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Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 3:55 PM

I have a 2001 Chevrolet Silverado Pickup truck. Not a giant on the road, only has the V6 engine. Not a sub-size mini-Pickup either.

I have noticed for several winters now, that there is a lot of metallic pinging when the engine is very cold, and this lasts for about 1-2 minutes, then she is quiet and smooth, good power, but it appears that fuel economy is not what it once was. Maybe it is time for injector cleaning.

Here is my point: I go to a local fast oil-change place where an old (I mean old) friend is the bosses boss. They use these after-market oil filters that are purchased wholesale. My buddies at work say that I should bring my own AC Delco filter (has an internal check valve) that prevents the oil from running all down to the pan after shut down. Am I actually damaging my truck by allowing these generic oil filters?

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#1

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:09 PM

Found this....haha

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#2
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:29 PM

Yeah, that was some nasty looking oil, or am I just confused?

Thanks, bud, for the nice video. Wish me some luck.

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#34
In reply to #2

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/04/2017 2:48 AM

It's the sign of a motor that didn't have regular oil changes. It's very doubtful that you'll find many motors that will have this much sludge buildup.

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#4
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:47 PM

Ford's Triton series engines occasionally do that lifter tick so once again Chevy had to copy Ford (and outdo them) by making theirs do it all the time.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:49 PM

Mine only does it when the weather is cold, is it a cold-shoulder Ford in disguise?

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#20
In reply to #7

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 12:02 PM

drain the 50 weight and put 5w in

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#24
In reply to #20

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 10:03 AM

I am not running 50W, silly man, Castrol 10W30 synthetic.

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#8
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 5:00 PM

Ford's do it for a different reason, bad chain tensioners and worn chain guides. Chevy's do it for lazy lifters that don't hold pressure. In my driveway right now is a 2000 Ford F-150 up on ramps with a 2-valve Triton 5.4L with nasty sounding valve train. The valve covers will be off soon, followed by the front engine cover so I can replace the timing chains, guides, hydraulic tensioners, and crankshaft chain sprocket.

About a year ago, my Ford started to 'clatter' momentarily just off-idle while accelerating, but it was quiet at idle and at speed. It was worse in colder weather. It progressively got worse so a few weeks ago, I stopped driving it altogether until I could replace the chains and stuff. It started to make uglier sounds than just the light 'clatter'. The Ford has about 150,000 miles on it.

My Suburban has about 250,000 miles on it.

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#35
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/04/2017 3:02 AM

Correct! The noise they make is much different.

The Jaguar 4.0 V-8 had a very bad timing chain tensioner problem. Motors were going at 30K miles or less. The plastic tensioner would wear and fall apart, which allowed the timing chain to become slack and jump a cog or two. Valves hit the piston and the motor is gone. The Jaguar 4.0 V-8 was designed when they were owned by Ford and the motor was decontented and used in the Lincoln LS and T-birds. When Ford got hold of the 3.9 V-8, it was actually a pretty good motor.

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#14
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 8:22 AM

Great video, thanks.

It appears to me that the filter was probably originally OK and that the problem was old mineral oil, probably not replaced as often as it should be either.

There is nothing better than a good synthetic oil and a good filter. Keeps the engine clean and dumps all the crap in the filter, as it is supposed to...

I haven't owned a car and used mineral oil in the engine for probably 25 years or more....never had an engine fail either....and had some very high mileages too....

Synthetic for me, always.

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#3

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:32 PM

Try one and see if it makes a difference.

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#5
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:48 PM

quite right.

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#6

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 4:49 PM

My '02 Chevy Suburban with the 5.3L Vortec has developed a loud ticking at cold start up, more noticeable in the winter than summer months. I have at least one lazy lifter. Since it clears up in less than a half-mile, I've just been ignoring it.

I baby my engines until the temp gauge moves up in the world, so I don't think any damage will come of it. Opening a valve too little causes far less damage than opening one up too far (or at the wrong 'time').

People get too wrapped around the axle about oil filters. Most filters, even the cheap ones have an internal check valve to help reduce drainback. If you are curious, you could observe the oil pressure gauge at start-up and time how long it takes to get to a steady-state pressure. Then try a more expensive oil filter and measure it again. I'd wager you won't find a measurable difference.

There are so many urban legends about oil and filters. The only thing to remember about oil and filters are to change them.

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#9
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 5:03 PM

I never baby mine and I have ran multiple vehicles way way past the expected mileage and service life's most anyone who babies there's ever hopes to get.

Same with a number of people I know. 250,000 hard miles on a basic car or 350 - 500,000+ on bone stock marginally maintained and hard used pickups is normal life and treatment to us.

If they will start in the winter they will be driven normally. No point in wasting time and fuel waiting for an engine to warm up when driving it will get it there way quicker.

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#10
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 5:07 PM

To clarify, when I say baby, I just mean that I drive it (no idling), but I don't stomp on it until the temp starts to come up. But to be perfectly honest, once the lifters stop clattering, I could probably stomp it cold or not and the engine would be just fine either way.

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#25
In reply to #10

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 10:07 AM

Yeah, I learned to baby the acceleration rate on my engines a long time ago, after wringing out the impeller seal on water pump on 1968 Buick Special with the 350 cu.in.

That baby liked to run and accelerate quick. It is just hard on water pumps to do so, I am sure.

Not a race car, so getting tickets for speeding in it was no surprise.

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#11

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 5:50 PM

I've heard those sounds from Silverados before but I always just assumed they were singing eulogies for all the dead Cavaliers.

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#12

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/13/2017 6:31 PM

I have a '93 Chevy 3/4 ton conversion van with just over 100,000 miles.

It always get its oil changes and all repairs at the Chevy Dealer.

After about the first 500 miles on a new oil change it rattles on start-up in the mornings.

After about 10 seconds (or less) it quiets down and never makes any more noise. The wife drives it every day.

I do not think that is unusual with motors with a little wear.

I'd suggest that you buy a magnetic oil pan plug. Then if the wear is excessive, you'll have a warning.

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#13
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 1:28 AM

Lyn:

So, when you change the oil, and replace it with new oil, your essentially washing out the sludge buildup that is cushioning that worn out component in your engine.

Have you spoken with the dealer about your aforementioned 500 mile cacaphony and what if was their response ?

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#15
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 10:31 AM

I rather doubt that the "dealer" really cares anything about Lyn's truck with 100K miles on it! As far as "washing out the sludge"...you don't get sludge when you change the oil on a regular basis! My 2006 GMC 6L does the same thing.

You should hear my diesel tractor when I start that!

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#16
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 11:16 AM

We have!

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#17
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 11:24 AM

I doubt that "sludge" is cushioning anything.

It may have more to do with oil thinning out with use.

Finally, no I have not talked to the dealer, because this is fairly typical of these engines and I have no intention of doing anything about it. Take a look at your oil pressure gauge when you start your car/truck. They all start off at zero pounds and build pressure after a few seconds.

Remember, check valve or no, oil does drain back into the oil pan as soon as you turn the engine off.

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#36
In reply to #17

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/04/2017 3:23 AM

Here's a great video on engine oil and why it's important to change your oil at the manufacturers recommended interval. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYkg0oDUXs8#t=416.903187

For me, I don't take any of my cars to the dealer for service, but that's due to me having a really good mechanic and it's inconvenient for me (not to mention it can be costly). For most people, if you want the job done right, the dealer is one of the best places to go for an oil change. The filter will be oem and the oil is the one the manufacturer recommends. Jiffy Lube is a joke. Years ago, they stripped the drain plug on two of my cars (both with aluminum oil pans). They denied doing it, even though they were the only one who touched the bolt between oil changes. Consider what it takes to be a Jiffy Lube oil change tech - you have to be willing to work there at low wages and you have to be strong enough to loosen the bolt. Oh yeah, you also have to show up for work. I'll opt for someone who knows what they're doing.

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#18

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 11:50 AM

I don't want upset the flow of this thread, but your description refers to a pinging sound when the engine is cold. This sound could be pinging or detonation. I would try a tank of premium fuel and see if the noise goes away, or is significantly reduced. This would take your troubleshooting in a different direction.

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#19
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 11:57 AM

I seriously doubt what you say.

Preignition is much more likely to occur in a hot engine than a cold one.

Nobody I know would mistake the sound of preignition for bearing knock, and I give James more credit than to be mistaken about it.

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#26
In reply to #18

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 10:13 AM

Have already done that test, thanks. It is not knock, or clatter, but appears to be a pinging one on side of the engine (left and back looking at the radiator from the front of the truck). As long as weather is above freezing, no pinging 30 seconds after start-up. Very cold temperatures, (very cold around here is only 0 to -10 C), the pinging might last an entire minute.

Have considered running some additional upper cylinder lube during this last part of winter.

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#21

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 12:53 PM

This does sound like the lifters are tapping due to lack of lubrication in the top of the engine, noting that it stops after short warm up time would seem that oil pressure is good....I think a SAE 5w-30w half synthetic would be the oil recommended....what oil are you using.....I have a 2000 vortec-6 in my astrovan and that's what I use with no problems @166,000 miles...I use the quick change oil service too....

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#22
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 1:59 PM

I drove one of those (Astro van) to 400K miles!

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#27
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 10:16 AM

Castrol synthetic, 10w30 not quite every 3000 miles, only about 119,000 on it, usually 3.5 months between changes. Probably not being driven enough.

Oil pressure is just under 40 psi right after start-up, goes to 40 once things barely start warming up. No major leaks, maybe a rear main drip every day or three.

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#23

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/14/2017 2:12 PM

I for one have always use the cheapest oils I can find and at best did oil changes when the stuff started looking good and black or when whatever engine reached the point it started consuming more due to early breakdown.

I don't know how long my engines may last had I used the high end oils and did more precise oil changes but so far I have never lost one to oil damage that didn't come into my possession with already moderate wear and damage that gave me every reason to feel it was ready to give up at any moment to begin with.

I do know that so far most every engine I have had has outlasted the vehicle or machine it was in though.

The vehicles or machinery just wore out to the point it was no longer cost effective to use and thusly got replaced but the engine swer still running fine when that point was reached which to me says that cheap oil is obviously good enough to do what it needs to do and anything above that is just wasting money for what I do.

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#28
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 10:19 AM

Besides that, you need the oil you burn to be indistinguishable in appearance and odor from melted tires.

I almost agree with you, but once the oil begins to severely oxidize, the acidity can be a problem in some engines.

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#30
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 4:23 PM

Don't tell the Notorious North Dakota Tire Burner but, I tend to agree with him about change intervals.

After all, who recommends these intervals? Big oil!

Why? To sell OIL!

A friend's daughter bought a new Honda and NEVER changed the oil in it. I assume she at least added some occasionally, but don't know.

I think she drove it for 8-10 years.

Go figure.

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#31
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 4:50 PM

There are a lot of sides to the fence on this one. I prefer the one where I can nearly see through the oil on the dipstick. If the so-called oil smells like gas combined with something burning that used to be organic, and has lumps of carbon in it that are clearly visible, I seriously doubt the lubricity.

I never had clicking and clacking back in the day when I ran Havoline 40 wt in my L6 Ford F-150.

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#32
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/18/2017 6:33 AM

Maybe some engine types, low BHP per Liter, plus quality filters, might do that OK, but a friend of mine found out that high powered Audis cannot handle more than around 100,000 Kms, before a new engine is needed....he used the same trick, ONCE!

Some older Porsches need a new engine anyway at around that same mileage too......even with oil changes, though they have got much better over the last 20 years or so....I believe it was the air cooled ones.

Due to my upbringing and training over the last 70 years, I personally cannot do that, though I do stretch the distance between oil changes quite a lot. I am a great believer in good Synthetic oil and top quality filters....

My 2.0 TDI VW Touran from 2004, had a computer that took into account the usage and told me when an oil/filter change was needed. Usually between 33-40,000 Kms., in spite of towing heavy trailers.

I have the same engine in my Mitsubishi, but they want a rock solid 15,000 between changes. No computer!

I usually let it go to 30,000 with no problem as of now, just an incredibly low oil consumption.....something like a 1/2 a pint in 30,000 Kms.. Which implies to me an engine in a very good condition....

I can honestly say that I have not had an engine that "clicked & clacked" since I discovered Synthetic in the 80's.....

You only have to make the "heat test" between mineral and synthetic, and you are fully convinced.....

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#29
In reply to #23

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

01/17/2017 1:50 PM

Sam's Club best 10W-40. Been running that stuff for over twenty years. See no reason to buy expensive oils with lots of advertising and race sponsorships.

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#37
In reply to #23

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/04/2017 3:37 AM

Be careful with certain bottles of motor oil. At our local grocery store, they sell old, outdated SF motor oil. I bought a bottle in an emergency (only place open) and poured it into my engine. My mechanic told me to bring the car in and have it changed right away.

Here's a good site listing the ratings on the bottle of oil. API Service Rating for Motor Oil

Also, some oils have better properties against foaming (high rpm), viscosity breakdown (as the oil gets older or from heat), anti sludge, etc. The additives break down as the oil ages and you can do damage to the motor.

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#33

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/04/2017 2:47 AM

Hi James,

The noise is most likely in the upper end (valve lifters). Why valve lifters? They're hydraulic on your truck engine. When your truck gets old, the lifters take a while to "pump up" enough pressure to stop them from tapping.

The transmission oil trick. Don't do it. Transmission oil is an excellent cleaner - lots of detergent. What you don't want is a chunk of carbon to break loose and clog up something in the engine. You could wind up clogging an oil passage and starving a bearing - not good.

If you change your oil regularly, you shouldn't have deposits and you may be able to get away with putting some sort of cleaner in the engine. Again, I wouldn't do it - I'd rather have a little noise for a couple minutes vs an engine that needs a rebuild.

What you should do: When the engine is tapping, don't rev it too high. The tapping is due to a gap in the valvetrain. The noise is metal hitting metal. At low rpm, the force is pretty low. At high rpm, there's more force (higher momentum due to higher velocity). When the lifter "pumps up", then gap is gone and the engine can be run at higher rpm.

One last thing. When your motor is cold, baby it. When it warms up (not just when the temp gauge is to normal, but give it a few minutes after for all the parts to stabilize), then you can run it hard. It's also a good idea to push the engine hard once in a while. A quick full throttle acceleration is a good for the motor. Flooring it in high gear isn't a good idea. Neither is flooring it for too long a time.

I hope this helps.

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#38
In reply to #33

Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/06/2017 10:45 AM

I do baby her. Yes my pickup is definitely a "she". She does takes me places with what I need to carry along.

Once in a while I give here a good "soot blow". At least that is what we used to call it.

I agree that sudden engine acceleration from idle is not good on things like water pumps, etc.

I have always considered it a bad idea to mix unknown types of oils, since sometimes they will not "behave".

She is all of sixteen years old now. Now sure how many more "dog years" she has left.

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#39
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/10/2017 4:48 AM

Your 4.3L v-6 motor is a pretty good one. It's a 5.7 with 2 cylinders chopped off. I just checked the auction and there's quite a few V-6 Silverados with over 200K miles. One even has 399K!

When you have a chance, pick up a bottle of Sea Foam, fill the gas tank and pour a bottle in. I've used this stuff for years and it does a great job cleaning the fuel system and cleaning some carbon out of the combustion chamber.

Good luck with your truck - she has lots of years left in her!

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#40
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/10/2017 10:10 AM

Thanks. Any info on the rear main seal seeps? Get it fixed? I think it is only one drop or two per month, currently.

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#41
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/12/2017 3:46 AM

That's a problem that's a lot of work to fix. The engine leak stuff you buy at the store just swells the seals. It fixes it for a short time, then it gets worse. One or two drops a month is minimal and with such a small leak, it's mostly a nuisance. Know that it will get worse with time/use.

You know what the fix is. Drop the tranny and the oil pan (you may have enough clearance to do it without lifting the motor). Pull the clutch and flywheel (or flexplate) and you'll have access to the rear main seal. Most likely, it's a one piece unit that's bolted to the block. Remove the seal and install a new one - I recommend putting some light grease on the seal before installing (so it slides on easy and you don't damage the seal).

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#42
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/13/2017 11:55 AM

Sounds like a job for an actual mechanic in a "clean" shop, nor for a red-neck in a driveway, cussing a blue streak all through the neighborhood when he drops a five pound object on a finger nail, much less when the whole tranny drops on his chest.

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#43
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Re: Old Chevrolet Trucks vs. Fast Oil Change Places

02/17/2017 5:58 AM

I myself would pay someone to do it. I'd rather spend my time doing something important, like taking my better half out to dinner, working on my house or taking me dog for a walk!

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