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Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/30/2017 11:22 AM

A cyclist turned over at 15 miles/hr. If the speed of the cycle is doubled then the chance of overturning is?

ans is quadrupled but how?

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#1

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 11:47 AM

Define "turned over".

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#38
In reply to #1

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

06/06/2017 2:27 PM

He did not say turned over, he said over-turned. For all we know OP is talking about spinning out. This is a non-starter of a thread. Dead upon arrival.

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#2

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 12:01 PM

<...ans is quadrupled but how?...> Nonsense. If the chance of turning over at 15mph were 100%, then the chance of overturning at twice the speed cannot be any more than that.

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#37
In reply to #2

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

06/06/2017 2:26 PM

It is if he flipped twice - 200%! ROFLMAO

In other news, if the probability were related to the gyroscopic stability factor plotted against the klutz factor, then there would be approximately 25% the likelihood at twice the speed, and the "ans" still is pure bugjuice.

Holding butthead factor constant, and doubling the klutz factor, at constant speed results in a mere doubling of the tip over rate, unless the klutz factor (tendency in % tilts /mile riden) Thus if the klutz factor is 100%/mile, then going 2 miles does not clearly help. Put the bike up, and sit down.

However, now one must factor in the road surface slippage factor against the klutz factor as a power series where P= (BH X K%)^RSSF , so now we see that gravel on the shoulders is a bad idea for bike paths. But I neglected to include a de-rating of this effect for tire gauge. P= (BH x K%)^RSSF/TG that is my final answer. TG = 1 is for the narrowest English (or French) racer bike tire. TG=10 Hog tire.

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#3

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 12:45 PM

The question is meaningless when framed in terms of chance.

Let's look at this a different way: when would a bicycle overturn? In a turn?

Turning radius increases as the square of speed. When it's in a turn, in order to keep from skidding the side force F = m·v2/r must be less than or equal to the force from tyre friction. This force is μ·m·g, where

m = mass of rider and bike

v = velocity

r = radius of turn

g = acceleration due to gravity

and

μ = coefficient of friction between the tyres and the road.

Setting them equal tells us the minimum turning radius for a given velocity:

m·v2/r = μ·m·g

v2/r = μ·g

r = v2/μ·g

Clearly if you double your speed your turning radius has to quadruple or your bike will slide out from under you. It has nothing to do with chance.

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#40
In reply to #3

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

06/06/2017 5:05 PM

Nice! I just love it when classical physics kicks into a tight turn!

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#4

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 1:04 PM
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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 2:23 PM

GA

Q23

How on earth did you find that? The actual question makes as little sense as the OPs.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 4:06 PM

I searched the question....

The question is probably referring to the equation for kinetic energy ½mv², where the kinetic energy increases at one half the mass times the velocity squared...though the question makes little sense as worded...If you combine that with

..."an object moving in a circle is experiencing an acceleration. Even if moving around the perimeter of the circle with a constant speed, there is still a change in velocity and subsequently an acceleration. This acceleration is directed towards the center of the circle. And in accord with Newton's second law of motion, an object which experiences an acceleration must also be experiencing a net force. The direction of the net force is in the same direction as the acceleration. So for an object moving in a circle, there must be an inward force acting upon it in order to cause its inward acceleration. This is sometimes referred to as the centripetal force requirement. "...

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/Lesson-1/The-Centripetal-Force-Requirement

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 4:15 PM

The sideways force, not the kinetic energy. They're similar in form. In a turn, the sideways force experienced by the bike is F = m·v2/r, where r is the turn radius. When this force exceeds the opposing force of tyre friction, ie, Ffric = μ·g·m, the bike will skid.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 4:31 PM

...yes but when will it turn over? haha

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 4:44 PM

I'm banking on it.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 4:54 PM

Clever, but baaaaaad!

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#13
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Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 5:09 PM

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#26
In reply to #10

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/31/2017 9:44 AM

...When the biker loses control.

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#6

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 2:25 PM

Since he already turned over at 15 mph (100% chance), no way will he make it at 30 mph! 100%

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Turning effect on bicycle

05/30/2017 4:30 PM

Quite, although there is around a 50% chance that the rider is female...

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#14

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/30/2017 11:44 PM

42

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#39
In reply to #14

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/06/2017 4:07 PM

Three pounds of flax.

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#15

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 12:16 AM

>Wikipedia has a nice article on this subject<, including the math associated with it. I've had one too many beers to do calculations for you. So, read it and plug in your own numbers

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#16

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 12:22 AM

Train A, traveling 70 miles per hour (mph), leaves Westford heading toward Eastford, 260 miles away. At the same time Train B, traveling 60 mph, leaves Eastford heading toward Westford. When do the two trains meet? How far from each city do they meet?

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#17
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 4:05 AM

If they are run by the UKs Southern Rail they will never meet, they will be stopped by engineering works or strikes.

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#23
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 8:13 AM

Unless on the same track - and then they could meet.

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#35
In reply to #23

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/04/2017 9:32 AM

A "cornfield meet".

Indeed. Modern signalling systems are designed to prevent these from happening, though the odd one still gets through.

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#29
In reply to #17

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 1:32 PM

Now that was funny!! GA!

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#24
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 8:35 AM

A variation on the theme - a man leaving a train to walk slowly home 1 mile away at 2 mph is met by his dog that hears the whistle and leaves home at the same as the man starts walking. The dog runs at 8 mph.

On meeting him, the dog immediately turns round and runs back home. Realising his master is not with him, immediately turns and runs back to meet him. This exercise is repeated until the man gets home.

Considering the distance they meet is reducing all the time, what is the total distance ran by the dog.

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#30
In reply to #24

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 1:41 PM

That one is actually easier than the one posed by Mikerho.

The guy takes 30 minutes to walk home. Meanwhile the dog is running at 8 mph the whole time.

0.5 h * 8 mph = 4 miles. That's how far the dog runs.

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#36
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/06/2017 9:50 AM

Well spotted!

The temptation is to jump in and calculate the individual, incremental, ever-decreasing distances and add them up. Alternatively, the dog runs four times the distance that the man walks - which gives the same answer.

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#42
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/19/2017 4:21 AM

I heard a story that the question was put to an eminent mathematician. He thought for a few moments then gave the correct answer. The questioner said "Ha, scientists and engineers do it the easy way, mathematicians are said to do it by summing an infinite series" "That is how I did it" said the great man.

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#34
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 4:07 PM

If that dog were smart, he'd only have to travel 1.6 miles and get to spend 24 extra minutes with his master.

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#43
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/19/2017 9:37 AM

No, if the doggie were smart, he would be sitting on the porch in the shade, it has been hotter than H, E, double hockey sticks here!

When it is too hot outside for the dogs to drink out of the water bowl by the tree (in the shade), and they will only drink the cool water in the house, it is simply too hot.

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#44
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/20/2017 2:13 PM

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#32
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 3:18 PM

They are approaching each other at 130 mph (=60 +70) so they take 2 hours to cover the 260 miles; 140 miles from Westford and 120 miles from Eastford.

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#41
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

06/06/2017 5:08 PM

I don't know, but I want to watch the collision from a fire, I meant afar.

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#18

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 6:41 AM

or

?

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#19

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 7:27 AM

30mph is a bit fast for most cyclists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikeability

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#20
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 7:31 AM

Not everyone would agree!!!

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 8:06 AM

Foul! That is not a human-powered machine.

Bloody ridiculous, though.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 8:09 AM

I also noticed he's not turning any corners.

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#28
In reply to #20

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 1:04 PM

Wired says he took 4.8 seconds to reach that speed, but they also say that he reached that speed (207 mph or 333 km/h or 92.5 m/s) in 250 metres which, if his acceleration were uniform, would take him 5.4 sec, and so his peak acceleration must have been quite a bit above two gees. Assuming Gissy + bike + motors weighs 100 kg, the combined thrust from those three motors comes out to around 2000 Newtons (~450 lbs-force or 150 per). Probably more because we don't know when his motors shut down but it was before the 250 m mark.

He's trying for 400 km/h in his next attempt. He'd better put a back on that seat to help him hang on!

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 3:13 PM

"He'd better put a back on that seat"

And wear some brown trousers.

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#33
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Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 4:04 PM

As my uncle would say, "My arsehole would have that seat in a f.....g death grip!"

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#25

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 9:22 AM

As a full time cyclist and part time cycle re-builder/repairer, I am on a cycle for at least an hour every day. From many years experience I can tell you that the speed, despite the effects of the wheels turning, has nothing to do with over turning. What is under/in front of the tires determines that. If you over turn it is from lack of traction perpendicular to the forward motion of the bike, or an object in front of the front tire that the wheel/tire cannot roll over. The last, called an "endo" generally gets much worse the higher the speed. (ask my permanently separated shoulder about that)

If you are referring to balancing, as I understand it, (I get emails/You Tube blurbs regularly concerning cycling interests and lose track of all I have seen) the effects of the spinning wheel (gyroscopic) has never been completely verified as the reason for a cyclist remaining upright, and in fact I can't recall the site, but have seen a cycling specific site that presents an experiment that seems to disprove this as the sole force that keeps a cycle upright.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Turning Effect on Bicycle

05/31/2017 10:41 AM

Okay - I missed one. you also overturn when the a**hole next to you in a sprint decides to headbutt you. This also has little to do with speed , but is definitely at maximum speed.

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