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"Green" Falling Star?

12/10/2007 5:20 PM

Last Monday night, I was driving to Laredo from Houston, Texas. At about 10:30 pm, I pulled over about halfway between the South Texas towns of "George West" and "Freer." Where I stopped was in the middle of miles and miles of gently rolling ranch land covered with scrub brush and cacti. After zipping up, I looked at the clear night sky and it was dark enough and clear enough to make out the path of the Milky Way. Anyway, as I was looking up and facing south-southwest, I saw a falling star that flashed fairly bright. I spotted it about 40 degrees up and the apparent length of its descending path was maybe a bit longer than the distance between the tip of my thumb and the tip of my index finger extended fully away from my face. This, in itself, is hardly worth mentioning (several years ago I saw hundreds of shooting stars during a Leonids event). The unusual thing about this one was that it finished bright green...like a traffic light. There were no habitations in the area, no sign of camps, no sounds, no lights of cars, no aircraft...as far as I could teel, nothing but empty sky and uninhabited land for miles, perhaps. I thought that maybe it was a piece of satellite debris with maybe some copper content. Any suggestions?

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#1

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/10/2007 5:29 PM

I am no expert, but I imagine both composition and atmospheric conditions can effect the color. I would guess the meteor you saw was from the Geminid meteor shower which is about to peak on the 13th.

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/11/2007 9:14 AM

Yes, what he saw was possibly a leader from the Geminids meteor shower that peaks this Thursday. Generally, they have a yellow color to their trails, but green may be possible.

The color has to do with the composition of the meteor as it burns up. Typically, what you see in the sky is nothing bigger than a grain of sand!

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#2

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/10/2007 6:21 PM

Hello texlex,

The Christmas Season is almost upon us, and I trust you follow that "Star", perhaps taking some gold, frankincense, and myrrh with you.

I have another thought: How far away was the event, from Area 51?

Years ago, in New Zealand's South Island, I saw an unexplained light, coruscating from orange to green, (Not a set of traffic lights), which were seen on Radar from Wellington and Christchurch, but no planes/helicopters were in the sky area at that time. (It wasn't the proverbial "weather balloon, either).

As you suggest, probably a small falling piece of "space junk", with a metallic copper content, to give that "green flash".

I don't know if you know about the "Green Flash" phenomenon, (No relation to the Marvels Comic character), seen at the instant of the sun vanishing below the horizon.

Better seen across water, it is an amazing sight, but lasts for only a fraction of a second, refer here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Flash......

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/10/2007 9:08 PM

About 8 or 9 hundered miles from area 51....

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/10/2007 9:31 PM

Yes, these have been known to travel at speeds in excess of 16,000 miles per hour, and do a right-angle turn at that speed too, without any damage to the occupants....

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/10/2007 11:42 PM
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#14
In reply to #2

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:25 AM

Uh, I hate to correct you, but actually there were four Wise-Men... Bring gold, frankincense, myrrh, and bubble-pack. And the baby Jesus like the bubble-pack the best, because, being God, when he was finished with the sheet, he could re-inflate it and use it again!

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#6

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/11/2007 2:20 AM

Hi Texlex

Looong time ago I also saw a "falling star" that appeared greenish.

But I think mine were an optical illusion.

I was stranded in the semi desert, had a camp fire going and just before I was reading something in the light of the amber parking and\or brake lights.

I am also a slight red/green confuser.

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#7

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/11/2007 2:24 AM

Hello again texlex,

I just had a further thought.

Some alcoholic and cordial beverage bottles have a green clear container.

Is it possible you had one raised in front of your eyes, and were looking through it, at the time.....

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#8

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/11/2007 5:39 AM

a few years ago I was driving in to northampton (uk) on the A43 and saw a green shooting star, unlike the ones from the recent shower this was a bright thick green streak and appeared to be going straight down instead of across. I never saw a reference to it on the news. I guessed at copper content, but would be interested to find if something else would give the same colour

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/11/2007 10:50 AM

The falling star that I saw was unobstructed by any beverage containers and I had no alcohol in my system at the time (although I have found that such conditions are great for making the world appear unusually interesting). I had been staring at bright instrument panel lights in the rental car that I couldn't figure out how to dim (Honda Accord), however, I had been out of the car for a couple of minutes when I saw the streak. It had a downward angle of about 60 degrees or more and was a relatively "thick" streak from start to finish. Though I remember the bright green finish better than what came before, I'd say the beginning was white/yellow. If I had been in a more inhabited area, I may have suspected a fireworks rocket of some sort. It seemed too far away, too bright, too brief, too fast, too straight, and too clean to be a rocket, though. I watched for several more minutes and neither saw nor heard any signs of human activity. I'm glad I saw it because it lead to me discovering that the Geminids are approaching. Now, I just need to find the nearest best place within reasonable driving distance of Houston to watch for them.

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#20
In reply to #10

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 7:53 AM

We had a comet come by a few years ago and I drove out by Rosharron on a clear, low humidity night and had a spectacular view. The other option is to head toward Brenham, depending on what side of town you are on.

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#98
In reply to #10

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/16/2007 4:33 AM

Could it have been an iridium satelite?

Look them up in the tables and see if the times and directions match. They are very precisely logged so it should be down to the second correct, if you can remember that precise.

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#99
In reply to #98

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/16/2007 10:48 PM

Do you mean an Iridium flare or the falling of an Iridium satellite?

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#101
In reply to #99

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/17/2007 1:51 PM

Iridium flares are caused by iridium satelites that rotate and catch the sunlight. Who says anything about falling?

So I can state iridium satelite or flare and it should be accepted as the same.

Flares are in the astronomical tables but when they come down it will be in the newspapers.

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#102
In reply to #101

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/18/2007 1:28 AM

Well you didn't make that quite clear did you, Mr. Poopy-Pants!!!

I don't think a falling Iridium satellite will make the pages considering they've pretty much been relegated to space junk because Motorola couldn't find a market for global cell phones - at least at the price they were asking!

It might get into the papers because some group of astronomers were having a drunken victory party, considering how many long-time exposures they've ruined by their flaring at just the wrong time!

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#19
In reply to #8

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 7:48 AM

Hi HUX.

The only element that emits a green light when it is burned is "Barium".

I happen to be a mineralogist, and one of the tests I do is to burn a peice of a mineral in a blow torch flame, the colour that is shown in the flame tells me what the predominant element in the mineral is.

Bright deep grass green means Barium.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 8:27 AM

what colour does copper give, I always thought that was green too?

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#27
In reply to #21

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 10:23 AM

I know the flux to torch weld copper is green, Don't remember what the mineral copper is.

Brad.

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#29
In reply to #21

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 11:41 AM

Copper burns green....and the mineral it's made out of is copper.

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#34
In reply to #29

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:18 PM

Hi kkjense.

There are about 60 minerals that copper is derived from. The most common is Chalcopyrite, Fe Cu S2; the next important is Bornite, Cu5 fe S4.

But copper colours a lot of other minerals like Malachite it is green, and Azurite which is royal blue. The colour does not come from the copper alone but in conjunction with water molecules and or the OH radicle. This is demonstrated very well in Copper sulphate Cu (SO)4. 4H2O, if it is heated to drive off the water it takes on a white colour.

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#36
In reply to #34

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:43 PM

Sorry. I didn't mean "copper" as in pipe...I just remember burning copper dust back in a chem lab when we were doing spectral analysis. I have no idea if it was pure or if that's even possible.

I guess the only way of "really" knowing what the streak of light was coming from would be a spectral analysis...the doppler shift would even reveal a relative speed!

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#129
In reply to #8

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

10/28/2009 4:24 PM

I just saw a green falling star, from my window facing east, 21:35 Bulgarian time. The star appeared to the south. It was as bright as green traffic light and followed a straight downward path. Its track was approximately long - 2 sec. I was amazed, as it is the first time I ever have seen a green one. That is why I immediately searched for info in the internet. I think what you've mentioned is exactly what I've seen.

Dobrinka

Bulgaria, Sofia

22:21

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#130
In reply to #129

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

10/28/2009 10:02 PM

Mmmm. If this was in Bulgaria, it's probably the reactor core from an old Soviet satellite.

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#11

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 12:00 AM

Now even the meteors are RoHS compliant!

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#12

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 12:27 AM

SSW from Freeer puts you looking pretty much over the Laredo/Nuevo Laredo metro area. NL (and the rest of the maquiledora towns) are pretty generally known as heavy polluters, to the extent that (e.g.) Laredo is considered exempt from EPA guidelines, as it is assumed that the pollution is coming from our neighbors to the South. If I recall correctly, NL is traditionally a heavy smelting town, so copper and sulpher traces are bound to be high in the area, which might help to explain the greeninsh tint. The big question of course is why you should ever leave the Houston area. If you want green atmosphere, you need go no further thar Pasadena.

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#13

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:22 AM

Hi telex, the green doesn't have to come from copper, but the plasma interaction of the atmosphere and the composition of the shooting star.

Back home we would go on snow camp outs putting our sleeping bags on lawn chairs and watch shooting stars and satellites.

They can come in many colors and a few change color. (most are reds and yellows)

When they change colors and do ninety degree corners (and you are sober) it does make you wounder.

Brad

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#15

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:30 AM

I've made that drive a number of times myself enroute to Zapata.

One possibility is the number of oil/gas wells in that vicinity. Some of these still 'flare off' and some of these pollutants could have caused this green flash I guess.

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#40
In reply to #15

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 3:58 PM

How do you drive from Scotland to Zapata?

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#46
In reply to #40

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:51 AM

I heard a few vague reports of ship's captains seeing an odd vessel plying the Atlantic.

They saw a ghostly object, a dinghy white in colour, a colour which I think we all agree was a suitably descriptive colour for such a vessel.

The vessel was generally only glimpsed for a moment or two, through the thick fogs which occupies those latitudes at various times of the year.

The dinghy shaped and coloured vessel was some 6 feet long, with a rower no doubt a descendant of the holy St. Brendan of Clonfert himself: http://www.stthomasirondequoit.com/SaintsAlive/id269.htm was sometimes seen furiously trying to cope with the effects of the Gulf Stream.

Encouraging him along was a tartan dressed figure in the rear playing something which made plaintive music, leaning on a large bag of Rolled Oats, which we can only presume was both used as the fuel for the journey, and to make into a paste, to prevent leakage, just in case the plug came loose.

Now you all wondered where that bath of Kris' went, refer: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/13355/Bath-Breaking-Technique

Now you know....

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#48
In reply to #40

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:31 AM

Live in Scotland, work all over the world; last 4 years been based in Houston. this year alone worked in Colorado, Texas (Zapata), Oklahoma, Kentucky, Canada, Venezuela and the UAE (twice). On that occasion I was enroute from Houston to Zapata (closer to Bustamente if I recall correctly) on New Years Eve, 2006.

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#16

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 5:31 AM

Hi texlex.

The element that burns bright green is Barium, so the meteorite must have had some barium in or on it.

Spencer.

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#69
In reply to #16

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:24 AM

Or green M&Ms... Did you get horny?

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#17

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 7:37 AM

You are, all, wrong.

What Texlex have seen is a trafic light. No, not the one at the intersection. In that area, the trafic is well organized and controlled. The "falling star", first yellow and ending green is the signaling that Coyott-422 has reached the intermediate point D2, the water supplies are half empty, and Coyott-423 can move to IP D1.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 7:46 AM

The "falling star", first yellow and ending green is the signaling that Coyott-422 has reached the intermediate point D2, the water supplies are half empty, and Coyott-423 can move to IP D1.

Please explain what coyott-422 means, also D1 and D2, also what the water supplies have to do with anything, and to whom the signalling is sent, and who is sending that signal.

We look forward to your reply.....

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 8:28 AM

Personally I think the triffids are on their way.

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#28
In reply to #22

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 11:19 AM

If so England goes first if I remember right. Close your eyes and get into a dark place quick.

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 8:38 AM

Please explain what coyott-422 means, also D1 and D2, also what the water supplies have to do with anything, and to whom the signalling is sent, and who is sending that signal.

We look forward to your reply.....

According to some sources, there is an influx of 1 million illegal immigrants a year. They, the illegal immigrants, are coming this way to USA for the American dream, and they pay, dearly, for this.

To get into big cities, they are divided in groups. Coyote is the name of the person who leads a group. They take the money, in advance, and the amount is in the thousands range.

They might just bring the group into USA, not far from the border, or, more organized, to a big city.

From Laredo, for example, it starts an area of tens of miles of semi-dessert. If they have to cover it by foot, some might die, if not enough water. Some private organizations have created fixed points with supplies of water for those who need it. In Mexico they provide maps and hand-out brochures for the chrossing procedure.

So I created this imaginary scenario, with the groups Coyott-422 and Coyott-423, moving, in an organized manner from point D1 to D2 ….etc. And, being organized, a signaling system should be in place, isn't it?

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#24

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 8:55 AM

According to a local news source, there was a classified rocket launch that evening. A comet like object was seen in the sky from Fla to the New England states. The object was actually fuel being dumped. Don't know if this is what you saw or not.

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#25

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 9:22 AM

If you were extatic when you saw it, it was probably static elect. resulting. The coyote and d's theory were interesting. Certainly road runners will zoom by a green light.

In hawai, we saw the green flash, we were told it was the sun light piercing thru the water and then the prism effect. No, no green bottle effect, allergic to beer.

Thursday will be cloudy ...

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#26

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 9:57 AM

Enjoyed your description of a dark night and enjoyed. I had few gray nights in Anchorage, Alaska during summer that you can read the boom at midnight out in the open.

Did it strike to you that drinking and driving is not good. One of the two most iportant things may happen is to spill the drink and ruin the upholstery and the other one is very well known too.

Sometimes, the floaters in the eyes give you flashing flying objects.

Whatever it was, no one would ever know just like Area 51, the famous Rosewell incident and lots of speculations and people made money out of it and still are.

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#30

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 11:53 AM

Boron and Manganese also produce a green.

This is Boron burning.


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#31

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 12:02 PM

I also read that the color depends on the temperature of the material being "excited".

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/space/solarsystem/meteors/meteors.html

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#41
In reply to #31

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 6:00 PM

Isn't it funny, we talk about this and today I went to an open public day at my local astronomical institution in Cambridge where the speaker was Robin Catchpole who talked about light and colour in astronomy so I asked him.

The answer surprised me as he said most likely it is iron! Upon me questioning him with regards to this and the burn test we do in labs he said, outer atmosphere is not a lab and it will contaminate the burning process with other elements anyway which makes all you know from the lab tests useless.

According to him it is their experience that it is mostly iron or iron containing rock that burns green. But he adds that it is difficult to be sure as it alwasy burns up completely and the time of burning is very short so it is near impossible to do a spectrometry test on it.

Hope this confuses the matter even more

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 7:41 PM

Wow, my humble and apparently solitary observation has now been communicated far, wide, and high. Whether it was a speck of iron, copper, barium, manganese or whatever other orelike mineral or artifact, it has not flamed out entirely in obscurity. Instead, it has generated a good deal of speculation and discussion. What a forum!

I hope conditions in my area are good for the Geminids tomorrow night. Anyone planning on skywatching tomorrow night in the Houston area? I'm not sure where I would go. I have cousins who have property about 15 miles east of I-45 from Huntsville. That's probably rural enough to be away from a significant amount of the light pollution.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:14 AM

Yeah, but what about the guy with the chainsaw?

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#45
In reply to #42

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:29 AM

On the other hand, you may have seen the rare "green eggs and ham" meteorite. Did you feel like breakfast?

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#49
In reply to #42

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:37 AM

East of Huntsville should be far enough but if you have time head a little further North getting yourself East of Centreville (hitting Woodies smokehouse for some jerky). I know that it's dark and clear enough up that way.

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#70
In reply to #49

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:26 AM

Ask for his special yuppie-jerky. He keeps it behind the counter... Heck! It's no one you know.

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#81
In reply to #49

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:30 PM

25 to 40 years ago, I might have joined my dad at his deer lease on the west side of I-45 from Centerville. As I recall, we'd head out several miles west, then take a dirt some distance in a northerly direction until it deadended. Then we'd go west for a bit before veering off on northerly track that wound through the woods for a ways that seemed longer than it was because it was tough going for a standard auto.

The cabin was on tend owned by or tended by a light skinned black gentleman I only knew as "Red." He was in his 60s/70s, then, and lived in a house nearby with some friendly, plumb women and some younger kids/grandkids. Red had a hog pen near his house and my brother and I would go down there sometimes to watch the hogs be hogs.

I wasn't much motivated to shoot a deer, then or now, but the skies were dark and clear and I remember sitting out at night with my dad, my brother, an uncle, a cousin, and some of their friends and listening to the tall tales, the funny stories, drinking coffee, and, occasionally, admiring views of the cosmos that are extremely rare from the vantage points taht I have typically trod in the years since. Sigh...

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#85
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Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 2:19 PM

Beautiful skies. Unfortunately for me too little of my time has been spent in remote areas of Texas (I seems to spend too much time in Houston) but whe you get away from the cities it opens up real nice.

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#44
In reply to #41

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:20 AM

That's why Aime's NASA (Just out my back-door) built this big-ass wind tunnel that can be filled with argon and other gasses to simulate the upper atmosphere.

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#32

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 12:43 PM

Wow, my green falling star sighting has certainly generated a good deal of interesting feedback! The spot where I stopped (to water the grass) was halfway between George West and Freer, Texas, and probably 80 or 90 miles (130 to 148 k) from the border with Mexico. The only installations in the area are the occasional oil well or ranch equipment building/shack. It definitely wasn't a well gas flare. It was too high in the sky and trended rapidly in a downward direction in a streak. The speed of the streak was consistent with other falling stars that I've seen.

On a somewhat related topic...I was watching a show the other night about investigations into a theory that a meteoric blast over North America may have wiped out or triggered the end of the Clovis man, saber-toothed cat, the wooly mammoths, and a number of other species that disappeared about that time. It reminded me of something that I have wondered about from time to time (12,900 years ago). In a number of spots in the Earth's crust, there are hot spots where the magma may erupt to the surface or near enough to affect the crust. Could these hot spots, or some of them, be impact-related phenomena? It would seem feasible, at least, that a sufficiently energetic and/or focused impact could weaken the crust and on into the mantle and generate a conduit for magma flow. I'm no geologist and haven't the slightest idea about how to calculate the energy required, etc. Any thoughts?

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:09 PM

When you strike a sphere on one side a shock wave is focused to the opposite side.

How much this is dissipated is the percentage of energy that is available on this opposite side. The earth is far from an exact sphere of equal density so the focus can be defused or sharpened much like light through a lens at an off center angle.

Some geologist think that this effect has fractured and thinned the crust opposite of large strikes on the earth and moon causing a secondary effect.

I haven't done any research into this so I don't have any leads for you to follow for further investigation.

2 more cents from

Brad

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#47
In reply to #32

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 2:06 AM

Yes, I don't want you to get worried, but it is 20,000+ years overdue for a major outburst

Keep well away from the largest Supervolcano on Earth: Yellowstone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera

That means get well upwind, on another Continent, with 10 years supply of food and water, provisions, and shelter for you and your loved ones.

The calculated energy released within some 12 seconds is probably incalculable, but if able to be safely trapped and released, would certainly power all the World for thousands of years.....

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#68
In reply to #47

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:22 AM

I think someone has volcano envy... That's OK. To a sheep one's just as good as another!

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#79
In reply to #68

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 11:45 AM

do you mean envy or angst?

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#84
In reply to #79

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:39 PM

Neither is likely, for it is "jealousy" that is the "green-eyed monster."

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#50
In reply to #32

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 7:53 AM

I stopped there once to play with a rattlesnake. We rode back to CC together. However, the best night time viewing in the state is over towards Ft Davis Mountains. I have spent many long nights watching the multicolored flashes across the skies. Even a few dancing lights near Marfa.

Should you have the time, a trip in the evening to the McDonald Observatory star parties will give you a show that will keep you awed for a long time.

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#71
In reply to #50

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:27 AM

Was Ronald there that night?

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#35

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 1:27 PM

It was my ship, I was going home from... well, why should I tell you anyway.

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#37

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 2:34 PM

I've seen 'green' shooting stars many times over the years. Typically the green part is the ion trail left behind the actual meteor. The way this was explained to me was that your typical meteor is about the size of a grain of sand, but a larger one, say the size of a fist, will leave an ion trail behind it. These look greenish. I'm guessing the ionization of the atmosphere at the end of this meteor's life was what you saw.

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#38

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 3:20 PM

No....just our friendly government washing our atmosphere with rocket fuel...

http://www.wral.com/weather/blogpost/2154750/

http://www.sun-herald.com/breakingnews.cfm?id=4129

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#39

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/12/2007 3:31 PM

Most of the northern lights I've seen in Iceland and Northern Canada consisted of large, waving curtain-like green glows tipped with red and purple fringes at the bottom. I don't know how to decide whether the glow is coming from solar particle ionization of atmospheric gas or from burning incoming material. Either phenomenon can produce multi-colored glows. Meteors and space debris I've seen have always been white, but I suspect they can also be multi-hued.

I read a story once about a mother and daughter watching a falling star from their porch. The child said, "How beautiful." Mother didn't tell her the shooting star was the husband/father returning form Mars in an uncontrolled spaceship.

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#51
In reply to #39

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 9:45 AM

The truth will set you free

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#52
In reply to #39

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:07 PM

I recall reading that story or something quite similar. When it's approaching my time to depart this mortal coil, I think that it would be comforting to know that arrangements had been made to launch my corpus on a slowly descending spiral into the sun. 50 years or so from now what would the economics be for such an arrangement? If not feasible as a one off, how about for bulk launches of 5,000 or more fully dessicated expired humans? Instead of paying for Earthly casket, burial, and plot costs and having one's atoms consigned to something far, far short of eternity in a plot of soil, why not virtually guarantee a space "burial" of millions of years. What would it cost to have a body freeze dried, maybe metallized in some fashion, packed together with 1,000s of others, launched from Earth's pull to a point where the funerary vessel could spill the individual bodies out to spiral, spin, tumble their way around the sun for eons? I find that thought kind of appealing and even beautiful.

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#53
In reply to #52

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:31 PM

Although a nice thought, please also think of the mess it will cause!

Right now we already have a problem with debris floating around our own planet. The Chinese just blew something to smithereens which has ten folded that number. The logistics of keeping track of it all so we don't have a crash is a nightmare to say the least. Now you are proposing to fill the rest of our galaxy with floating corpses!

Why not compromise. Do the incineration to subatomic particles in orbit around the earth together with the cleanup action that will inevitably take place some time. This subatomic material is than launched in an elliptic down spiral towards the sun. You still have your nice farewell journey but your descendants don't have the crashes.

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#58
In reply to #53

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 2:19 PM

Gee whiz, the solar is far too large and spacious to be significantly cluttered in this manner, I would think. While I appreciate the need to keep the near-Earth extraterrestrial pathways clear of uncharted debris, I would think that standards could easily be adopted for selecting an orbit that could be safely steered around by future travelers. After all, there exist countless, naturally occurring bits whizzing around that are uncharted and, although they are concentrated in various pathways, they are zillions that are not. Perhaps it would help to attach solar-powered, chirping, "I-am-here" beacons.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:03 PM

Maybe so but it still warrants thinking about as future humans will inevitable space travel more than we do. At this moment it is already a bad problem and all it takes is a cubic milimeter of rubble, gravity slung-shot by a larger planet, to take a space ship down. Think what a coffin could do if something happens to it and it is propelled straight at earth or at the space station?

I don't want to be there when that happens. We need provisions for this event as it is not an unthinkable scenario.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:28 PM

Absolutely! That's why it should be a sufficiently narrow, carefully selected orbit that is unlikely to be much traveled by future space travelers.

Perhaps an orbit 5 millions miles inside of Mercury's? In my mind's eye, rather than coffins, I see shiny, metallized humanoid mummies tumbling gently, serenely through time. Or, to limit overheating, mummies packed inside of humanoid-shaped sarchofagi composed of metallized sheeting only a few dozen angstroms thick.

On the other hand, perhaps an orbit more distant from the sun would be more appealing. Perhaps an orbit in the void between the Earth and Mars, but at a speed that would keep it in pace with the Earth's passage around the sun, would keep the departed within view of the Earth or near-Earth telescopes and/or monitors for the meaningful future.

Also, instead of distinct, free-floating entities (that might more likely go AWOL), the individual remains could be bound by fine filaments into lacy objects of some design chosen to represent into perpetuity the lives of the deceased.

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#74
In reply to #60

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:39 AM

Of course, you're keeping in mind that you'll be dead at that point, and at very best won't really give a rats ass what happens to the meat-puppet.

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#75
In reply to #74

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 3:28 AM

Check this out!

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#76
In reply to #75

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 6:20 AM

Oi! Keep the noise down! Some of us are trying to get some sleep! <Mumble>

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#80
In reply to #74

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:10 PM

I wanted to point out that you left the apostrophe out of "rat's ass," but only so I could point out that the asterisk is missing, as well. :)

Yes, the corpus cares not. However, the active ego and the need of the living to persist (or to preserve the memory of significant others) in some manner has generated far more lavish works than the eternal space flights I'm contemplating. I predict that something along these lines will actually occur in this century.

It could be easily scalable to appeal to the various socioeconomic levels. For example, a wealthy patron seeking maximum eternal glory could arrange for an elaborate enclosure that might contain instruments capable of linking to or preserving and serving large quantities of audio, video, and biographical information, or whatever. This patron's suit would need only a modest receiver/transmitter to work in conjunction with the more robust receiver/transmitter and power supply (solar-powered sails) integrated into that particular "space mausoleum." An Earthbound or spacecraft bound telescope/antenna could be aimed at the structure and access the information on anniversaries of the individual's death, whenever his descendants wish to learn about great-grandpa, etc. Certainly, none of these features are necessary and all would seem to be hugely extravagant, but how often has that mattered when a big ego, a fat wallet, and a completely irrational but romantic notion coincide?

At lesser economic levels, perhaps only ashes or ash could be launched. Instead of a full body sarchofagus, the person could opt for only a bust, a face, and eye, a fingerprint, or a miniature capsule. In lieu of an individual capsule, the consigned residues of many individuals could be commingled to free float in a vacuum sealed bulb. Really, there are so many ways this idea could be developed.

A group of the deceased of a given faith could be deployed as linked points in a constellation that is meanigful to that faith. For example, imagine the serene, peaceful beauty of knowing that a loved one or ancestor is sailing through space for a virtual eternity as a point in a filamentous constellation arranged to represent the Star of David, the Virgin Mary, etc. The remains could be deployed in such a way that they faced Mecca or some other significant point at specific times.

Though the idea seems largely extravagant, it might be a useful way to preserve information about human history, its culture, and it's individuals at locations distant enough from Earth to avoid destruction by anything Earthbound that might cause a global data loss. I'm confident that something like space burials will happen, eventually, unless a "global data loss" occurs first. In that light, it seems 50-50.

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#90
In reply to #80

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/15/2007 1:06 AM

OK... Give me $50.00 and I'll put you in the cannon along with the next giraffe we shoot at Mars in our efforts to terra-form the red planet.

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#73
In reply to #52

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:34 AM

Consider the Rimmer graveyard.

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#72
In reply to #39

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:31 AM

Wasn't that a Ray Bradbury story about an astronaut that gets locked out of his spacecraft, and knows eventually he'll reenter the atmosphere? The story ends with a child looking up, thinking it's a shooting star and making a wish on it.

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#82
In reply to #72

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:31 PM

That sounds right.

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#54

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 1:43 PM

I have bowed out of this topic but I keep on getting the messages. Did you get your answer to what you saw? Could you ask people to close the trhread or would it continue to the eternity?

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 2:02 PM

unsubscribe Nadeem....unsubscribe.

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#62
In reply to #55

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:34 PM

Please read my response to case491.

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#56
In reply to #54

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 2:09 PM

Under the CR4 Sections window (upper right hand side) there is Logged in window. In Subscribed discussions link you can alter the settings. Now, nothing is perfect in this world, so it might not work

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#63
In reply to #56

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:36 PM

Please read my response to case491.

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#57
In reply to #54

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 2:17 PM

What are you saying? We talk rubbish and you don't think it is worth reading

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#61
In reply to #57

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 3:33 PM

No, no, not at all. Please do not misunderstand me. All I am saying is the focus changes and people go off the topics and do not know who is serious and who is kidding. I read all of the entries and very carefully. Didn't mean to offend any one. I also learned a lot with you mighty learned ones posting your thoughts, like removing the stamp panes glued together, I had this problem and I took the suggestions and it workd and I saved a lots of stamps, How the DVD know where to restart once it is stopped and there are many more and hard to mention all of them.

I read a lot and many times learn a lot and just do not participate byposting my thoughts.

My sincere apologies to any one who got offended (of course unintentionally) and those people who are thinking to scold me on this, I have request please forgive me for what I thought and put down on the paper and spare me from further scolding.

I hope this satisfy you, case491, and others who wrote to me or thinking about to write to me to scold me further.

When I had the problem with the stamp panes got stuck due to several overseas travels for the projects, I asked here and I tried few of the suggestions and then reported back that Thanks folks, with your kindness, I have solved the problem and after that no one wrote again and the thread was closed. The write should come back and take active part in the discussions. Nnow what I personally do not like is the people hiding behind the GUEST mask. I think some people encouraged some guests to enter and register with some identifications and avtars..

Have a very good day, y'all.

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#65
In reply to #61

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 5:07 PM

Dear nadeem,

You should have known that I am not easily offended and certainly not by your light footed banter

That is why I end my jokes with the sureal smiley.

How come you cannot UN-subscribe?

When you get your message in your e-mail, you can choose to go direct to the message or you can choose to manage all your subscribed threads. Choose the last one and you should see a list of all your threads you are curently active in. You can then tick the box and click un-subscribe at the bottom of the page. If you have not done this before, your list will be enourmous

If however you do this all the time, and this time it just fails to work, I do appologise. I am sure it must be a gremlin in CR4's strained computer network and they will not take long to sort it out.

All the best and good luck.

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#77
In reply to #65

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 8:49 AM

Sorry, I do not want to un-subscribe as I am afraid if I do I will be unsubscribed from CR4 completely which is not desired.

I pick and choose topics and want to know new things and what is going on and what people are thinking. Of course in my field of chemical engineering and some bizarre topics as well to amuse myself and learn how far people can go in speculations and their wild thoughts nand imaginations (sometimes) and mostly they are trying to help others and I like it.

Very shrly, I am going to put a question to ask y'all and when I do, I will ask you personally to please response with your thoughts and knowledge.

Have a very pleasant day and beyond.

You message was well taken and I believe it has a good lesson for me.

Thanks for guiding me thru.

Regards;

Nadeem

12142007

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#64

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 4:11 PM

Hello again texlex,

There has been much hype, bantering, speculation, and various theories proposed re your "Falling Star" question.

Much of my recently otherwise spare time has been devoted to your question, in search of the truth, which does of course always come in various shades of meaning - perhaps green for you in this case.......

After trawling my memory banks, I do believe that I have rediscovered the definitive solution - one which was published many years ago, and quite a popular solution it was, about this very same situation:

Perry Como - Catch A Falling Star lyrics

Artist: Perry Como

Catch a falling star an' put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away!
Catch a falling star an' put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day!

For love may come an' tap you on the shoulder,
Some star-less night!
Just in case you feel you wanna' hold her,
You'll have a pocketful of starlight!

Catch a falling star an' ( Catch a falling . . . ) put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away! ( Never let it fade away! )
Catch a falling star an' ( Catch a falling . . . ) put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day! ( Save it for a rainy day! )

For love may come and tap you on the shoulder,
Some star-less night!
An' just in case you feel you wanta' hold her,
You'll have a pocketful of starlight!

( . . . pocketful of starlight! ) [ hum in time ]

Catch a falling star an' ( Catch a falling . . . ) put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away! ( Never let it fade away! )
Catch a falling star an' ( Catch a falling . . . ) put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day! ( Save it for a rainy . . . Save it for a rainy, rainy rainy day! )

For when your troubles startn' multiplyin',
An' they just might!
It's easy to forget them without tryin',
With just a pocketful of starlight!

Catch a falling star an' ( Catch a falling . . . ) put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away! ( Never let it fade away! )
Catch a falling star an' put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day!

( Save it for rainy day! ) Save it for a rainy day!

Music and Lyrics by Lee Pockriss and Paul Vance

If you want to see Perry Como sing this on Utube, and bring back memories of yesteryear, go here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ8RUE-GF4E

Enjoy.....

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#66
In reply to #64

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 6:29 PM

It was just beautiful to see Perry and all the lyrics that I can save.

Once again, Thanks.

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#83
In reply to #64

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/14/2007 12:36 PM

How far do you have to drive/walk/lean in New Zealand to get an unbstructed view of a dark night sky?

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#92
In reply to #83

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/15/2007 5:08 AM

We have to travel about half an hour, to clear the city "nightglow".

On a clear night, viewing then is good.

But of course being in the Southern Hemisphere, we don't get the full beauty of the Milky Way, just a small amount.

Cheers.....

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#94
In reply to #92

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/15/2007 6:11 AM

You also will find it difficult to find polaris

I'd be lost without my star maps to guide me, I use it at least every night(if there are no clouds) Living in britain that means I am lost most of the time but hey, who is looking!

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#96
In reply to #92

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/16/2007 12:41 AM

Yeah, but you get some really cool stuff to look at, like the Magellanic clouds, and the Coal Sack, and a bunch of other things!!!

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#97
In reply to #96

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/16/2007 4:29 AM

What, is their half bigger than ours?

I should really look into their sky at night sometime as you never know I may travel there one day and then you know nothing. I am so busy with my own, there seems to be not enough daylight hours to research.

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#100
In reply to #97

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/16/2007 10:56 PM

This difference became all too clear to me when I first learned how to point a telescope with an equatorial mount, using coordinate numbers from a star map...

I wanted to see a particular object. I got the Universal time correct and then set the coordinates on the mount. When I looked up from what I was doing, I noticed that the telescope was pointing at the ground. At first, I thought I had made a mistake. So I went over the procedure once more and got the same results!

It suddenly occurred to me that the scope was right, but I was wrong. The object I wanted to view was in the Southern hemisphere! Suck!!!

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#105
In reply to #100

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/19/2007 5:31 AM

Hello vermin,

Still worse if you look through your new telescope and see one of these inside....

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#106
In reply to #105

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/19/2007 5:37 PM

Probably from China. Vermin with a scope full of vermin.

Do you contact the department of entomology about such a thing?

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#108
In reply to #106

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/20/2007 12:36 AM

Well, yah! The Chinese dept. of bug-stuff I do! What's yer point?

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#107
In reply to #105

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/19/2007 6:17 PM

I clicked on the answer that I haven't read, and I almost broke my monitor trying to catch the bug. Hate physical jokes

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#67

Re: "Green" Falling Star?

12/13/2007 11:37 PM

Based on the years I worked at Kennecott Copper Corporation,

and subsequently at ASARCO:

including time in the Smelter at Chino Mines Division in Hurley, New mexico,

I hereby confidently assert that Cu ++ burns a blue-ish green.

Ba burns a much lighter green, in my recollection.

Generally, the Sodium yellow well dominate the comet's flare:

but when it subsides, other metal colors can be seen.

here. let me cheat:

Emerald: Copper compounds, other than halides. Thallium.


Blue-Green: Phosphates, when moistened with H2SO4 or B2O3.


Faint Green: Antimony and NH4 compounds.


Yellow-Green: Barium, molybdenum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8hpUtRnsYc

out..

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