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Anonymous Poster #1

Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 11:21 AM

The company i work for we are distributor for the Alfa Laval GamaJet tank cleaning machines. I am trying to get a better understanding on how to spec pumps for these machines and which is the best style of pump to go with. most of the time we are using a vertical centrifugal pumps. It seems it is taking my pump guys a while to get me a pump so i would like to be able to spec a pump myself that way i could just go to him and tell him what i need.

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#1

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 11:33 AM

Is it for sanitary conditions (USDA-3A) Alfa-Laval has suitable pumps.. as well as Waukesha.

As far as size, I'm sure Alfa-Laval have spray information for impact (PSI and Angle Coverage) and flow rate (for orifice size).

It sounds like you don't have this information. With it you can establish a pump curve and select your pump, impeller diameter, RPM and horse power requirements. That is if you have a pump curve and have an idea what kind of pump and service/environment it'll be under.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 11:41 AM

We have the GPMs and PSIs for all of the machines i just dont understand why it is taking my pump guy a week to get me a quote on a pump. Most of our applications are industrial applications.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 11:47 AM

If it been more then an hour to get the information, then he's busy,... if its been more then a day, then...

Having been an Engineering Manager for a OEM that was also a Master Distributor of Alfa Laval, more then likely, your pump guy isn't really a pump guy at all, but a telephone guy to Alfa Laval or whoever.

And since G&H combined with teir sister company Tri-Clover to become Alfa Laval, it's very hard to find pump curves.

It used to be right in their easily available products book.

Check Waukesha.... But then again, I do not know what type of environment these are going into.... such as food processing.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 12:32 PM

I assume you have an idea about the type of pump you're looking for, based on previous jobs, most likely centrifugal, but end suction, split case etc?

Is the wash liquid recirculated, so might pick up solids?

Presumably your PSI is at the machine, might need to add something for pipe losses and elevation change. Then add fluid pumped (water?) and temperature, suction conditions (flooded?) and power supply data, anything else you can think of that's important to you, and send out a few enquiries.

There's no shortage of pump suppliers out there you can approach!

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#8
In reply to #2

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/07/2017 3:39 AM

It's simple: the organisation has higher priorities.

Take the business elsewhere. Or at least, threaten to do so - the ability to bluff is an important skill in business.

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/07/2017 9:11 AM

If you ask for a pump with a base and a motor sized for maximum possible flow, and coupling fitted to it, and a guard, usually to your end users specifications, your seller is probably sourcing (for best cost) this equipment from all separate sources.

And that is for a common ANSI horizontal end suction pump. Vertical pumps with multiple stages are much less common, have more details to specify; a week for an engineered vertical pump quote sounds blazing fast, these days.

By the time you stack up all of these response times, probably not doing bad for a week turn-around. Selecting the pump is the easy part, convert psi to head, find the pump casing with the flow range you need, look for an impeller diameter with decent efficiency on the published pump curve for the pressure you need, or these days, an OEM computer program that will spit out the cheapest possible pump that will do the job you ask, so they keep the business based on initial cost.

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#12
In reply to #2

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/10/2017 2:22 PM

If it takes that long, they don't need your business. Find another OEM, and move along, and thank God for all the hell you saved by not choosing that vendor.

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#5

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 12:59 PM

..."How do you size a Gamajet to work with an existing pump?

To answer this question, one must first determine what type of pump is being using. There are two main families of pumps that work with Gamajet Tank Cleaning machines. The first is a centrifugal or impeller style of pump, the second is a positive displacement pump.

A centrifugal pump moves the wash water with the veins of a rotating impeller. By its nature, as the back pressure in a system builds the pump begins to "slip", i.e. the flow rate drops as the resistance increases. This style of pump can be "dead headed" (zero flow rate) for short periods of time without damage or danger to a properly configured system. A Gamajet is typically sized to work close to the centrifugal pump's best efficiency point. This type pump is commonly used in Gamajet IV, VI, VIII, IX, and some Gamajet V applications.

A positive displacement, PD, pump moves the wash water by a more mechanical and constant means (piston, plunger, mechanical diaphragm, etc.). This style of pump is usually rated for a certain maximum flow rate from which it will not vary (but it can be decreased by running the pump slower), and a maximum pressure rating. Do not confuse this maximum rating with the actual operating pressure of the pump. The actual operating pressure is dictated by the restrictions the water must overcome (plumbing, elevation, and Gamajet) at the set flow rate. Pumps of this style have almost no slip and, therefore, cannot be "dead headed". For obvious safety reasons, a bypass or pressure relief valve must be used on the outlet of constant volume pumps.

One has more freedom when sizing a Gamajet for use with a PD pump because there isn't a best efficiency point. Using the set flow rate as a guide, Gamajets are usually sized to offer the appropriate operating pressure based on factors such as size of the vessel, stubbornness of the dirt, maximum pressure ratings of the pump and supply plumbing, etc. This type of pump is commonly used in Gamajet E-Z 7, HD-bb, All-in-one and some Gamajet V and 6 applications.

If you have any questions about sizing a pump, please contact us."...

http://www.gamajet.com/faq.php

http://www.fristam.com/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?language=en-US&Command=Core_Download&EntryId=254&PortalId=0&TabId=301

https://www.ksb.com/blob/52818/2f87b1fd260f81ed17fc6731e173b886/auslegung-en-data.pdf

http://www.pumpschool.com/intro/pd%20vs%20centrif.pdf

http://fristam.ca/Assets/Fristam_PDF/FL/PD_Tech_Manual/PD-Select-w-Curves.pdf

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#6
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Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 4:08 PM

An impeller has vanes, not veins or vains.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/06/2017 8:00 PM

But the vanes of the impeller move the pumped fluid through the veins of the equipment! Yes?

And the arteries of such a system are there, as well, but are usually just gravity fed into a sump.

(Global warming is real)

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Anonymous Poster #2
#10

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/08/2017 6:04 PM

Who are your customers?

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#11

Re: Alfa Laval Tank Cleaning Machines

07/10/2017 2:20 PM

Because the vertical centrifugal pump will deliver the required flow at the correct pressure with the lowest mass profile, and lowest HP requirement needed.

Move along now, stop re-inventing the apple.

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