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Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 10:11 AM

a refinery is facing leakage issues from their 1000km long pipeline from their source field to refinery. we purposed them solution on the basis of internally movable piezoelectric membrane. Is good idea. For further details see the attachment.

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#1

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 10:25 AM

You don't understand what a laser beam is.

I don't understand how you expect the beam to travel through oil or other liquids.

Study lasers!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 11:08 AM

We just qoute it as. From someone else research paper. Soon I will attach research paper links about this. Our concern is piezoelectric membrane.

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#3
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 11:57 AM

That's called plagiarism in this country.

It's also very misleading.

Membrane implies both thinness and flexibility.

mem·brane ˈmemˌbrān/ noun ANATOMYZOOLOGY

  1. a pliable sheetlike structure acting as a boundary, lining, or partition in an organism.
    synonyms:layer, sheet, skin, film, tissue, integument, overlay; technicalpellicle "the sensitive membranes in the mouth"
    • a thin pliable sheet or skin of various kinds. "the concrete should include a membrane to prevent water seepage"
      synonyms:layer, sheet, skin, film, tissue, integument, overlay; technicalpellicle "the sensitive membranes in the mouth"
      How did you come to choose a thin flexible membrane for use in a high pressure, high flow, highly corrosive environment?
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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 12:06 PM

We have test the pipeline from 27 different locations from inside for checking its internal structure.. there is no such problem which can destroy that membrane. The distance between membrane and pipe is to small that pressure doesn't effet it until a leakage occure.

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#10
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 1:56 PM
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#4

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 12:03 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bond fiber optics to the exterior of the pipeline in such a manner that any disruption of the line will signal for a localized inspection.

Of course it's easier said than done!

Less expensive too, but not having a petroleum pipeline frees up my ability to pipedream.

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#6

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 12:13 PM

Duplicate thread.

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#7
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 12:26 PM

How is it duplicate..??

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#8
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 12:31 PM

By there being two threads of the same title on the same subject.

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#9
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 12:43 PM

Actually in first video was not showing. So I post 2nd one.

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#12
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 2:48 PM

I strongly suggest that you read ALL the CR4 Rules of Conduct and the CR4 FAQ.

Here is the specific rule:

  1. Are there specific rules for posting?

Do not post the same thread multiple times. The CR4 moderation team will delete all but the most appropriate instance, and may delete them all if sufficiently annoyed.

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#15
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 10:17 PM

Really sorry. I didn't know this..

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#16
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 10:23 PM

That's OK, but reading the FAQ is advisable.

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#11

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 2:35 PM

If this was a "high velocity" gas pipeline, the gas escaping through a hole or break in the pipe would be far higher than normal velocity. Triboelectric effect dictates that this gas will catch on fire (induced static electricity discharges), and you will instantly know where the pipeline is leaking, seriously.

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#14
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 10:15 PM

This is crude oil pipeline. So we suggest this idea.

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#17
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 9:24 AM

I am thoroughly against the use of any such sensor (network) inside an oil pipeline, following the reason that the pipeline may need to be "pigged" at various points in its operating lifetime, to enhance flow of product.

It would be better to figure a way to put optical strain gauges on the outside of the pipe, or your piezoelectric sensor on the outside of the pipe (and still make it work, by another principle).

That is all I have for you at this time.

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#19
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 9:45 AM

We can't use external system. This pipeline is 30 year old. When it was laied then the totall portion of pipeline pass out of cities. Now a days this pipeline has came between the cities. Now it is impossible to dig the ground for the sake of installation of external sensors. The bearings used in it are made of very soft material which can't be effect by pigged of pipeline. And last time a fiber optics related system was try to install in 100 km pipeline. (In phase 1) but no result was found . Cameras were installed to detect the leakage but results were zero. So we suggest this sensor..

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#20
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 9:57 AM

Well then, would do us the favor of posting again in the future when this product comes to its fruition?

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#23
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 10:22 AM

We are going to perform little experiment on this tomorrow. I will share its results here. I hope results will be in the era of 70 -90 %..

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#13

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/14/2017 3:33 PM

FYI, this paper describes some of the techniques in use today for leak and theft detection.

http://asgmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/004.pdf

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#18
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 9:38 AM

Very useful link.

Probably the best answers lie with fiber optic outside the pipe (where any leak will touch the actual optical fiber, resulting in signal loss). That tells us a leak is taking place, but also simultaneously requires the pipe and the fiber to be sealed from any weather intrusion that might produce a similar effect, but also one might perhaps distinguish by design where water liquid is not enough refractive index to cause optical signal loss.

If one had some piezoelectric material that was rectilinear in form, would it be possible to have this act as a "wire" microphone to pick up acoustic signals occuring somewhere along the pipe. Could one then use a pulsed electric signal to "wave cancel" the acoustic signal at only its source? I really am not seeing this work, just asking.

Could an absorbent tube (oleophilic material) be utilized that would change its characteristics to either an electric signal, or an acoustic signal when leak is present, and where transient signal analysis would pinpoint the location?

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#21
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 10:05 AM

Actual issue is not related leakage. Actual issue is that, people theft the crude oil by connecting there own underground pipeline with main pipeline of company. According to ur idea, if companies is agree to put the piezoelectric or any fiber-optic related sensor on the outside of pipeline. Then first issue will be they need to dig the land and they have to pay for the public property lose.

2. They have to open the pipeline and then will able to install the sensor on all sides of pipeline by this work the cost of pipeline will increase too much.

3.. on shutting down of refinery will create a problem because it is 2nd large refinery of the country. Diesel and petrol supply will effect the a large part of population because diesel and petrol shortage will occur there.

4. If refinery is shut down for an hour then it faces 1.5 million USD lose.

So we suggest this solution under these circumstances. Now tell us either our solution is right or wrong....

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#22
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/15/2017 10:16 AM

Wrong or right, right or wrong, is not the issue. The wrong and right of it is the thieves, who deserve severe punishments, who by their very acts defy the good people of your country, and act in the face of what they were taught from the beginning.

Provide a strong incentive to obey the law, reward those who report the evil-doers.

How do these thieves gain access without digging up the pipe to "hot-tap" the line?

Sound more to me like a job for drones/video surveillance, maybe augmented with detectors that can tell when the digging is taking place, such as undermining, tunneling, etc. If you catch the thieves after the fact, is it not worth it, then you have all the evidence you need.

Peace be with you, and your people.

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#24

Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/16/2017 5:02 PM

If you lay two fiber optic cables on either side of the pipeline. any dig up or localized activities will disrupt the injected signal quite readily. I'd imagine some differentiation of 'sounds' possible.

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#25
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Re: Leakage Detection Through Piezoelectric Membrane

09/17/2017 12:05 AM

Now it is impossible to laay down fiber optics on any sside ofthe pipeline. Because it is 30 year old pipeline. Now after 30 years, a major portion of pipeline passes through cities. In this scenario to dig up the land for installing fiber optic, we have to pay for public property loss... This may effect new highways network.

Suggest according this scenario...

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