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Novel Online Biology Lab

12/12/2016 3:30 PM

Since I posed the question about the quality of education in the US, I decided to follow up with this interesting approach to teaching a biology lab. The researchers propose significant economies of scale -- possibly not attainable but still also possibly do-able.

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#1

Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/12/2016 4:09 PM

It's changed a lot since I took Biology in high school. Dissecting a frog or grasshopper usually didn't teach me a whole lot. When I got done slicing and dicing, it was hard to tell what I had.

I guess it's good I went into engineering instead of surgical medicine.

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#2
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/12/2016 4:56 PM

"What? You want me to put the patient back together? I'm not very good at that part, I always seem to have parts leftover"

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#3
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/12/2016 5:16 PM

That's how they found out you didn't need stuff like tonsils, adenoids, an appendix, and maybe even a gall bladder....

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#5
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 12:43 AM

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#6
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 8:48 AM

An example of your woodworking skills, perhaps ?

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#7
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 9:13 AM

Good one!

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#9
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 10:07 AM

You mean to tell me your class was not supplied with surgical lenses, and appropriate sterile sutures? Those poor frogs! Our had a good recovery rate - all frogs released (to burial) after treatment. Operation success, patient dead.

Sharks on the other hand always arrived in formaldehyde. Most of the students are still surviving some 45 years later, no fault of the poor ventilation in that lab room.

As far as cells went back then, we could not view them at all, since our microscopes only had 60X objectives. We could lots of other plant (leaf) structures, and other interesting things.

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#4

Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/12/2016 6:09 PM

There's that word "cloud" again.

It's an interesting approach and I agree that little progress has been made in biology class in quite a while.

Everyone uses a computer in class these days, if not at home too. Today's graphics and computing power make this a great tool.

However, I see a dim future for education in the near "term".

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#8

Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 9:50 AM

That biology class approach may have led to the development and real world applications of the "D' Vinci" robots! Which are now getting popular, mostly used on laparoscopic surgical procedures..

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#10

Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 2:47 PM

This approach bothers me, particularly how remote the experiment is from the student. IMHO a large part of teaching a high school biology lab experiment is getting the students to realize the meticulous work it takes to set up an experiment. A failed experiment should also be a valuable lesson. Another thing I dislike of this remote lab is the implication that Science happens only in the virtual world of the internet. Comparing the microscopic structure of fresh versus moldy bread can teach so much more that a video game attached to some microbes.

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#11
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 4:13 PM

I concur Mr. RedFred that this learning application in biology lab experiments may be bothersome to some since the actual environmental and reality feeling is lost in the process.

In my opinion it is a lot scarier, worrisome, possibly even unethical when students move on with their lives, carrying this learning experience with them and routinely applying this learned approach in the field of medicine!

In the past, tele-medicine (via high res. tele-conference) was already used, linking medical specialists coming from different states for opinions, consultations, etc., while a patient is "asleep on the table!"

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#12
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 4:46 PM

I respectfully disagree with you and redfred on this.

There is no comparison with what kids do now on computers and virtual reality to what we did in biology lab 50 years ago when I took it. Cutting a worm, or a frog apart in no way resembles what happens in med school. Virtually nothing learned in a high school biology lab prepares someone for the practice of internal medicine.

Speaking as one who has had some of my internal parts removed by a Da Vinci machine I can highly recommend it. 3 weeks after surgery, I was back at work, whereas a younger friend took 6 weeks before he was able to venture outside his house. My operation was even more invasive than his, done the conventional way.

No, I'm fine with using the latest tools available.

I just can't get used to that "c" word.

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#13
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 7:48 PM

Mr. Lyn,

I don't think there is anything to disagree with, and I also agree 50 years ago PCs were not even available as a learning tool in high school..

I want to congratulate you for coming out successfully unharmed from whatever ailment(s) you went in for where the Da Vinci machine was used... It is a very good device when properly utilized!

From 35+ years of personal exposures, Most of the time user errors are the real cause and not the technology itself that causes most of the litigations in healthcare!

I for one was lucky enough to have evaluated, used and tested the Da Vinci prior to its getting an FDA#, and be marketed for use on human!

By the way... I only used chunks of beef and pork during that tests and evaluation...just a clarification!

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#14
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 8:02 PM

Thanks for helping it (Da Vinci) become reality.

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#15
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 10:10 PM

Technology has certainly improved greatly since either of us were in high school. I hope that it continues to improve. I think you deserve a clarification on my apprehension.

I have no doubt that one day (if it's not already here) there will be a day when surgeons will not be in the same room as their patients. These surgeons will remotely perform on their video games on one patient after another until either they fail their next qualifying challenge or a noticeable mishap happens that injures a patient. Surgeons deserve most of the recognition they get in repairing a human body. What most patients don't grasp is that the majority of risk to a patient's life is not in the surgeon's hands but in the hands, mind, eyes, nose and ears of the anesthesiologist, scrub nurse, post-op nurse, clinical pathologist etc. that allow a surgeon to operate.

Focusing high school Biology training on what will be good for a surgeon ignores what needs to be known and respected by the support staff for surgery to be successful.

I agree that 50 year old high school biology training is insufficient for a surgeon. It was insufficient then and it certainly is now. I just don't want the populous to think Biology only happens in virtual space.

The same Biology that makes bread, spoils bread. Misunderstanding Biology can make a simple head cold lethal.

As I said, this approach of isolating students from a Biological experiment bothers me. When my apprehensions are met with either sound reasons or if this approach is just an augmentation of standard learning instead of replacing it then my worries have been met.

I'm glad your surgery went well!

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#16
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/13/2016 10:19 PM

Thanks. Me too!

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#17
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Re: Novel Online Biology Lab

12/14/2016 1:04 AM

Mr. Redfred -

I'm afraid that 'one day' you mentioned has been here around /with us since the turn of the century. I believe there is at least one unit installed in the NYC area where I did the test, evaluation and final acceptance sometime aound 2000-01.

I'm afraid your concerns /reservations were also shared and expressed by me at that time while doing an evaluations on the Da Vinci robotics device..After completing the initial machine setup and joy sticks fine tuning for any hand tremors in surgical procedures, I started a series of slicing/ disecting, suturing, coagulating, etc., completing my simulation tests by just watching the video monitor..

The robotics surgical procedure and setup is geared in such a way ithe surgeon may or may not be present, in the same vicinity of his patient...

Only the surgeon's assistants, nurse(s) and technicians assisting in the surgery stayed around the patients. Either to watch and observe, report or replace any surgical instruments needed/ attached to the robotic arms and for any other contingencies!

The surgeon's work console (video monitor, joysticks, audio, etc.) were all linked via a fiber network. Theoretically as long as a stable fiber network is available, the console can be in any room /floor, place away from the operating suite where the robotic was installed!

IMHO, influenced by most sentinel events (reported or not) in this environment, the patient(s) most of the time receives the short end of the stick!

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BestInShow (1); jack of all trades (1); James Stewart (1); lyn (5); redfred (2); Rixter (1); SolarEagle (1); Tornado (1); vsar (4)

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