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Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 8:41 AM

Material "DIN 1.4470" is used in wastewater. Is this appropriate?

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#1

Re: Material is used in wastewater

01/18/2017 8:48 AM

http://www.specialsteel-jy.com/1_4470_007.html (usual disclaimer)

https://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

Appropriateness depends on the application, which has been withheld from the forum; <...is used...> raises confidence.

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#2

Re: Material is used in wastewater

01/18/2017 8:49 AM

How about giving some useful information.

It's corrosion resistant steel. It should be fine.

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#3

Re: Material is used in wastewater

01/18/2017 9:05 AM
GX2CrNiMoN22-5-3
1.4470 (EN10213-4)
(10283) A 890 UNS J 92205
Duplex steel castings are equivalent to rolled and forged material 1.4462; for use in the oil, natural gas and chemical industries; high-strength, corrosion-resistant material

http://www.pleissner-guss.de/uk/materials/high-alloy-cast-steel/stainless-cast-steel-ferritic-austenitic-qualities-duplex.html

"

Excellent seawater corrosion resistance combined with nearly twice the strength of common stainless steels.

Applications: Offshore piping systems, couplings. Centrifuge, dewatering equipment. Pump, valve trim, pulp digesters

Information provided by MetalTek

Key Words:

Cast UNS J92205; Cast Grade CD3MN, 4A; Cast ASTM A890; Wrought UNS S31803; Wrought Grade 2205

"Any generally accepted material for sewers will be given consideration, but the material selected should be adapted to local conditions, such as: character of industrial wastes, possibility of septicity, soil characteristics, exceptionally heavy external loadings, abrasion, corrosion, and similar problems.

Suitable couplings complying with ASTM specifications shall be used for joining dissimilar materials. The leakage limitations on these joints shall be in accordance with Paragraphs 33.94 or 33.95.

All sewers shall be designed to prevent damage from superimposed live, dead, and frost induced loads. Proper allowance for loads on the sewer shall be made because of soil and potential groundwater conditions, as well as the width and depth of trench. Where necessary, special bedding, haunching and initial backfill, concrete cradle, or other special construction shall be used to withstand anticipated potential superimposed loading or loss of trench wall stability. See ASTM D 2321 or ASTM C 12 when appropriate.

For new pipe materials for which ASTM standards have not been established, the design engineer shall provide complete pipe specifications and installation specifications developed on the basis of criteria adequately documented and certified in writing by the pipe manufacturer to be satisfactory for the specific detailed plans."

http://10statesstandards.com/wastewaterstandards.html

I guess it depends on the conditions, environment, design life etc, as to what type of piping materials are used...Sounds like overkill to me, but I don't know what the application is....

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#16
In reply to #3

Re: Material is used in wastewater

01/18/2017 5:04 PM

Re-vacuum system wastewater. Pods sunk into ground, each pod can accommodate 3 properties. The pods are placed at strategic points around an area. They are all joined together by a single pipe, which in turn terminates at a pumping station housing the vacuum pump. Each pod has a electric pump which periodically pumps the contents, i.e. sewage into the main pipe and hopefully? Sucked into the vacuum pump and onto the main sewer works?. My problem is with the vacuum idea. A vacuum only occurs if the system is airtight (no holes). This is obvious to me when I see my wife complains of her vacuum cleaner is not drawing up the dust. This construction has been installed near to me some years ago (I have a 3 stage sewage system) so I am not on the system. Over the years I have seen heavy vehicles trundling along the road over these pods and the main pipe, the road actually sits on a pebble beach which is constantly moving, so to me there is got to be an issue with the vacuum being spoilt. Is anyone come across the same situation and how does it operate?

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Material is used in wastewater

01/19/2017 3:00 AM

Vacuum sewer systems as you describe (Well, nearly) are becoming more common. They handle very flat terrain well and are really suited to environmentally sensitive locations, since any leak is "sucked in" rather than leaked out.

I'll use your term "pods" for convenience.

The systems that I am aware of have no electric pump in each pod. That in some way would defeat the purpose. The pods here have level sensors that open a valve that is operated by the vacuum alone. These valves stay open for a short time (3 to 5 seconds) after the pod is emptied and it is that air (expanding from atmospheric pressure) that expands and assists the wastewater along the way.

The vacuum main is laid like a "sawtooth" and the water settles in the bottom of those "lifts" until another pod activates and lets more air into the line, progressively moving the waste until it reaches the vacuum acumulator tank. Our smallest system has around 300 property connections and the largest has been built to accomodate around 9000 properties as ultimate development in that area.

Trucks driving over the pods is no problem as the real action happens half a meter below those lids. The sawtooth form for the delivery pipe is important, but minor deflections would be no concern. The pipes are fusion welded to be hermetic seal and tested before property connection is allowed.

The accumulator tank is also fitted with level sensors and pumps to remove the sewage and deliver that into the treatment plant. Those pumps have to suck against the vacuum to draw off the sewage.

This marked as "off topic" since it doesn't relate to original post.

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#21
In reply to #16

Re: Material is used in wastewater

01/19/2017 9:59 AM

The fun part is when these so-called advanced plumbing systems fail, and odors back up into a home or into a business. To me, nothing is worse than traveling on the road, and walking into a convenience store/fuel stop, only to be almost knocked over by an odor so strong that it is nearly in living color - deep brown.

Makes one wonder what all bacteria are crawling all over all the beverage containers, in the coffee, all over the snack wrappers....yuckola.

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#4

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:04 AM

If H2S exist in wastewater?

It seems that no exact answer!

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:18 AM

You do not supply adequate information for anyone to provide an informed opinion.

20 questions is not my favorite game.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:36 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastewater

Wastewater

Origin

Wastewater can come from:

Human excreta (feces and urine) often mixed with used toilet paper or wipes; this is known as blackwater if it is collected with flush toilets

Washing water (personal, clothes, floors, dishes, cars, etc.), also known as greywater or sullage

..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide

Hydrogen sulfide (H2S)

Hydrogen sulfide often results from the prokaryotic breakdown of organic matter in the absence of oxygen gas, such as in swamps and sewers; this process is commonly known as anaerobic digestion. H

2S also occurs in volcanic gases, natural gas, and in some sources of well water. It is also present in natural halite type rock salts, most notably in Himalayan Black Salt, which is mostly harvested from the mineral-rich Salt Range mountains of Pakistan. The human body produces small amounts of H

2S and uses it as a signaling molecule.

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 2:06 PM

So what?

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:38 AM

H2S is hazardous waste category and is governed by applicable codes....

http://www.intertek.com/petroleum/testing/pipeline/

http://www.standard.no/pagefiles/1174/m-dp-001r1.pdf

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:54 AM

Thank you for "http://www.standard.no/pagefiles/1174/m-dp-001r1.pdf"

It looks like it's very useful for me.

But, I need Duplex stainless steel according to DIN (EN). I had ANSI (ASTM)

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:56 AM

It depends upon the source of the wastewater, which has been withheld from the forum.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 12:12 PM

http://10statesstandards.com/wastewaterstandards.html

....

42.25 Construction Materials

Materials shall be selected that are appropriate under conditions of exposure to hydrogen sulfide and other corrosive gases, greases, oils, and other constituents frequently present in wastewater. This is particularly important in the selection of metals and paints. Contact between dissimilar metals should be avoided or other provisions made to minimize galvanic action.

......

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 2:05 PM

So what?

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#8

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 11:43 AM

Reference "Centrifugal Pumps (third Edition) - Johann Friedrich Gulich"

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#12

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 1:55 PM

That all depends on the type and condition of the wastewater. Wastewater is a very generic term for something that has virtually endless breadth as a class.

Based upon your responses to other replies, I suspect you need uber-super duplex steel, or some sort of plastic. That is apparently nasty water, not just waste water.

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#15

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 2:08 PM

The application for this material still remains withheld from the forum.

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#17

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/18/2017 7:20 PM

Need to distinguish "sewage" and "Wastewater".

DIN 1.4470 is used well in seawater (no H2S) at a temperature of <25 ° C; pH> 6

A substance commonly found in wastewater are H2S (There are also many other substances).

Additionally, the pH of the waste water can be up to 5 -> 9 (or more)

In short, I need "Chemical Compatibility Database" of DIN 1.4470

If you know, can give me the document (or link) and I find

Thanks everyone

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 12:26 AM

I did a bit of searching and really couldn't find much in terms of chemical incompatibilities, which is what I think you're looking for.

How's about this approach: find out what material others are using in the same or very similar application elsewhere, whatever yours is.

Speaking of application, you've been asked several times now by others on this thread "What is your application?" and you still haven't answered their question. Still. Why not? It's a simple enough question, yes? So, what is your application?

I dunno, is it possible you don't know what your application is exactly? Just "something to do with wastewater and/or sewage"? If so, maybe you should start there and pin down exactly what you're trying to do, then worry about compatible materials later. Or ask your boss what you're supposed to be doing. Maybe you're a bit unclear on that, ay?

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 3:18 AM

Seawater is a different material to wastewater, principally because of the high concentrations of dissolved species.

Use plastics instead, then, if the information cannot be found or cannot be trusted. Plastics are routinely used as wetted materials in the 5<pH<9 region and widely used for many aspects of water and wastewater equipment.

Usually, discharge consents can be found in the region of 6<pH<9, however these are specific to each facility. If the local discharge pH is close to 5 then it may well be that the local facility is outside its local discharge consent limits and pH correction will be required.

In the UK, there is a suite of standards for the water industry known as "WIMES". After reading those, wastewater will cease to be the proverbial "rocket science" that it appears to be from this thread.

If in doubt, consult a qualified Process Engineer.

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#22
In reply to #17

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 10:01 AM

Basically you should not use that steel on sewage that is untreated. This is a bridge too far.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 10:22 AM

...because...?

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 2:04 PM

Primarily a waste of money when concrete will do. If this is for instrumentation, then I suggest other options, such as PVDF.

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#24

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 10:40 AM

Problem to be solved:

Material "DIN 1.4470" is used in wastewater. Is this appropriate?

1/ Material "DIN 1.4470":

From EN 10213, we have

+ Mechanical properties

+ Physical properties

+ Chemical composition

But we did not find "Chemical Compatibility Database"

2/ "Wastewater" is understood according to Wikipedia; WHO (World Health Organization) or regulations (laws) of your country (Example Florida Department) ...

Depending on each country, the composition (by weight) of authorized substances discharged into the environment may be different, but in general, they are standard.

In my country, National technical regulation on Domestic Wastewater.

Of which: Domestic wastewater is the wastewater discharged from human activities of people such as eating, drinking, bathing, personal hygiene..

Value of pollution parameters as a basis for calculating the permissible maximum value in domestic wastewater

No.

Parameter

Unit

C value

AB
1pH-5 - 95 - 9
2BOD

5 (200C)

mg/l3050
3Total suspended solids (TSS)mg/l50100
4Total dissolved solidsmg/l5001000
5Sulfide (as H2S)mg/l1.04.0
6Ammonium (as N)mg/l510
7Nitrate (NO3-) (as N)mg/l3050
8Animal fat and vegetable greasemg/l1020
9Total surface-active substancesmg/l510
10Phosphat (PO

43-) (as P)

mg/l610
11Total coliformsMPN/ 100ml3.0005.000

If the industrial wastewater

No.

Parameter

Unit

C value

AB
1-5 - 95 - 9
2pH6 - 95.5 - 9
3BOD

5 (200C)

mg/l3050
..........................................
22Sulfuamg/l0.20.5
..........................................

Same for wastewater from steel factory, paper production factory ...

Each country, the values in column A (B) may be different but the composition will not significantly different.

Generally there will be ion S-2 (H2S)

Combined (1) and (2) ---> Is this appropriate?

** Additional

DIN 1.4470 (DIN EN) are considered equivalent to S31803 (UNS, ANSI, ASTM)

I was determined S31803 can be susceptible to cracking in wastewater.

But DIN 1.4470 and S31803 is not completely homogeneous.

I need: "Material "DIN 1.4470" is used in wastewater. Is this appropriate?"

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#27
In reply to #24

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 2:09 PM

"But DIN 1.4470 and S31803 is not completely homogeneous."

Well, partner, neither is peanut brittle.

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#26

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/19/2017 2:07 PM

Why do you need to know?

Why would it not be appropriate? Politically? Economically? Gender Inappropriate? What?

If in doubt, do not use it, make a substitution.

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#28

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/20/2017 3:05 AM

Please describe the structure and the component into which this material is intended to be incorporated, preferably before senile dementia sets in here....

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#29

Re: Material is Used in Wastewater

01/20/2017 7:48 AM
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