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Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/10/2007 10:21 PM

In the recent earthquake in Peru, a very strange ligths appears in the sea, I did not find any consistent explantion for this phenomenon, ¿someboby can make it clear?

Ciro

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#1

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/10/2007 11:13 PM

Any photos of this phenomenon?

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#2

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/10/2007 11:55 PM

If pictures are not available, a detailed description would be helpful. Traits such as shapes, colors, motions, duration, location, time of occurance (before, after, or during the quake), brightness and so on would be important clues to what the lights are.

Also, who saw these lights? What condition were they in? What are their ages? Educational level?

What was going on in the vicinity of the lights, besides the earthquake? Where any boats or airplanes in the area?

If you get this information, you might be able to find the answer yourself.

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#21
In reply to #2

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 8:03 AM

Re your, Hendrik's and a few other's responses: I'm out of my field here, but aren't quartz crystals pizeoelectric, etc? Don't quartz crystals emit light under pressure?

This may well explain the lights, from vast veins or isolated quartz (or possibly other minerals) outcroppings, subjected to tremendous sudden pressure. Jorrie, comments?

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#3

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 1:29 AM

There was a medium big quake down Cape Town (SA) way some 28 years ago . I was approaching the mountain range. Flashes of light appeared all over the face of the mountain slope. My impression was that it were different rocks or faults that rubbed against each other and produced flint like sparks.

I suppose the same could happen under the sea.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 4:33 AM

Most likely to have been quartz crystals and the piezo effect. this has often been obsereved when earth movemets have involved quartz between hard rocks. The pressure can generate very high distarges. So producing the flashes of light.

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#6
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 5:59 AM

"quartz between hard rocks. The pressure can generate very high discharges. So producing the flashes of light."

I never came close to the rock. Similar looking rock close by definitely had quarts layers.

Will this discharges / flashes show under water as well?

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#26
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 1:40 PM

Any possibility that either there was a magma breakthrough on the crust (which should, of course, make a lot of steam) or phosphorescence from aquatic life reacting to the earthquake? What was the duration of the strange lights?

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#44
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/13/2007 8:04 AM

Definitely no magma involved. Aquatic life - very unlikely.

The flashes of light were visible while the quake lasted.

SA is quite stable. cannot remember the magnitude but some houses were damaged.

We had no idea that it was a quake.

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#5

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 5:26 AM
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#40
In reply to #5

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/13/2007 2:52 AM

Earthquake Light ?

...sounds like a new 'gentle' constipation cure.....

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/13/2007 3:14 AM

That's the cure everyones being looking for!

u no poo

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#43
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/13/2007 3:45 AM
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#7

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 7:09 AM

I'll guess (victim of male answer syndrome). Bioluminescence from the disturbance from the quake.

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#8
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 11:21 AM

Nice answer. This link mentions 'milky sea', though green wakes behind ships rings a bell. Maybe a swarm of fire-flys or something could explain light in the sky.

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#9
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 11:49 AM

My guess is that it's some form of triboluminescence from rocks being split apart. (If I was a chemical bond shorn apart, I'd yelp too!) Vermin and others mentioned seeing 'flashes of light,' rather than the continuous glow seen with bioluminescent infusoria.

You can see TL in the comfort of your own home, btw: Grab a pack of Wint-O-Green Lifesavers, shut yourself in your bathroom and let your eyes dark-adapt (kind of hard to do in your case with all that glowing brimstone and those flames licking about ). Then crunch down on one and watch the fireworks! This link shows what happens when you smash one with a hammer. Same thing happens with quartz and other minerals, so I'd be more surprised if we didn't see something during an earthquake.

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#10
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 12:14 PM

Vermin and others mentioned seeing 'flashes of light,'

PMSL - I bet it ain't nothing to do with Silicon Valley either. We don't get Wint-O-Green here, but I shall investigate my local sweet shop. It's sure to have something similar. I am tempted to empty the contents of a hi-lighter pen into my Mother-in-laws fountain one night, but I suspect that the Goldfish may be non too happy. Some chemicals can turn urine blue, so I am now side-tracked into considering what safe luminescent substances I could consume to leave my mark in unsuspecting restaurants. This could get truly hidious !

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 1:18 PM

We aim to please. You aim too, please...

Kris complies...

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 3:42 PM

That must have been a hell of a curry!

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#16
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 3:58 AM

You are truly an artist, and completely round the (u) bend. It looks like Close Encounters of the Tird Kind.

Gos, us tat spelt right ?

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#20
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 6:54 AM

I may be close to a solution. 'Slimey mushrooms' doesn't sound to appetizing though.

What the hey, I'll read about some other fool doing this stuff.

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#30
In reply to #20

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 2:53 PM

You could try one of the dessicated varieties of mushroom - At least you would get to enjoy the colors.

"We all live in a ______ _________"

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#37
In reply to #20

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/13/2007 12:19 AM

What the hey, I'll read about some other fool doing this stuff.

I think that guy needs some Special High-Intensity Training, but then again, maybe he's already been through it. Or should I say, it's already been through him?

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#39
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/13/2007 2:44 AM

OK guys, "Damn the torpedoes, Full speed ahead!" . A few beaches and swimming pools that I recall might put a whole different glow on Admiral Farragut's supposed quote.. Maybe putting something in dog food would stop people thinking they can get away with leaving dog poop on the street. Pretty hard to walk nonchalantly away from a luminous pile. In some towns you have to play pavement hopscotch, it would make the enforced game a bit easier.

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 4:40 PM

Yes Europium, the explanation I read in the newspaper mention the triboluminescence phenomenon but I can not beleave the ligth could pass at least 100 meters of water and illuminate the sky in such intensity as I see, somebody makes a video shown in TV.

CIRO

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 5:06 PM

In your original post you mentioned it lighting the sea, but you said nothing about it lighting up the sky. How was the sky illuminated? Was it from light reflected from clouds, or did the light appear to originate in the sky, perhaps looking like some kind of discharge higher up, like an aurora? There have been reports of high-altitude, aurora-like phenomena associated with earthquakes, which suggests to me that tremendous electric fields are involved. If this is true, it becomes especially puzzling when the earthquake occurs underwater - particularly under seawater which is highly conductive (and therefore would tend to effectively 'short-out' an electric field). Can you describe in some detail what you saw, and something about the conditions at the time, ie, clear sky, overcast, deep nighttime darkness, etc? Did the light have a particular color. If so, did the color change? Was the color saturated, ie, greenish or reddish? Did the glow appear to move around. Did it have shape, like streamers or curtains. Did you hear anything unusual beyond the rumbling of an earthquake, something akin to crackling or hissing sounds? Did you smell ozone?

Sorry to pelt you with all these questions, but you opened this investigation after all.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 4:10 AM

Humm, as far as I was aware, a geological process have nothing to do with electric field discharge in the upper atmosphere to generate and Aurora!! Lights, in the sea are most likely, as previously mentioned, a defensive reaction from bioluminescent critters that are just shit scared of the massive shockwaves moving thru' the water.

Either way, very interesting times..

Matty

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#27
In reply to #17

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 1:46 PM

Lightning would be one geologic and atmospheric (they are not independant if the lightning strikes the ground) process associated with the charges developed on the earth relative to those developed in the particles in the higher atmosphere.

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#31
In reply to #14

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 4:40 PM

I see the ligth from a distance of about 3000 meters from the coast, i see the reflection on the clouds, in this season the sky is completly cover by clouds, the ligths appears during the quake, there was not any report of electrical short circuit or explotion of a transformer, hundreds of persons watch the phenomenon some in coast see the ligth over the ocean by its refection in the clouds. The quake occurs at 6:40 pm it was already dark because now we are in the winter time, the color was greenish like flashes, do not appear moving around, you can see the shape in the video, the quake epicenter was about 170 km south-west from Lima, i did not hear any other sound different from the quake in fact it was not so noisy, no smell ozone, no crashing, no hissing sounds.

If the origing of ligth was in the bottom of the sea how can it pass though about 80 or more meters of water with enought intensity to reach the clouds and be reflected in such level.

I receive an e-mail that says that the responsable of this phenomenon is big US antenae that irradiate hundred of KW to the sky to make changes in the climate, it is a kind of a secret electronic missile. science fiction?

Ciro

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#32
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Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 7:00 PM

I receive an e-mail that says that the responsible of this phenomenon is big US antenna that irradiate hundreds of kW into the sky to make changes in the climate, it is a kind of a secret electronic missile. science fiction?

-----

You're probably thinking of HAARP.

Climate change? Science fiction.

Consider the power received by Earth during a major solar storm: about 5 terawatts (5e12 watts), more or less. A storm of this scale warps the geomagnetic field (all of it), produces spectacular aurorae, heats the ionosphere causing it to expand and increase the drag on low-earth-orbit (LEO) satellites, disrupts communications and GPS transmissions, disrupts power distribution grids, and a whole host of other nasty things. But the effects persist for only a few hours or days. Yet it takes about 5 terawatts dumped into the atmosphere/ionosphere/magnetosphere for several hours to pull it off. Worse yet, the Sun has been doing stuff like this to us for Earth's entire 4.5 billion-year history. Somehow a secret few-hundred-kW transmitter doesn't worry me much. Heck, they could crank it up to megawatts and I still wouldn't be concerned.

If the US wants to modify Earth's climate, for better or for worse, we're gonna have to do better than that. A lot better than that. Like maybe dump the entire US' generating capacity into the ionosphere (or whatever) on a continuing 24/7/365 basis? (We didn't need all those coal reserves anyway...) A couple hundred kW a threat? A couple hundred kW vs five terawatts? Five terawatts to produce only temporary effects? I think maybe we have a ways to go. It'll be a few years yet before we're in a position to compete directly with the Sun.

Science fiction? Science fiction.

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#104
In reply to #14

Re: Earthquake and ligth

11/13/2007 11:22 PM

the entire sky lit up, coming from the direction of the ocean. I was about 3 miles inland. The city lights all went dark, then the sky lit up. The night was overcast. I live 240 kms north of the epicenter in Lima. This weekend i was closer to the epicenter in a very rural setting, and the people described the same thing. So the luminescence was seen along the entire area that suffered from the earthquake. Still wondering what it was.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/11/2007 6:23 PM

En tu poste original lo mencionaste que encendía el mar, pero no dijiste nada sobre él iluminación encima del cielo. ¿Cómo el cielo fue iluminado? ¿Era de la luz reflejada de las nubes, o la luz aparecía originar en el cielo, quizás pareciendo una cierta clase de descarga más arriba para arriba, como una aurora? Ha habido informes de a gran altitud, aurora-como los fenómenos asociados a terremotos, que sugiere a mí que los enormes campos eléctricos estén implicados. Si esto es verdad, llega a ser especialmente de desconcierto cuando el terremoto ocurre bajo el agua - particularmente debajo del agua de mar que es alto conductora (y por lo tanto tendería con eficacia "corto-hacia fuera" un campo eléctrico). ¿Puedes describir en un cierto detalle qué viste, y algo sobre las condiciones en ese entonces, el IE, el cielo claro, el revestimiento, la oscuridad profunda de la noche, el etc? Hizo la luz tienen un color particular. ¿Si es así el color cambió? ¿El color fue saturado, IE, verdoso o rojizo? Hizo el resplandor aparecen moverse alrededor. Tenía forma, como flámulas o cortinas. ¿Oiste cualquier cosa inusual más allá del rumbling de un terremoto, algo relacionado con el chisporroteo o de sonidos que silbaban? ¿Olías el ozono?

Please pardon my bad Spanish...

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#24
In reply to #13

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 10:55 AM

Ciro,

I was able to find the following video made during the quake:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=785_1187330230&p=1

40 seconds into the clip it shows a very bright blue flash, in the distance during the earthquake in peru. Is this representative of what you saw?

Sam H.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 12:32 PM

Ciro says the flash occurred at sea and lit up the sea and the sky. Lima is on the Pacific coast and so did this flash occur west of the city, at sea? If some other direction (in the video you can't see the ocean and you can't tell which direction the camera is facing), the flash could have been produced by a substation transformer exploding. The shaking due to a strong earthquake could easily lead to the destruction of such equipment.

We had high winds and very heavy rains that caused a substation transformer north of here to explode. The effect was very similar - blue flash which lit the sky - except that in our case we heard a deep, rolling 'boom' from the explosion. Did Ciro hear anything possibly over and above the rumbling of the earthquake? Hello, Ciro?

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 1:50 PM

seemed kind of intense and localized for a natural geologic process related to an earthquake.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 2:01 PM

From the video I could not say whether the light was localized or not. It occurred in one part of the sky, yes, but the light could have originated all along the affected part of the fault. An aerial view would be much more revealing, and would show the extent of the source. The video does not show this. If the fault were oriented (say) radially away from the observer, the light could have extended for tens or hundreds of kilometers along the fault and yet have appeared to the observer to be localized. Satellite imagery may come to our aid here. I'll see if I locate it...

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#74
In reply to #13

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/14/2007 11:13 PM

There are a few oddly placed faults in the American mid-west. Some of these faults have been known to give off very bright light, and on more than one occasion, kill a person standing in the wrong place - cause of death: electrocution.

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#19
In reply to #9

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/12/2007 6:22 AM

The same sort of thing can be seen when a roll of self-adhesive tape (brand name withheld) is unwound in the dark. Tiny light discharges appear where the tape is pulled off the roll [in answer to the forthcoming obvious question: the photographic industry where the bulk sensitised material is done-up into black polythene bags and the tape is used to seal them; been there, done that, T-shirt, etc....].

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#70
In reply to #9

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/14/2007 1:51 PM

Yep, you are right, e-man! It's tribo-luminescence. This happen is South America a lot because there is a lot of quartz on their fault lines. Compare this to the San Andreas fault, which is granite on one side and serpentine on the other. It's a rather slippery mix.

Another thing that differentiates these two types of faults - South American earthquakes tend to give off a strong radio pulse just before hitting. This was discovered by radio telescopes in the region. Here, the difference in rock structure doesn't seem to give off any radio noise at all... So much for predicting!!! Maybe we could use a dowser it?

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#100
In reply to #7

Re: Earthquake and ligth

09/17/2007 4:33 AM

The Banana River lights up around this time of year when you splash the water around.

Tuquois Blue, bright as you have ever seen. Makes for good eatin' fun when you bite them near NASA fishies. YUM!

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#18

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 5:42 AM

ciro: i am just an independent inventor type,or "midnight engineer", but after many years pf heaaring reports of ground lightening, and bright lite flashes, near earthquake areas. i persopnally believe that quartz crystals, being slammed together with sudden and enormous force, are generating "pizio-electric" charges, on an unheard of acale. an electrical,or geological eng. might give a more technical answer however.. happy hunting, chukfinn

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#72
In reply to #18

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 11:00 PM

The faults that are associated with the Chilean Andes are notorious for this behavior - lots of quartz there. And Arecibo frequently receives radio noise (off axis) from these events.

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#22

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 9:59 AM

Ciro,

There is a lot that goes on during an earthquake, and the ocean is a complex environment. Many natural phenomena cause light. Two come to mind in this situation, with appropriate conditions.

If you have gone to sea on a ship you may have stood on the stern at night and watched the water. Several things routinely appear. One is a type of algae in the water that with the disturbance of the ship passing will phosphoresce quite brightly. One might expect that a magnitude 8 quake centered in the ocean nearby might be an even greater disturbance and cause much more phosphorescing. This might actually create the appearance of a glowing ocean.

Also, when at sea with a clear horizon at sunset (the quake was at 1821 local) there is a very unique phenomena. It is purely optical and not related to earthquakes. With a very clear atmosphere and other conditions just right, at the point when the sun drops below the horizon there appears just above the horizon a short green "flame." It lasts just a moment but would certainly qualify as a "light at sea."

If these do not explain what was seen, then provide more information.

Describe the light, how did it appear? Was it a pin-point of light, a flame above the water, a glow in the water, a bright flashing light, etc.?

When was it seen? When during the earthquake and what time of day? Was it dark out?

What was the weather at the time? How much clouds, how high, was it overcast, raining, storming?

Who saw the light? Where were they? Where were they relative to the light? More than one person? Ages? Backgrounds?

I hope this helps. I pray you and yours are well.

Best Regards,

Sam Hicks

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#23

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 10:21 AM

I've seen video of an experiment where a rock was crushed and flashes of light appeared outside the rock. Here is a link to an abstract of a similar experiment.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005AGUFM.T51B1335K

I believe these flashes were only observed in air so there may still be question of whether they can occur underwater.

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#34
In reply to #23

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 8:21 PM

Excellent. Thanks for the link.

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#33

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 8:11 PM

Let me put on record another--personal Experience:

Time =2PM UTC 15Aug1950

Place Jorhat town E94°10',N26º50'

Happened Earthquakes -many jolts continued for 30minutes. Were told later = Richter 8.2 was the max. And many were as heavy!

Saw in the Eastern Himalayan Sky --Big flashes--lightning?-but sky was cloudless.

And Big Booming Cannon-like sounds from 50>100Km away. Hills were20Km away.

Not seen/heard till this day--what were these/how.

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 9:21 PM

Your coordinates place you in southern Nagaland, according to Google Maps. Jorhat is up north. You were there when you saw these lights? Did the lights persist for the entire duration of the earthquake?

I have to say, 8.2 is one helluva earthquake. Glad you're still with us!

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/12/2007 10:47 PM

For me it looks like an earthquake. Similar flashes of blue, red were said to be noticed in the east coast of India a decade back, during a continuous storm, and brilliant flashes ultimately turned out to be lava from the ocean bed, killing thousand of persons living in a small island and totally swallowing it. It could have been a combination of storm and quake.All these happened in the course of an hour or so and noticed by persons living in the coastal area. As on date there was no trace of an island at all. This could have been one of nature's ferocity..

Sridhar

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#38

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 1:34 AM

Ciro wrote:

I see the ligth from a distance of about 3000 meters from the coast, i see the reflection on the clouds, in this season the sky is completly cover by clouds, the ligths appears during the quake, there was not any report of electrical short circuit or explotion of a transformer, hundreds of persons watch the phenomenon some in coast see the ligth over the ocean by its refection in the clouds. The quake occurs at 6:40 pm it was already dark because now we are in the winter time, the color was greenish like flashes, do not appear moving around, you can see the shape in the video, the quake epicenter was about 170 km south-west from Lima, i did not hear any other sound different from the quake in fact it was not so noisy, no smell ozone, no crashing, no hissing sounds.

-----------------------------------------------------

Comment: Bioluminescence in the ocean is seen everywhere. While there are larger creatures using self-generated light in areas too deep for surface light to reach, the more commonly observed source is right at (or just below) the surface. These are microscopic critters called plankton. They are seen at all levels of the ocean, but tend to be more dense in colder water (<5 degree C) and illuminate green on being mechanically disturbed. Naval pilots have reported (to me, actually) seeing the bioluminescent trace of a large ship passing 30 minutes earlier. Such observations reported to have been made from a height of 10,000 feet.

Ciro, you report this was a completely dark night, total overcast, low ceiling, no light sources and during the earthquake off-shore. Further that it is winter so the water is cold and the range in only 3 km. The light was green. It seems a strong argument for bioluminescence.

Furthermore, observations of bioluminescence in the ocean were reported associated with the Indonesia quake a couple of years ago. It was not as bright, but then it was a tropical area and not technically night. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/08/980824072053.htm)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Mukulhamat wrote:

Happened Earthquakes -many jolts continued for 30minutes. Were told later = Richter 8.2 was the max. And many were as heavy!

Saw in the Eastern Himalayan Sky --Big flashes--lightning?-but sky was cloudless.

And Big Booming Cannon-like sounds from 50>100Km away. Hills were20Km away.

Not seen/heard till this day--what were these/how.

------------------------------------------------------------

Comment: I couldn't identify the quake. USGS shows the following for 1950 between magnitude 6 and 8.5:

CAT YEAR MO DA ORIG TIME LAT LONG DEP MAGNITUDE IEFM NOAA 1950 02 28 1020 46.00 144.00 340 7.90 MsNOAA 6F.. NOAA 1950 05 16 1323 -15.00 -69.50 250 7.90 MsNOAA NOAA 1950 05 21 1838 -14.00 -72.00 9 6.00 MsNOAA NOAA 1950 06 19 1236 -6.20 112.00 6.80 MsNOAA .C.. NOAA 1950 08 03 2218 9.80 -69.70 8 6.80 MsNOAA .C.. NOAA 1950 08 05 1908 -1.50 -78.20 60 6.80 MsNOAA EF.. NOAA 1950 10 05 1609 11.00 -85.00 60 7.70 MsNOAA .... NOAA 1950 10 08 0323 -3.80 128.30 60 7.60 MsNOAA .... NOAA 1950 11 02 1527 -6.50 129.50 50 8.10 MsNOAA .... NOAA 1950 11 17 1928 16.50 -100.40 0 6.80 MsNOAA ED.. NOAA 1950 12 02 1951 -18.30 167.50 60 8.10 MsNOAA ... NOAA 1950 12 09 2138 -23.50 -67.50 100 8.30 MsNOAA 7C.. NOAA 1950 12 10 0250 -14.50 -76.50 10 7.00 MsNOAA 7C.. NOAA 1950 12 10 1323 -28.50 -179.00 300 7.80 MsNOAA NOAA 1950 12 14 0152 -19.20 -175.70 200 7.90 MsNOAA 6F..

NOAA 1950 12 14 1415 16.30 -98.20 50 7.50 MsNOAA TD.. .T.....

Seems unlikely the USGS would miss a 8.2 quake, but then again, it hardly matters. What you experienced is very curious, even remarkable, and I can't think of anything that would explain it. Major earthquakes being fairly rare (fortunately) and unpredictable, there could be many phenomena associated with them that are unknown.

Consider the thunderstorm. Very common, they have been observed for centuries and one would assume everything large scale about them to have been observed long ago. Yet, only 15 or so years ago something startling about them was discovered – Red Sprites and Blue Jets. They are mostly seen from orbit or high flying aircraft.

It is not unreasonable to expect earthquakes to be hiding something just as startling. You may have seen it.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sridhar wrote:

For me it looks like an earthquake. Similar flashes of blue, red were said to be noticed in the east coast of India a decade back, during a continuous storm, and brilliant flashes ultimately turned out to be lava from the ocean bed, killing thousand of persons living in a small island and totally swallowing it. It could have been a combination of storm and quake. All these happened in the course of an hour or so and noticed by persons living in the coastal area. As on date there was no trace of an island at all. This could have been one of nature's ferocity..

Sridhar

---------------------------------------------------------

Comment: Sridhar, it seems likely you have seen Red Sprites and Blue Jets. A popular focus of NASA, no one seems to understand them yet, not even a little. There is a good discussion at URL http://elf.gi.alaska.edu/sprites.html and elsewhere.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This was fun! Thanks for the opportunity.

Regards,

Sam Hicks

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#45
In reply to #38

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 12:10 PM

Mukulmahant wrote...

"Time =2PM UTC 15Aug1950
Place Jorhat town E94°10',N26º50'
Happened Earthquakes -many jolts continued for 30minutes. Were told later = Richter 8.2 was the max. And many were as heavy!
Saw in the Eastern Himalayan Sky --Big flashes--lightning?-but sky was cloudless.
And Big Booming Cannon-like sounds from 50>100Km away. Hills were20Km away.
"

-----

This earthquake easily fits the bill. NOAA records indicate that the magnitude was not 8.2, but 8.7: This was mammoth earthquake by any measure:

Catalog: NOAA
Year: 1950
Month: 08
Day: 15
Time: 1409 UTC
Latitude: 26.60 N
Longitude: 96.50 E
Magnitude: 8.70

Jorhat is located at 26.75 N, 94.21 E. From Muk's location, the earthquake occurred nearly due east at an azimuth of 94° and a distance of 230 km (~142 mi), just north of the village of Ulap Ga in the Hukawng Valley. A mountain range separates the two valleys about midway between them. This data fits Muk's description very closely.


Jorhat (left marker) and epicenter (right).

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#42

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 3:36 AM

Here is a curious link. It does get sort of relevant toward the end. I'm not running with the 'earth as a piezo-electric lighter' type theory, because the only evidence I can see seems to point at bioluminescence (with reflective effect in the sky). Good thread topic Ciro.

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#46
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 12:53 PM

Thanks Kris:

I also do not beleave that the piezo electric phenomenon is the respossible for the ligths but the question is, can the bioluminiscence be so powerfull to be watched seveal miles away and illuminate the clouds as you see in the video?

Ciro

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#47
In reply to #42

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 1:16 PM

Hi Kris,

I tend not to think bioluminescence is the culprit here. In my experience (at least) BL tends to persist for awhile after a disturbance. I've walked along a beach at night and have seen my footprints glowing for several minutes where I disturbed the little critters in the sand. Same for the wake behind my boat. The light persisted. The light in the video was a brief flash (two flashes, actually. The fainter one occurs about 34 sec into the video). It was not a persistent glow as I've seen with BL, and the light had a significant blue component. The BL that I've seen always had a yellowish-green cast. Nor would BL explain the significant intensity of the light, which, at its peak, was comparable in brightness to the headlights and street lamps also seen in the video.

If the light originated underwater, the water itself may have provided the bit of greenish cast seen in the video.

As others here have seen similar flashes occurring in mountainous areas during earthquakes, my guess is that the light has triboluminescent or piezoelectric origins. I think of the little piezo ceramic thingie in my electronic lighter and the jolt it produces. The thing must weigh less than a gram. Scale this little chunk up to something on the order of many kilometers and apply the forces present in an earthquake, and I think we're dealing with tremendous electric discharges on a scale that might very well light up the sky, IMO.

Speaking of electric discharges, earthquakes have been seen to alter the nearby electric gradient, disturb the geomagnetic field, and generate ULF and VLF radio waves.

That said, my take on this is that BL has little to do with what we're seeing here.

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#48
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 3:06 PM

Wow , Ciro & europium, this really does get more and more curious !

It's precisely the comparison between piezo-electric lighters and earthquakes that is sticking in my throat. I can accept that if you have a mass of quartzite rock, and it gets subject to sudden forces ( earthquake scale), then something is going to happen. Exactly what, I'm not sure , but I really can't see huge flames leaping up into the sky from a crevice/fault line. I've never stood in a deep level mine ( quartzite rock + extreme pressure) in the dark when there's a rock-burst going on, and wouldn't want to, but I can't imagine in lighting up like July 4th.

Unfortunately, I can't state anything that demolishes your contention. What I'd like, is to have a very large chunk of quartz and a suitable place to drop it. ( The Eiffel tower springs to mind. ).

I'm going to have to read the thread and all the links over again, and see if I can find any more about this on the web.

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#49
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 3:18 PM

Kris, maybe you'll have to make do with hiding under the duvet and pulling an old nylon vest off over your head...mmm pretty lights.

Although...I'd have thaught that down in Hades you'd have seen this stuff already or are the eternal firey pits throwing out too much light of their own?

I bet you can get some superb toast on that pitch fork?

Back on my head (as the old joke goes )

Del

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#50
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 3:29 PM

...but I really can't see huge flames leaping up into the sky from a crevice/fault line.

-----

No, I don't think this is what is happening. For my part, I'm thinking that the whole show is taking place underwater, at the bottom. That the light originates there. Ciro said the sky was overcast at the time or, at least, cloudy, and so I'm thinking that what is seen on the video is light from below illuminating the underside of the cloud deck. The light is coming from beneath the sea, or seems to be, at least, where the action is taking place. From others' research into the PE properties of granite, quartz, and various other minerals granite, especially, is seen to have strong PE properties. (Ciro, do you have any idea what the seabed is made of in your neck of the woods?) Take a big sheet of this stuff - miles of it - and suddenly rip it apart or smash it together, and I'm sure we're bound to see something.

Man, I wish I'd been there to see it! Like, from a plane. I don't like earthquakes.

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#51
In reply to #48

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 3:45 PM

What I'd like, is to have a very large chunk of quartz and a suitable place to drop it. ( The Eiffel tower springs to mind.

).

If you do conduct this experiment, I can most certainly assure you that the light you'll see will be from the torches of all those very pissed-off gens d'armes come looking for you. (Tip: That's when you nix the quartz and start hurling big wads of flaming brimstone at them.)

How much are tickets?

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#52
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 4:14 PM

In the interest on Anglo-French relations (well, OK my impatience) I played with the above 2 bits of Quartz. The piece in the RHS is perfectly transparent ( I thought wtf and just scanned it ). Next I went into the dark......with a hammer.....and reckless abandon.....

The bit on the LHS went to dust. The RHS bit was more fun. A first moderate tap got a spark, but the kind you'd get off flint. A decent whack fractured it into 2, and I got a brilliant white light all over the fracture surface - I'm sure this purely a quartz/stress thing and nothing to do with the hammer. What this proves, I have no idea. I am now going to bed with my nylons as Del suggested. After I have got this f*****g rock out of my eye.

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#53
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 4:24 PM

Hey mate,

You really need to work on your experimental technique, Kris. Like, why didn't you whack the thing while it was being scanned? I don't see any light. Do you? Just a couple of rocks, and all I have is your word (and your reputation. Just check your avatar).

All is not lost. You can still drop them on the French.

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#54
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 6:21 PM

I do lack a teeny bit of finesse, I admit, but I compensate by way of enthusiasm. In my haste I forgot that whilst it was dark here, Bluebonnet County may be basking in sunshine. Had you been in the dark and glanced in the direction of Etherville, you may have seen a brief flash in the sky. If I pour sand into my printer do you think they feed mechanism will crush it and give me more sparks ?

Oh well, at least I still have my repu............oh sh..

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#55
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 6:36 PM

Kris, can you repeat this experiment in a darkened room using a camera with the shutter held open (whacking the rock with a hammer, not the camera )? I'm gonna try this as well, but I'll need to find a good source of quartz. San Antonio sits on a great big slab of Balcones Limestone, and so quartz has to be brought in from somewhere else (Hot Springs, Arkansas is a great source of clear quartz, but HS is a good distance from here). Hmmm...some folks around here have gravel driveways...

That piece you whacked looks amorphous, not crystalline. Is it?

-e

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#56
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 7:08 PM

The bit on the LHS was sort of amorphous - it was just a chunk from some larger mass, but it has definite crystalline structure ( individual planes extend to about 3mm x 3 mm and there are 3 orientations, but a fair amount of variance). It went to small pieces when struck because it had so many existing planes to split along. The RHS was part of a single crystal, nicely see-thru. When smashed ,the crystal itself was split apart, rather than separating existing crystals (as in the first). At some moment after the hammer blow, a fracture initiated perpendicular to the direction of force. Due to ,ahem , a slightly rough and ready test, I cant really explain further. It would be interesting to do this in a controlled way, so as to see more clearly how the sample fails and where/when the flash occurs.

I don't have anything resembling a decent camera. I am tempted to get a better Quartz sample and repeat this in a more controlled way. Quartz crystals aren't to expensive ( all those 'crystal healing' types love them - it will give me great fun to buy some and then reveal what I intend to do !). Will report back if I can do something a bit more.

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 7:15 PM

Check this out. And this.

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#58
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 7:27 PM

With all of the brainpower resident at W.H.O.I. you'd think there'd be a link to a youtube demo video.

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#59
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 7:34 PM

After you...

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#61
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 8:28 PM

Nice. "Safety goggles" ? If only somebody had told me that, and if only I'd been at Cape Cod, and if only I'd had a Charpy impact tester, I might not look like that dude from the Bond film with a diamond studded face now. Doh !

Good links, and I like that one you found just down below. It seems odd there there is so little good evidence on this whole issue, and the nature of light from rock though.

I was looking at the scratches left by those rocks on my scanner. Hitting 'scan' to help illuminate it seemed like a good idea at the time. I now have a splitting headache and my face is going a funny colour.

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#62
In reply to #61

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 12:08 AM

Are you pulling my leg or were you actually injured by flying bits of rock?

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#64
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 2:14 AM

I was pulling ya leg ! Apart from my injuries, the rest was true though. The flash in that Quartz was definitely worth doing, so I'll be repeating when I can pick up some more.

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#84
In reply to #57

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 1:02 AM

Eu-

With the proper marketing we could make a fortune! Why some sap gave a dime for those two pebbles.


cr3

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#86
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 3:16 AM

Pah ! You are talking Cod sir. rcapper has, by way of assisting our beloved leader, introduced the possibility of phosene ( it's early, so my spelling muy be wrong).

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#87
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 5:15 AM

"Oh! Look at those strange lights in the sea!"

"Oh no! Itza Godzilla!"

"Oh no! Not Godzilla!!!"

"Yes, itza must be Godzilla!!!"

"But we're no where near Tokyo!"

"Oh! Then it must be the Grateful Dead!!!"

"Oh no!!! Not the Grateful Dead!!!"

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#89
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 11:42 AM

I don't follow.

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#90
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 12:07 PM

Good man ! some people are born to lead !

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#91
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 12:17 PM

Oh OK then, phosphene. I was just raising the possibility of neurological cause. It came up during a discussion about an infection that Chris Leonard has been suffering from. My reference was not quite serious, since multiple people have seen these lights at the same time ( I think). And anyway, I have been paying good money for quartz to smash. You inferred I was a sap.

<i wonder if i can fool him into thinking an apology is needed ?PMSL>

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#92
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 1:02 PM

I am so sorry.

You poor sap ! I am always way behind on the blog side. It is very frustrating. I guess I do follow. Wanna come?

Phosphene is some nasty crap. We use it in Semicon. Its one of the scarier ones. Up there with HF acid.

No it seems that this phenom has been addreseed elsewhere. I believe it was in regards to the lights assc with events such as bermuda triangle.

If memory serves (ha, right) the atmosphere is disrupted electrically, and when the earth splits gs deposits af various types combust as a result of static spark, cantact spark (minerals) power line or lightning and the result is colorful vapor flashes.

Wanna buy a rock?

My cousin took skunk scent used in hunting and sprayed it in a jar and put a label on it reading 'Saskwatch Fart' and sold em for 2-3 bucks a piece. Ha!

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#93
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 1:24 PM

LOL. Good job Del isn't here to read your double-entendres ! All that tech-speak is gonna take me a week to understand.

Thanks for the offfer of a rock but, err, no thanks. It's rather brazen of you to deal so openly old chap.

I'm currently hatching a plot to 'get' my wifes elderly dad this x-mas. Switch the contents of a bottle of after-shave for whisky or something. I wonder if he'll see the funny side when I explain why he gets funny looks. I'm just going to sit back laughing as I drink the real after-shave.

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#94
In reply to #91

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 3:16 PM

You inferred I was a sap.

Shirley he implied you are a sap?

Or am I drawing an incorrect inferrence?

What would Rene think?...and where was Crabtree when I needed him?

Or am I putting De Carte before De Horse...?

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#95
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 4:50 PM

Opinion is Polarized. You may be the root of those squares svengali and CR3, I'm just here to give an angle on it all.

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#96
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 5:11 PM

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#73
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 11:05 PM

I have a slab of pure synthetic quartz about 14" x 6" x 2". Perhaps I could be persuaded to sacrifice it for the cause?

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#76
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 11:50 PM

Is it fused quartz (annealed, like glass), or crystalline, oven-grown quartz? If crystalline, it might approximate the kind found in nature. If the latter, is there any possibility you could saw it into small pieces (noting the crystallographic axes, so impacts could be directed at different angles to them). A good lapidary saw isn't something most people have sitting in the cupboard, but perhaps you know of someone who could cut it up. Would a tile saw work?

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#77
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/15/2007 12:18 AM

Yes, I know regarding the lapidary saw, we had one until recently when my dad decided to sell all his equipment off! A tile saw would probably work - they usually use diamond blades.

I believe this is oven grown quartz. Some of it has a white blush on the surface. What do you think?

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#78
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/15/2007 12:21 AM

Also, one edge shows a lot of scalloping. Don't know what this is indicative of, thought you might know.

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#79
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/15/2007 3:55 AM

pure synthetic..

That sounds like a TV ad'...

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#80
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/15/2007 4:53 AM

Careful about encouraging - it might be the window on his cell.

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#65
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 3:12 AM

Yeh Kris with any imagination you could have smashed the quatz and a scanner with one blow...

I think you dun good...at least we know for cert that a decent light will result from the fracture.

Not quite Nobel prize stuff but bloody effective!

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#66
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 4:05 AM

....I know, it's that old hindsight thing.. Having failed with sand in the printer, I may attempt sand in the food processor (big hunking crystals might be a mistake).

More hammering will occur tonight if I can pick up some cheap crystals. One just to do it again with a better crystal, One to thwack it in a more controlled way, and another to try and capture on camera. I was thinking of filming on my brothers mobile phone camera, then trying to capture a still. I'm very cheap-skate, but do you think this would work ? His phone seems to do everything but walk the dog, so I don't really want to install all it's software unless I think this has a reasonable chance.

Is there a spoof award of Nobels like they do for other things ? If so, I want one. Maybe the 'Ignobles' awarded for terrible Science. Competition may be stiff.

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#67
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 4:39 AM

Maybe squeeze one in a vice...may get several bursts of light before it smashes. This should appeal to your Devilish persona...

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#68
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 5:22 AM

Vices ! Brilliant. Waiting for it to suddenly shatter would be excruciating fun. I may try this, but my previous flash occurred in a fracture perpendicular to the force - the crystal sort of 'pooped' as if elastic type energy busted it when the hammer recoiled. With the thing clamped in a vice it might go to a zillion bits, though the flash as pieces separated should still happen. Mrs Devil says no, I can't use the food processor.. ...Would anything occur if I stuck a crystal in the microwave ? She was not as delighted as me by my previous tin foil experiment ( 1" square of foil backed paper from a cigarette packet inner : Phht.. FLASH, BANG !!)

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#75
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 11:34 PM

Bio-luminescence is no where nearly bright enough to cause light that would be reflected by clouds. Tribo-luminescence, on the other hand is a well known and documented event.

One of the things these fault lines have in common is they're fracture and crush faults, building large mountain ranges like in Chile and the Himalayas. Slip faults such as the San Andreas move and react at borders through a completely different process that is not inclined to create the same situation and forces. Nor are the formation of minerals the same on either fault type. Fracture and cruch faults are usually rich in metamorphic rocks, like quartz.

By the way, the "piezo-electric lighters" use substances call "Perkovites," which give off electrostatic spikes when thumped by a small, spring-loaded hammer.

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#60

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/13/2007 7:53 PM

Here is an excellent website on EQLs, or EarthQuake Lights.

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#63

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 1:27 AM

I suspect that EQL's might have several different causes depending on the duration of the light and the timing in relation to the earthquake. However, most seem to be related to tribouminesence and rocks.

I wonder what would happen when quartz is crushed in the presence of magnetic rock. Would the piezoelectric effect set up an electrical field that would strengthen the magnetic field of the rocks enough to ionize the air and make it glow or flash? This might be part of what happened in Peru because the Andes are very high in iron. This may also play a role in what happened in the Himalayas.

Hmmmmmmm....

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#69
In reply to #63

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 11:18 AM

You could explore this line of thought further by crushing quartz in the presence of a magnetic field and with the field removed. Heck, I might try this myself and post pix of the results. Thanks for the suggestion, 3D

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#71

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/14/2007 10:44 PM

A good number of flashes can be seen in this video of the Peruvian earthquake. The flashes span a period of about twenty seconds, starting about 3 minutes 13 seconds into the video.

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#81

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/15/2007 9:41 AM

Opening of an under sea fissure, the tectonic plate roll, mantal expossure, you whitnessed a phenominum that is rarely seen or experienced. The actual flow of volcanic, undersea activity.

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#83
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 12:53 AM

Unfortunately, that's a subduction plate. Also, the mantel is a lot deeper than that!!!

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#85
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 3:07 AM

You're begining to tickle my orogenous zones.

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#82

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/15/2007 5:02 PM

out gassing.

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#88

Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/16/2007 9:05 AM

Now we havn't yet had any alien visuals yet reported as being the cause of such a devistating erruption. Could it be that there is a large volcanic fissure prepairing to let loose in this area? I do not have access to any deep thermal sweeps of the magma movement in this particular area. If anyone has access to thermal imagery of underground flow, it could help pinpoint a build up and possibly predict a volcanic erruption in the area. Just a thought being loosed........ 8>)

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#97
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/17/2007 12:09 AM

Volcanoes do not come from the Earth's magma. They are produced from melted rock in the Earth's crust. Just a small point.

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#98
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Re: Earthquakes and Strange Lights

09/17/2007 4:04 AM

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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