CR4® - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®


Previous in Forum: Anti-matter, Black-holes, Sun's Energy, and Gravity Theory   Next in Forum: Consultant
Close
Close
Close
36 comments
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598

More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/22/2017 11:18 PM
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#1

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/22/2017 11:32 PM

What is polluting about light....more light is a good thing....more light = less crime

I'd say darkness is polluting...

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
3
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20033
Good Answers: 753
#2
In reply to #1

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 3:51 AM

Maybe if you were to see the stars from a remote mountaintop, you'd say something else.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#9
In reply to #2

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 7:39 PM

Yeah like I've never seen the stars....there's still plenty of dark spaces to lurk in and stare at the sky.....and howl at the Moon....

https://www.livewatch.com/watch-live-astronomy-cams-and-resources

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#10
In reply to #9

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 11:22 PM

These data are not consistent with global scale energy reductions but rather indicate increased light pollution, with corresponding negative consequences for flora, fauna, and human well-being.

Apparently This Matters

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#12
In reply to #10

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/24/2017 3:34 PM

Off Topic????? Really??

Say goodnight to starry nights

Here's another!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#15
In reply to #12

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/24/2017 11:05 PM

Yeah if you leave the shutter open long enough you can make any lights look brighter....

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#16
In reply to #15

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 2:39 AM

You may need this.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 20033
Good Answers: 753
#17
In reply to #16

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 4:30 AM

Or one of these?

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#18
In reply to #17

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 10:43 AM

The term neo-Luddite Wikipedia comes to mind.

But I'm not sure it fits, exactly.

Perhaps, Denialism is better.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#19
In reply to #18

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 11:15 AM

I guess you would have everyone walk around with torches....sure they'll probably end up burning the neighborhood down...but it's a natural light, so it's all good...

You see Mr Edison the problem is it's too glary....the candle light, is a natural light...

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#20
In reply to #19

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 11:46 AM

You are being both contrary and stubborn.

We're not discussing global warning here. We are discussing a technology which is being over sold, over used and incorrectly used.

It's like a kid with a new hot car. He's going to have to get two or three speeding tickets before he learns to use his car correctly.

Nobody said LED lighting was bad, if properly used.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#24
In reply to #20

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 9:56 AM

Just an observation :

Why is it, when ANY topic is being discussed, Lyn's other point of reference, is Global Warming ?

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#25
In reply to #24

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 10:04 AM

That is absolutely NOT TRUE and I resent your implication!

It is also extremely rube to refer to me in the third person when I am a part of the discussion!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#26
In reply to #25

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 11:10 AM

Lyn, always throwing in the term " global warming " whenever you're discussing something with these guys doesn't help you.

I hate to see them push you aside like a bully in a sandbox.

You've got to come up with a new game plan.

They are well practiced in routing your path, and they do it with relish.

Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#28
In reply to #26

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 12:28 PM

It seems that personal attacks have become the favorite tool of those defending an indefensible position.

Push away.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#33
In reply to #28

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 3:47 PM

What no Trump reference?

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#29
In reply to #24

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 12:38 PM

Wait wait wait.. don't go leaving politics out of that statement.

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19135
Good Answers: 341
#35
In reply to #9

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/27/2017 1:41 PM

Someone needs to stop Tom Bodet...

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#3
In reply to #1

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 8:32 AM

Baaah. To much is too much.

Let it be too bright I'm prison.

.. keep a nightlight on and don't look under you bed.

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
4
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5223
Good Answers: 622
#4
In reply to #1

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 9:58 AM

There are a few problems with too much night time lighting, LED lighting in particular.

LED lighting, i.e., white LED lighting, is broad-spectrum lighting that has emissions across the entire visible as well as the near-infrared spectrum. This lighting creates a tremendous amount of sky glow that makes studying the night sky increasingly difficult.

1. Seeing the night sky. Now, it's fine if you don't care about stars, or planets, or galaxies, et cetera. Some of us do care, and white LED lighting is a real pain. But you might care about Earth-killer asteroids, and sky glow makes it difficult to see asteroids when they are still far enough away where we can do something about them. Once they are bright enough to see in spite of sky glow, they might also be too close to bump them into an orbit away from the Earth. (Granted this is not a probable occurrence anytime soon, but it is possible.) Astronomers would prefer than low-pressure sodium lighting be used. It's not expensive, and the monochromatic light can easily be filtered out when doing astrophotometry and astrophotography. Astronomers also would like to see 'full cut-off' light fixtures be used. These fixtures shine light on the owner's property while blocking it from the neighbor's property and also block it from shining up into the sky.

2. Road glare. As white LED proliferates, a lot of businesses - particularly gas stations and convenience stores - think more lighting is better. But actually, they create so much glare that anyone driving by has more trouble seeing the road. This is particularly true for aging drivers who are more affected by stray light causing a loss of contrast and by forward lighting that strikes their cataracts and causes distracting halos in their vision. (Yes, the answer to that is remove the cataracts, but cataracts have to 'ripen' over a few years before the surgery is performed.)

3. Nocturnal animals. A lot of wildlife is nocturnal and depends on darkness at night for survival. Anyone living in Florida should know about the Loggerhead Turtles and the lighting regulations put in place along certain shorelines to help them survive. Bird migration is also affected by excessive sky glow.

One last note -- many studies have shown that more light = more crime, not less crime. Bright night lighting attracts crime, rather than discouraging it.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#6
In reply to #4

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 12:05 PM

The light enables crime to be captured on all the video cameras, that leads to criminals being caught more often, which leads to fewer criminals on the street, which leads to less criminal activity...

Don't get the fascination with sea turtles, other than they are good for soup....but as you can see the turtle population is booming....

http://www.starfl.com/news/20171122/state-green-sea-turtle-nest-numbers-hit-record

I guess it won't be long before we'll all be eating turtle soup again....yay...bright lights no effect here

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#7
In reply to #6

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 1:25 PM

Neither bright lights, nor logic, affect some of the blind.

Happy Turkey Day.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5223
Good Answers: 622
#8
In reply to #6

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 1:42 PM

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-earth-artificial-light-night-darkness-20171122-story.

Go ahead, please, put up more outdoor lights and run them bright. I want all the light pollution and crime to be somewhere that I'm not.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#13
In reply to #4

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/24/2017 7:26 PM

I guess we should get rid of all that pesky cloud cover as well?

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#14
In reply to #13

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/24/2017 7:51 PM

Tomorrow night it will be cloudless (or the night after) but the light pollution will still be with us, just like global warming.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#5
In reply to #1

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/23/2017 11:01 AM

Your comment is not surprising.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#22
In reply to #1

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 3:25 PM

Security lighting can be counter-productive. Turning off lights halved the number of thefts and burglary in Övertorneå Sweden. [1][2] A test in West Sussex UK showed that adding all-night lighting in some areas made people there feel safer, although crime rates increased 55% in those areas compared to control areas and to the county as a whole.[3]

In the early seventies, the public-school system in San Antonio, Texas, began leaving many of its school buildings, parking lots, and other property dark at night and found that the

no-lights policy not only reduced energy costs but also dramatically cut vandalism.[4]

Bright, unshielded floodlights often prevent people from noticing criminal activity, and help criminals see what they are doing. [5]

While adequate lighting around a physical structure is deployed to reduce the risk of an intrusion, it is critical that the lighting be designed carefully as poorly arranged lighting can create glare which actually obstructs vision..

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#11

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/24/2017 12:01 AM

Here is something interesting :

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#21

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/25/2017 12:13 PM

Everyone remembers back in the day when you would pull into a filling station at night that was so brightly lit it was like daytime at the pumps. While it may be nice. It's more than what's needed.

Finding a business or a street with dim lights is both refreshing and welcome in my eyes.

A car battery and a single solar panel could keep most properties well lit.

... my sister's neighbor was on his roof with a leaf blower at dinnertime... Some people don't care about ambiance..

(Yes on his roof)

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#23
In reply to #21

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 9:50 AM

( Yes on his roof )

So, he was on, " His " roof ? So, so what's the problem ? Who's dinner time was it ?

Everyone has a different schedule and priorities.

The story would be interesting if he was on his roof in his birthday suit turning summersaults.

Sounds like a selfie storytheme where people publish a second by second play by play of everything going on,,,, like anyone cares.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#27
In reply to #23

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 12:23 PM

I'll elaborate. He apparently does this regularly... Daily at times.

Inour case the "leaf blowing" (didn't see leaves) went on for over an hour.. up and down with a loud commercial backpack style unit.

Well after dark with a headlamp ..

If he looked over the fence and up the hill he might have noticed our family having Thanksgiving dinner.

Nothing wrong about that. His property.

Neighbor? Quite well to do. Educated and good upbringing. Probably has great English skills.

I know others in the burbs with similar issue.. much quieter here in the city. ..

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#31
In reply to #27

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 1:47 PM

Daily ? And with a head lamp ? Uh oh, better watch out,, sounds like he's in koo koo city.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#32
In reply to #31

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 2:08 PM

You can say that two times.

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#34
In reply to #23

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 3:53 PM

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#36
In reply to #34

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/28/2017 10:04 PM

I'm jus sayin' they might be aliens.... You have to wonder if he knows how much damage he's doing walking on the roof all the time....I bet his home owner's insurance would go up quite a bit if the agent was aware of this activity....

http://www.roofingcompaniesca.com/davis-roofing/consequences-of-walking-on-a-roof.html

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#30

Re: More (LED) Light Pollution, Not Less!

11/26/2017 1:40 PM

"Light distribution in dynamic street lighting: Two experimental studies on its effects on perceived safety, prospect, concealment, and escape"

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272494412000382

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 36 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

JE in Chicago (5); lyn (11); phoenix911 (1); SolarEagle (10); tonyhemet (5); Tornado (2); Usbport (2)

Previous in Forum: Anti-matter, Black-holes, Sun's Energy, and Gravity Theory   Next in Forum: Consultant

Advertisement