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Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 7:33 PM

Hi All,

I am wondering about the feasibility of wireless recharging of the batteries of electric automobiles while driving in city traffic or on the highways; is the technology currently practical?

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#1

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 8:16 PM

If an electric car were parked in the garage, I can see that wireless charging could be done. It would be more convenient but less efficient than directly connecting charging cables.

I cannot see how it could be cost-effective to replace the existing roads with roads with embedded charging points. The cars would not be close to the charging points for enough time to transfer a significant amount of energy.

IMHO, no.

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#2

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 8:23 PM

Didn't you hear about the new five minutes for 300 miles charge?

As for the feasibility of wirelessly​ charging cars. As they are parked over the charger? Maybe. On the fly? Maybe not. That's 'currently' not feasible.

Tesla might argue this, but he didn't realize his dream either.

Lasers​.. maybe with lasers..

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 10:29 PM

Just a 'back-of-the-envelope' calculation here. Bear with me:

A Tesla S consumes about 290 WH/mile. Assuming 10% of the charging energy is wasted as heat, that comes out to 290/0.90 = 322 WH/mile of charging energy.

300 miles/charge x 322 WH/mile = 96,667 WH/charge

96,667 WH/charge x 3600 Joules/WH = 348,000,000 Joules/charge

5 minutes * 60sec/min = 300 seconds

348,000,000 Joules/300 seconds = 1,160,000 Joules/second

1 Watt = 1 Joule/second

1.16 million watts charging power for five minutes per car

10% wasted as heat: 116,000 watts for five minutes per car.

This is roughly the heat put out by 34 household electric clothes dryers running for five minutes.

How are these batteries not exploding?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 10:54 PM

None of these guys did the calculations.. so no fire

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 11:18 PM

I'd want to see some hard numbers from these folks. Temperature rise, charging efficiency, charging current and voltage, etc. They show a car at a charging station, but no charging station cranks out a million watts. Tesla's latest splits 145 kW between two cars, 120 kW max per car (meaning the other only gets 25 kW meanwhile), and these charging stations are ten times the average commercial capacity. There is also the safety factor of untrained consumers dealing with a megawatt cable. This ad sounds great until you look closer. Lots of things they're not saying.

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#9
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 11:22 PM

If this is cutting edge technology, why haven't they brought to the market then?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 11:32 PM

StoreDot demo'd this tech a few days ago in Berlin. Onstage no less, but neither does it say how much energy was delivered into what size battery. They're getting lots of airplay, but no hard numbers anywhere. Their batteries may in fact charge in the claimed times, but what of the power levels required to achieve this? Let's say the charging voltage is 1000 volts. To transfer enough charge in five minutes for 300 miles, you're talking about a current in excess of a thousand amps.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 11:51 PM

Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm just reporting on the flavor of the month. I was wondering how the heckum they would deliver all that juice at once myself.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 12:13 AM

No no, please don't get that impression. That's not it at all. Not at all, mate. No, these people are making rather extraordinary (not impossible, just extraordinary) claims and when I see such things, I tend to reach for the back of an envelope. Bad habit.

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 7:21 AM

As I see it, the heat from the recharging process would be expended by the recharging station, not by the batteries. The waste heat lost by the Tesla occurs over the course of a few hours while driving the 300 miles. But when the charge is put back directly into the batteries it goes via the cable directly from the charging station to the batteries, not via the wheels, drive trains, etc.

I plug in my laptop when the battery starts to get low. But it's the inverter that I've noticed that gets warm, not the laptop, during recharge. The laptop gets warm when I use it.

How how the Tesla batteries gets probably depends on the internal battery resistance during the recharge cycle.

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#20
In reply to #17

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 10:06 AM

Batteries heat up when you charge them, due to their internal resistance. I'm speaking only of this heat and only that generated during the charging process. The charging station will also heat up as will the charging cable itself. I'm not speaking of that heat, but of the battery's temperature rise. These batteries are dense with little surface area to dissipate heat. Fast charging rates can generate more heat in a short time than the battery can safely dissipate in that time. It will reach peak temperature before the car is driven away.

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#34
In reply to #17

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:24 PM

I find that batteries do get warmer when charging.

From what I can tell with a little searching, discharge heat and charging heat in a battery are about the same and both are well correlated with amperage.

Sounds like some supplemental heat removal might be in order for very rapid charging.

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#36
In reply to #7

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:36 PM

Five minutes plugged in is better than 20 miles of driving over the something-something. It does not "induce" to want to make a purchase. I prefer the smell of diesel smoke in the morning, that or burned cordite.

"It's the thought of the smell of the black powder smoke, and the stand in the street at the turn of a joke." - -Johnny Cash, The Last Gunfighter Ballad.

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#38
In reply to #36

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:47 PM

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#56
In reply to #7

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 9:02 AM

I wonder what happens when you short the terminals with the amount of energy in it. It could be melting the chasis or turning the car into a fire cracker?

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 9:19 AM

Gutmonarch automotive propulsion battery testing protocol:

(1) detach leads from motor(s)

(2) place hands in saturated salt water

(3) grab the positive lead with left hand

(4) grab the ground (negative) lead with right hand

(5) write down your experiences if you still can

(6) while remaining conscious, blink your eyes rapidly for nearby observers to count how long you remain alive.

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#19
In reply to #6

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 8:54 AM

How are the occupants of the car not exploding?

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#23
In reply to #6

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 11:55 AM

What about the substantial increase in surface area due to using newer/smaller materials? I would imagine, engineered properly, this would allow for the increased dissipation of heat.

Naturally found in a spherical shape, NTU Singapore developed a simple method to turn titanium dioxide particles into tiny nanotubes that are a thousand times thinner than the diameter of a human hair.

This nanostructure is what helps to speed up the chemical reactions taking place in the new battery, allowing for superfast charging.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141013090449.htm

Also with new materials being used as coolants (v just h2o), I don't think the OP's idea is too far off.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 12:11 PM

Oh goody, now we can irradiate the passengers at even higher levels of RF. They better have a great Faraday cage for the posteriors of all seated within.

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#49
In reply to #24

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:51 PM

I could always use a tHiRd eyE

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#29
In reply to #23

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:05 PM

Battery heat generation and dissipation is only one side of the equation. Fast charging is great, but at upwards of a megawatt per car? Multiply that by the number cars in an average-sized city and you begin to see the scope of the generation and distribution problem. Large cities? How many cars per square mile in Los Angeles, Chicago or New York? Now imagine tearing up all those roads to add charging grids.

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#41
In reply to #29

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 2:40 PM

I would speculate that cars would be staged for charging, just as currently happens at a gasoline filling station.

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#43
In reply to #41

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 2:47 PM

That would be much more practical, but the OP is asking about charging moving vehicles:

"... wireless recharging of the batteries of electric automobiles while driving in city traffic or on the highways ..."

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#68
In reply to #29

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/19/2017 7:56 PM

Given the speed of automobiles during the massive traffic jams in those cities as well as the potential to install charging antennae on existing light standards, charging times may not be impractical.

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#75
In reply to #68

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/22/2017 9:23 AM

As if cell phones were not irradiating our brains with high enough power, you want to add wireless charging antennae, at THAT power level? That would literally be insane, because everyone subjected to that power level, it would literally blow their mind!

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#52
In reply to #23

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 4:16 PM

It would seem that any additional surface area utilized for heat dissipation would not be available to speed the chemical reaction. Problems with the volume of the batteries could also come into play as attempts to get reasonable coolant flow to each nanotube spread things out.

I'm curious about these coolants with operating properties allowing significantly more heat removal than h2o, can you expound?

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#61
In reply to #52

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 10:59 PM

It took me a bit but found the article I recall reading a while back. Not sure where development is today but they've been researching such alternatives for a while now. The one discussed in this article is called "CryoSolplus":

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120712111713.htm

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#62
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 11:43 PM

Until more R&D is disclosed, I'll pass on it. Thank You

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#63
In reply to #61

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/18/2017 11:15 AM

Nice idea in the article to use parafin for heat of fusion.

Still, it is pretty difficult to beat H2O for heat transfer properties, especially when you include the use of phase change. Parafin has a heat of fusion of around 250 J/g. Water on the other hand has a heat of fusion a full 1/3 greater at about 333 J/g.

If you can't find a suitable fluid in which to stabilize an emulsion of water drops, heat of vaporization provides even better properties. For water at a pressure reduced to boil in the 20 to 30 C range, the heat of vaporization is around 2500 J/g.

Seems like low pressure heat pipes with good old H2O as the heat transfer fluid could be tough to beat.

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#3

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 8:30 PM

I think maybe better in parking lots and spaces....

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#21
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 10:16 AM

So, in winter, if I park my 2001 Silverado Pickup Truck in that spot, will my butt be warm the next time I enter and sit down, or will the entire thing be a smoking pile of cinder when I get back?

Seeing a sign like that makes me more than just a little trepidacious toward lining up in that space.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 11:54 AM

No, but your pacemaker may explode!

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#28
In reply to #21

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 12:55 PM

Bog help the poor bugger wearing braces.

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#4

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 8:31 PM

Not while driving, the infrastructure costs are.....prohibitive to say the least for little benefit.

Real-world trials have been done with busses in a number of countries, but again these have the recharging points in certain spots or bus stops when the bus has stopped, not on the road while it is moving.

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#14
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 2:10 AM

The city of St Petersburg, Florida (Pinellas County's PSTA) has been working on installing charging points in order to extend route mileage for the few ebuses they have. They have been determined to be cost effective only on a few routes with certain characteristics. (high passenger, long distance express routes with stops at major transfer points, where the charging points would be most effective for 5-10 minute stops) The commission wanted to buy and/or lease more but realized they could buy five regular new buses for the price of one reconditioned ebus out of Texas I think. ebuses can't be a one size fits all when dealing with generated revenues and taxpayer funded subsidies in the name of "saving the planet ". Can it be done? Certainly. Should it be done? We'll need to vote on that.

To extend the wide use of changing points for vehicles would require sufficient need to justify the high infrastructure costs, installation, billing systems, maintenance, etc. Can it be done? Certainly. Should it be done? You need to start attending your city council meetings or at least start a petition. That's how it gets done.

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#5

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/15/2017 9:45 PM

Lookup the "Inverse-Square Law" as applies for radiation (RF/pwr) transmission.

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:27 AM

Such would probably be implemented as near-field, resonant inductive couplings rather than broadcast RF, and triggered by the presence of a suitably equipped vehicle.

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#30
In reply to #13

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:14 PM

This is more what I was thinking of in my OP.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:22 PM

"... in my OP"

You and Dr. Harry are one and the same person? I see you're both from Brecksville, OH. Why do you have two accounts? Don't they frown on this?

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#33
In reply to #13

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:24 PM

Just think of all the ozone pollution from the high voltage RF going through those couplings! Also, it gives a new meaning to scoot your seat (forward) going over those!

"Hey Millie, where did you get your hair done?" "Oh Jane, it is just from the frizzy lane on the Interstate."

If Bog wanted us to charge our batteries by driving over inductive couplings, he would have had coils installed before time. Why not just use charging pellets? Or drive over a dip with D cells in it, pull a vacuum, and suck the charge out of them, then blow them off to the side?

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#35
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:30 PM

Not high voltage, high current/low voltage, and relatively low frequency in the hundreds of kHz. Electrically 'small' (size vs wavelength) antennas are very inefficient RF radiators and so little energy will be radiated into free space. The bulk of the energy by far will be coupled to the tuned receiving coil on the underside of the car.

Speaking of undersides of cars, they'll probably have to be made of composites, as strong AC fields will induce a buttload of eddy currents in regular metal undersides, heating them. These transmitters need to distinguish between a regular vehicle and one equipped for wireless charging, and transmit only when a suitably-equipped vehicle is within range (a metre or less).

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#37
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:42 PM

"... Speaking of undersides of cars, they'll probably have to be made of composites, ..."

.

..and composites of the non-carbon fiber and non-graphene flavors at that.

.

So, does that mean we will be seeing plastic wheels/rims, a la 1980's BMX wheels? And will we be able to put them in a freezer to fix any dents?

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#39
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 2:01 PM

If they use the right geometry to limit the path of eddy currents they can use conductive parts, but it's a difficult problem. A simple example is the use of laminations in power-transformer cores. Of course in these the field's net orientation isn't changing with respect to the core; it's fixed. The flux lines reverse direction at the AC frequency but they're cutting the core at the same angle. In a moving vehicle it's not so simple. They can do it, but they'll have to design it carefully. For instance, if they use carbon fibres, the fibres cannot make a closed loop. As long as the fibres are electrically isolated from each other (allowing no current travel cross-wise through the fibres) and do not form closed loops, they can use them. Embedding them a non-conductive matrix, for example, similar to the matrix used to embed the particles in powdered-iron transformer cores.

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#42
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 2:45 PM

Using electrically isolated fibers could be setting up a deadly trap. Say a small piece of metal is flung up from the road into the composite establishing a contact which creates a loop. A large current through a small contact could be enough to ignite the composite....which is probably in close proximity to batteries....

A fire like that might not allow much time between discovery and safe egress.

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#44
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:01 PM

Think about this, however: the plane of the loop thus formed would have to be largely parallel to the transmitting coil for sufficient coupling to occur, and of sufficient area to couple enough energy to significantly heat the contact. Both conditions are highly unlikely to occur with a small piece of metal lodged in the composite. Far more likely would be a small loop formed in a vertical plane, resulting in minimal coupling with the AC field, no?

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#45
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:10 PM

How well vertically aligned could an accitental loop reliably be? Even a small portion of the million watts could be bad.

The other question would be how unlikely is sufficiently unlikely, with say, 1,000,000 cars on the road driving 15,000 miles a year?

Also, itdoesn't have to be a metal object forming a shorted loop. It could be small cracks/delamination and de-icing road salts in solution.

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#46
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:19 PM

"How well vertically aligned vertically could an accitental loop reliably be? Even a small portion of the million watts could be bad."

Pretty reliably vertical to strike the composite with enough force to embed itself. Too shallow an angle and it's more likely to glance off.

"The other question would be how unlikely is sufficiently unlikely, with say, 1,000,000 cars on the road driving 15,000 miles a year?"

For more unlikely, I should think, than someone among those 1,000,000 drivers totalling their car in an accident whilst driving one of those 15,000 miles?

Also consider that composites can be made with a self-extinguishing matrix that foams when burned. Meanwhile the heated carbon fibres, when exposed to air, will oxidise (producing CO and CO2), rendering the cavities left behind non-conductive.

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#47
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:35 PM

I think the entire idea is moot, unless you can re-fuel (re-charge) from a moving "tanker" in auto-pilot, then where's the worry? Nothing could possibly go wrong.

Think of having a charging lane, where contact is made on "shoes" of the undercarriage. Isn't that how it is done in automated warehouses?

The charging conductors would only move up on signal received, and there would be sections where there is no conductor at all, so cars can shove off from the charging lane.

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#50
In reply to #47

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:56 PM

With fast-charge capability there's no need for charging-whilst-driving. Most vehicles are parked most of the time, either at work or at home, and for long trips there are service stations. Just like we have now. It just doesn't make any sense to charge whilst driving.

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#54
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 4:59 PM

There is the real answer. The answer to the original question posed is : NO.

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#48
In reply to #46

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:51 PM

Yeah, but as mentioned before, it could also just be salt water in delaminations. No need for perfect angle strikes. Given a multitude of choices the effectively largest loop will be seen.

Yeah, you would need to limit construction to special foaming fire resistant matrices, because it doesn't matter if the carbon fiber burns away to a non-conductive path; it isn't the continuing current that is concerning, it is the continuing fire.

So much easier to just avoid highly conductive fibers. Let's see Kevlar, that'll do nicely.

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#51
In reply to #48

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 4:11 PM

Yep, Kevlar would be a great choice. Undercarriage panels are not structural members. They have to be tough but not necessarily strong. Just so long as they're non-conductive - however implemented - carbon-fibre/graphene reinforced panels are not necessary. Wireless charging would be great, but as most cars are parked most of the time, they can be charged at rates much lower than a megawatt per car. Car parks, parking garages, metered street parking, home garages. For high charge rates, use a cable at a suitably-equipped service station. People stop and fill their tanks now and nobody's b**ching for in-flight refueling.

Charging whilst moving and all the infrastructure changes that would entail? What would be the cost/benefit ratio? Enormous. Maybe we could get Mexico to build it.

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#53
In reply to #51

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 4:23 PM

Enormous Yuuuuge!

Otherwise, I agree completely.

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#55
In reply to #51

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 5:00 PM

ROFLMAO!!! Good one.

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#15

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:03 AM

There are now buses that pick up charge while standing at bus stops via an overhead pantograph.

Then, public transportation technology​ always been further ahead than private. Why no-one has thought of the Scalextric Solution is beyond me.

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#16

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 3:58 AM

Maybe this issue is being looked at in the wrong way. If one were to come up with a transport system that deletes the need for personal-self-drive, then there are rather more possible solutions than there are without such a deletion.

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#18

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 8:52 AM

because, everyone would get really hot (if not just under the collar). There is already enough radiation all around to cook a pig, the only thing missing is the apple.

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#25
In reply to #18

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 12:28 PM

Feeling a little fried buddy....is that what's ailin' ya'..?

Empathy from the Melon-collie...

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#26
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 12:53 PM

That's Hellmutt the Melon-Collie.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 12:53 PM

Love the Mellon-Collie...nice pooch.

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#31
In reply to #25

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 1:18 PM

No matter what side of the argument you are on, that is just doggone cute! Poor dogie, having to wear that melon helmet just for someone's petty urge for a cute snapshot.

This must one of the early football playing dogies though, I see no chinstrap, or face guard. Was his team the Buffalo Chips?

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#40
In reply to #31

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/16/2017 2:38 PM

Carnegie-Melon Uni's mascot.

Don't be fooled by that woebegone expression. It means "You'd better get this ridiculous thing off my head this very minute or your brand-new Rockports are dog-chow!"

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#58

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 12:11 PM

The answer for this question may make for Sunday afternoon reading from some long ago lost edition of popular science magazine, but waking from that slumber to present day reality the current government can't pull is head out of its arse to even find the funding to fix crumbling infrastructure.

There may be hope yet for such an endeavor on a privately owned limited access road way funded by an as yet unnamed multi-millionaire willing to shell out the duckets required for a feasibility study with the ultimate intention of parleying that lay down into either another public bond measure, tax or investment scheme for the mentally challenged.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 12:23 PM

No, tell us how you really feel?

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#65
In reply to #58

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/18/2017 10:48 PM

...the solar roadway coloring book is available for you to download if it will make you feel better.

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#70
In reply to #65

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/20/2017 6:27 PM

I'd love to,,umm can I borrow your box of Crayola's when your done coloring yours ?

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/20/2017 9:34 PM

heh heh..

..You can't borrow a consumable

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#72
In reply to #71

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/21/2017 2:20 AM

That would depend on fungibility.... and most consumables are highly fungible.

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#73
In reply to #72

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/21/2017 9:42 AM

Well in that case it's a definite 'no'.

When's the last time you were able to pick up a single mint condition​ 'cobalt blue'? This ain't a drill index ya know.

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#74
In reply to #73

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/21/2017 9:10 PM

Haven't ever noted it. Mint condition isn't my thing..... a little too square stemmed, for my tastes. I prefer something closers to nutmegged condition or maybe sarsaparillized condition.

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#76
In reply to #73

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/22/2017 10:01 AM

It may be "fungible" to SE, but JE, don't like funguses. That is about as redneck as I can 'splain it.

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#77
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Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/22/2017 8:51 PM

funguses fungina

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#60

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/17/2017 1:45 PM

It is being done, not sure how far developed it is from this point.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23603751

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#64

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/18/2017 10:47 PM

From P.V. Joseph, Dip Electronic Engineering: The power required by Electric Vehicles is high and cannot be supplied by present wireless recharging techniques. It would be easier to supply the power using cables like the Electric Trains and Trams use today.

Regards.

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#66

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/19/2017 1:03 AM

AFAIK this is already installed on one demonstration project on a South Korean road.

The bottleneck isnt technical, its financial: who pays?

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/19/2017 6:58 AM

"who pays?"

Well, everyone, of course.

The monetary payment specific to each charge needn't cause any slowdown/bottleneck. Getting sufficiently intimate to transfer 1,000,000 joules per second, will certainly be close enough to transmit kilobytes of data necessary to securely verify membership in something like Speedpass.

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#69

Re: Wireless Power for Electric Cars

05/20/2017 12:39 AM

This?

just because it can be done doesn't men it must be done..

here's a whopping 100 meters? cost ?

...pretty timely

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