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High Pulsed Power

01/25/2017 6:00 PM

How could I make relatively inexpensive pulsed power without using a lot of capacitors?

I need 2500 amps or more (voltage doesn't really matter) with a pulse time of less than 50us. Also time between pulses isnt very important but if possible I would like it to pulse every second.

Any input would be much appreciated and ask if you need more details.

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#1

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 6:04 PM

A really big, fast magneto?

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#2

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 6:12 PM

Another possibility is to use a fly-back transformer. Somehow, you have to be able to store up a lot of energy and release it quickly. Maybe a single-turn secondary on your fly-back transformer. Mind you, calling it a transformer is something of a common misnomer. It really should be called a coupled inductor. This coupled inductor will need a gap to store the energy and prevent it from saturating the core material. Your primary will be many, many turns of relatively small gauge wire and your secondary will be a single turn of a heavy copper bar.

Good luck with your quest.

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#3

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 6:41 PM

Without capacitors, maybe a lightning rod...

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 6:49 PM

i just dont want a huge cap bank

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#4

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 6:47 PM

Voltage matters if you're going to push that current through a resistance, so what is your load resistance/impedance? If it is, say, 2 ohms, you'll need 5000 volts. Voltage does matter.

2500 amps for 50 μs is 0.125 Coulombs of charge, however you get it. As your rep-rate is 1 pps, your average current is 125 mA, so no problems there.

What is your application?

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:03 PM

The loads resistance would be about 8.3 ohms. So I'd need 20725 volts

Lets ignore having a 1 pps rep rate and just say I need 1 pulse.

The application is creating intense magnetic fields using small coil to bend electrons

I still don't know how I could do this.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:19 PM

Wait wait wait....back the horse up.

Are you now saying you need pulsed 2500A through an 8.3 ohm resistive load?

This will NOT be cheap (and very dangerous) at the power levels required. Forget "a small coil" as this level of power will damage or vaporise simple wire coils.

Sounds like you might need something like this.

Exactly what are you trying to achieve or prove? Perhaps there is an easier, cheaper (and safer) way.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:30 PM

I know its dangerous and will be fairly expensive. I'm completely fine with the coil being vaporized because there will be a massive magnetic field generated. I'm just wondering if there is another way to get that power without a large capacitor bank.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:32 PM

What is your objection to using capacitors? They're the cleanest, simplest way to get the current you need.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:39 PM

They are not cheap and the discharge time isnt short enough

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 8:10 PM

Sandia's Z-machine discharges a pulse of 18 million amperes in under 100 nanoseconds. They use capacitors.

50 us is leisurely for capacitors, but minimising inductance is key. If you don't manage it, it can put severe constraints on your pulse risetime. What is your coil inductance?

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#51
In reply to #16

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 5:28 PM

btw they are switching to linear drive transformers instead of capacitors

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#56
In reply to #51

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:18 PM

Linear transformer drivers. They sure are, and those too use capacitance to store the energy.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:38 PM

At these high voltage and current levels not really. Capacitors are basically a momentary storage which allows you to not have to size the supply to provide 100% of the load, and the cheapest alternative I can think of.

Other methods can provide high current low voltage and low current high voltage without expensive capacitors but not both in a solution cheaper than using purpose built capacitors. I certainly wouldn't advise trying to build your own due to the extreme danger.

There may however be cheaper ways to generate the required magnetic field (like powerful magnets, but the first thing to find out is just how strong a field you need to generate to cause the deflection you require.

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#18
In reply to #9

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 8:46 PM

I'm completely fine with the coil being vaporized

Yes but the coil material (copper?) has to go somewhere and if it is too close to your target material won't this get polluted with fine molten copper particles?

Do you have an idea of distance between the laser, the magnetic coil and the target?

I think you will also have control issues timing the pulse to the magnetic field, especially if you have to time it to coincide with a temporary coil before it superheats and fails.

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#75
In reply to #7

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 8:14 AM

Allow me a little correction to your statement.

2500A will vaporise a coil made of 30GA wire => Most likely true

BUT

2500A will not vaporise a coil made of 2GA wire => I have done tests on this before. More on this below.

The problem the OP will have is the circuit inductance which will limit the current when such a short (and steep) pulse is used. You will need a specially low inductance circuit with a much higher voltage.

In my experiment I used a low inductance capacitor bank charged at 800VDC and short circuited it with a 600A IGBT to test the short circuit protection. Here is the waveform:

Result: this particular one reached ~2500A in ~4uS with a ~300V pulse since I didn't want to reach a higher current. I had less than 400nH total loop inductance (+ some resistive losses in the IGBT).

I hope that this helps.

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#79
In reply to #75

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 9:03 AM

Do you know how I can calculate the max current from the pulse of the cap bank

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#86
In reply to #79

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 10:17 AM

Yes I do but it is not simple.

The internal capacitance inductance and its ESR, the layout of the bank (1 cap, many, series, parallel), the type of interconnection circuit (busbars, wires, lamination).

To make it simple, ask a competent power electronic engineer or become one.

Is it what you want to do?

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#92
In reply to #79

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 1:34 PM

You said originally your coil was 0.5" diameter, 12 turns of 28 gauge copper wire, but you didn't say how long your coil is.

If the coil's (presumably-insulated) turns are touching, your coil is about 0.155 inches long. Assuming this is the case, your coil inductance is around 2.4 μH and its resistance about 0.102 ohms. By itself (neglecting all other resistances, inductances and capacitances in the circuit) your coil has a time constant of τ = L/R, or about 23.5 microseconds. That is, it'll take 23.5 microseconds for the current to reach about 63% of its final value at a given input voltage. If that voltage is 255 volts and does not vary, your final current will be within 1% of I = 255V / 0.102Ω or 2500A at 117 μs.

Thing is, if you use a capacitor to supply your power, it is discharging at the same time your coil is charging (storing energy in its magnetic field) complicating matters to the point where the current will not reach that level unless you start out with a higher voltage on the cap. I gets even more interesting: such a circuit is resonant - it'll ring, like a bell, as you can clearly see in the oscilloscope traces above.

How long it rings depends on the circuit resistance which serves to dampen the oscillations. The lower the resistance, the longer the oscillations will persist. Meanwhile your coil's magnetic field will oscillate as well, reversing polarity every half-cycle. All is not lost, however. You can use a larger capacitance to so that the oscillations have a period of much longer than your 50 μs window and simply make your measurements during that interval, letting the circuit 'ring-down' at its leisure after your measurements are taken.

Whatever you do, a low coil resistance simplifies matters considerably. It means you can use much-lower-voltage capacitors to deliver the current you need. Big difference between 255 volts (you will actually need more to overcome the inductance within your 50 μs time window) and 20750 volts, yes?

What I'm not sure about is whether you're still pursuing your Larmor radius project or wishing to make plasmas. You're already making plasmas with that laser, no?

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#95
In reply to #92

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 4:09 PM

Double checking and perhaps I have miscalculated, A 28awg 3 feet long has 0,195Ω resistance, Once it is coiled the resistance is doubled, 0.390Ω, giving 653amps on that coil at 255V. So using 0.09Ω coil resistance calculates to a o.045Ω wire resistance, gives 2833Amps. Correct me if I am wrong as it is a long while since doing calcs.

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#96
In reply to #95

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 5:40 PM

Single-build round 28-gauge copper magnet wire nominal diameter:

0.0137 in

.

Coil diameter:

0.5 in

.

Turns pitch (assumed):

0.0137 in

.

Number of turns, N:

12

.

Length of wire used, L:

L = N * sqrt([pi*dia]2 + [pitch]2)

L = 12 * sqrt([pi*0.5]2 + [0.0137]2)

L = 18.85 in

.

Resistance per 1000 feet:

65.33 ohms

.

Resistance per inch:

65.33 ohms / (1000 ft * 12 in/ft) = 0.00544 ohms/in

.

Resistance of coil:

18.85 in * 0.00544 ohms/in = 0.1026 ohms

.

Steady-state voltage across coil at 2500 A:

E = I * R

E = 2500 A * 0.1026 ohm

E = 256.6 volts

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#101
In reply to #96

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 8:49 AM

Yes, if the contact resistance does not over swamp the wire resistance that would be true. Good luck with that under normal circumstances without the use of wet mercury contacts.

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#102
In reply to #101

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 1:55 PM

'Wet mercury contacts'?

Heavens to Mergatroid! What do you in vision is going on here? Homopolar motor? Rail gun?

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#104
In reply to #102

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 2:15 PM

How would I know what a Lemur is up to, since I am just a baboon in West Texas...

2500 ampere is a fairly high current to be switched with dry contact (even silver IMHO).

Anything north of 100 KA should only be tackled with a thryratron.

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#111
In reply to #104

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 4:24 PM

The switch is being closed. It is not attempting to interrupt 2500 amps. Triggered spark gap could easily handle the task and is relatively straight forward and Hg-free.

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#97
In reply to #95

Re: High pulsed power

01/28/2017 12:57 PM

"Once it is coiled the resistance is doubled" What is this?

I know that winding the coil will work-harden the copper slightly, and that could affect the resistance a little, but doubling, I don't think so.

...or are you talking about impedance?

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#98
In reply to #97

Re: High pulsed power

01/28/2017 2:05 PM

Yes, I had resistance stuck in my brain. This converting from AWG back to metric is painful and got caught up with the values and though flow. Appologies to all on that faux pax.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:22 PM

You mean you're bending their trajectories? Why not use a large Nd magnet? How much 'bending' do you need? What are their velocities? What field strength? Also consider that your coil has inductance, inductance which fight that current pulse and which will have to be overcome.

What is your ultimate goal here? Maybe if you said more about that we could explore various approaches, possibly some you haven't thought of.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:36 PM

Sorry, yes I meant trajectories. Here's the experiment setup: I have a femtosecond laser pulse hitting a thin target, creating a bunch or electrons/ions and then I need to have the electrons have a larmor radius of about a micron. a big magnet would be impossible to get in the target chamber and would be very difficult to work with.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:41 PM

That approach generates a neutral plasma. You wish to get this radius in-situ, without separating the electrons from the ions? Your Larmor radius depends on the velocity, so what's the velocity? If it's just low-velocity electrons you need, use a thermionic emitter to generate a space charge. If you need to impart a velocity, use a small positive potential to pull them across a drift tube. More than one way to get small Larmor radii.

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#15
In reply to #11

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 7:42 PM

Can you enlarge the target chamber?

I have a femtosecond laser pulse hitting a thin target, creating a bunch or electrons/ions and then I need to have the electrons have a larmor radius of about a micron

This is getting way out of my personal knowledge comfort zone. I have never had to use lasers this way with this level of accuracy. How large and thin is the hole? Won't the hole circularity in the target effected by localised heating be far more of an issue?

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#23
In reply to #6

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 10:46 PM

Let's say you use a capacitor. Roughly how much capacitance are we looking at?

C = Q/V

C - Capacitance in Farads

Q - Charge in Coulombs

V - Voltage in Volts

C = 0.125 Coul / 20725 Volts = 6.031e-6 F ~ about 6 microfarads

6 uF doesn't sound like much, except for the voltage. Such capacitors are expensive unless you find a great deal on the surplus market, but they're not very common. A capacitor is also the cheapest route, even for expensive capacitors. Not much out there that can dump that much charge that quickly.

You'll also need a switch. Triggered spark gaps are one approach.

Now, assuming your circuit is purely resistive (it is not, but just for discussion, assume it is), your coil resistance and storage capacitor form a simple RC network having a time constant of τ = 8.3 ohms * 6.031e-6 F = ~50 μs, but it's not a square pulse - it's a decaying exponential. By the end of 50 μs your current will have dropped to ~920 A. 2500 A is only the initial current when the switch is closed. Meanwhile the field is decaying, causing your Larmor radii to expand. Something to consider when using energy-storage devices such as capacitors. If you need a (reasonably) constant field for 50 us, you're going to need a pulse-forming network to drive your coil. I don't know where else you're going to find a 21 kV, 2500 A square-pulse generator, if that's what you need.

Good luck.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 11:07 PM

the maximum pulse length is 50 us.

the decaying exponential is perfectly ok for my purposes at the moment...at least its a good place to start....I think. Im an undergrad just trying to learn more about this stuff and was given this project and asked to find a reasonably inexpensive solution....i definitely need to do more research on this

thank you for your help

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 11:21 PM

Does your uni's physics dept have such gear that you could borrow?

Do you have to generate your electrons/ions via the laser? Is that a requirement or an option? If it's micron-scale Larmor radii you need, does it matter how you produce those electrons? You can get those tiny radii using slowly-moving electrons in a moderately-strong field well within the range of permanent magnets, for instance. If you could that you can skip this whole business of producing titanic pulsed magnetic fields. If it has to be pulsed, slow electrons, a smaller field and a more conventional pulse generator could be an option. The approach you're considering right now isn't cheap any way you look at it. You're talking pretty specialised components and severe performance demands. Unless you can borrow or hire the gear, that means $$$.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 11:45 PM

i work in a laser lab so they do have to be generated using a laser. the electrons arent really slow, they are accelerated to relativistic speeds using target normal sheath acceleration (TNSA). we have used permanent magnets before for measuring the number of electrons but the radius larmor radius is too large (we used the largest magnet that could fit in the chamber).

Ive read somewhere that I could possible use MOSFETs for this kind of pulsed power. Do you know if this is true?

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 11:57 PM

Yeah, there are devices that switch that. They cost a bluddy fortune. Not only, but what is supplying them with power? Unless you get that coil resistance down you're still going to need 21 kV at 2500 amps.

Nor will your coil survive even close to 50 μs.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 12:03 AM

I would not expect the coil to survive. ok so caps are the cheapest?

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 12:11 AM

Yep. Switch them with a triggered spark gap. Your femtosecond laser could trigger it.

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#76
In reply to #29

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 8:20 AM

Gentlemen!

Relax a little. This is done on a regular basis by power electronics engineers.

The OP simply needs to talk to the electrical engineering department or contact a company that does power electronics.

We are not talking black magic here, just an unusual application.

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#44
In reply to #6

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 3:13 PM

What is "cheap"?

1 pulse per second at 20725 volts and 2500 amps even for a short duration pulse is the kind of power which would call for multiple MG cabinets and multiple cap banks with cycling capability.

These people can help...but "cheap" it will NOT be.

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#17

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 8:35 PM

If was simple and cheap, anybody could do it. Clearly there's a lot more to it than you thought, no? 2500 amps in 50 μs in a compact space without using capacitors and cheap. You rarely see all of these in the same sentence, and for good reason.

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#19

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 9:06 PM

You haven't said if you need to build this into your product, if you are making your own test equipment of if you just need to run a bank of tests and then you are done.

It sounds like you might need to buy, rent or go to a lab for surge testing or transient immunity testing. On the surge end I have used (many years ago) equipment from Keytek and Velonex. If I recall correctly I was normally testing with about 7 KVoc and about 3.5 KAsc. I don't recall if that was the equipment limit. I do recall that there was considerable ability to shape the pulse by changing the output filters (big parts). There would be equipment available for the various specifications of the US, European and other markets (commercial and military).

I would guess that renting this class of equipment would take a big hole out of 1K$/month but that is just a guess. There are several on-line sites that rent equipment.

I don't recall the current capability of the equipment for some military testing but I do recall that we had to place 2x4 lumber under the coax to prevent the test signals from blowing holes through the jacket and creating an arc welder between the center conductor and the chamber floor. That sounds a bit like the energy levels you are looking for.

MIL-STD-461 is available for free download from the internet. If any of the "CS" tests in there seem like they are at your energy levels then you now have common ground to use when talking to people. DO-160 is not available for free download but it includes sections on hitting airplanes with lightning. That seems to be the sandbox you want to play in.

A lot of the places I have been are local or regional only. At a national level NTS is one of several labs you could contact. I know this isn't what you are looking for but the people in the professional labs know how to play with high energy and still be oriented vertically at the end of the day. ... They only smoke during breaks.

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#20

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 9:08 PM
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#21

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 9:18 PM

Us knowing the coil dimensions, makeup and turns count would be helpful in determining the theoretical limits of how much magnetic flux yo will be trying to focus into a specific area.

A 8 ohm single coil turn made of carbon isn't going to generate a fraction of the magnetic flux as a 8 ohm coil made out of pure silver or one made from near superconducting foil.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 9:23 PM

It's the current that makes the field, not the material. 2500 amperes through any of those coils will generate the same field, all else being equal.

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#40
In reply to #22

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 12:01 PM

In my books they used to refer to 'Ampere turns' as being a significant factor in how strong of magnetic field a coil set can make.

1 amp through 12 turns is the same as 12 amps through one turn thusly the more turns you can get the 2500 amps though thusly the greater the field strength multiplication depending on the number of turns that can be made for a given measure of conductor resistance.

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#47
In reply to #40

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 5:16 PM

I responded to your comment which you made two hours before he revealed the number of turns to be 12. In your comment you spoke of only a single-turn 8-ohm coil, then mentioned different materials without saying anything about additional turns. And yes, you can make a single-turn, 8 ohm coil out of all those materials even whilst keeping the same coil dimensions, by varying the conductor cross-section. And of course additional turns will make the field stronger, but that's not what you said.

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#99
In reply to #47

Re: High pulsed power

01/28/2017 4:40 PM

I was figuring that most people take the term 'coil' to mean more than one loop/single turn of something.

Especially so if the requirements were to have a cross sectional are to give an 8+ ohm resistive value to it and still carry 2500 amps for even a fraction of a second before vaporizing.

Similar to saying 'I need a new tire for my tractor.' which to most people familiar with tractors and tires that I wont be buying an automotive tire or a steel wheel for it built a rubber based agricultural tire.

I guess I figured wrong.

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#25
In reply to #21

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 11:10 PM

.5 in dia. 28 gauge copper wire and 12 turns

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: High pulsed power

01/25/2017 11:51 PM

The fusing current - the current that will melt the wire in free air - is 14.5 amps for 28-gauge copper wire. At 2500 amperes, after the first few microseconds your coil will have turned into an arc surrounded by a shock wave. It will no longer be a coil at all and the field will probably be perpendicular to the direction you want it. At the end of 50 microseconds the shock wave will have expanded to a minimum of 3.4 centimetres and probably more than that because shock waves tend to exceed the speed of sound. You're dumping about 1300 joules into that space, btw. That can mess things up a bit for whatever's nearby. If it's in a vacuum chamber it doesn't matter because your coil be long gone by the end of 50 μs and your magnetic field won't be oriented nor shaped anywhere near what you need for your experiment.

At this point I would step back and think real hard about approaching this project from another angle.

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#32
In reply to #25

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 12:27 AM

One other thing. Even before the coil vaporises the enormous Lorentz force from the current will cause your coil to implode. How many nanoseconds do you have to make your measurements?

Are you sure you're not supposed to be developing a zeta-pinch machine, because you're certainly going about it the right way.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 2:37 AM

I am kinda...at least a small scale version. my lab will be heading in that direction soon. also i have plenty of time to take measurement and i can always just make a simulation and compare results.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 2:55 AM

For a coil resistance of 0.101 ohms, you'd need only 253 Volts to push 2500 amperes through it.

This scales down the problem considerably. Photoflash capacitors would work. They're cheap and can be had from eBay.

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#38
In reply to #32

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 9:16 AM

I'm thinking the coil is more likely to explode from the Lorentz forces, ala railgun.

In any case, I hope someone is thinking about the safety of this thing. Nobody dies in a thought experiment, but a real one can be deadly.

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 10:58 AM

The coil will first contract hard along its length before it vaporises.

Think of a single loop of wire with current flowing through it and the orientation of its magnetic field. Imagine looking at the loop edgewise where the arrow shaft is the loop and the arrowhead showing the direction of the current through the near edge: N ↑ S

Now put another, identical loop next to it: N ↑ S N ↑ S

They will pull together. At 2500 amps, hard. His coil consists essentially of 12 of these loops. It'll compress along its length as if hit by hammer.

A large pulse of current flowing through a hollow pipe or tube will crush it radially; the current in this case from lightning strike:

You see the same effect in an arc. The higher the current, the more the arc resembles a thread. Zeta-pinch effect.

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#41
In reply to #39

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 1:12 PM

Agreed two loops with current flowing in the same direction will attract. Currents flowing in opposite direction repel. The current in each loop will repel the current flowing in the opposite direction on the other side of the loop, forcing the loop open.

Implosion in the axial direction is probably self-limiting. Explosion in the radial direction is a problem. Failure in tension is harder to avoid than failure in compression.

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#52
In reply to #41

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 5:49 PM

"Implosion in the axial direction is probably self-limiting. Explosion in the radial direction is a problem."

Implosion in the radial direction is a piece of cake once the coil has liquefied. The (presumably enamel) insulation, now burnt away from the heat, allows the molten copper to fuse into a blob, the current passes straight through it, and now the blob contracts radially due to Lorentz forces, forming a molten filament. The temperature continues to increase and now bits of the blob vaporise, first along its thinner parts, producing gaps in which form arcs, radically increasing the temperature until the mass is now an expanding cloud of hot metal vapour in the middle of which is a filamentary arc whose radius grows as the field drops with the exponentially-decaying current. Meanwhile the hot metal vapour not entrained by the arc rapidly expands outward. The arc finally extinguishes and what remaining metal vapour entrained by it expands outward along with the rest.

Whether it is imploding or exploding or a combination thereof depends on where it is en route to its demise, no? We can sit and dissect this nanosecond-by-nanosecond if you like, as long as you bring the beer.

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#49
In reply to #39

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 5:22 PM

That is what I am going for eventually

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#70
In reply to #39

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 11:46 PM

For a short solenoid, Lorentz forces squeeze the coil turns together axially, while "magnetic pressure" explodes the coil radially...

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#93
In reply to #70

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 2:07 PM

If he uses a low-resistance coil he won't need to dump all that energy into it and and it won't even be an issue. Just a few Joules will do.

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#81
In reply to #39

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 9:54 AM

We used a large HV capacitor and a 1" thick by 6" wide copper flat curled into a single partial loop of about 340 degrees (I suppose), so that the leading and exiting copper flats were sufficiently apart (by about 1" of high dielectric plastic) to not arc over.

I think we routinely got >100,000 amps from this experiment where there was a spectrographic spark axially in the coil loop (inside a quartz tube), such that the spark underwent Z pinch that heated the plasma sufficiently to reach the fifth ionization of aluminum.

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#82
In reply to #81

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 9:59 AM

Can you give me the voltage and capacitance of your capacitor. was the capacitance in the uf range?

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#87
In reply to #82

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 10:37 AM

If I recall it was as follows: blah blah blah.

Here is a better, more modern one with ribbon loops over the plasma tube.

plasma in theta pinch

A Scheeline pulsed theta pinch plasma experiments

You will open up an interesting world in these two links.

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#88
In reply to #87

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 11:08 AM

thank you for the link

they will absolutley open up an interesting world for me. ill enjoy reading through them.

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#33
In reply to #25

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 2:25 AM

For a single-layer copper solenoid of those dimensions and assuming turns are adjacent (no gaps) I get a resistance of around 0.101 ohms. 28-gauge wire is about 0.213 ohms/metre.

Where did you get 8.3 ohms? You'd need ~39 m (~128 feet) of wire to get 8.3 ohms.

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#50
In reply to #33

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 5:25 PM

The measured resistance of the coil is about 8.3 ohms.

its high resistance wire because I want it to heat up alot

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#54
In reply to #50

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:02 PM

It's 'high resistance' but yet you say it's made of copper? Both of these cannot be true for a coil that size. What you've got there either has 80+ times the resistivity of copper or you made a pretty bad measurement error.

Why do you want it to 'heat up a lot?' Isn't your objective to generate a strong magnetic field? What's heat got to do with that?

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:18 PM

Sorry, I did not mean to say copper. fusion needs heat

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#58
In reply to #55

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:27 PM

We're now talking about fusion? Wasn't your previous objective to reduce relativistic electron Larmor radii to micron scales using intense magnetic fields? But now it's fusion?

Forgive me for being so blunt, but you appear to be weaving this tale as we go along and I, for one, feel like I'm wasting my time here, shooting at moving target of increasingly dubious value. Just sayin'.

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#62
In reply to #58

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 7:51 PM

long term goal for my lab is fusion experiments

short term goal is micron scale larmor radii

im sorry, i have problems focusing on one thing at a time. people brought up z-pinch stuff and it sent my mind in a different direction.

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 8:13 PM

im sorry, i have problems focusing on one thing at a time.

Well your well on your way then to becoming a scientist if you aren't one already.

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 8:15 PM

im a sophomore in college...so not quite there

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#57
In reply to #50

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:20 PM

I don't understand the heat comment either. High resistance wire is going to make your required voltage for the required current so much harder (and more dangerous) to generate.

Are you trying to fractionally extend the time the coil lasts before it vaporises to allow more time to sync the deflection force to the pulse?

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#61
In reply to #57

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 7:02 PM

If it's high temps he wants, why not use tungsten wire to forestall the inevitable? Its resistivity is only 3.3 times that of copper.

This whole thing is making less and less sense the more he tells us. I'm outta here.

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#65
In reply to #57

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 8:26 PM

Im hoping that the high heat will create a plasma mirror which we can use to clean up the laser pulse (remove or reduce the prepulse)

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#84
In reply to #57

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 10:05 AM

I agree, what he wants is a superconducting ring, and a Faraday generator to inject large values of current into the ring.

Whosoever places said ring on their finger becomes invisible in a short span of time.

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#89
In reply to #84

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 11:24 AM

But so precious, my Precious, the resultant flash will blind the All Seeing Eye of Mordor, or the postman at the front door.

It is kind of on the realm of producing a laser weapon of sorts by utilising a plasma field. Stargate II? Hmm, Dr Spock! Never mind the laser, just cook me in the microwave.

So it is the ambition to utilise the plasma field to form a fusion when the laser is fired into it? (If I understand the unfolding plot so far). The heat you are hoping will assist forming a bonding of the nuclei from the plasma or in the plasma.

I could be your father Luke!

http://www.news18.com/news/tech/most-powerful-super-laser-developed-by-britain-and-czech-scientists-1341353.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3179045/The-Death-Star-weapon-Japan-just-fired-world-s-powerful-laser.html

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#90
In reply to #89

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 11:52 AM

One of these days man's grasp will exceed his reach. Then look out.

I hope to be back home in the Shire long before then.

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#91
In reply to #90

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 12:31 PM

Sorry my Precious, the Shire has been over run by marauding hamsters who grasped mans reach and and sold it into slavery. The lookout on duty at the time, (Blind Odorf, who is actually a venitian hobbit), stated on that sad day, "He never saw them coming'.

I am sure you saw that coming as you are not blind. By the way, my window blind. Can't see a thing through it.

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#103
In reply to #91

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 2:15 PM

We have tamed the marauding hamsters plaguing Middle Earth, its all cool now.

Regarding 'Blind' Odorf (we just call him Odorf thanks), we all pitched in and brought him a seeing eye Rhosgobel Rabbit. He now puts Usian Bolt to shame and is never late for anything.

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#105
In reply to #103

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 2:17 PM

I can see through Alice's Looking Glass that lunch time is over (by nigh onto an hour by now).

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#108
In reply to #105

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 2:45 PM

My looking glass has cataracts and I cannot get cover on Odam I Care. As for lunch break, what is this silly notion?

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#107
In reply to #103

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 2:37 PM

So I can go home now?

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#109
In reply to #107

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 2:56 PM

That seemed almost a wiltingly tired request. I am not sure the world is safe for hobbits just yet.

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#110
In reply to #109

Re: High pulsed power

01/30/2017 3:41 PM

Bit of a downer these few days my Precious, but I sure would like to go home. As long as the Orcs and Dorks stop messing with Middle earth and the Forrest Gump stays magical, then Thearesa may cross factor this new boy band, (Trump Pets), and the kingdom of Morredoor can unite with Slidingdoor and I can go back to my barrow. NB. Posh hobbits live in barrows, the lesser hobbits live in burrows. Ah Well, Brandiwyne is nice for now.

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#66
In reply to #50

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 10:18 PM

Your idea about wanting/needing higher resistance in order to obtain higher heating rates is whackadoodle.

Ohmic heating power is equivalent to I2r losses.

I^2 r = V^2 /r

This shows that heating in the wire is inversely proportional to the resistance. Less resistance, not more will heat kore quickly.

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 10:22 PM

ok thank you

but what would happen if i used a high resistance wire and put a high energy pulse through it

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#68
In reply to #67

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 10:55 PM

Less than had you used a low resistance wire and it would take longer.

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 10:58 PM

ah yes

and resistance increases with higher temperatures so i do want a really low resistance wire

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#85
In reply to #66

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 10:11 AM

That is why common electric heaters have fairly low resistance metal coils. (at least the old cheapy ones did).

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#83
In reply to #50

Re: High pulsed power

01/27/2017 10:01 AM

You are going to kill yourself, and everyone in the lab, unless you really start doing your math. Use a single nickel wire in an atmosphere of hydrogen (pure), and run about 150,000 amps through it. This will disrupt the crystal structure of the nickel wire, and cause the interstitial hydrogen to capture electrons, and you will produce cold neutrons.

Cold neutrons will result in the formation of neutron activated atoms of all types present, but nickel has one of the lower cold neutron cross-sections, if I recall.

Hydrogen -> Deuterium -> Tritium -> ?? (Quatrium) >>> 4He + Energy

IF you don't believe, then check out Brillouin Energy Corporation.

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#36

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 3:33 AM

The first thing that comes to mind is an overgrown one of these:

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#37

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 3:39 AM

Have you considered batteries instead of capacitors as your power source?

The apparent short circuit effects can be quite nasty to the battery plates and repeated cycles will cause cell failure due to physical stresses, but you then have a rechargeable "energy store".

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#42
In reply to #37

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 2:16 PM

I considered mentioning this (and supercaps) in my previous post but the available voltage is just too low and strings of these are going to be way more expensive than capacitors (regardless of battery chemistry).

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#53
In reply to #42

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 5:57 PM

In the past supercaps had a fairly high impedance which severely limited their discharge rate even when short-circuited. I don't know if this is still a problem.

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#59
In reply to #53

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:30 PM

We are not talking about few Farad high impedance types used for such things as low current memory backup. High continuous and pulse current thousands of Farad capacitor technology has really taken of in the last decade or more.

Example

Reasonably priced too, but still not enough to replace batteries except in specialty applications. They are becoming more common as an addition to battery systems there their high pulse current and charge current capability offer great advantages (eg- electric vehicles)

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: High pulsed power

01/26/2017 6:49 PM

I haven't followed this tech much so my info is a bit dated.

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#43

Re: High Pulsed Power

01/26/2017 2:47 PM

supercaps

and turn it like this

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: High Pulsed Power

01/26/2017 3:51 PM

No, see post #32. These supercaps are far, far to low a voltage and cost far more in comparison to a proper high voltage capacitor.

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#100
In reply to #45

Re: High Pulsed Power

01/29/2017 11:26 AM

We could tweak it, buddy to some Kvolts if you like.

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