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Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 1:41 PM

Not according to some....

...but if we look at what's coming down the pike, well maybe that graph is not so accurate...

China successfully develops first Hualong One nuclear reactor

14 NOVEMBER 2017 • 9:30AM

China Daily

China, which has become a pioneer in the nuclear power sector globally, is seeking regulatory approval for use of the technology in Britain

China’s first nuclear reactor using Hualong One technology, a domestically developed third-generation reactor design, completed all its tests in the south-western Chinese province of Sichuan.

Jointly designed by two nuclear power giants, China General Nuclear Power Group and China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC), the Hualong One pressurised water reactor is seen as a big step in the development of the nation’s home-grown third-generation nuclear power facilities.

After going through 30 tests in four days, the design and performance of the Hualong One reactor were rated superior to the required standards.

In April 2015, the government approved the use of Hualong One technology to build two reactors, unit 5 and 6 at the Fuqing nuclear power plant in Fujian province, in parallel with units 3 and 4 of the Fangchenggang nuclear project in the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region.

The Hualong One nuclear reactor, produced by Dongfang Electric Machinery (DFEM) for unit 5 and 6 in Fuqing, has a capacity of 1,200MW.

After decades of learning and innovation, China has mastered independent design and manufacturing of third-generation nuclear power facilities and become a pioneer in the nuclear sector worldwide.

There are now four projects using the Hualong One design under construction, including two reactors in the Pakistani city of Karachi. China is also seeking regulatory approval for use of the technology in Britain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/world/china-watch/technology/testing-of-hualong-one-nuclear-reactor-finished/

What do you think the future holds for energy production in the US?

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#1

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 2:42 PM

more stuff on generation III PWR tech.

I foresee also there will be commissioning of many of the SMR systems

DOE on SMR tech

http://www.nuscalepower.com/

Then there are the better designs using molten salts (LIFTR for example), more efficient, better fuel consumption, and possible extension to using waste spent fuel as primary fuel. (maybe)

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#2

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 3:16 PM

Is it me or does the "Trump bump" (as I call it) shown on the graph for the temporary increase in coal fired power station production look, well a bit optimistically low, while renewables is a bit optimistically high?

Wasn't the plan to greatly increase coal production to give more white collar workers more jobs?

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#3
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 4:16 PM

The "Trump bump" as you so endearingly call it, probably has more to do with coal production for other things than generation and/or export to countries like India and China.

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#6
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 6:13 PM

Yes I agree any coal production increase is now mostly for export.... The US exports better than half of all coal produced...

https://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t7p01p1.pdf

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=66&t=2

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#28
In reply to #3

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:59 PM

digressing farther,... some would say that the higher coal production only employees a few people at best, and it has nothing to do with the bump.

But in actuality, the 'bump' where a few here have problems understand is the bump is from consumer and business 'confidence'. Something we haven't hat in the past administrations.

Getting back to the topic somewhat... Where this affects energy, is it makes it difficult to develop alternative energy.

Its interesting to see how China is pushing it,... but they tend to have a more forward thinking...

But with most things,... it appears everything is cyclical, what is old is new again...

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#4

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 5:02 PM

Where I live we've been reaping the benefit of Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station since 1986.

Built in the middle of the desert, and the largest in the US, it uses reclaimed water for cooling.

The fear I have now with building new nuke plants is that the safety regulations will go out the window in the name of profits for the contractors and politicians.

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#5
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/16/2017 6:04 PM

With the overreaction we've seen from radiation releases from nuclear power plants, I don't think anybody is willing to risk cutting corners for any reason....The designs I've seen are inherently safer than past reactor designs, graded well safer than even the increasing failure risk acceptance levels being touted....and we know the demand for carbon free power is only going to increase over time...

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#22
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:05 PM

The trend is going to the more expensive design of more 'fail-safe reactor designs', which the earlier reactor designs were in its infancy. But economics had put that on the back burner.

There are some country's that are making an exerted effort, (if that's enough) to make more of a fail-safe deign of reactors.

And China is in the forefront of this.

There still will be the same issues, such as the storage/disposal of high-level waste (HLW) that is produced by nuclear reactors.

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#23
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:12 PM

The high level waste, and low consumption rate of the actual fuel before setting aside, demands the new molten salt reactors, but there is whole lot remaining to be worked out. Safety in preventing a reactor runaway on molten salt reactors with fuel dissolved in the slat is very easy, remove power from the drain-freeze plug, and it dumps, and loses neutron flux.

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#24
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:31 PM

Safety in preventing a reactor runaway on molten salt reactors with fuel dissolved in the slat is very easy, remove power from the drain-freeze plug, and it dumps, and loses neutron flux.

Yes,... no pumps required... all gravity. There are a few threads about that here on CR4.

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#7
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 8:33 AM

Might that fear actually be based in fact, but more of an emotional tug near your center of gravity?

From what I have read (obviously third grade level) about the Chinese reactor is that all of the usual safety features have been included, and possibly upgraded.

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#8
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 10:09 AM

No! That fear is simply that the new "administration" is desperately trying the remove any and everything even remotely connected to the past administration out of insane jealousy.

This is not in the name of progress, indeed it will prove destructive in the future.

Maybe not to nuclear power, but destructive none the less.

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#9
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 11:24 AM

Gosh Lyn, I think the Chinese have been working on their Generation III nukes for a long time, even before present company in office.

You really should not get all lathered up over stuff that just isn't real.

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#10
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 11:36 AM

I had in mind the USA and our future, domestic nuclear programs.

Remember our new motto, America first?

I'm all for nuclear power, and renewable energy.

I'm not for mining more dead plants and animals and burning them.

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#11
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 11:42 AM

Nah, we will let the importers do the burning, that makes it all better, since they are burning coal anyways, and we really, really need the money.

Maybe if some of us teamed up and started pulling in the same, right direction, we could get some new nuclear generation, certainly not in the same style as the older fleet, but the new better stuff.

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#15
In reply to #11

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 12:10 PM

" But the new better stuff. "

Same old message.

New and better ways to kill people and poison the earth.

Sure, windmills, hydroelectric and solar panels aren't the end all, but it is a step in a better direction.

At least I won't have to worry about something I can't see, hear, taste, feel or smell that will shorten my life span.

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#16
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 1:29 PM

..."At least I won't have to worry about something I can't see, hear, taste, feel or smell that will shorten my lifespan."...

Yeah you will always have to worry about that, no matter what...You realize all these things exist in nature already....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor

https://www.epa.gov/radon/health-risk-radon

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-25/news/mn-16243_1_toxic-gas

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/05/21/the-strangest-disaster-of-the-20th-century/

Yes Timmy, the natural environment is deadly and toxic...

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#19
In reply to #15

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:00 PM

Have you checked the safety records of deaths caused by nuclear energy utilization compared to coal fired generation?

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#12
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 11:46 AM

I'm not for mining more dead plants and animals and burning them.

Stop burning dead plants and animals and the mining will stop. What drives the mining is demand.

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#17
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 1:34 PM

You seem to be stuck in a constant state of hysteria...

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#18
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 1:53 PM

No, reality.

"Exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement, especially among a group of people" fits you and the rest of the starry-eyed worshipers of new policies and their source.

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#20
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:01 PM

I don't want to take sides. But, I would like to say that progress is a blend of "reality now" and "reality as it could be". Just saying....

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#27
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:48 PM

Lyn: I take my wand and now you are are Starry-Eye...

P911: No I'm not, and here's my wand...

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#21
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:03 PM

Naw, Lyn lives in Arizona, not the State of Hysteria.

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#25
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:35 PM

Nevertheless, he seems to be mesmerized by the misguided antifa newsfeeds from the young and restless.....

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#26
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 2:46 PM

Well, I suppose we must humor those who remain skeptics, or even cynics about nuclear energy's safety record.

Yes, there are real scientific challenges, along with the engineering challenges, and I pray to all higher power that our younger generation gets this, and will have the skills to master it for future benefits of mankind.

Not so much likely in the States where minds are being dulled by legalized weed.

There are also a preponderance of facts to support my position on that also.

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#29
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 5:07 PM

Oh I don't think there are more people smoking weed then there was in the 60's....there's just more people doing it legally...

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#13

Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 12:00 PM

I think the biggest factor would be the understanding/education of the subject. I was in the Navy Nuclear Power Program. The Navy's schools were very different from civilian schools. The Navy had a specific purpose for the schooling. There was a lot theory included, but it did have a specific application in mind. In Electrician's Mate "A" school, I was put on mandatory night-study just because of the questions I asked. I wanted to get a good understanding of the subject, not just memorize the "facts". The point I want to make here, is that if one doesn't "keep up" with the program, they'll get left behind. This was in sharp contrast to the BEE (Basic Electricity and Electronics) school, which was self-paced. In B double E school, they just threw you into a library with the task of learning the stuff. You could go at your own pace. Access to the material was loose/free. If you recognized a lack in your own understanding, you could spend more time on that (and you wouldn't be left behind). I wound up graduating that school ahead of time. I got more out of it than with a pre-programmed paced school. If students/teachers would be allowed to spend extra time on problem areas, understanding would go up. Less memory loss. More confidence. Improved safety. Improved reactions to unforeseen crises. More public support. I took my qualifications/confidence seriously. When you're out in the middle of the ocean on a submarine with no support from other ships (that would give our position away), you had to sure that you were confident in what you were doing. Not just for the mission, but also for your own survival. If this kind of attention was paid to the future of Nuclear Power, I think less people would be afraid of it. I would like to add, that being on the surface on a submarine (which is still mostly underwater and made to sink), with nothing else to be seen, 360 degrees from horizon to horizon, on the Bridge where only about five people can fit, you really appreciate what "the middle of nowhere" really means. And in rough seas, it's awesome.

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#14
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Re: Is Nuclear Poised For a Comeback?

11/17/2017 12:09 PM

I can understand the techniques for the Navy Nuclear Power Program.

It may seem like one is operating (being educated) from the seat of your pants,... but in actuality... Its not only learning, but doing it under stress and evaluating the results on how you react under stress.

Known a few submariners... this is what I picked up from the little they did say.

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