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Anonymous Poster #1

Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 4:54 PM

Does anyone find any data for the Young's Modulus of cooked Pinto Beans.

We are interested in making re-fried beans, and want to let all the air out of the "air-tights".

We understand if the bean has too high a modulus, it will jump, or squish out of the rollers, and if the modulus is too low, the roller will just mash the bean and it will stick to the roller. We tried using various cutters, grating machines, etc. and this just does not work.

Our aim is to have satisfied customers of our re-fried beans.

Thank you for your answers.

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#1

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 5:03 PM

I would think a grinder extruder would be the preferred method of squashing beans...

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 6:08 PM

I would add if your beans are jumping, they are not properly cooked...

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#2

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 5:46 PM

I don't know whether Young's modulus relates to how good they are for your heart...

Seriously, if they are sticking to your rollers, is it possible to coat the rollers with Teflon or a similar substance to keep the beans from sticking? Or maybe coat the beans with vegetable oil so they don't stick.

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#13
In reply to #2

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 8:55 AM

We use lard. Actually rollers (or rolling pins) are not used, but something like food processor blades are used in production. In go the cooked beans, out comes something about the consistency of hummus. This is after the addition of lard, more salt, spices such as jalapeno or chili, etc.

I am the infamous AP#1 - you have all been punked.

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#16
In reply to #2

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:04 AM

the rollers is from a roller mill, its actually not smooth (almost like a rough knurl) and takes quite a bit of a beating where Teflon would release into the product..

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#21
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:08 AM

Nice!

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#37
In reply to #16

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 3:42 PM

knarly knurls dude.....

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#38
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 7:16 PM

On a somber note.

On the farm the early corn pickers had rubber rollers similar to de-husk the cob. Now and again husks would get wound up, and the farmer would remove the husks by hand... if any of the clothing got caught your only Chance of surviving is to give up what was pulled in and salvage what wasn't...

When I was about 10 years old,... I was with my dad at a farm auction, I saw what was left out f the farmers arm, and I asked my dad about it,... he knew him.

gruesome... that taught me right there about precaution and safety.

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#39
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/08/2017 10:43 AM

How did that not get cleaned out of the machine prior to the auction?

Were these folks in too big of a hurry to stop the PTO drive to the machine prior to servicing the rollers?

In Texas, we call that, "too broke to pay attention."

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#40
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/08/2017 12:48 PM

no, the machine wasn't at the auction,... the guy who get his arm caught in the machine was at the auction...

yes,... The type of picker was a 'New Idea',... it was just foolishness of not respected the equipment.

The guys arm looked terrible,... what was left of it. what he did, he grabbed his arm with his free arm and let the rollers rub through his arm enough to pull what was left of his arm out.

I say these husk, and the husks zip off. We learned at a very young age to respect it.

And here's the culprit that made 'Lefty',.... or 'Righty' well the real culprit was the farmer....

On our farm, We have always considered the we were pretty safe practices then other farmers,... until I left the farm and worked at some companies... then I realized we took more unnecessary risks than we should.

Just was fortunate that nothing happened.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/08/2017 3:24 PM

And this story, along with a thousand thousand others like it, were woven into the cloth that became OSHA's first suit-and-tie.

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#42
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/08/2017 3:38 PM

LOL.

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#43
In reply to #41

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/08/2017 4:16 PM

OSHA also had to be careful... politically. Like a lot of government agencies, At one time they forgot that business is what kept them in Business

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#3

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 6:05 PM
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#5

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 6:29 PM
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#12
In reply to #5

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 8:52 AM

Wow! I am impressed that you actually found that, and found it quickly!

My Dad punked my Mom once by telling her to use a rolling pin to "roll the "gas" (insert other word here if you wish) out of the beans". When he got back home that night from a day of plowing the fields, he was met with (1) a very angry wife, and (2) beans scattered all over the kitchen.

I posted this entire thread as an attempted punking of the response panel. I just needed something to laugh about today.

by the way, the study you linked is more relevant to the harvesting of red beans of variable moisture contents, than to the mashing of cooked red beans into re-fried beans.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:01 AM

I agree,... I missed this post.

and that the "Poisson's ratio and Young's modulus of red bean grains were determined as a function of moisture content"

Where all what one would need is a moisture tester... great find Rixter.

Interesting book,.. if I would get back into food processing,.. this would be a valued good purchase.

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#27
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:27 AM

This report should be nominated for an Ig Nobel award.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:41 AM

Apparently, someone at my organization got ahold of that information. It seems all upper level management selections are based on random individuals being promoted, and not having a great deal to do with engineering competency.

Another question: how come the dictionary on CR4 cannot recognize simple English words such as "ahold"?

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:48 AM

what a coincidence... at my company, if you bask in the operations directors light and agree with what he says and laugh at his jokes... BAM! ,... you're a manager.

If you point out and challenge him like most have done... BAM! you're out...

P911 is in the batters box on this one with a 3-2 count.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:55 AM

So you're sayin' that one ounce of suck up, is worth a ton of realism?

I am so far down the food chain now where I work, that they have to pipe sunshine to me or I will mold.

In another culture - the guy on the bottom of the totem pole is the one holding up and supporting everyone else - that one is the chief. The idiot at the top of the totem pole is just a lightning rod.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 10:05 AM

Hey, its not a contest....

btw,...

ahh... that's not sunshine being pipe down to ya.... but as long as you think it is... that's ok...

Our company was purchased about 2 years ago... and the Operations Director systematically was leaving key employees go after he got what he wanted from them, by goading and talking down to them until he gets the response that can have them discharged.

I'm surprised I lasted this long, most likely from the familiarity of the process. I'm fortunate to have seen that and it frustrating to the Oopserations Director that his goading has backfired a number of times.

Over-educated prick.... I hope I didn't say that out loud.

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#32
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 10:24 AM

According to Google scholar, there are over 5000 entries related to goading. Apparently psychologist's have spent a considerable amount of time trying to understand this type of wacky behavior. So in this respect, you may be the only one or one of the few in your organization that is surrounded by those engaging in kooky mannerisms.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 10:43 AM

So in this respect, you may be the only one or one of the few in your organization that is surrounded by those engaging in kooky mannerisms.

Of course I'm part of the few,.. and its getting fewer.

It interesting how it started...

This operations director started innocently enough with our EHS Manager that sounded like with bad jokes., looking back it was derogatory. And then he pushing the limit with inappropriate remarks.

The EHS manager left and mentioned if he (the Operations Director) didn't hire you, you don't have a future... I thought that's premature statement (he was left within 3 months)

But it made me aware on top of the EHS (Environment, Health and Safety) Manager with examples.

  • Lead Electrical manager at one of our facilities, Quit (Director reason, he's an ass) I knew him, he was good.
  • Purchasing Manager (He was on his way out,... The director said he should go to the after hours get-together at a bar (with the kids he hired). he left before he would be left go and one of the directors kids took his spot... he just had his 27th birthday... The Purchasing Manager he's in his 60's.
  • Operations Manager, He handled production, he's was push initially, but he'll be retiring soon, so the Director stopped goading him. But put one of the kids in his place.
  • I talked it over with my boss, and he let me know he's polishing up his resume because as soon as they can, he knows he's out.
  • Same with the Electrical Controls Manager.

There's a half dozen more that I know of, but there are more that I had no interaction with that have left.

I just accept it, but I won't back down when he confronts me with his mannerisms... and it usually blows up in his face, but its just a matter of time for me.

And also explains why I have little patience here for when I see goading.

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 11:03 AM

Goading has nothing to do with manners. It is intrinsically creating a continually brooded hostile work environment. Just a matter of time before the wrong person cancels someone's ticket.

BTW - this thread was initially about the physical/mechanical properties of cooked beans. It migrated over to bean counting (I think). Now we are talking hostile work environment. Somewhere in there, a whole lot of coffee beans must have gone down river.

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 11:09 AM

I realize that.

The term 'Hostile Environment' is what my boss confirm to me.

And...

It started with the use of Bacon Grease.

I digress no farther.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 11:00 AM

Careful the ears of the walls have ears, corn has ears too!

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#6

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 7:04 PM

You could use a Kitchen Aid...

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 8:59 AM

mmmm bacon grease with beans!

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#18
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:05 AM

bacon grease, that what you use for traditional refried beans...

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:08 AM

Lard.

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#23
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:11 AM

I dated a Mexican girl in my youth, and she made refried beans... which I loved... she used bacon grease... from freshly made bacon... I missed those beans...

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:20 AM

What about her? Any girl that cooks should have been kept around forever.

I am hearing that old Marty Robbins song in my mind right now: El Paso

My brother-in-law (deceased now) used to sing that often when he and I were on a beer run, or going fishing. We would always leave in the wee hours of the morning, and be in Odessa before dawn, stop at a gas station for chocolate milk, and a hot link sandwich, and be on our way. We would arrive on the Rio Grande before the heat of the day, or on the banks of the Pecos early morning, and set up camp. We would have throw lines in the water before afternoon.

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#25
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:22 AM

Any girl that cooks should have been kept around forever.

one can't live on refried beans alone... God knows,.. I tried.

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#7

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 8:29 PM

Or Gallagher's sledge hammer.

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#8

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 9:26 PM

Why are these pinto beans "re-fried"? Why are they called re-fried in the first place when they are boiled?

Why not just use a Hammermill - Wikipedia?

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#17
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Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:04 AM

I suppose they would cook faster if pre-milled. Hey, you might be onto something.

Actually, Lyn, the way wifey (and I) do the beans now is (1) bring the cleaned beans to a boil, dump the water. (2) repeat step (1). (3) repeat step (1). (4) Now add the pork (can be salt pork, pork belly, bacon (generally a waste of good bacon), or ham hocks, even chunk ham if that is all you have, (5) Add one small can tomato sauce, pinch salt, close the pressure cooker and bring to slow boil, reduce heat as you apply the "rocker weight", the rocker needs to have a slow beat, but steady. (6) 35-40 minutes pressure boiling, then remove heat, and when safe, remove and chill the cooker to drop pressure for opening.

The first steps remove pentose sugars responsible for bean side effects.

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#26
In reply to #8

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:25 AM

Because when you warm them up, you add more Lard, and use a skillet?

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#9

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/06/2017 11:45 PM

Young's modulos of bean counters

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 6:45 AM

That was actually funny. G.A.

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#19
In reply to #9

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:05 AM

Nicely done, gut.

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#11

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 7:38 AM

I'm sure this is for a sampling for batches,...The question I have is, can you actually get the consistency throughout the batch?

As far as making it 'air-tight', in the dairy industry, we would process it under vacuum.

Using Cheese as an example, we would process it in a twin screw (or single screw) cheese cooker similar to this. This can be used as a similar to SE post as a grinder extruder. (Twin screw you get more shearing action)

Normally this are culinary steam inject for cooking, but can also be water-jacketed.

but with beans it may be slightly different with the skins for texture consistently though-out.

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#20
In reply to #11

Re: Young's Modulus of Pinto Beans

09/07/2017 9:07 AM

Seriously punked, you have been. I do like where you went with it, though. Industrial bean processing is really serious business. Just ask the folks at Old El Paso.

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