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Controlled Avalanche

02/07/2017 5:54 PM

I have seen where they trigger avalanches on snow covered mountains using 5 inch artillery shells.

I was thinking why not use sound to do the same thing?

With the right frequency and repetition rate,sound could shake the snow and cause an avalanche just as effectively.

Comments are welcome.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/07/2017 6:04 PM

It would probably cost too much energy...and not be nearly as much fun.

Air is not a terrific medium for sound, I did hear of military weapons that were non-lethal that used sound waves to disperse people. It may work, but unless you can mount it on a helicopter or other aircraft deployment would not be feasible.

Drew K

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/07/2017 8:06 PM

I remember those. The pressure was too low in my opinion, even the vehicle mounted versions. I cannot see this as being a viable solution for avalanche triggering.

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Guru

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#2

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/07/2017 6:14 PM

This problem has been studied (pdf), with the conclusion that shock waves, rather than sound waves, work far better.

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Guru

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/08/2017 8:34 AM

Very good link.Thanks.Also a GA from me.

However,my thought process about this was triggered by reading where N Tesla nearly destroyed a building in a nearby city using resonant ground waves to make the building shake.

I presume he did this by "thumping" the ground,and measuring the return time,and adding a "thump" at just the right time to add to and amplify the next pulse,like a person on a swing adds momentum at the height of each swing to gain height.

I realize after reading the link you provided that it takes a lot of surface energy(on the snow) to affect an avalanche,but a localized shock wave could do it.

If one could get the pulses coordinated at the right frequency,(resonance)would this not work?

I really don't know much about the physics involved,but it seems possible to an old

rednek.

Perhaps a thumper truck (as per Tornado mentioned), with feedback to time the next pulse.

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#4

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/07/2017 9:12 PM

I would suspect that it would be difficult to concentrate as much energy at one point using sound waves as lobbing a shell up there.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/07/2017 11:21 PM

Or if one could get a "thumper truck" close enough.

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Guru

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Controlled avalanche

02/07/2017 11:37 PM

This seem like a part of a marvel movie, that guy with green thingy..

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#8

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/08/2017 10:42 AM

It could work. Just finding the correct frequency (harmonic) which would cause the resonance.

Still would take a hellofa transducer.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/08/2017 3:36 PM

Any of these technologies would be better than the loss of life seen with avalanches.

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#9

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/08/2017 1:10 PM

Having been involved in some avalanche control at a ski area in the Colorado Rockies in earlier years, the other issue that has not been mentioned is control. You do not always want to trigger every bit of avalanche that is possible, but just to clear certain areas that are of concern (usually "in-bounds" or skiable areas). Carefully sized and directed charges make that more possible (although the effects will never be exact). Sound waves would be very difficult to focus and direct, unless maybe you use a "phased array" type of approach where sound is output from a number of locations with the desired target being at the intersection of them. Not practical in the mountains.

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#10

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/08/2017 2:30 PM

A loud enough sound may start an avalanche. The idea of a controlled avalanche is to prevent the snow pack from building up enough so a loud sound could start a slide. Remember, the report from the 5 inch artillery shell is not quiet but the report rarely starts a slide. The localized artillery shell explosive charge starts the slide, and from a safe distance.

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#12

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/09/2017 7:41 AM

The reason they use the howitzers is that they were free surplus from the army after WWII and the ammo and many repair parts are still produced and plentiful.

Not to mention accurate.

Hooker - who, for many hours, studied them from above while slung below Chinooks

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/10/2017 7:57 AM

From all I have read,there has not been a single "Dud" or misfire of the shells,even though they are over 50 years old.

Good engineering and quality control is hard to beat!

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#13

Re: Controlled Avalanche

02/09/2017 11:56 AM

I bet the military has something that will work. see here.

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Andrew Westman (1); Dr. Harry (1); Drew K (1); gutmonarch (1); HiTekRedNek (2); Hooker (1); jack of all trades (1); PeterT (1); redfred (1); Rixter (1); ronc (1); StandardsGuy (1); Tornado (1)

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