CR4® - The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®


Previous in Forum: Fastest Way to Drop Temperature  
Close
Close
Close
52 comments
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8

Foaming Agent of Soap

12/03/2017 11:39 PM

What's the chemical compound that make soap to foam. Can I have a soap which do not foam but still loosens and cleans dirt?

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Foam in Soap
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#1

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/03/2017 11:56 PM

Sodium laureth sulfate is probably the most common foaming agent used in soaps...as far as non-foaming cleaners I've found the citrus cleaners to work well...

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40050
Good Answers: 1598
#2

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 12:29 AM
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#15
In reply to #2

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 10:26 AM

Are you giving him that book as a Christmas gift ?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8
#33
In reply to #2

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 7:51 AM

Lazy people usually are the bright ones. But I am not lazy, I just had a feeling peoples actual experience were always better than books and got that humor too.Oh nothing like it.

Be sure to keep warm this Holidays. Xmas Greetings from me of course.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#36
In reply to #33

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 10:04 AM

Merry Christmas, Gut. Happy New Year too!

I expect you will not have white Christmas in the Philippines? Unless we are talking white sandy beach Christmas, and that sounds really nice.

There are several types of lazy, just like there are several types of shrimp.

  • basically lazy - never gets up off the couch
  • creatively lazy - embraces the laziness and delegates work that must be done
  • intelligently lazy - devises schemes that minimize work to obtain the same results
  • masterfully lazy - comes up with the theories, laws, statutes all others must obey and work to maintain. Sits on a throne, white or otherwise.
  • Godly lazy - merely speaks and the world comes to his door with presents.

Others are invited to add to these categories at will, but remember, it might involve at least some mental work.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8
#37
In reply to #36

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 10:15 AM

Well, Merry Xmas and happy new year too, buddy James.

Well, honestly I've been all that lazy at times.

Oh, the beaches now is not a good idea here. Sky is always grey this season and weather is unpredictable at these times. It's the season of tropical depression. I would not recommend having your vacation here in December or the "-ber" months.

Make it more fun in April, May, June where the sun shines and sets so beautiful especially if shared with, you know, in the beach.

Merry Xmas too all CR4. Have a very wonderful year ahead!

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - Hazmat - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Detroit MI, USA
Posts: 2109
Good Answers: 213
#38
In reply to #37

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 11:18 AM

Gosh, I love how the holidays bring people together.

__________________
How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life. --CAPTAIN KIRK, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain, and now disconnecting ["brexit" - ugh] as Little England and Wales (not too sure about Wales bit, either). Kettle's on.
Posts: 26782
Good Answers: 703
#40
In reply to #38

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 11:22 AM

What <...holidays...>?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#42
In reply to #40

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 11:56 AM

Did you not get the memo?

Thanksgiving

,

Christmas

,

and New Year's Day

....for most of us, then we add a couple more for the rest of us,

Hannukkah begins evening December 12, and carries on to the evening of December 20th.

Mawlid - celebration of the prophet's birthday

This Muslim holiday is celebrated the third month, the 12th day, or the 17th day, depending on Sunni or Shi'a sect, 30 Nov. 2017, or 5 Dec. 2017 on "our" Gregorian calendar. In respect, we present no image.

It would be wonderful if this year, we all celebrated in joy rather than hate or lament. These days are meant to bring peace in each heart, not merely a few.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#41
In reply to #38

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 11:23 AM

I see a tongue in someone's cheek there, maybe.

Are we talking combinatorial togetherness, or just a gathering?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - Hazmat - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Detroit MI, USA
Posts: 2109
Good Answers: 213
#48
In reply to #41

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 2:10 PM

I was referring to the level of civility you were expressing with gutmonarch, made me all warm and fuzzy inside. (could have just been nausea)

__________________
How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life. --CAPTAIN KIRK, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#49
In reply to #48

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 2:18 PM

Have some egg nog, then you really will have the "swims". Better chase that with some rum.

Hey, after all, it is the Christmas Season, and i plan to fully participate in celebrating, as I have passed through my "Scrooge" epoc.

I say we celebrate Christmas in the streets - and not by running down our neighbors in our sports cars.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#50
In reply to #48

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 8:15 PM

... it's the foaming agent.

Cozy foam

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#3

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 8:37 AM

What kind of soap... hand soap, industrial soaps (Detergents?)

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Alpha Quadrant
Posts: 150
Good Answers: 11
#4

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 12:12 PM

Many soaps will foam if added to cold water, usually under 120°F. Many industrial soap concentrate formulations include a de-foaming additive which works well where foaming is a problem.

__________________
People Living in Competition, All I want is to have my peace of mind
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6654
Good Answers: 246
#5

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 3:19 PM

Soaps and detergents foam because they are amphiphilic; partly hydrophilic and partly lipophilic (and this end tends to be hydrophobic).

The lipophilic end likes to attach to oils and grease. It would also prefer to be in contact with air rather than water. As such the action that makes soaps and detergents useful in cleaning grime, also makes it likely to foam.

__________________
Eternal vigilance is the price of knowledge. - George Santayana
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 3987
Good Answers: 177
#6

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 3:59 PM
__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#7

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 4:17 PM

There are many cleaner formulations in existence that are low foam or even no foam.

The agents are called surfactant (short for surface-active agent).

Surfactants can be anionic (negative ion in solution), cationic (positive ion), or nonionic.

Generally, nonionic detergents are less foamy than certain anionic agents such as sodium lauryl sulfate. Do you need a solvent based degreaser? They have those too.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 3917
Good Answers: 119
#11
In reply to #7

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 3:38 AM

I thought I read many years back that detergents are inherently non-foaming, and when they were first developed foaming agents were added, as users expected foam, being accustomed to soap. Probably depends on the type of detergent.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 941
Good Answers: 81
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 8:29 AM

No, the first detergents were the sulfonates (eg. dodecyl benzene sulfonate, still a mainstay of laundry and hand dishwashing formulators, followed by lauryl sulfates for personal care applications as well) both of which can foam quite a lot depending on the cation used for neutralization and the combination of detergents in the formulation. If I remember right these were developed around WWII time; it was later on in the 1950's and 60's that the ethoxylated derivatives were introduced as machine washing became popular. Most but not all of these were nonionics that tended to produce lower foam levels than the anionic sulfonates (glucosides are a corn derived product that produces LOTS of foam!!), but it was later on that actual non foaming surfactants were produced.

Note- when I worked in the cleaning products industry, we defined a non-foaming soap as one that did not create any significant foam levels when agitated in solution, and immediately collapsed into minimal surface foam that quickly went away when agitation was stopped. Even pure water foams when whipped, just think of a waterfall or whitecapped waves.

Note #2- The combination of ingredients makes almost as much difference as the choice of surfactants themselves; in some cases, even the order and method of addition changes the final results!

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#16
In reply to #13

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 10:44 AM

Thanks for the education on soaps ( foaming action of ) .

Just a question : You mention " pure water " , then waterfalls & whitecapped waves. Pure water, would not mean distilled water, but water that has a mineral content, as could be found in a waterfall or a whitecapped wave.(?)

My guess is that the type of minerals and amount in solution, along with force of agitation, creates more or less of foam and how long (time) the foam endures.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:06 AM

sulfate minerals in solution are known to lower surface tension, and ocean water has a more durable foaming action than that of fresh water falls.

This may be due to loss of amines, oils, from fish and other sea creatures. Surely, you have noticed a different odor near the sea, than near a water fall, or inland stream?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:09 AM

sulfate minerals in solution are known to lower surface tension, and ocean water has a more durable foaming action than that of fresh water falls.

I prefer rainwater... Some of the girls I had dated really enjoyed washing their hair from our well at the farm and had a noticeable difference, that they themselves pointed out...I put it to the minerals from the well water.

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:16 AM

Maybe your well water was softer than the water they were used to washing with.

Without tests, it really makes nonsense.

If the hair turned out easier to comb out, it was most definitely softer water by deduction. Case solved. Just call me Sherlock, but never call me Shirley.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#21
In reply to #19

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:35 AM

no ch1# sherlock...

They had city water... which was drawn off from Lake Michigan and then treated...

The softest water I ever felt was my cousin had bought a house that had a cistern... In the attic??? of all places ,... he told me to put my hand in the water and tell me what I feel...I put my hand in it and it was unbelievably the softess water I have ever felt to this day.

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hemet, Land of milk and honey.
Posts: 1262
Good Answers: 23
#22
In reply to #17

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:45 AM

It has been a long time since I went to the ocean, could you post a sample of that scent here so I could review it and refresh my memory ?

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:47 AM

No, but if you open a can of seaweed, a can of minced crab, and a can of shrimp simultaneously, that should provide a near approximation.

Does that help? Or it could be any hotel shower in New Orleans after Mardi Gras.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 12:03 PM

I worked with a girl who was a health nut hypocrite. She had this health water she drank, she claimed it was pure????, the company got it from deep in the ocean bottom... she added it to all her drinks, only a few drops... but added it to her soda, her Starbucks coffee, etc...

She swore by it... and asked if I'd like to try it... I did,... very salty.... more than what would be in the oceans... but I did believe they got it from the ocean bottom...

I laugh at her,... but only when she took her smoke breaks.

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 12:17 PM

At least she was getting her healthy minerals. Which part of the ocean bottom? That might be very important, as some parts are just nasty, have oil bubbling up, etc.

If near thermal vent, I would expect arsenic, selenium, sulfur, etc. and metals as well.

Maybe not the best idea after all. The smoke break, hard to say anything, as I also smoke, frequently.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 941
Good Answers: 81
#26
In reply to #16

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 12:17 PM

Actually, you are right on with your comment about the solutes- and so is James Stewart in his reply to you!

I did mean literally pure, lab grade water, since the foam is generated by physical action mixing a gas and a liquid. Any liquid and any gas will do this. The point is that extremely pure water will foam but with nothing to stabilise the air/water interface the foam collapses immediately. Your question takes it a bit further than I had meant but the surmise is correct. It's not only minerals but also the traces of dissolved organic materials (enzymes etc.) that influence the foam type & hold time.

Something you may find interesting- when making a detergent, you'd often have to consider the water it was used in! Well water tends to be hard, lake water is more soft, in the Caribbean it would be different than mid-western North America.... it could drive the lab guys nuts!

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#27
In reply to #26

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 12:21 PM

Yes, soap is soap, but how it works where is never soap (almost).

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#28
In reply to #27

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 1:03 PM

soap is not soap, can be a uuuuge mistake,... especially when your talking about CIP'ing a Ultrafiltration unit in a dairy plant.... those little polymer molecules can really raise some hell in reacting with some of the calcium salts used to standardize the milk and degrading the flux rate and fowling out the membranes.

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#29
In reply to #28

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 1:18 PM

Yes, you better not use actual soap where calcium loading is high. Soap scum on top of milk stone is not funny.

Best use the right cleaning agents for the milk stone, but one thing I did not know is the use of UF in milk plant. So, now I know it as a means to concentrate proteins and fats, with loss of lactose, minerals, and vitamins along with water. Isn't this mostly for the transport of milk solids for cheese production?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#30
In reply to #29

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 1:58 PM

That would using a acid wash prior to removing proteins with a detergent wash...

when I was involve in the dairy... I don't recall the word to describe it,... but if you get the cycles mixed... it would as I understand it,... imbed it into the surface of the metal. next to impossible to remove.

I have found and stress to the customer, I don't care if your chemical supplier is a friend of the family with multiple advanced degrees in chemistry... when it comes to cleaning Ulrafiltration units... you get people that are familiar with the process (in this case dairy processing) and the chemicals used in the process.

Some people don't care for it because their too expensive, but I always recommended Ecolab.

Instead, they would hire their family friend,... who just looks at the dirt they want to remove... they don't look at the residue chemicals used in the process... Thos that will react to their cleaning solutions.

I wrote a white paper on this about 20 years ago on my experience and what I found. Quite a learning experience... And after reading some of the responses... it brought back some pretty trying memories as I was trying to find out why the Ultrafiltration flux rate dropped 95%.

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 3917
Good Answers: 119
#20
In reply to #13

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 11:18 AM

OK thanks

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1595
Good Answers: 19
#31
In reply to #11

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 5:32 AM

.........and there is the reason why your washing machine is not operating correctly.............suds clog!!!!

__________________
TO BE. or NOT TO BE. That is the question!! The Bard
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19134
Good Answers: 341
#32
In reply to #31

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 7:38 AM

suds also don't work well for the pump out...

__________________
phoenix911
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8
#34
In reply to #11

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 8:01 AM

Oh now we are born in this era when a detergent or a soap if it does not foam it feels so unclean. Well ended up those bubbles are not the measure of how good a detergent can clean.

I have a bright idea now. We will sell detergent with the foaming compound on it and minimal the cleaning substance. i dont know if that is sane.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1595
Good Answers: 19
#35
In reply to #34

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 8:36 AM

i dont know if that is sane.

.......could always run an advertising campaign........."the better the suds, the cleaner the wash".

Remember washing powder Surf...........the better the suds the better the surf(ing)

.......it might just work???

__________________
TO BE. or NOT TO BE. That is the question!! The Bard
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2297
Good Answers: 73
#8

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/04/2017 5:15 PM

Use less soap.

What happened to Prell? That stuff was foam waiting to happen.

..

Slightest OT..

Cold water washing?! It sure doesn't work well for dishes.. so why's it recommended for laundry by so many? Oh green

__________________
High Tolerance is Beautiful
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 3987
Good Answers: 177
#9

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 12:04 AM

You can always try fine sand and good old-fashioned elbow-grease.

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 941
Good Answers: 81
#10

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 12:27 AM

The chemical compound that makes soap to foam is called......soap.

Soap is an ionic compound formed by neutralization of a carboxylic acid, usually derived from animal or vegetable sources. Other substances used for cleaning are properly called detergents, such as the SLS etc. already mentioned.

As far as not foaming, if you don't generate foam it won't foam!! Foam requires a liquid/gaseous interface, so either don't agitate it enough to create bubbles, conduct the cleaning in a non-gaseous environment (either submerged or in a vacuum, let you decide which is more practical..), or use it at such low levels that it doesn't do anything since water alone can loosen and clean plain dirt. Higher molecular weight soaps generally foam less but also have lower cleaning values.

Or you can pick a suitable detergent, such as a block copolymer, that has been designed for use in dishwashers etc. so any foam generated collapses immediately, making it any essentially foam-less product.

Register to Reply
Associate
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 42
#12

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 7:39 AM

I think, as far as cleaning goes, foaming has become a marketing thing-- it is bells and whistles-- just makes you feel like something's happening. Detergents (soaps incl.) just break the surface tension tendency of water to make it a better "washer". So, yes, you can have a detergent that cleans dirt with little to no foaming.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#14
In reply to #12

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/05/2017 9:46 AM

Also, the idea of cleaning in general is to suspend small hydrophobic particles and oils in micelles where the hydrophilic part of the detergent is sticking out toward the water, and the hydrocarbon like tail is aiming at the hydrophobic material.

Now if we could just get those surfactants to point at the mad dogs, we would have it made.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#39

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 11:21 AM

Here you go:

This is not a product endorsement, just a point about how in some instances, ultrasonic agitation is essential to a preferred cleaning result. This micro-90 appears to be a relatively non-hazardous blend.

The fact that we see near the end of the video about removing metallic oxide from tile in two swipes has me scratching my head. Obviously, this was not a relative test to no cleaner, and simply wiping with a wet water sponge.

Can it remove pesky concrete like scale from heat exchanger tubes? That peaked my interest, as basically what I have is not calcium carbonate, but is a cementum of iron-calcium-magnesium aluminosilicate, resembling clay cementum in elemental composition, a hard mineral in fact, and hard to remove except by concrete remover chemicals.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: at the beach in Florida
Posts: 19465
Good Answers: 1140
#43
In reply to #39

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 12:21 PM

Why don't they have adjustable vibration in ultrasonic cleaners, it would seem that certain frequencies would be more effective with different deposits...? ...or a sonic cleaner that did a frequency sweep back and forth?

__________________
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. A.E.
Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#44
In reply to #43

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 12:25 PM

Shhhh....you might let the ultrasonic cat out of the cleaning bag.

For all I know infrasonic cleaning might work as well or better, but I wouldn't want to be stampeded by bull African elephants.

tiny vibratory device for wearable electronics

OR, we could make a tiny little ultrasonic cleaner?

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8
#45
In reply to #39

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 12:58 PM

Oh, wow thats amazing. I wonder if there is an ultrasonic version agitation for bigger well greased thingies.

That makes a perfect dish washing technology right there. Wash the dishes in just 3 minutes or new way of washing dirty laundries. That makes alot of energy savings if its applicable.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#46
In reply to #45

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 1:28 PM

short history and tips of ultrasonic cleaning

one company's larger industrial US cleaners

So there you go.

I have not seen one someone might drop an entire engine into yet.

Another note of some importance:

The rise of sonochemistry, the art of enhancing or changing chemical reactions by way of ultrasonic agitation, appeared on the horizon not more than a decade or so ago in earnest. This can be scaled up to the size of industrial reaction engineering, so I would say it has definitely arrived.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8
#47
In reply to #46

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/06/2017 1:35 PM

Thanks for bringing this up buddy. Its a genius idea.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 767
Good Answers: 8
#51
In reply to #46

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/08/2017 11:05 PM

I don't know how big detergent and washing machine companies would think about this.

This will literally ditch their business.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 13859
Good Answers: 155
#52
In reply to #51

Re: Foaming Agent of Soap

12/11/2017 2:45 PM

US cleaners still require surfactants to assist in suspending particles that are broken away from the surface, and get them to emulsify for transport away from substrate.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 52 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

AverageJoe (1); Codemaster (2); gutmonarch (6); James Stewart (16); JE in Chicago (2); JNB (3); JPool (2); JPOWERS (1); lyn (1); Mikerho (2); MOBI (2); phoenix911 (7); PWSlack (1); SolarEagle (2); tonyhemet (3); truth is not a compromise (1)

Previous in Forum: Fastest Way to Drop Temperature  

Advertisement