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Pic of the Day

02/19/2017 5:24 PM

there isn't much left, they have almost no control and a big storm is knocking on the door

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#1

Re: pic of the day

02/19/2017 6:08 PM

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#8
In reply to #1

Re: pic of the day

02/20/2017 10:35 AM

Needs a massive path but very few heavy equipment are working. Seem not to be a top priority, perhaps.

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#17
In reply to #1

Re: pic of the day

02/21/2017 6:37 AM

Too early in the morning. In the first picture I wondered why the funny looking helicopter had an alien's leg sticking out of it.

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#29
In reply to #1

Re: pic of the day

02/22/2017 2:59 AM

Awesome pictures! Thanks for sharing!

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#2

Re: pic of the day

02/19/2017 6:15 PM
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: pic of the day

02/19/2017 6:34 PM
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#5
In reply to #3

Re: pic of the day

02/19/2017 9:20 PM

Wow, a dam cam!

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: pic of the day

02/19/2017 6:38 PM

Incorrectly described drivel.

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#15
In reply to #2

Re: pic of the day

02/21/2017 1:26 AM

And you place credence in this guy?

I know it is difficult to find unbiased media, but doomerdoug is certainly NOT unbiased.

Your post #1 of this series is very misleading. Although it is true that they can't control what the water does once it reaches the damaged portion of the spillway, They do have a lot of control over how much water goes into that spillway.

They were able to lower the level of the lake by over fifty feet, by controlling the flow into that main spillway.

Here's the data (from http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/resapp/resDetailOrig.action?resid=ORO, current 2/20/17 PM

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: pic of the day

02/21/2017 2:17 AM

There appear to be two persons on here who give credence to Doug. I wonder who the other one is.

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#6

Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 9:18 AM

I've been wondering what the Peoples' Soviet of Mexifornia is going to do about the dam after they've seceded.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 9:46 AM

all hail Jefferson!

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#9
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Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 10:46 AM

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 10:57 AM

wrong jefferson

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#30
In reply to #9

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 3:06 AM

The state of Jefferson comprises of No Cal and Southern Oregon. There are still a group up there who would like to create a new state.

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#23
In reply to #6

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 12:53 PM

Probably ask the United States for foreign aid.

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#11

Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 6:14 PM

Here is one of the best articles I've seen on this:

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-ln-oroville-spillway-damage-20170220-story.html

There are an item or two that I could question, but the article avoids gross inaccuracies, finger-pointing, and political posturing; unlike lots of internet crap.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 11:34 PM

It seems to me the whole problem stems from the speed and force of the water at that speed....The spillway seems much too narrow, it should be as wide as the emergency spillway is....

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Pic of the Day

02/20/2017 11:50 PM

Why? Depth compensates for width. (Too bad we haven't been given very many dimensions of these structures.)

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#21
In reply to #13

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 12:15 PM

The depth is the problem. They could decrease the impact of the forces at work here by spreading them out more. Clearly the force of the quantity of water they are releasing in the spillway is difficult to calculate and contain reliably with current methods. If they had six spillways instead of one, they could reduce the stresses maximus and have failures minimus. Per simplici structura pendet Vivacitas.

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#24
In reply to #11

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 1:54 PM

I managed to dodge the ads enough to read down to the point where they said the dead weight of the water was 5 tons per square foot in the spillway. The density of water is around 62.4 pounds per cubic foot, and 5 tons is 10,000 pounds. 10,000/62.4 = 160, so to exert that dead weight, the water would have to be 160 feet deep at the point of measurement. The spillway is a little over 160 feet wide; its depth is FAR less.

The point where the break occurred may well be 160 feet lower than the top of the spillway, so the pressure due to the dead weight of the water at that level on the lake side of the spillway would be 5 tons per square foot, or a little more, since the water on the lake side of the gates is higher than the top of the spillway, which is at the bottom of the gates.

This greatly enlarged portion of the widely shown photo with pickup trucks on the spillway in 2013 gives an idea of the height of the north wall:

That north wall can't be much over 20 feet high, if that. I reviewed quite a few photos showing the water flowing down that spillway, and I never found a single one that showed the water higher than about 1/4 of the way up that wall. Thus I'd say the depth of water flowing down the high slope portion of the spillway where the break occurred was no more than 7 feet. The dead weight pressure under 7 feet of water is about 440 pounds per square foot.

440 is roughly 1/23 of 10,000. I'd call that a gross inaccuracy!

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 3:31 PM

That was one of the two items I implied. The other was calling it from the outset an accident waiting to happen. Fifty years is a pretty long wait.

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#33
In reply to #25

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 3:21 AM

I got a laugh out of that when I read it.

Another one is the engineer who made that statement. If he really believed it, then he had plenty of time to get it fixed.

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 8:39 PM

Could they be estimating the impact of the water on the spillway? They might be doing this because they think the general public wouldn't understand impact?

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 8:45 PM

If so, they shouldn't have used the term "dead weight" or something similar, as they did.

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#34
In reply to #27

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 3:24 AM

He used the term "dead weight of the water". Dead weight = weight of the water.

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#31
In reply to #24

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 3:17 AM

I read the same thing and knew there was an error in someone's calculation. I thought of it in another way. A gallon of water is 8 lbs. 10,000 lbs of water is 1,250 gallons. The spillway isn't deep enough to hold 1,250 gallons of water in a square foot, thus a gross miscalculation.

It does make the story seem more exciting! The average person reading it would think - my goodness, 5 tons of dead weight in a square foot! That's why the spillway broke!

There were also some more errors in the story. I'll post it in a minute.

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#32
In reply to #11

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 3:19 AM

The third paragraph begins: "Weakness in the aged concrete ..."

In reality, as concrete gets older, it gets stronger.

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#14

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 12:07 AM

I took a look at a few of the excellent photo's but was thoroughly disappointed by the blatent commercialisation of a pending (or possible) tragedy.

Flogging adds at this time is ridiculous.

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#18

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 9:15 AM

Raging fires, Santa Anna winds, earthquakes, mudslides, coastal cliffs falling into the ocean, 5 years of drought followed by floods, poorly built dams, over regulation.....why does anyone want to live in California????????????

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 9:26 AM

we love traffic and bottle blondes

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#28
In reply to #18

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 9:46 PM

Probably for the same reasons that so many people leave Pennsylvania's ice cold winters and steamy hot summers to retire and relax in sunny California.

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#36
In reply to #28

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 8:10 AM

You are going the wrong direction - due south is the way here. My son just moved to Florida last year. Nearly everyday he runs into someone living there who recognizes his t-shirts with local area business ads or local area events on them. He has re-connected with 2 other people who used to work where he did up here, and that was just a small time car dealership. Apparently the steamy hot summers you mention is not an issue. That is more a southern Pa thing - if it gets to 80 degrees here in the "western highlands" of Pa, we celebrate.

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#35
In reply to #18

Re: Pic of the Day

02/22/2017 3:30 AM

Even though we're taxed so heavily, it's a great place to do business. Add to this perfect (or near) weather, dry summers, few mosquitos, cool cars, pretty gals, tons of things to do, beautiful beaches, sunshine, convertibles, beautiful mountains, health consciousness (in many of us), hiking, bike riding (mtn and road), beautiful homes, great landscaping, etc!

When I lived in Chicago, I though there was no place better (than Chicago). After spending a couple weeks in Ventura County, I realized that I belong in CA!

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#20

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 10:16 AM

Seems to me that too many in Kommie Kalifornia have been smoking weed. Just my opinion.

Just saying....

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#22

Re: Pic of the Day

02/21/2017 12:46 PM

This looks like an ideal contract for Granite, Ball & Groves.

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