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High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 10:48 AM

I’ll try to be brief. In short my next door neighbor installed a bird repellant sound system on their home. It’s a very high constant pitch. It seems as if children and young adults can only hear it. It literally hurts their ears. We’ve asked them to turn it off and they will not. When the township got involved they simply came over with a decibel meter and the sound would not register. Is there anything that can be done to get this noise cancelled out? It literally and physically hurts people’s ears and continues to hurt for a period of time after leaving the affected area. NOT TO MENTION it prevents us from utilizing our outside.

Thanks in advance for your time and efforts.

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#1

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 10:58 AM

DO you know the satisfaction of learning to play the tuba.

In all seriousness, without it escalating you need to show your neighbors that their actions are impeding on you right to privacy.

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#60
In reply to #1

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 3:38 PM

"...play the tuba." Ha! As in PW's post {"Oompah band"}, I myself had once-upon-a-time adopted THAT mind-set.

That sentiment got escalated to "the highest level" ((briefly)) by a popular ad campaign:

Being a bit too old for that sorta 'nonsense', nowadays ... my son now has the "7-channel-collection", spearheaded by the "flagship" front / flanking Klipschorns.

Official YouTube // Unofficial YouTube

[[ the owl idea, down below {as somebody else mentioned} WOULD eventually be "caught-onto", by the birds. BUT ... what fun it would be to have a "pet" that would do the job, and always return to it's perch! Other than Orlando, FL, I've only had ONE other "close encounter" {in 60+ years} with such magnificent birds; during a brief stay at Dalhousie Castle...]]

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#2

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:03 AM
  • Recruit an Oompah band?
  • Move home?
  • Install a high intensity light that shines in the neighbour's bedroom at night?
  • Render it inoperative using suitable subterfuge?
  • Etc.
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:24 AM

Sounds like another episode of Murder Next Door about to erupt.

I would just walk out in the back yard and click-clack the old Benneli every night/evening when I hear the bird repeller, and also while they are in backyard.

There is another series" "Hate thy neighbor". also on ID channel you could watch for inspiration.

What sort of crappy Decibel meter cannot pick up that frequency if you can hear it?

Buy yourself a good meter from Amazon, or Ebay, or elsewhere, and record the readings and frequency range (if it does that), then obtain a good lawyer/barrister/etc and take them to court. If you sue the pants off them for physical pain, suffering, irreparable harm, punitive damage, etc., they might just get the hint or move. These people are clearly absolute losers, so do be careful.

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:43 AM

If you have a smartphone, there are apps available that pick up sounds and display a spectrum. If you can screen capture the spectrum, you have some concrete evidence.

http://www.channelpronetwork.com/article/best_audio_spectrum_analysis_apps_for_ios_and_android1

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#38
In reply to #8

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 3:00 AM

<...smartphone...> What's one of those?

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#43
In reply to #38

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 7:13 AM

Its a device to replace the lack of intelligence to the typical smart phone user.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 7:43 AM

Ah! thanks for that.

Those emit irritating high-pitched noises all the time too.

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 7:46 AM

Also rumored to give cancer to the brain... jury's still out if that's a good thing.

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#46
In reply to #45

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 7:59 AM

Correlates with #43⇑!

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#61
In reply to #43

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 10:01 PM

OT, but a good answer.

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#54
In reply to #3

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 11:07 AM

dB meters typically use a weighted scale, giving preference to certain frequencies and filtering out others. The ultrasonic used by the bird repeller is in a wavelength filtered out by some sound level meters.

A solution might be to get a higher frequency tone generator that will set up a beat frequency in the audible range. Then every time they turn it on, they will get the annoying beat frequency and think their repeller is broken. The nice feature is that the council dB meter won't pick up yours either, just the combination of the two.

The other solution is to take up shooting sports, go to rock concerts and listen to earbuds at high volume. In a few years you won't be able to hear the repeller either.

I imagine stray dogs shun the neighborhood and local dogs hang out in the back of closets. Animal cruelty angle?

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#67
In reply to #54

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 10:28 AM

The beat frequency idea is a great answer. Good thinking.

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#4

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:27 AM

A crate of eggs?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:33 AM

Satisfying at the time,... yes,

But not very wise.

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#6

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:37 AM

I've never tried one, but you might try a phone app

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#7

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:37 AM

You have to measure the frequency of the sound accurately....then you can build an active noise cancellation device....

..." A noise-cancellation speaker emits a sound wave with the same amplitude but with inverted phase (also known as antiphase) to the original sound. The waves combine to form a new wave, in a process called interference, and effectively cancel each other out – an effect which is called destructive interference."...

http://www.wavtones.com/functiongenerator.php

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/bouncing-back-or-blocking-high-frequency-sound-outdoors.409326/

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:24 PM

The trouble is the wave length of these frequencies is less than 1 inch so any speaker trying to cancel the sound will only be effective around the surface of the cone. Everywhere else it will just produce interference patterns.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:44 PM

..."The hearing range of birds is most sensitive between 1 kHz and 4 kHz, but their full range is roughly similar to human hearing, with higher or lower limits depending on the bird species"...

..."The commonly stated range of human hearing is 20 Hz to 20 kHz"...

..."Humans are most sensitive to (i.e. able to discern at lowest intensity) frequencies between 2,000 and 5,000 Hz"...(2-5 khz)

A 5 khz wavelength would be 196,800 ft....

http://www.onlineconversion.com/frequency_wavelength.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range

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#19
In reply to #13

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 1:25 PM

Your first link is for converting E-M wave frequency to wavelength and uses speed of light, not speed of sound.

wavelength of 5 kHz is about 0.25 ft (3"). Still kind of hard to cancel effectively.

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 2:50 PM

Maybe something like this....

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#27
In reply to #22

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:18 PM

Now we're talkin'!

Every time the neighbor's bird repellant speaker goes off, or is heard, simply come on the loudspeaker, and say "HEY NEIGHBOR, I smell burning rubber, and I have no idea what that screaming sound is."

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#48
In reply to #22

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 9:13 AM

Sonalerts

This piezo device could be the source?

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#26
In reply to #13

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:11 PM

The speed of sound at sea level is 343 metres/second, not 2.998e+8 metres/second.

At 20 Hz the wavelength is 17.15 metres (~56.3 feet). At 20 kHz it is 17.15 mm (~0.675 inches). At 5 kHz it is 68.6 mm (~2.7 inches).

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:22 PM

same thing what I said, good catch, and nicely done.

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#33
In reply to #30

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:58 PM

Also, if sound moved at c, conventional loudspeakers would not work - the aperture-to-wavelength ratio would be ridiculously small resulting in nearly zero coupling to air. This is why it is so hard for bass speakers to accurately reproduce very low frequencies and why they have to be large just to reproduce the ones they can.

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#18
In reply to #7

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 1:21 PM

Or... you could just pick them up, and help your neighbor out, by redirecting the sound back at them amplified by 40 dB.--and go to jail.

Or put a bag of sheite on their doorstep and light it on fire -- and go to jail.

Or you could TP their doorway so they can't escape -- and go to jail.

Or you could buy the book on sneaky dirty tricks - - and if you use any of them - -go to jail.

Or put up your own directional speakers that emit infra-sound frequencies - - and give them nausea, cramps, maybe even diarrhea - - and if they figure it out - go to jail.

Or put up a 20' tall sound barrier wall on the property line, then you also do not have to look at them ever again.

If you go with noise cancellation, make sure the cancellation speaker is pointed directly at their speaker, and allow your device to certainly capture their complete waveform before re-broadcasting it in anti-phase. A good system should sense the waveform incident, and send the cancellation waveform in step with it, with 180 degree phase shift.

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#31
In reply to #7

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:33 PM

That diagram shows the phasing at only one point. In two dimensions the real picture looks more like this:

In three dimensions it far more complex, filled with nodes and antinodes that change location as objects move through the volume. This is why sound-cancellation throughout a volume does not work. For every node there is an antinode. For a stationary observer in that volume the sound could conceivably cancel at one ear and peak at the other at twice the intensity.

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#9

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 11:48 AM

again with the bad ideas,... check out the local dog pound,... everyone loves a barking dog at 2 AM.

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#11

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:30 PM

Does your neighbor have a hearing problem where it doesn't affect him?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:36 PM

older people can't hear the noise.

younger can.

it's VERY piercing.

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#14
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:45 PM

I see,.. there have been store owners that have used this technique to keep juveniles from gathering in their store fronts..

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#39
In reply to #14

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 3:05 AM

European classical music has been used similarly on London's Docklands Light Railway.

Mahler or Wagner might work quite well, perhaps?

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#52
In reply to #39

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 10:58 AM

Both work quite well, but Wagner seems to motivate the listener to want to invade Poland.

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#53
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 11:04 AM

Invading Poland is really nothing to brag about. Poland doesn't even have a standing army... But, if you're in the area and built up an appetite after a busy day of invading and pillaging Poland, I highly recommend Eddie Whipps

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#15
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:59 PM

If your neighbor can't hear it, sabotage it when he isn't home, but keep complaining about it. He won't know the difference...

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#17
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 1:05 PM

and the birds adapted...

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#21
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 1:28 PM

"Sabotage it when he isn't home..."

...in other news a woman was convicted of manslaughter for repeating messaging her ex-boyfriend to commit suicide, when after all that he did carry out the act.

Maybe this is not good advice. Neither would be tunneling under the neighbor's house, and installing a Tesla shaker, so he would think he is in the epicenter of a continuous earthquake, although it might be effective in getting him to move away.

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#34
In reply to #21

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 5:56 PM

For the record, it was not meant to be serious advice, means it's said in jest.

I guess I should be more careful, I don't want to aid and abet a criminal act...

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#16
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 12:59 PM

http://onlinetonegenerator.com/

Probably around 4000 hz....

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#20

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 1:25 PM

I once had a neighbor that had a "bug zapper" that kept me awake at night. I asked nicely several times with only nasty answers. After I called him every 20 minutes one night he shut the damn thing off! He threatened to call the police because I was harassing him...I said go ahead! (I have a lot of great stories about this guy)

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#23

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 2:52 PM

First you have to get someone to prove that there is noise there and what the Db level is. Most these devices advertize that you can't hear them. You may have to have your hearing tested to show that you can. Since the township did not help then go up the chain of command county, state, ect. Most states have a noise dept. to take responce to these types of complaints. They would have better testing devices then your township. If you have any businesses close by you could call OSHA with a complaint. They will locate the source and tell you its not a business. You would then have the source of the noise.

There are ordinances for noise what ever the source. Maybe the device is defective. Or your neighbor has done something to it to increase the area of coverage. Most have about 105 Db output at 1 meter.

Also is there any endangered bird species in the area. If there are call some bird watch groups. I'm sure they would help. It maybe that it's harming these endangered birds. Just what a bird hater would like bird lovers causing trouble.

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#24
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 3:02 PM
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#25
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 3:24 PM

Yes animal lover groups too. The more that pester the neighbor the better. But they need to also pester the township officers. That would be the fastest way to some conclusion in getting it turned off.

One other thing any of the kids friends with the township elected officials. Have them over so they can go home complaining about the noise. Maybe have the parent in that picks them up or drops them off. Maybe if they hear what your dealing with they will do something about it.

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#29
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:22 PM

You really expect gobmint to do anything about anything? They aren't in the business of solving issues, just creating more to go with the other annoying aspects of life.

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#28
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Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:20 PM

That was clever response! GA!

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#32

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 4:41 PM

Go up the chain-of-command. Contact your state's Health Dept. and explain the problem, whom you've contacted at the township level, and the results of that. Chances are the microphone in your township's sound meter either does not respond at high frequencies or the meter is being used incorrectly. My sound-level meter has dB ranges and various weightings ('A', 'C' and 'Z' weightings) used to model the human ear's acoustic response. Conceivably they had the meter set to the wrong decibel range. My own experience has shown that townships/counties don't always hire the most competent people when it comes to tech. Contact your state's health dept and ask them to send somebody out.

Something else you might also consider: the direction the device is pointing. Possibly your neighbour could mount it somewhere pointing away from your direction. These devices are fairly directional; the higher the frequency, the more directional they become. This is assuming of course it is not pointed at something (such as a fence or wall) where the sound is reflecting into your yard. A bit of judicious positioning might solve the problem - if your neighbour is cooperative.

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#49
In reply to #32

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 9:23 AM

If it was me, I would be severely tempted to take the neighbor's speaker and a hole saw, and redirect the speaker back into his attic/house, or bury the thing in the dirt.

I said tempted, and I do not want to go to jail, and skip receiving my $200 Go money, so that is completely out of the question.

Actually, I would also be tempted to drill a hole in the neighbor. Buck shot usually works.

Disclaimer: The above advice should never be used prior to consultation with lawyer who can get you off any death penalty case, should that arise. Do not undertake any of the above under any condition, except if neighbor threatens you or your family, then you may kill him with complete innocence.

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#35

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 8:19 PM

If you have a line of sight to the emitter. You can point a parabolic microphone at the source and crank up the volume while pointing a tweeter/midrange back in a frequency your neighbor is capable of hearing.

...Do all of this covertly and ramp it up over days. ..If your neighbor turns off his device the noise will go away?.

Maybe he will think his hearing is getting better to boot.

Can I ask what bird is so repellent to the old coot?

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#36

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 8:20 PM

There have been some good suggestions. Here are some additional to consider:

1. Regularly discretely place suet and bird seed near the sound emitters and attempt to condition birds to be attracted to the sound. If the neighbor sees the device as useless, perhaps they will turn it off.

2. Buy a directional sound speaker system (uses ultrasound which remains much more beam like then produces audible sound via interference of the waves, like this but bigger) or perhaps a directional parabolic speaker system. Project an annoying tone slightly lower that what the neighbor is producing at the neighbor, adjust the sound until they either get the point or mistakenly think it is their own device annoying them.

3. Inquire if the city could obtain a meter that covers the offending frequency.

4. Higher pitch sounds tend arrive mostly via direct paths. You can consider building a sound barrier on the edge of your property facing your neighbor.

5. Talk to a lawyer.

6. In jest, place a bounty on the offending sound emitting devices....joke with appropriate channels that should all the offending devices be brought on a stake to a specific off the beaten path place within a specific time that all construction materials needed for skate or bike ramps would surely follow at that same location. This should only be a joke on your part, but should the outcome be achieved, it would be best to shell out for the construction goods for your part in any misunderstanding.

7. Undertake sustained general gaslighting with as many participants as possible. At the same time begin introducing hundreds of crickets from local bait shops. Start rumours that high pitched noises can cause schizophrenia and also attracts bugs.

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#50
In reply to #36

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 9:33 AM

That is a good idea. I was thinking more about putting a hit on the neighbor, then claiming sound-induced insanity, clearly not a nice way to play.

Another way: start keeping homing pigeons, and teach them to crap on his annoying loudspeaker. Then teach them to dive bomb him, and crap as they are pulling out of the dive. Tora! Tora! Tora!

Or hire a ninja...

Disclaimer: All of the above advices are clearly illegal, and could end in a tragedy, so do not undertake any of them. Other symptoms noted include a rash on the perpetrator of such acts, heavy sweating under a single incandescent bulb, shuffling the feet rapidly under the interrogation table, etc. The etc. symptoms can be even more devastating, including a sudden reaction to injectable medications resulting in sudden stoppage of heart rhythm.

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#55
In reply to #50

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 11:13 AM

"...injectable medications resulting in sudden stoppage of heart rhythm...."

.

That is a mouthful to type. Luckily there is a convenient abbreviation: KCl.

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#37

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/19/2017 10:56 PM

Contact your local council, they should have sound pollution laws, and certainly should have laws about the absolute sound level that anyone is permitted to radiate, regardless of frequency.

You have tried the nice way, speak to the authorities next.

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#40

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 5:21 AM

Many phone apps will not cover the entire frequency range up to 20kHz let alone beyond. Sound level meters are normally calibrate with A or C weighting which rolls off the high frequencies to simulate human perception of loudness. Children can often hear beyond 20kHz so are likely to be affected by the machine, and some adults can perceive sounds beyond 20kHz even if they can't consciously hear them.

You need specialist equipment to measure these frequencies. If you have decent capacitor mics,pre-amp and converter you could prove the existence of the noise by recording at 88.2kHz or 96kHz sampling rate. recording at the usual sample rates will not pick up this sound unless it is below 21kHz, in which case it cannot be classed as ultrasonic.

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#41

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 5:43 AM

When you are young and healthy you can hear to around 20 KHz. So just wait until you get old and you wont hear it.

Really i cant see a DB meter not registering to > 20KHz.

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#68
In reply to #41

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 10:48 AM

A sound level meter with A weighted curve will be 9dB down at 20kHz wrt 1kHz.

C weighted curve is approx 12db down at 20kHz wrt 1kHz.

Anything above 20kHz is undefined, but should not register on an A or C weighted meter.

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#42

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 7:03 AM

You might build a frequency dividing circuit (e.g. 20khz to 5khz), amplify the divided signal, and drive a directional speaker toward your neighbor's house. That way, the same signal he feels is not annoying will become very annoying to him, and might encourage him to stop. Give him a taste of his own medicine.

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#47

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 8:01 AM

How about some guano and a catapult?

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#51

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 10:48 AM

<...NOT TO MENTION...> It has been mentioned, though.

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#56

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 1:22 PM

Why not just get them one of those plastic owls? They work well....pretty quiet too...

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 1:37 PM

Who..Who...Who knows?

Someone else was just telling me about their plastic owl, when I was telling them about my wife popping off a few rounds with the pellet gun at grackles.

It turns out grackles are protected in Texas (but Why?), and should not be killed. So far, we have merely removed a couple of feathers from a few birds, have not seen one fall yet. Yes, our marksmanship is that bad from 20-30 yards distance.

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#58
In reply to #56

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 2:00 PM

I got one of those and mounted it atop my chicken coop.

It was a nice ruse for about 2 weeks, but the hawks eventually got the joke.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 3:08 PM

You might have to upgrade to the moving version....

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#74
In reply to #56

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/22/2017 6:56 AM

What a hoot!

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#62

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/20/2017 10:37 PM

For your own protection put up some security cameras on poles that give you a great view of the common property line between your house and his house. Then tell him you will stop recording his every move, in HD, when he capitulates to your request.

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#63

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 12:04 AM

This is how we deal with noise problems in Joisey...

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 8:44 AM

I was thinking he was gonna fire an RPG at that boat...

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#65

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 10:05 AM

Sometimes local TV stations will have a segment or department that deals with local residents' issues, problems, consumer complaints, etc. See if you can get in contact with someone like that. The negative publicity from that could persuade your neighbor, or have some influence with municipal officials to require a change.

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#66

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 10:13 AM

The Mother of All Countermeasures

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#69
In reply to #66

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 10:53 AM

Hey buddy you got your horn on backwards! Does that thing play dixie?

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#70
In reply to #69

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 11:12 AM

Nah, it only plays havoc.

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#71
In reply to #66

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 12:12 PM

that's awesome

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#72
In reply to #66

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/21/2017 3:05 PM

Unfolded Klipsch horn?

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#73

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/22/2017 6:55 AM

?

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#75

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/24/2017 11:58 PM

Set up a cheap bird feeder. Then complain their system is chasing away your birds. If they cannot stop the noise at your property line they will have to shut the system off. They have no right to chase the birds away from your property.

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#76
In reply to #75

Re: High Pitch Noise Issues

06/26/2017 9:36 AM

Interesting response! Fighting one kind of fire with another kind.

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