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Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 3:43 PM

So i recently graduated and started my first job.

Anyone have any tips because i feel like ill be lucky if i survive the first week.

I keep getting asked to do things i never said that i knew how to do and when people find out i dont know how im getting some really awful looks from project managers

I feel as if im being set up for failure. Very little support and very little internal infrastructure for me to rely on. They have me drafting stuff. i never in any line of my resume said i know how to do drafting and i have NEVER used auto cad before. I signed up for an entry level controls job.

I am on a project that the senior guy is leaving the company and everyone keeps looking to me to fill his shoes. (he has a masters and 10+ years of experience)

Not to sure what to do.

Now on to the real reason im posting.

I took a protections class a long time ago but cant remember what a "plug" is in the protections world. I tried to find some research on it but of course searching electrical plug protections just brings up surge strips from home depot.

Can someone direct me towards something that may jog my memory. I am not a power engineer nor would i ever claim to be.

Its going to be a really ruff couple of weeks.

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#1

Re: Anyone have a life preserver i can borrow

02/15/2017 3:51 PM

First, become a controllee, then be patient for your opportunity to become mentored by one of resident controllors...

Get back to us for further instruction once that objective has been met...

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#2

Re: Anyone have a life preserver i can borrow

02/15/2017 3:52 PM

Wow. I have seen plugs in weather boxes and electrical branch connectors for conduit. They can be unscrewed later and another conduit added to a branch.

Protector - what are you protecting?

fire protection class?

Electrical plug protections could be various kinds of covers depending on the phases, volts and ampere rating? Weather rated, indoor rated?

I have no idea, but good luck out there. Appears you are in for a wild ride.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Anyone have a life preserver i can borrow

02/15/2017 3:59 PM

A plug is a type of fuse. They are normally paired with a breaker and need to be sized for appropriate transient currents

Thats about all i can recall

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Anyone have a life preserver i can borrow

02/15/2017 4:34 PM

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but a "plug fuse" is a type that screws in like a light bulb, with the same sort of threads and base dimensions. (Like antique residential fuses in appearance.)

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#21
In reply to #3

Re: Anyone have a life preserver i can borrow

02/16/2017 9:07 AM

Are you sure? A plug can also be a protective insulating formed block to protect the ports in switchgear from dust, foreign objects, that could get inadvertently pushed into a breaker port where the CB bushing would enter and make contact. Normally installed

during transporting or laying up in a storage area.

Or it could be this type of termination on Tfx's and CB's

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#5

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 4:38 PM

If this ain't a plug fuse i don't know what is.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 5:18 PM

Is somebody fusing a neutral there?

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 7:36 PM

I believe that's a spare fuse in there..

I was certain this wasn't what the OP was referring to. I was just trying to thresh out a proper term or description.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 7:52 PM

I agree. The lower fuse looks like it's in fuse-holder clips. The top one doesn't.

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#6

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 4:50 PM

thanks for the attempt

A plug is something very different then what you guys are referring to

It has to do with damage curves of breakers and such

A breaker with a specific size plug in it will behave a certain way and have a certain type of damage curve

If i recall, its an extremely in depth part of protections design

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#7

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 4:52 PM

In the context of "protection":

Some circuit breakers with electronic trips have what's called a "rating plug". The breaker is "dumb" when it comes off the assembly line, it has a maximum current capacity ("frame rating") and a trip mechanism with sensors, but the trip mechanism has no setting. You buy and insert a "rating plug" to enable the protection functions of that breaker based on the range of adjustment you are looking for in that breaker frame. Some people get lazy and just refer to this as the "plug" when the context of discussing circuit breakers has already been established.

Here's another "life saver". Whenever someone asks me what college I attended to learn all of the (often useless) information in my head, I tell them that very little of what I learned in college is what I ended up using every day.

My knowledge came from making one mistake at a time, sometimes two or three times for the same mistake before it sunk in; "Note to self, stop doing it that way!" The trick is to survive those mistakes. Just be honest about it and be prepared to defend your actions to the best of your knowledge and abilities, but only when asked to. Also learn to accept that some people will not like that. The good ones will appreciate your honesty and try to help you learn, the ones that fire you for making an honest mistake out of ignorance or being in over your head, are the ones you don't want to work for anyway.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 5:41 PM

In the context provided, this sounds to me like a winner. Don't know if this really is the answer to the question, but I'm throwing your response a GA anyway.

Especially when you consider the source - that here being some seasoned hands very likely trying to trip up the new kid with something he probably hasn't been able to experience yet.

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#8

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 5:14 PM

If your employer expects you to know everything as a recent graduate (I doubt they do), they are being unrealistic. You don't learn everything in school, you learn how to learn.

Be honest and explain that you need a little time to get up to speed on AutoCad. Find a good tutorial online. Here's one:

http://www.learneasy.info/MDME/MEMmods/MEM30031A/getting_started/getting_started_files/Acad_tutes/ACT01_getting_started_basics.pdf

As long as you are working to get up to speed, I would expect they would cut you some slack.

Nearly everybody starts a job not knowing what they are doing, and the feeling is not pleasant. Do your best with whatever tasks they give you, ask questions, and learn as much as you can. That's all that you can do and all that should be expected.

I hope this helps.

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#11

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 5:56 PM

When's the senior guy leaving? I hope not too soon, and I hope he's a friendly guy. If you have time, grovel a bit, fetch and run for him and be his best buddy, but learn as much as you possibly can from him before he goes.

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#12

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 5:59 PM

Welcome to the real world where reality ain't anything like what they taught you and told you it would be like in school.

Unfortunately I can relate to your situation. I have been in it myself more than once.

The two things I see as being most likely are either,

The company you signed on with is experiencing growing/transitional pains due to a knowledgeable senior employee leaving and it's now very painfully clear to management they have no backup plan to deal with it so it's getting dumped on you in a weak attempt to fill the void that's about to open up or,

It has become apparent that someone in upper levels has bitten off far more than they can chew through their own lies and BS and they need a scapegoat to pin the blame for their unavoidable failure on in order to keep their job and that person is you.

Either way never be afraid to point out when you are in over your head and need help nor be afraid to point out you have been tossed into a position that is way beyond what your education and 'as hired for' job description said you would be doing.

Do your best but keep as much of whatever happens documented just in case you need to cover your butt later and rat out someone above you who had intended to set you up to take his fall right from the get go. (That happens a lot to young new guys because they, experienced management, can largely get away with it as a way to hide their own mistakes.)

That, and if you have access to any software or resources you can use or copy at your discretion that could ever be of future use to you to defend or use yourself for personal whatever's take what you can! You never know what future work you may find for yourself where having that stuff for personal use will pay off for any losses you took on while employed anywhere.

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#13

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 6:12 PM

My first day on my first job out of school? My boss told me to draft a schematic of a circuit containing 52 TTL ICs. I was also asked to design its power supply.

My second day on the job I went to his office to ask him a question about his rough sketch, took a sip of my scalding-hot tea, it went down the wrong pipe, and I violently coughed it out - all over his glasses, his papers, and his white shirt. He gingerly took off his glasses and wiped off the droplets of tea, then asked "What was your question?" Probably one of the most humiliating moments of my life.

The job itself was much like your situation - Trial-by-Fire. I wanted to quit that job at first, but I stayed, made a ton of mistakes, and learnt a sh!tload. Even better, my boss and I ended up becoming best of friends and we're still in touch after all these years. To this day he insists he has no recollection of that event on my second day. A prince of a fellow.

Give it your best. You'll be glad you did.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 6:55 PM

Thank you very much guys

The description of a plug above was exactly what i was trying to remember

thanks for the words of wisdom. Glad to know everyone has been here a time or 2.

I wont have any trouble making a bunch of mistakes that part will be easy haha

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 7:06 PM

Thanks for saying "Thanks." Not many who come here do. :(

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#19
In reply to #14

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 9:02 AM

Good luck. I hope CR4 will be a good resource for you, and also hope you will return the favor in time.

That plug is one of those things that get aliased in use from its proper name. Lesson #2 - call it what it is (when you can).

Another thing: Do your job in the most unattached and professional way you can, be friendly, but keep your personal emotions out of the job when possible. No one will ever really ask you to do more than your best, since that is illogical.

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#18
In reply to #13

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/15/2017 8:24 PM

I started one job as a junior engineer for a controls mfr. (K-M), it was my favorite job (before this one). I sat at a desk, my supervisor gave me a project, usually consisting of a written description of operation and some sketches on a napkin made by our salesman. I worked on the project until it was complete, including testing and acceptance by the customer. Only THEN was I given a new project. That lasted 6 months, then my supervisor, who had been there 10+ years, broke into the bosses office, found out they were paying me more than him (they recruited me away from somewhere else), and threatened to quit. Then the other engineer that worked with me under him, also there for 10+ years, did the same. They both got their raises, but one was made the shop supervisor for it, the other was moved into sales. I became the LONE engineer, doing the job that had been done by 3 of us... No time to complete anything before 3 or 4 more projects were dumped on me. It didn't get better for 30+ years, even though I changed jobs many times. That was a trial by fire for sure. Learned a lot though (which means, I made a lot of mistakes)...

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 9:04 AM

The old adage: "If you don't make any mistakes, or break anything, you are not trying hard enough." comes to mind.

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#45
In reply to #18

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/20/2017 9:51 PM

Uplifting story...sounds a little like mine....

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#22

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 9:42 AM

ill certainly let you guys know how i make out

thanks for the cheering up

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 10:07 AM

Make Out? Why do I need to know you made out? Dose she know about you?

Correction as I know 'Mericans have trouble when you leave for over seas.

Participants and colleagues, I shall keep you informed of progress and the final outcome to my dilemma.

Now does that not read and sound far better than 'making out'. If you want to get really happy, go make out!

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#24

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 10:34 AM

The mouth and the tongue has the power between life and death. Those who love to use it shall eat its fruit.

Whatever you say in your mouth and believe it in your heart will certainly come true.

Be careful what you say. What you fear becomes your god. Are they worth as gods? Certainly not!

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 10:47 AM

What is it you fear? My Bible tells me "fear not, for I am with you."

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:01 AM

Mere text brings death.

"All manner of sins can be forgiven. But the blasphemy of the word and the Holy Spirit can not be forgiven."

Say, He is King and Lord, say it if you can.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:08 AM

<sigh>

Lately the religious backbiting around here has become more tiresome than a production meeting where everyone is in a different union.

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:55 AM

<sigh>2 I agree. I just cannot let a taunt go by.

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#29
In reply to #26

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:54 AM

He is King and Lord. Now are you happy. Dog forgive your condescension.

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#31
In reply to #29

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:55 AM

So, what's His name?

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 12:14 PM

Brian! Definitely Brian, I saw the movie on his life.

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#35
In reply to #31

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 12:20 PM

Last time I checked, and it has been the same all through time Jesus alone is Lord.

Any questions? If so, take them to Helln Waite.

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#39
In reply to #35

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 10:54 PM

If he is your Lord, whats with the foul mouth? The devil knew Jesus is Lord and are trembling but you're not.

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#41
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Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/17/2017 2:20 PM

Tremble at you who hide in the shadows? Really? You are a joke, or maybe half a joke.

I have conquered giants, walked the length of continents, moved a 750 # drum of sulfuric acid singlehandedly from one end of a power plant to the other, over an unpaved surface. So, no I am not afraid of you. Jesus is my friend, and he knows all about my problems, which by the way, are none of your business. Mind your own business, and you won't be minding mine.

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#28

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:19 AM

Great stories. The last company i worked for had me doing OT+++.. I ran jobs all over from automation to security of commercial and ultra high end residential. I got the goofiest old truck and trainees. When i graduated night school it went unnoticed. When they paired me with a smooth talking fellow that was a former cable co employee. He knew jack about our work while i had started there with years of experience and ability. i was ok with it until i learned he was making $5 an hour more than I. I gave my notice (refused the offer for a raise) and started my own company. In time they went out of business because of nepotism and shortsightedness.

Follow the good advice your getting and you'll do great.

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#32
In reply to #28

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 11:56 AM

I can see you followed your own wandering star. Good.

I used to install C-band satellites. I liked it but the market went out from under me.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 12:10 PM

Sorry, I cannot let it go past. I was a baker, didn't have sufficient dough for the lean times so ended up cooking the books.

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#36
In reply to #32

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 12:24 PM

Ha.. I used to uninstall C-band satellites.

nothing personal

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#37

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 12:54 PM

This wasn't mentioned anywhere in the specific conversation above, but in general I would suggest that you develop your reference library. It may take some investment, but a lot is free online. I'm sure the audience here can recommend a variety of resources in addition to those I am going to list:

The IEEE "Color" series of standards ("Red Book" Std 141-1993 or if there's newer version Electric Power Distribution; "Brown Book" Std 399-1997 Power Systems Analysis; "Buff Book" Protection & Coordination; "Green Book," etc.) - These will cost you some, but worth it.

Download the free "Design Guide for Rural Substations" https://www.rd.usda.gov/files/UEP_Bulletin_1724E-300.pdf

Download GE/Multilin's free "Art & Science of Protective Relaying" http://www.gegridsolutions.com/multilin/notes/artsci/index.htm

Anixter's "Wire & Cable Technical Information Handbook" https://www.anixter.com/en_us/resources/literature/technical-references/wire-and-cable-technical-information-handbook.html

ABB's "Hard to Find Info About Distribution Systems" https://library.e.abb.com/public/91ad3a29a50978bf85256c550053db0d/Hard.To.Find.6th.pdf

These will get you started, and you should also collect all the manufacturers' catalogs and application guides that you can.

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#38

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/16/2017 5:34 PM

Raeph gave a very good plug on CB plugs...

As an employer - I appreciated honesty - I don't know - can you direct me to the information and I will learn.

I fired those that gave me BS and either told me they knew when they didn't , or the most dangerous was the person who thought they knew and did not.

I can handle honest mistakes.

Do not compromise safety.

Be willing to learn on your own time - "9 to 5" employees who will not increase their knowledge on their own time are freeloading.

If you are honest, continue to learn on your own time, work diligently while at work, and do not "back talk" - you will probably hang in there.

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#40

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/17/2017 1:06 PM

Thank you Gentlemen

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#42

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/19/2017 9:38 AM

It was one of my jobs at Boeing Aerospace to introduce new engineers to the Boeing world.

It shocked my as to the lack of abilities that most graduates have, just out of college.

My suggestion is to ASK the people there , get opinions, methods and such. The greatest wealth of information comes from the people on the floor doing the job.

If you want to know how a broom works do not ask the salesman of the broom or the guy that designed the broom. You ask the guy using the broom.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/20/2017 10:46 AM

I agree, but before anything else, be keen and observant and common sense dictates, if you got an IQ of 130 it would be easy. Never ask a grumpy guy nonsensical stuff or you would be directed to google.

Use your head and eyes most often, hands and ears, but just a little with the mouth. It'll save you a lot of trouble.

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#44
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Re: Anyone Have a Life Preserver I Can Borrow

02/20/2017 11:44 AM

"If you want to know how a broom works do not ask the salesman of the broom or the guy that designed the broom. You ask the guy using the broom."

Yet how many of use have worked some place where it was painfully obvious not one single person in the company knew how to properly use the metaphorical broom to begin with?

Or if you do show you know how to use said metaphorical broom it put you on someones shitlist for having made them look bad for their not knowing something that should have been painfully obvious common knowledge in that work environment?

Been there done both more than once.

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