CR4® - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®


Previous in Forum: Plant Availability Factor in Thermal Power Station   Next in Forum: MCOV Rating of LA
Close
Close
Close
44 comments
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13

HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/18/2017 7:47 PM

I am trying to find information on:

I have a P.L. Light Systems Canada, LR48877 Ballast, 490W, 60Hz 5.2 amps (.) 120v, date on it is 1998

i have a 1000W Metal Halide Bulb

can I...

A) use them together

B) figure out if the ballast if good or bad

C) and if not, please give me information, I am new to this.

thanks

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
2
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20033
Good Answers: 753
#1

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/18/2017 8:36 PM

The 490W rating of the ballast is way smaller than the 1000W rating of the lamp, so no.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40058
Good Answers: 1598
#2

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/18/2017 9:56 PM

See #1

Does the Bulb have to match my Ballast?

The bulb wattage must be matched to the ballast. A smaller bulb will usually be fed a wattage close to what the proper bulb takes, and will generally overheat and may catastrophically fail. Any catastrophic failures may not necessarily happen quickly. A larger bulb will be underpowered, and will operate at reduced efficiency and may have a shortened lifetime. The ballast may also overheat from prolonged operation with an oversized bulb that fails to warm.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#3
In reply to #2

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/18/2017 10:25 PM

Thank you. I should stick with a Hps bulb then, and 490W or less?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40058
Good Answers: 1598
#4
In reply to #3

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/18/2017 11:01 PM

I believe so.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#8
In reply to #2

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/19/2017 12:53 PM

Thank you for your input. I ordered a 400w sodium bulb, a used one so I hope it doesnt fail me, but not in a position to invest tons of money.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40058
Good Answers: 1598
#9
In reply to #8

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/19/2017 2:20 PM

Welcome. Good luck.

Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1141
#5

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/18/2017 11:26 PM

Lights are designed to work with a specific ballast type and size....among metal halide bulbs there are several different types of ballasts....the ballasts are not interchangeable neither are the bulbs....

..."HID lamps are negative impedance devices. This means that unless controlled, the current would continue to increase, causing the lamp to fail almost instantly after starting. For this reason, a ballast, which is a current-limiting device, must be used with every HID lamp. The ballast serves three functions. It provides the proper starting voltage to establish the arc. Second, it supplies the proper voltage to operate the lamp. Third, the ballast limits the lamp current to a level prescribed by the lamp manufacturer for the particular type of lamp being used. Ballasts must always be matched to the particular lamp type, wattage, and line voltage being used. Never use a ballast for any lamp, installation or purpose other than that for which it has been specifically designed."...

..."Lamps should be checked to be sure the proper lamp type is being used, according to the information on the label of the installed ballast. Many lamp types currently offered, such as metal halide and high pressure sodium lamps, are physically interchangeable, but not electrically interchangeable."...

..."Remember that although mercury lamps operate at the same wattage as metal halide, a mercury-rated ballast will not start and operate a metal halide lamp due to the differences in required starting voltage. In addition, operation of metal halide or mercury lamps on high pressure sodium ballasts will result in over-wattage operation, causing early lamp failure."...

Ballast and Starter Test Ballast and starter tests for high pressure sodium fixtures: 1. Install a known good lamp. 2. If the lamp lights normally, you have just corrected the cause of the problem. 3. If the lamp does not light, disconnect the starter and install the specified TEST LAMP. 4. If the TEST LAMP lights, the ballast is good and the starter is inoperative. Replace the starter. 5. If the TEST LAMP does not light, the ballast is inoperative. Replace the ballast. To ensure proper performance, also replace the capacitor and starter.

https://unvlt.com/pdf/literature/troubleshooting/Troubleshooting%20and%20Maintenance%20for%20HID%20Lighting.pdf

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#15
In reply to #5

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/20/2017 10:12 AM

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#17
In reply to #5

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/20/2017 12:16 PM

So do I have to use a 490W, or can I go with a 400W bulb...I ordered a used 400W, but now concerned it isnt going to work...excuse the ignorance but this is the only way one can learn...

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13882
Good Answers: 155
#18
In reply to #17

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/20/2017 1:45 PM

You can probably use the 400W bulb with the 490W ballast a lot better than you could have used the 1000W bulb. This way you will not burn out the power supply to the bulb.

Good luck. Please do hang around, and let us know how things turn out.

Who knows, you may find some of our blathering useful at some point.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#21
In reply to #18

Re: HPS Ballast with metal halide bulb

11/20/2017 2:01 PM

I will certainly let you know.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain, and now disconnecting ["brexit" - ugh] as Little England and Wales (not too sure about Wales bit, either). Kettle's on.
Posts: 26788
Good Answers: 703
#6

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/19/2017 12:16 PM

A simple telephone call to these people can provide all the answers and more.

The amount of telephone use seems to be decreasing in reciprocal proportion to the number of them on the planet.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#7
In reply to #6

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/19/2017 12:50 PM

Well, thanks,but it is an out of country company, and I was unable to find a local usa phone number. I really would rather hear from the experts, but you really need to tone down your way with words. I said I was new at this, and I am just trying to learn. Be nice, thanks.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain, and now disconnecting ["brexit" - ugh] as Little England and Wales (not too sure about Wales bit, either). Kettle's on.
Posts: 26788
Good Answers: 703
#11
In reply to #7

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 5:27 AM
  • The Canada/USA border is just about the longest between any two countries in the world, and also one of the friendliest in the world, according to reputation.
  • The nationals both sides of the border speak the same language, more or less.
  • The nationals both sides of the border drive on the same side of the road.
  • The nationals both sides of the border use the same electrical fittings.
  • Etc.

The need for a single-country solution was not revealed in the original post, and nor was the country in which a solution was required to be constrained.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1141
#10
In reply to #6

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/19/2017 3:02 PM

You go-girl

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain, and now disconnecting ["brexit" - ugh] as Little England and Wales (not too sure about Wales bit, either). Kettle's on.
Posts: 26788
Good Answers: 703
#13
In reply to #10

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 9:37 AM

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13882
Good Answers: 155
#14
In reply to #13

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 10:03 AM

P.W.! I think you have just been handed your cheek! Best to put your tongue back in it at this point. Good day, mate.

Good on you for trying to help, as some of us would have simply told GoGirl to connect the bulb to an arc welder, and see if it lit up.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#12

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 9:16 AM

P W Slack, is, one of the, " Experts " .

The way to get the " Experts " here to help you is to respect their opinion, whether or not you agree with them, be glad that those that are still working and that those that are retired are taking time from their schedules to assist.

I know they don't have to help, but something within them drives them to lend a helping hand. I don't know what it is, but gosh I sure appreciate it.

Maybe someday, I can follow in their generous example and help someone in a similar fashion.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#16
In reply to #12

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 12:09 PM

And maybe to help those who are just learning is to actually help instead of telling me to call someone...oh I am sorry, over your head it seems? Give me a break...could it be you feel the desire to put this girl in her place? Know what? I will go elsewhere...clearly you are just here to insult others...

good day

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#20
In reply to #16

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 1:56 PM

I'm sorry you're not understanding the information that the engineers have provided.

I am not an engineer, but this is what I understood them to say,

A. If you use a bulb that is higher rated than the ballast ( bulb = 600 watts / Ballast = 500 watts ) , the ballast will burn out.

B. If you use a ballast that is rated higher than the bulb ( bulb = 500 watts / Ballast = 600 watts ) , the bulb will burn out.

If a Ballast is rated for 490 watts, then you need to use a bulb that is rated for 490 watts.

Some bulbs require that a starter is used.

This is what a starter does : inside of some bulbs there is a gas & inside some bulbs there is a gas and an extra filament.

Now you know that a gas is composed of molecules and when those molecules are heated they move faster, much in the same way that water, when heated, boils. Think of the word " boils " as the reaction.

A reaction is created when molecules move faster ( a change in state from stationary to an excited state )

Think of the situation of the boiling water & the gas in the bulb. Heat is applied to the water and the reaction is that the water " boils ". Electricity is applied to the bulb, creating heat and the gas molecules move faster.

In the situation with the bulb, electricity is applied to the bulb, the primary filament heats up, the heat causes the gas molecules to move faster, this action causes the secondary filament to heat up and the reaction is light is produced.

In some devices, like a fluorescent bulb there is no second filament, the gas is excited and an Arc is created, that is to say, inside the bulb electricity flows from one point or side of the bulb, to the other point or side of the bulb. The fluorescent gas carries the electricity from one side to the other, the gas molecules move faster and the reaction is light.

All of this happens in the blink of an eye, usually in 1-2 seconds.

I saw a video on YouTube, where they show slow motion photography and you can see it happen.

This is my understanding of the process. If I have left anything out, or if I have made a mistake, I welcome those with a better understanding to critique my work.

When my work is criticized, I appreciate that, it helps me to learn.

And that is part of the reason I am here. I have a desire to learn and in the process of such, I will gain a better understanding of things and the world around me.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#22
In reply to #20

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 2:10 PM

I didnt say I didnt understand...but this last explanation was a lot more help then the other ones. It would have been nice if this was explained this way the first time.

I said from the beginning I was new at this...never claimed to be anything but ignorant to it. So next time, perhaps you can scale down your response to being helpful versus insulting.

thank you, now I will order the correct bulb.

wish I would have known this before I purchased the 400W...

but hey, at least I wont have catastrophic results...

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13882
Good Answers: 155
#23
In reply to #22

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 3:04 PM

You ought to try the 400 W bulb as an experiment. I expect it might burn out before its time, but it really should not draw more power just because the ballast is rated a bit higher.

The 400 W defines the electrical characteristic of the bulb. This means that if rms single phase voltage X is provided, the current will be 400/X. I suspect your 490 W ballast has more current delivery capacity than is needed by such a bulb.

HID Lamps operate by heating a filament to the point there is sufficient heat to produce mercury-sodium vapor. This vapor supports a low pressure (diffuse) arc between tungsten electrodes. It is the warmed up characteristic of the lamp that determines the current carrying capacity at a given supply voltage. To establish this low pressure arc, there needs to be a sufficient thermal ionization in some space inside the lamp to start current flow, thereby inducing ionization of the vapor. Does that help make things clear as mud?

A bigger capacity lamp operating on a smaller rating ballast will not reach proper operating point, and will full load the supply (perhaps), or just not light off. Most likely, it will just sit there and flicker, and if it did light off, it will severely overload the ballast resulting in thermal failure of the supply, or a circuit trip on the MCC.

If the lamp is under-powered for the ballast, the ballast may tend to operate at a slightly higher output voltage than in the match case, but this should really harm the lamp much at all. Remember the output current is determined by the impedance of the warmed up HID lamp.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#24
In reply to #22

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 3:38 PM

That, at times, can be part of the problem when going to an engineering website to ask questions.

Engineers, by way of training, are taught to think at a high level, i.e. Physics, calculus etc.

The expectation is that the question asker should be able to present the question in a manner subjective to the criteria of the forum.

I have observed that the majority of the engineers here can and do operate in the capacity of scientist, professor,lecturer and mentor.

These qualities, above all separate cr4 members from from other websites.

From my own personal experience, I have been to sites where if you ask a ( in your perspective ) ( to the best of your ability ) well thought out question, they will beat you down like you are a complete moron, in order to satisfy their dysfunctional ego.

Whereas on this site, they try in earnest to provide you with a path to understanding, allowing that you will do plenty of the legwork yourself.

That, in itself, is what separates this site from all of the others. These people want to help, they don't get paid, they don't win a prize, they don't get their name in the paper or on some billboard.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13882
Good Answers: 155
#19

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 1:47 PM

https://unvlt.com/pdf/literature/troubleshooting/Troubleshooting%20and%20Maintenance%20for%20HID%20Lighting.pdf

Maybe you will find this information useful before you get that 400W bulb in.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#25
In reply to #19

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 4:19 PM

Thank you, that really helps me understand the whole concept and the necessity to know what is what. I am disappointed that the 400W is not what is required, and I am hoping I can either return the lamp or find a 490 without breaking the bank.

I really appreciate the help. I don't mean to get all "upidy" but I am trying to learn on my own, and electricity is nothing to mess with. I would rather have it in writing so I can go back to it, as well. This was a very thorough explanation.

More to come!

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13882
Good Answers: 155
#26
In reply to #25

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 4:31 PM

http://www.howard-lighting.com/Documents/ProductLiterature/HIDLampServiceGuide.pdf

It does appear the 400W lamp will work with the 490 W ballast, but make sure the lamp voltage rating is more or less appropriate to the ballast output voltage (for the struck or on condition). This lamp will not last as long as the perfect one would, as the ballast may be able to push the lamp past its normal operating point slightly.

Does this make better sense?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#27
In reply to #25

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/20/2017 6:25 PM

If you really want to understand, " the whole concept ", here is some homework :

Go to Wikipedia :

1. Electrical ballast.

2. Filament - cathode.

3. Power factor.

4. Voltage drop.

5. Voltage spike.

6. Positive & negative resistance.

7. Stroboscopic effect.

8. Quadrac.

9. Leakage inductance.

10. Buchholz relay.

11. Transformer oil.

12. Polychlorinated biphenyls.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1141
#28
In reply to #25

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 3:28 AM

The 490 watts is probably the input, you need to look at all the information on the ballast...these lights all come in standard sizes, there is no 490 watt bulb....common sizes are 250 watts, 400 watts and 1000 watts....so undoubtedly your ballast is for a 400 watt bulb....It takes somebody who knows what they're doing to troubleshoot these lights, not a job for a layperson such as yourself...If you just change the bulb and it works you lucked out...These lights are expensive and they last a long time, but when they do stop working it can be any one of the components or some combination....

https://platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Ballast-High-Pressure-Sodium-Core-Coil/Philips-Advance/71A8453-001D/product.aspx?zpid=520745

Data sheet

https://media.plattstatic.com/Products/305FC9F8-9F0E-47B6-B310-CFDB7757A406/305FC9F8-9F0E-47B6-B310-CFDB7757A406.pdf

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
3
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 4597
Good Answers: 168
#29

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 10:57 AM

I wrote a note on this a couple of days ago, but apparently got sidetracked and didn't submit it...

There is no longer any real reason to replace any HID lamp with another HID lamp! Huge advances have been made in LED technology, and the costs of high-power LED lamps have dropped dramatically.

Current LED lamps produce a much higher quality, whiter light, using 1/5-1/10 as much energy as HID lamps, and come on at full brightness instantly, while HIDs take several minutes to reach full brightness. If you turn off an HID lamp, you have to wait something like 15 minutes before turning it on again, while LED lamps can be turned off and on at will.

In our California plant, the energy to run a 400 Watt HID lamp costs over $200 a year, when used 8 hours a day, 20 days a month. The energy to run a comparable LED lamp is between $20 and $40. Obviously I don't know how much your energy costs, so 'your results may vary'.

HID lamps normally last a few years, while LED lamps normally last a few decades!

Only a few years ago, High powered LED lamps were hundreds of dollars. While there are still companies charging prices like that, You can now buy (for example) a 300 Watt, 120 Volt LED lamp that screws into an ordinary medium screw base socket with no ballast, for under $40 at Home Depot, Amazon, etc.

The one CAVEAT: many HID lamps run on 277 Volts. You must check your current lamp supply voltage, and obtain lamps for that voltage, or else rewire the supply. There is so much cost savings in energy, labor, and replacement, that rewiring will be economical for virtually any permanent installation.

One last thing: since LEDs can be turned on and off at will, they can be connected using motion detectors, so they only come on when needed. In some applications, this can drop the energy cost by another factor of 5 or 10! Just make sure the motion detector is appropriately sensitive and appropriately adjusted. I hate lighting systems where I have to get up from my desk and wave my arms around every 10 minutes to get the lights back on!

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13882
Good Answers: 155
#30
In reply to #29

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 11:36 AM

Even in Lubbock, Texas, this trend in the work place is very evident. Our barns are brighter and this is a Godsend.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1141
#31
In reply to #29

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 2:34 PM

I agree....but it depends on other factors if this would be the better option for you...

http://www.bulbs.com/product/AFD110U641KSBSS

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 4597
Good Answers: 168
#32
In reply to #31

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 4:16 PM

Gogirl did say she didn't want to spend a lot. $470, in my book, is a lot for an LED light fixture, even for one intended for permanent outdoor installation!

Of course she did not say whether this is an indoor or outdoor installation, or give any other details about her needs or intentions, so we can't be sure...

...but thinking of long term cost, energy use, and environmental impact, LEDs are currently the best available, to my knowledge.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#33
In reply to #32

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 5:11 PM

I thought at one point I did say this is for indoor growing.

Thank you for all your help, I am waiting on a new bulb, a 430w HPS...AND THEN inwill have an electrician be aure the ballast and lamp are wired corrctly and compatible.

Will be back with an update.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 4597
Good Answers: 168
#36
In reply to #33

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 5:42 PM

If you did, I didn't see it...

NOW, since you've said it is for growing, and assuming that by HPS you mean High Pressure Sodium, then this is an especially poor choice. Sodium lamps emit mostly yellow light, which in the primary colors of light means red plus green, with very little blue. The green portion of that HPS light does not exist, as far as plants are concerned; they only "see" the red portion.

Most plants are green, because they reflect green light. If they reflect it, that means they DON'T use it. Plants use the red and blue sections of the spectrum, but not the green. You can save another 1/3 on energy if the lights don't produce any significant amount of green light. Look up "growing plants with magenta light", or something equivalent.

Your plants won't grow well due to the lack of blue light, with HPS.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Power-User
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 304
Good Answers: 28
#42
In reply to #36

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/23/2017 3:51 PM

It would indeed come as quite a surprise to all of the people who have been growing their 'herbs' under HPS lights, some for the last 30 years, that their plants won't grow well under HPS. They do. Outstandingly well in fact.

There are also hybrid 'grow' HPS tubes available from all of the major manufacturers that have an improved spectrum over the standard HPS, but experience suggests that even a standard HPS produces excellent results if used correctly.

__________________
paulusgnome
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 4597
Good Answers: 168
#43
In reply to #42

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/23/2017 7:07 PM

Of course you are correct. I intended to say "... as well..."

However, my main concern is the energy required to power those lights. It remains true that the HPS lights will require 4-10 times as much energy as appropriate LED Lamps, and the cost of that energy is NOT trivial.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1141
#38
In reply to #33

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 6:00 PM
__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#40
In reply to #38

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/22/2017 12:28 AM

Maybe these kind of plants.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#41
In reply to #40

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/22/2017 5:45 AM

Mayyyyybe...but it is Michigan and I am legal. I have my card✌️

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Lost Wages Nevada
Posts: 1515
Good Answers: 51
#44
In reply to #38

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/27/2017 3:04 PM

I just bought one of these in the 300 watt size for my Orchids. The tiny window in my bathroom wasn't letting in enough light so I supplement with the LED lamp. It is a VIBRANT pink glow.WOW!!! I couldnt imagine a 1000 watt fixture!

__________________
Though it does seem he frequently has a Swiss Army knife or Leatherman and a roll of duct tape with him.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Lost Wages Nevada
Posts: 1515
Good Answers: 51
#34

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 5:11 PM

As long as the ballast is operable, the 400 watt lamp is almost perfectly sized for the 490 watt max of the ballast. Remember, the rating on the ballast is the MAX wattage and I have never seen a 490 watt rated lamp. That ballast was probably designed for a 400 watt bulb.

There are a lot of newer electronic ballasts that will light both HPS or MH bulbs.

Good luck with your grow operation!

In the future, LED grow lights are the newer thing and you can get a much wider light spectrum with LED's. Some fixtures are even adjustable for different light spectrum's.

__________________
Though it does seem he frequently has a Swiss Army knife or Leatherman and a roll of duct tape with him.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 13
#35
In reply to #34

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 5:28 PM

It says right on the ballast plate what bulb to use. So I am going to go with that.

And here is the lamp

it was not wired, but how hard can it be, green to green, etc...three wires, all matched, covered with a wire nut good and tight, and put into box neatly. Clamping the wire.

The wire was already attached to the ballast, but needed to be wired to the lamp.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 4597
Good Answers: 168
#37
In reply to #35

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 5:59 PM

OK. Now we know it is a 120V system.

See my post #36.

Here are some magenta grow lights. The original cost is twice as much or more than the $40 units I mentioned before, but you know these are (presumably) intended for the humid conditions of plant growing, and since they produce no green, they should use less energy (I didn't verify that!).

Send that HPS back, or give it away, together with the ballast! You'll save the cost of the LED lamp and fixture in only a few months.

And you are right: White to White, Black to Black, and Green to Green or chassis.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19472
Good Answers: 1141
#39
In reply to #35

Re: HPS Ballast with Metal Halide Bulb

11/21/2017 8:18 PM

typical wiring diagram....

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 44 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

dkwarner (5); Gogirl (11); James Stewart (6); lyn (3); Original_Macgyver (2); Paulusgnome (1); PWSlack (3); SolarEagle (6); tonyhemet (6); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Plant Availability Factor in Thermal Power Station   Next in Forum: MCOV Rating of LA

Advertisement