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Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/23/2017 1:43 PM

How can we calculate the weight of a fermenter and what should be thickness of MS plates which can sustain the pressure of fluid

Diameter 6.800 m

Height 10 m

Cylindrical shape

Thanks and regards

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#1

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/23/2017 2:13 PM

Suggestion: spell-out abbreviations in your post. Don't assume your readers know what an abbreviation means. What does 'MS' stand for and what is an 'MS plate'?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/23/2017 2:46 PM

I didn't know that MicroSoft™ made plates. Are they bone china or just simple ceramics?

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/23/2017 2:50 PM

It doesn't matter what they're made of. If Microsoft made them they're broken.

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#18
In reply to #2

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/25/2017 12:29 PM

Plates made in china? Teacups, maybe. Plates, though?

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/25/2017 12:43 PM

Yes, plates.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/23/2017 2:49 PM

Mild steel plate

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#5

Re: Tank design (fermenter)

05/23/2017 2:57 PM

This (pdf) may be helpful. There may be other considerations besides pressure. Is it a free-standing tank and is it located in a seismically-active area of the world, such as Japan or New Zealand? (anywhere on the Pacific rim, really) We've no idea where you're located and that might be an important consideration given its size.

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#6

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/23/2017 9:41 PM

Check out the 'Standards' and 'Reference' Libraries at the top of the page....

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#7

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 12:37 AM

You certainly don't want to use mild steel to fabricate a fermenting tank! If these are simply plates that support a tank made of some other material, then we'd need to know the weight of the actual tank.

"...which can sustain the pressure of fluid". It's not at all clear whether you are referring to the pressure due only to the weight of the fluid, or to the pressure of the weight combined with internal pressure. To ask it another way: Is this an open fermenting tank (as for wine or ethanol production), or a closed and pressurized tank (as for champagne or beer)?

Any pressurized tank will bulge due to the pressure, and should not be mounted sitting on flat plates.

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#8
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 1:41 AM

GA

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#9

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 1:44 AM

..."Very large fermenter is often constructed from mild steel lined with glass or plastic, in order to reduce the cost."...

..."The thickness of the construction material will increase with scale. At 300,000 to 400,000 dm3 capacity, 7-mm plate may be used for the side of the vessel and 10-mm plate for the top and bottom, which should be hemispherical to withstand pressure."...

http://pharmacologyonline.silae.it/files/newsletter/2010/vol1/27.Iagati.pdf

http://www.engineersedge.com/pressure_vessels_menu.shtml

http://www.bobby-strain-group.com/Budget/calcCylinder.aspx

http://nptel.ac.in/courses/102103016/36

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#11
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 2:51 AM

Something's weird there; if anything, hemispherical heads can usually be thinner than cylindrical shells.

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#20
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/25/2017 7:12 PM

Well these tanks for fermenting are usually taller than fat, so the bottom would have the support structure and the top would have the stirrer mount and all the access points...and usually low pressure demands....this is just an example...

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#21
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/25/2017 7:31 PM

It depends what they are fermenting. For red wine, the (open top) fermenting tanks I've worked with were considerably fatter than tall, to facilitate pushing the skins back down into the must over a wide area. Some were round, some were rectangular...

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#22
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/25/2017 10:43 PM

These are typical tanks for brewing beer....

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#14
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 3:23 PM

Surface area of a cylinder....

2 π r2 + 2 π r h

Surface area of a dome....

http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/qq/database/qq.09.09/h/charlie1.html

http://www.aaamath.com/exp79x10.htm

Weight of metals...

https://www.twmetals.com/calculators.html

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#16
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Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/25/2017 2:42 AM
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#10

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 2:15 AM

Three obvious things
1. Fermenter - what is the fail safe factor... Fermenter = gaseous by product trapped in the tank if the vents fail
2. Base plate to wall joint configuration; and
3. Specific gravity of contents
You can design a tank with staged thickness - done that, i.e 25mm first/base ring, 15 mm next one and so on

Of course the foundation design is separate and critical, but if that is correct you work on a deflection that those calcs yield.
The top - without gas load has virtually bugger all lateral load (comparatively)
If you're stuck message back and I'll see how to help.

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#12

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 10:36 AM

I have worked many years designing and installing tanks and vessels and I can say you have not provided enough data to give you any idea which way to go forward.

1. If it is open to atmosphere and temperature up to 200°F, you can use API 650

code to design and you may use Annex "F" in same code to contain some

pressure.

2. If the pressure is above 2.5 psig, you may use API 620 code.

3. Above pressure higher than allowed in above code you have to use ASME code to design a tank which will normally called vessel.

4. There is lot more consider about the wind load, earthquake load, corrosion, piping loads and thermal load in designing tanks/vessels.

5. Foundation in of the case above is unique design and civil/structure person need to look at it.

6. if you are just curious, it is OK but do not design this equipment by yourself, get professional help.

7. There are several organizations they make data sheet available. Get all the data you need first.

8.When you call this equipment a "Fermenter", I think in process it is going to pressure which need to be contain.

GOOD LUCK....

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#13

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 10:53 AM

have you tried other resources?...

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#15

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/24/2017 4:13 PM

You could always weigh another, similar one.

You could ask fermenter manufacturers how much theirs weigh.

You could look it up on the GA drawing of similar vessels.

You don't put fermenting materials in mild steel vessels.

You can work out how thick things are needing to be by carrying out a force balance on a theoretical plane sliced down the centre of the vessel. You need your calculations verified by your insurance company otherwise they might decline to insure your vessel for burst/collapse indemnity insurance.

I did this sort of thing in O-level Physics at school so I'm certain that a Mechanical Engineering syllabus would cover it. Didn't yours?

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#17

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/25/2017 12:28 PM

Start at the beginning with the basic questions that any Chemical Engineer is trained to assess:

  • What is inside it?
  • What is its volume?
  • What are the reaction kinetics - exothermic or endothermic and how much over what period of time?
  • What is its temperature range?
  • What is its pressure range?
  • What sort of pressure relief arrangements are needed?
  • What sort of agitation does it have?
  • What space constraints are there?
  • What utility services need to be attached to it - temperatures, pressures, flow-rates?
  • What sort, size and number of nozzles need to be attached to it?

Etc.

Most of this information goes onto a document called the Vessel Datasheet. If in doubt, engage a qualified Chemical Engineer.

Once these data are to hand, a specialist Vessel Designer needs to look at the datasheet and conceive a vessel according to the selected insurance-compatible structural code; generally these pieces of equipment are not homebrew in nature and an outside company needs to be contracted to build an insurance-compliant vessel that fits the specification. At that point, all the weight information will be on the "approved for construction" general arrangement drawing following the Client's instructions and Purchase Order protocols.

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#23
In reply to #17

Re: Tank Design (Fermenter)

05/26/2017 11:58 AM

GA for that.

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