lyn, have you!

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/09/2016 12:27 PM

Oh, are we discussing Paleontology now?....

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#60
In reply to #49

Re: Medieval Medicine Treatment

12/11/2016 1:33 PM

Trust you to dig that one up.

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