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Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 3:15 AM

Maybe someone can point me in a direction for this one.

We use a table top model AM-10 pneumatic terminal crimping machine. It takes most of the standard wire terminal dies, like used in the Ideal Crimp Master. Amazon and Ebay has many different die sets listed...except the one that I need.

I am looking for a die set that will crimp the 'Dupont' terminals in 2.54 and 3.96 mm pitch. These terminals are very common and the Molex KK series is typical, as are others.

Many hand crimpers for these terminals are available, and most work well except, that their removable dies will not fit into the crimping machine. It's a close fit but there are alignment problems. Other hand crimper dies fit perfectly and it seems these hand crimper dies are just a bit different, and for no logical reason.

Unfortunately, all the importers of this low cost machine offer little support, except to direct you to their website which all list the same die sets.

I am aware of the automated wire preparation machines used in industry and the great support their manufacturers supply, but, our needs do not warrant that expense.

If anyone has been down this road, I would appreciate a nudge in the right direction.

Thanks,

Len

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#1

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 8:46 AM

We used to make replacement dies using "wire cut" machine, so if you have a hand tool set, then local toolmaker should be able to replicate face profile on backing to fit your machine.

Alternately, try looking up "SUBA" Engineering. They have a presence in some countries and were reasonable on that sort of device.

There may be other suppliers out there. Not saying they are the best or that others are less good. This suggestion of SUBA is only based on my involvement with them some years ago for the range of products matched our facility needs.

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#2

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 10:37 AM

Yes, that is what you should do: Approach a tool-maker machinist, with what you need, and see if he can make you the dies you need.

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#3

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 11:35 AM

We'll all miss Wire Crimping.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 11:42 AM

really? I won't if they come up a better system.

I hate 40 gauge wire when attempting to connect it to anything. I even bought a hand-crimper and the little female terminals that slide into Molex and other plastic clips.

Larger wire with those flat yellow handled crimpers sold at places like Harbor (sunkern) Freight, usually last until you attach the spade lug to something, then wire supposedly crimped connection slides out.

My buddy out in the country has some real crimpers with a profile that stabs into the crimped portion of the ferrule. I have not seen a wire slide out of one of those connections yet.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 11:59 AM

Sorry, feeble attempt at humor...

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 1:13 PM

"It is a good day to die" -Either a Klingon proverb or Aussie ebullience, depending on how you look at it (and pronounce it).

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 1:32 PM

And yet another winner, ridiculous play on words, winner, winner, chick dinner.

"Wire Crimping Dies" - Rixter: "I will miss Wire Crimping..."

Me: "When are the services?"

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 1:50 PM

"Wire crimping dies" could also refer to dies on which one performs wire-crimping, especially in Queensland. Let's see, we've got Mon-die, Toos-die, Wens-die, Thurs-die and Beer-die-1, -2, and -3; crimps performed on the latter three dies usually returned for rework. Job security.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 2:17 PM

Once again, brilliant! I expect nothing less.

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#16
In reply to #11

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/29/2017 9:53 AM

Beer die is every die mate!

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/29/2017 12:33 PM

Indeed they are! I forgot to mention the three beer dies are each 56 hours long.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 7:38 PM

I thought if you had more than one, you had wire crimping dice.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 8:57 PM

'Dice' is something different. It's a verb and what you do with bad crimps on any given die of the week; you dice 'em (chuck 'em in the bin). Usually it happens most often on beer dies.

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#20
In reply to #9

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/30/2017 12:40 AM

I didn't know wire crimping was sick!

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

05/01/2017 9:48 AM

Some rare condition known as the "wires crimps". Usually a mineral deficiency of one kind or another.

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#6

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 12:06 PM

I'm starting to not like this whole wire crimping idea. We went to a connectorized harness to save time and costs....Bah Humbug! There are more hidden costs than ever anticipated. I can't go back either since I have a stock of new PCB's, redesigned with pin headers!

I probably will keep hunting down the die set or as a fix, try again to adapt one from a hand crimper since a custom die would probably be outrageously expensive.What is so infuriating is that most of the die sets from China are under $5 delivered, and they are pretty well made

Oddly, at the beginning, I considered building a pneumatic system to operate standard hand crimpers and I tossed it aside as being too much work.....!

It's Just more futzing than it deserves.

Thanks all!

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#7
In reply to #6

Wire Crimping Thread Dies

04/28/2017 12:21 PM

^^

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#14

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/28/2017 11:06 PM

"except, that their removable dies will not fit into the crimping machine"

No worries, buy the removable dies, adapt to your machine.

Grind / shim etc etc.

Do two sets -

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#15

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/29/2017 3:39 AM
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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/29/2017 5:56 PM

Thanks, but none of their listed dies are similar to what is needed.

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

05/01/2017 9:47 AM

I dunno, but if you ever find more than one set that works, say two, you will have

...wait for it...Pair a dice?

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#19

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/29/2017 5:57 PM

Thanks, but none of those listed dies are similar.

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#21

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

04/30/2017 6:36 AM

While I sympathise with your dilema, there is one underlying issue.

The companies that develop those connectors spend a lot of R&D time and effort to assure a quality outcome. they make terminals and tools to assure reliable and predicatable product quality over the product life. You indicated that you want the quality of outcome and the cost of the dies is the cost of that quality.

If die cost is too high for you, but you want/need to use those terminations, then MOLEX and most other terminals suppliers will offer a unit cost rental of die sets where you pay per termination that is done. When the dies wear, they replace with new ones, or provide refurbishment.

Compare that single cost to what it will cost for internal rework, a customer recall or an enforced replacement program where the customers would insist on the corret dies being used anyway.

Please do it right the first time!

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#24
In reply to #21

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

05/01/2017 11:04 AM

Yes and no.

A quality crimp requires quality tooling, agreed, but there are many quality hand crimp tools, made by other than the terminal manufacturer. I contacted Molex and they have a $$$ system if I needed hundreds of crimps per hour. They also offer hand crimpers, but at a much higher price than anything else available.

Many reputable companies, like Ideal, T&B, Iwiss make good hand crimpers, and some of their dies are a drop in fit for the AM-10 machine. This machine, just opens and closes the die set with pneumatic assistance, and it was designed to fill the gap between a few, and a thousand crimps. It works well with all the additional dies I have found, from many sources except this one elusive set.

I reached out on this forum because, as common as these connectors are, I expected someone has to have encountered this issue before, and solved it by finding the correct die set. Custom machining is out of the question, and I have fitted a hand crimper die set to the machine, but only with limited success.

If you are familiar with any replaceable dies, they all have a ridge, or a shoulder that lands on the crimper,frame. The screw only retains the die and does not support the die during crimping, the ridge or shoulder does.

The dies that have the shoulder are a perfect fit, but the needed dies all have a small ridge, no shoulder. They are also narrower than the dies that have a wide shoulder and easily slip through the frame. I first created a saddle of thin sheet metal for both halves of the sides of the dies to compensate for the thinner width but that made he ridge even smaller. The next saddle had a thin flange so the ridge has better landing on the frame. Now, all that works, but the die sits a bit too high, and when the AM-10 closes, its jaws are not parallel and the die is misaligned.

The ridge cannot be ground off or there will be no support for the die, other than the retaining screw, and the die will twist out of alignment. If I grind the AM-10 jaws, the other dies that do fit will be misaligned, or not completely close.

So, in all it is not the actual crimping portion that is unsuitable, it is how the die is mounted into the machine jaws.

The answer obviously is a die, with the same crimping tooling, but with a bit wider body and a shoulder. I really believe it is out there....someplace. What is most frustrating is the total lack of response from most companies that sell the machine, or the dies.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Wire Crimping Dies

05/04/2017 7:17 AM

If you have found a hand crimper that satisfies your needs, then maybe for this rather special individual connector, it would be adequate to mount the hand crimper (total) in a pneumatic assisted fixture of its own. Use this until your volume or quality requirements justifies the unit cost.

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#26

Re: Wire Crimping Dies (Closure)

05/22/2017 3:30 AM

Woo Hoo.. Problem soved.

A very competent Chinese named gal, named Charlotte, at Iwiss, had the information, and shipped the dies. $30 for two die sets including China richshaw delivery. They are exactly the right ones..End of search

Illegitimi non carborundum

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Wire Crimping Dies (Closure)

05/22/2017 10:48 AM

Beans be cool!

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