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Dielectric Elastomer

09/25/2017 10:16 PM

Hello there,

I know some of dielectric elastomers like 3M VHB4910, 4905... but those are all film-type elastomers.

I am wondering if I can fabricate the shape of the elastomer like lumped type, free form..

Where can I find the fabrication process methods ?!?!

Thanks in advance!

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#1

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/25/2017 10:35 PM

You might find some research groups in local colleges, or you can try to build your own....

http://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9781846283710-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-357404-p138795136

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#2

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/25/2017 11:15 PM

In plainspeak VHB tapes are simply two sided foam tapes.

Something like Rectorseal 97600 2-Ounce Ep-200 Epoxy Putty should work nicely.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 1:41 AM

thanks. you mean Ep-200 Epoxy could be one of dielectric elastomers ?!?!

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 1:46 AM

We have a semantics issue here.

Perhaps if you explained what, specifically, what you are trying to do.

Also, providing your understood definition of an elastomer? How much flexibility is required?

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 2:08 AM

I am studying EAP(Electro Active Polymer) actuators. Most research groups use custom-made dielectric elastomers like 3M VHB4910 seriesm, but I want to test different shapes having some volumes (not just film type).

To make it shaped, maybe I need to make a mould to put it(dielectric elastomer) into, and dry the elastomer while heating.

So... I want to know how to make the dielectric elastomer by myself.

Thanks. :)

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 10:25 AM

Specialty Tapes - VHB Technical Data Sheet - Stronger security is ...

These 3M™ VHB™ Tapes (including 4910) are made with acrylic foam which is viscoelastic in nature. This gives the foam energy absorbing and stress relaxing properties which provides these tapes with their unique characteristics. The acrylic chemistry provides outstanding durability performance.

This foam tape is used to items together. "3M™ VHB™ Tapes provide the convenience and simplicity of a tape fastener and are ideal for use in many interior and exterior bonding applications. In many situations, they can replace rivets, spot welds, liquid adhesives and other permanent fasteners".

I'm lost.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 1:41 PM

So am I. Where does dielectric come into it?

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 4:30 AM

Also your definition of a dielectric. I always thought it was another name for an insulator, but maybe you have additional properties in mind.

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#3

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 1:15 AM

You would have to find out the reaction for making the polymer, then adapt an appropriate method for creating the shape that you want.

(Google would no doubt be faster than posting here and waiting for a reply )

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#8

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 9:53 AM

There's a reason dielectric elastomers are constructed as films. If you look into the physics, there is an electrical attraction (force) between two charged plates.

https://softroboticstoolkit.com/book/dielectric-elastomer-actuators

The force between two charged plates is proportional to the area, the dielectric constant, the square of the voltage and inversely proportional to thickness squared. Thus, films are the most efficient form.

http://depts.gpc.edu/~claphast/PHYS2212L/Coulomb.pdf

Constructing thicker components could be better accomplished by stacking thin films bonded together rather than making a thicker device.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 2:25 PM

Nicely done with defining the problem at hand.

Suppose now we took the same material, wadded it up, and applied point to point voltage? What effect would we see?

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: dielectric elastomer

09/26/2017 2:38 PM

And, how does this differ from:

Magnetostrictive Versus Piezoelectric Transducers For Power ...

May be best directed @ nzur

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#13

Re: Dielectric Elastomer

09/26/2017 3:08 PM

Here is an interesting video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDqmGHHKkWw

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#14

Re: Dielectric Elastomer

09/26/2017 4:25 PM

Thanks to Rixter, there is clarity.

No epoxy is not suitable, because it is too rigid.

Since thickness plays a large role in this, molding something thicker has drawbacks.

Any "rubber" would seem to be a candidate. (Silly Putty?) Silicone? Urethane? Viton? Two part RTV seems worth a try.

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#16
In reply to #14

Re: Dielectric Elastomer

09/27/2017 9:01 AM

The rigidity of the material is a function of elastic modulus. Materials such as piezoelectric ceramics and quartz follow the same laws as these low modulus (rigidity) materials. The response to voltage drive is governed by the voltage/strain coefficient.

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#15

Re: Dielectric Elastomer

09/27/2017 8:42 AM

RUBBER with requested properties: you can find your rubber making, for example, combinations of natural rubber combined with acrylonitrile, epoxy, acid maleic, carboxylic groups, phenolic resins...

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#17

Re: Dielectric Elastomer

09/27/2017 1:24 PM

Are you trying to create motion with this, or measure motion? This is a fundamental question which may help us answer your question.

I have used conductive foam as a variable resistance type of sensor. It works nicely for the short term, but it must be protected from excessive force and contaminates. It is very spongy. It was used extensively at one time to protect IC chips from static electricity during storage. Just stick your IC into or onto the foam and it was safe.

I attached copper electrodes by heating them with a soldering iron while in contact with the foam. A pretty stable bond could be formed in a few seconds.

I don't know how to make the foam, but you may be able to talk to the suppliers. It appeared to be cut into sheets from a block. So if your interest is measurement, then conductive foam is fairly common. If you are trying to create motion, that is something entirely different.

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Codemaster (2); James Stewart (1); Jose1 (1); lyn (5); Mikerho (1); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (1); nzur (2); Rixter (2); SolarEagle (1); welderman (1)

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