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Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 2:20 PM

Hi,

I’m making a training tool/website to help people learn about engineering, but I’ve got a bit of a problem. I was working on 3D model of an engine and labelling parts etc. but there is one piece whose function I do not known (see below image).

I’ve asked around but no one I know seems to know what it is. The second below image is a close-up.

This is what I do know:

• Lit is belt driven so it turns (possibly centrifugal filter?).

• The pulley is small so it turns fast.

• There seems to be a connection to the lube oil sump.

• There are jubilee clips so it is easy to remove (which again points to some sort of filter).

So, does anyone know what it is? Item ‘2’ on the below image is for a lube oil filter (probably, informed guess), so why would they have a secondary filter on the suction side of the lube oil system (assuming that it is a filter and it is related to the lube oil system)?

The model can be found at the link below, it is interactive so you can zoom in to get a better look etc.

http://www.3d-knowledge.com/full-screen-four-stroke-combustion-engine.html

Any help is welcomed!!!

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#1

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 2:34 PM

It is an archery target.

Sheesh, just look at all of the arrows sticking out of it.

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#2

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 3:15 PM

That looks like a 6 cylinder turbo diesel engine, but what brand? Who is the manufacturer?

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#3

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 3:35 PM

According to the 3d model, that is an external oil pump. The pipe that comes out and goes down to the oil pan is labeled "lubrication oil suction pipe" #23.

I have not seen an oil pump like this before but that is what it appears to be.

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#4

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 3:45 PM

Looks like some kind of centrifugal oil filter driven by the engine, but I've never seen one like it.

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#5

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 3:50 PM

On second thought, I think I know exactly what this is, although it has been awhile since I have seen one. The belt drives the pulley on the worbler shaft, which bypasses the knuten valve, this turns the piecost which drives the henway.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 4:28 PM

Looking at the oil pan, there is no depression for a wet sump oil pump, the other pipe goes right up into the block, can't really see an oil pump up there. I think this is a dry sump oil pump, large enough to hold some extra oil.

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#46
In reply to #5

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 2:55 PM

What's a henway?

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 3:03 PM

Between 0.286 and 0.429 stone.

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 3:12 PM

Please send my 8 hens.

How many for a brick, good condition, unused,new?

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#51
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 5:20 PM

I had a food scale measured in stones.

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#52
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 5:31 PM

Especially used for weighing out rocky mountain oysters?

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#74
In reply to #52

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 9:43 AM

Only if someone has heuvonitis. I.E. - dragging the sack syndrome.

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#53
In reply to #51

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 5:48 PM

1 stone = 14 pounds

1 fortnight = 14 days

1 day = 24 hours

1 case = 24 beers (coincidence, I think not!)

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#54
In reply to #53

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 6:13 PM

I meant foot scale. But what the hell. The scale measured in stones.

We have regional restaurant that has Rocky Mountain Oysters on the menu. It's in a historic hotel made of logs that been there for 150 years.

Than there's another place that serves oyster omelets. Interesting piece of gastronomy.

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#73
In reply to #54

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 9:42 AM

At least you were not using that as a kitchen scale cooking for two!!!

A stone originated how?

The United Kingdom's imperial system adopted the wool stone of 14 pounds in 1835. (Wikipedia)

I am just glad it was not based on a volume of stone wool. What could be more ambiguous than that as a system of measure. The early stone weight was anywhere from 5-40 "local" pounds. Sheesh, those Brits, could not even define the pound through that tiny kingdom.

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#55
In reply to #53

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 6:14 PM

Tell me the speed of light using English measurements.

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#80
In reply to #55

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 2:17 PM

1.8 trillion furlongs per fortnight. We calculated it several times and it always came out the same. Even while stoned.

And it came out exactly.

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#81
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 2:42 PM

Just be careful for if you do this for a fortnight, be furlong, you will be too weak and your trillions will not fit. Did you measure twice and cut once as I think the 1.8 may be too tall to fit the calculated area. Just a helpful hand, as I have a spare one.

Can you offer the coordinates for Exactly please as I should like to locate it on Google earth. Thank you.

Glad the English calculation helped you out as the British calculation would have boggled your mind.

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#85
In reply to #80

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/14/2017 9:53 AM

I get 1.799885E12 (nearly exactly). Or 1.803860775E12 (ish). Depends which way the æther's blowing.

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#59
In reply to #53

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 8:27 PM

So without using a converter how many lbs in 1cwt and how many cwt in 1 ton?

As for the speed of light in English measures, that is 1490256 furlongs, per second or 1862820 chains per second........ And that is on a clear day.

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#82
In reply to #53

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 2:51 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5mJeRtjPvY

This may be of interest. A curiosity. Nicola Tesla showed this theory before he died.

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#83
In reply to #82

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/14/2017 8:10 AM

OK, but what can you practically do with that?

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#84
In reply to #83

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/14/2017 9:08 AM

MMM! A curiosity. That was why I specifically stated a 'curiosity.'

Like the curiosity of 3, 4, 5 to obtain a right angle perhaps.

Simple throw it in, for curiosity.

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#86
In reply to #84

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/14/2017 8:41 PM

The demostrated relationships aren't really surprising. Fat to straight forward to have earner 'curious.'

Consider the first example:

Adding the digits in a number and continuing to add digits in the results and checking for the final remaining digit to be 9 is a test for being divisible by 9.

To arrive at the internal angle for any regular polygon, first consider that to complete a circle, 360° turn to the right or left is required. For a regular polygon of N sides will have N discrete turns which form the N vertices. N is a whole number for polygons and each angle that totals to complete a 360° is a supplementary angle to the internal angle.

So 360°/N will be the angle of each turn and the supplement of internal angle

So the internal angle will be 180°- 360°/N

Adding all the angles yields N (180°-360°/N)

Simplifying and dropping units obtains N180-360

Considering (N180-360) mod 9 is simpler rearranged as ((N-2)180) mod 9.

As N is the number of side for a regular polygon, then (N-2) is limited to positive integers.

So ((N-2)180) mod 9 is zero. I.e. the digits of the sum of the internal angle of any regular polygon when repreatedly added together will result in the final digit of 9.

...no 'vortex calculus' of 'alien pre-planning' needed.

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#87
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/15/2017 9:38 AM

would have given you a good answer on that, although we are still off topic.

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#48
In reply to #46

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 3:05 PM

2.5kg.

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#56
In reply to #46

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 6:46 PM

About the same as a rooster.....Duh????

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#6

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 4:13 PM

Greetings Jon Russ, and welcome to CR4

I made your internal link "live" so no one will complain. You can do this yourself by clicking the link icon in the ribbon above the text box.

Question: are you aiming at a particular audience -- high school students, interested amateurs, something else?

Best in Show (this afternoon's moderator)

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#8

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 6:51 PM

It is the alternator.

The ends of the 'oil lines' are colored copper just like the ends of the wires connected to the ignition system equipment on the same side. It does appear to be some confusion in the connections though. Those do look like oil lines running into the block, but why would they enter this thing on multiple places. Someone just got overzealous making connections not knowing what it was.

If you look at the text about the belt, it lists the two things it drives on this engine besides the pulley and tensioner pulley) the water pump and the alternator.

Or its a weird external oil pump..now that I see that other electrical stuff is the starter. Strange motor with two belt tensioner and external oil pump.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 8:34 PM

Off topic? Really?

I was on topic, the entire post. I may have been wrong in my first appraisal, but not off topic in the least.

You (whoever rated the previous 'off topic') are fake comment rating and a failing cr4 member.

.

Redeem yourself. This comment IS off topic. Why not correct your previous rating and apply it to this one.... no need to even disclose who you are.

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#12
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 8:50 PM

This raises an interesting point about revisiting one's prior votes on a topic. On both Amazon Discussions and CR4, you cannot simply cancel a previous vote; you can only change it to the opposite vote.

That is a glitch in both voting systems.

I went back to check if I accidentally gave you an OT, but it wasn't me.

CR4 has a minor issue or two about such matters; Amazon is utterly stinking corrupt.

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#13
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 9:03 PM

I haven't seen Amazon's, but the voting system here is easily one of the weirder ones I've seen? Plus, it seems to be sufficiently abused as to leave considerable room for improvement. Most of the time GAs correspond to truly good answers whereas the OTs seem to be used more to punish someone or to express dislike for them, regardless of whether their comment is truly Off-Topic or not.

I think showing who marked comments GA and OT might go far in making users more honest. It would certainly make OTs less attractive to trolls, who thrive on anonymity.

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#14
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 9:11 PM

Spot on.

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#15
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 9:22 PM

Ironically, my previous comment is off-topic, but someone (you, perhaps?) voted it GA (if so, thanks!). I took the liberty of marking it OT so as not to be guilty of abusing the system lol.

(I'm also marking this comment OT)

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#63
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/11/2017 9:30 AM

And despite your self off-topic rating, your post is once again visible without requiring any additional clicks.

Seems your comment is more 'good' than 'off-topic'.

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#16
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 9:59 PM

There was a time when I would have debated this, "Most of the time GAs correspond to truly good answers whereas the OTs seem to be used more to punish someone or to express dislike for them, regardless of whether their comment is truly Off-Topic or not." with you.

No longer.

We are here at the pleasure of IEEE. Imperfection is a fact of life.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 10:44 PM

Why would you have debated with me before, but not now? Hasn't this forum always existed at the pleasure of those hosting it?

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#20
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 10:57 PM

Times have changed.

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#21
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 11:04 PM

Ah. I gather from the brevity of your comment that there was a time when one was free(-er) to discuss such matters openly.

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#22
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 11:49 PM

It is just that protestations of injury over an OT vote seem trivial.

Such perceived injuries should be directed to Admins, if one feels slighted.

This is just my opinion, which carries 1/number of members in weight.

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#23
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 12:37 AM

Was I protesting? I don't recall that I was. It just seems to me that the OT vote often seems to be used in the manner in which I stated. I have seen many perfectly on-topic posts marked OT for reasons unknown, by persons unknown. That, to me, suggests the vote is not being used for its intended purpose, but used, as I said, to punish or express dislike for someone. Protestations of injury are a separate matter entirely and, as far as I've seen, seldom result from such votes. Occasionally, yes, but not often.

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#31
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 6:17 AM

Not you, #11.

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#64
In reply to #31

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/11/2017 9:54 AM

Oh wait, me? Well take more care to place your replies in the proper place.��

.

No injury here. Just noting the inappropriate use and suggesting to the that they need not live with it....it is not too late to steer themselves back onto the narrow path.

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#24
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 12:49 AM

One of the two main structural problems is that GA and OT are two incommensurable matters.

An answer may be on topic, but plain dead wrong. Happens a lot. So how to vote?
An answer may be off topic, but open up other interesting issues, be humorous, etc. Neither of these scenarios fits the GA/OT options.

A simple thumbs up/down scheme does not work very well, either.

The Amazon question of does this this comment add to the discussion? (or whatever the exact wording is) is similarly ambiguous, but that is small potatoes compared to the grave injustices that often occur in their "moderation."

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#25
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 1:08 AM

They are incommensurate indeed, and that is at the heart of the system's weirdness, a non-sequitur, as it were. "Do you pack your lunch or take the train? Check one, but be aware that once you do, it cannot be undone." Alrighty then.

"An answer may be on topic, but plain dead wrong. Happens a lot.
An answer may be off topic, but open up other interesting issues, be humorous, etc. Neither of these scenarios fits the GA/OT options."

Agreed. They don't. Thumbs-up/down at least doesn't commit one to agreeing that the answer is 'good' or 'off topic,' only that the reader liked or disliked the comment - or the commenter. The thumbs-down would still be troll bait, though.

'... the grave injustices that often occur in their "moderation."'

I've been on other communities where the moderators were the worst perps of the bunch. You wonder how in bog's name they were even picked for the job. I'm no longer a member of any of those communities and good riddance, too. The moderators here seem on top of their game. Quite refreshing, actually.

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#26
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 1:16 AM

Agreed. CR4 is among the best, even though I have had occasional issues. You were probably not here yet during the Ralfcis nonsense a few months ago, in which I lost my spam-killer status. (So that now spam persists quite a bit longer here.)

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#27
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 2:05 AM

I joined in December. It doesn't ring a bell. I shall look it up tomorrow as it's getting a bit late and I badly need my beauty sleep (not that it does any good).

See you tomorrow.

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#29
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 3:07 AM

I'm interested in what you might find first, and will fill you in later as fitting.

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#35
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 10:35 AM

It's arrogant gits like that wot make a 'Block User' button attractive. Once blocked you can't see them and their comments and they can't see you and yours. Enough people blocking them and they have little or no audience before whom to display their wares. For trolls, being summarily ignored is the worst imaginable fate as it starves them of their fuel: attention. They're attention whores.

The git stopped commenting but still lurks. Last visited Feb 3rd.

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#67
In reply to #27

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/11/2017 12:05 PM

I have very little experience with other forums, except a few automotive forums that were filled with profanity and flames, which I left immediately.

The present system is imperfect, as are we.

We each have our own ideas about how to make it better.

Fortunately, we have great mods who will ultimately decide if the time spent to incorporate our requests are worth their effort.

Maybe it just ain't broke enough to need fixin'.

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#40
In reply to #8

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 2:02 PM

I see this as possibly some new kind of oil-cooled alternator, or that the block which is part of "IT" that oil lines are screwed into is only a transfer block to an internal oil pump, or that this is an oil pump external to the sump, and there is a labeled sump.

What keeps from just coming on out with this as an oil pump is, that there are the two unknown stubs on the distal (from front of engine as proximal) end of "IT". If those are electrical in nature, then what say you all?

I don't think it is electrical auxiliary (alternator) because the course material is supposed to be about main parts of the engine, e.g. does not include such things as A/C compressor, etc.

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#9

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 7:01 PM

All the four-stroke combustion engines I've known were perfectly capable of labelling their own parts. This one's a bit undermotivated perhaps? A slow learner?

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#10

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 7:49 PM

It is a lubrication oil pump.

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#17

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 10:11 PM

Looks like a made up thing...I don't see that anything that is driven by the fan belt would be hose clamped to the block....It would have a mounting bracket...So I'm calling it BS....

....either that or it's some sort of oil pump or filter.....

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#18
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Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/09/2017 10:41 PM

What a dry sump system should look like...

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#28
In reply to #18

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 2:42 AM

Hi,

Firstly, thank you all for your responses. Some comments I agree with, particularly concerning having a belt driven pump/filter but only securing using hose clamps, this seems unlikely. The engine is a Mercedes Benz Typ OM 501LA, but I could not find the spare parts manual online or service manual.

I labelled the parts based on experience only, but this part just didnt look right. The final image sent of a dry sump oil pump did look likely, but I was under the impression this was a wet sump engine?

To answer the final question by the moderator, the website is aimed at students or anyone who wants to check or learn about engineering. I started as a ship engineer, then worked on yachts for a while and now spend my time visiting power stations and other heavy industry sites. The website lets me put some of what I learn 'out there' for others to benefit from. Obviously I cannot know everything which is why it helps to input from the forum.

Thanks for the help!

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#38
In reply to #28

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 11:31 AM

If you look carefully at the 3D model you will see the 'hose clamps' are actually proper mounting brackets. I don't see the ports for the alternator connections but they may be missing from the 3d model. Zoom in and rotated the model.

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#39
In reply to #28

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/10/2017 1:46 PM

to be a wet sump it would require and oil reservoir pan. This is obviously an engine that is shoehorned into a compartment that is much shallower than the usual engine configuration and thus needs to have a flat pan dry sum. This may also have an oil filter in it or remote mounted elsewhere in the engine compartment.

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#68
In reply to #39

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/11/2017 12:07 PM

Some higher performance engines have an extra remote oil reservoir for cooling purposes, in this case, it may be for some type of accessory.

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#70
In reply to #68

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/11/2017 12:39 PM

As for as the op question of;

So, does anyone know what it is? Item ‘2’ on the below image is for a lube oil filter (probably, informed guess), so why would they have a secondary filter on the suction side of the lube oil system (assuming that it is a filter and it is related to the lube oil system)?

On the German cars (older Porsche's particularly but the Germans cars use similar parts, the only difference is part numbers), anyways on the earlier Porsche their filtering system is backwards, where the oil is filter after it leaves the engine block. And they have a remote oil reservoir as well as the one in the crankcase. The remote reservoir that is filled, the problem with this, is there are small lubracation ports in the engine, and if any foreign matter gets in the reservoir, say changing oil, before it's filtered, it has to go through the engine. Any foreign material can block this lubrication ports and damage the engine

That may (Assuming) be a secondary filter to fix that problem.

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#77
In reply to #70

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 10:52 AM

Item #2 is clearly labeled as fuel filter, and #3 clearly labeled as lube oil filter, any more questions?

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#79
In reply to #77

Re: Need To Help Four Stroke Combustion Engine Labelling Parts

02/13/2017 11:30 AM

I don’t know why you mentioned the fuel filter.

My point was that it could have a remote oil reservoir, also known as a dry sup.

See schematic and pictorial below.