Hey there Rich,

Welcome. If you are seriously considering a simple HOD system for your vehicle I would suggest you take a look at this site as previously posted. http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

The reason I say this is I am sure if you have read much of this thread or did some research yourself you would find that the owner/cult leader of Dutchman has had a real bad run as well as half the stuff on the HAFC/PICC sites is completely wrong.

The Smack booster is simple and produces more HHO than the HAFC. One other note I have mentioned is that the HAFC is a piss poor design with the outer shell of the booster itself having a positive charge. This is a bad characteristic for something that is mounted in the engine compartment.

Just my thoughts. Good luck man.

Dan

Dear Respectfully Rich,

In all likely hood you will have results that will improve your

fuel mileage. The reason for my opinion is that you drive a long and continuous way at each sitting behind the steering wheel. These HHO boosters are best in producing the usable HHO on the long steady runs. What kills their performance is the very same thing that effects all fuel issues. Stop and go and up and down on the accelerator.

Toomuchfun

Toomuchfun and DanH

Thanks I will look in to the smackbusters, I have been curious of the Hydro Super 2. Do you have any info on the dial system they sell for about $70.00 to hand tune your fuel to air ratio? I actually just purchased it tonight and was hoping it would make a difference. I was thinking I would start at a low investment price. Also what are your thoughts about a leaner fuel ratio running hotter, do I need to be concerned about this?

I looked at the Hydro Super 2 and it looks and sounds good. I also just saw this on youtube. The only mpg change I have actually seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51HQdWYNMKA&feature=related

The scan gauge says it all if its correct.

As far as the dial thing I am guessing its a mix of what I have been trying to do all wrapped in one. An EFIE with adjustment knob. I have been wanting to build one but haven't gotten around to it. (wife) The o2 extenders they sell for 10 bucks are just 18mm spark plug anti foulers and are about 3-4 bucks for a pair. You just drill out the center to 1/2''. I installed a pair on my last fill up.

Be careful as you set your afr. Running too lean without the hho or some type of internal cooling will toast the rings. A good way to tell is pull your spark plugs and note the color(take a pic). Put them back in or replace if necessary and run a tank or 2 with your afr set where you want(not to lean). Take the plugs back out and if they have a white ashy kinda look then you are probably running too lean. Another idea is to get a thermostat that you can insert just behind the exhaust manifold. Take note of normal operating temp then switch it over. Don't go to far above. I heard or saw 180 above normal but I don't know if that is correct.

Dan

Everything I have heard about it sounds good.

Toomuchfun and DanH

Well I just ordered the Smackbooster through Paypal. I hope to get my mechanic to install it between the 14th and 24th as I will be home on vacation. I have no idea what my mechanic will say as I have not talked to him about it yet. He just installed a Jasper 4.0 V6 in my 94 Ranger. I am hoping this will not void the warranty but I am going to talk to him and give him the materials I have printed out from Smack's site. I do not know if he has ever done this but I have a lot of faith in his skills and he has great customer service and integrity. I am going to have a professional do it because I want all the safety I can and I know how flammable hydrogen is. The last thing I want is a GGFKB ( Gonna Go Fricken Ka Boom!!!) situation. What is the possibility of using more than 1 unit. I have plenty or room due to taking out the airbox when I put in a high performance cold air intake? would I have the battery capacity to do this and what about the computer will it interfere with the hydro cell? I am curious about things like that and oxygen sensors and the (MAP of MAF).

Dear Respectfully Rich,

The most productive HHO Boost set-ups have up to six of the cells daisy chained together. At first glance the average person would think that this would require six times the amp input. Actually tho it works just the opposite way. I am presently constructing my own hho boost system. I don't have enough room for six cells under my hood. However I am building a single canister that is divided into four equal compartments. Each compartment will have an electrode packet that consists of 8 pos and 9 neg ss plates. each plate is 2 3/4" by 4 5/8 ". From this total we must subtract 1 plate as the outsides of the two end plates produce nothing. "The testing has been done and I know what I am talking about!" This will give me about 375 sq in. of plate surface per cell for a total of 1500 sq in. that is 750 for the positive and 750 for the neg plates in surface area. The electrolite will be contained separately in each cell. As the result of this set-up the amps will be divided by four. 15 divided by 4 + will reduce the amps to each cell to 3.75 amps. and gas production will be 4 times as great. Oxy hydrogen burns much cooler than gasoline and that is a plus in preventing over heating however it also combusts more rapidly and this is why you must adjust the timing closer to TOP DEAD CENTER.(retard the spark). Piston driven aircraft engines do this all the time to improve the fuel consumption. Most engines since at least the late 80's either have rack fuel injection or a throttle body injection system. If you can produce enough hho so that you don't need the gasohol from your tank you could just basically turn off the fuel pump and use no fuel at all while on the HHO. As you are just coming on line with this forum I suggect that you see my previous posts. They contain lots of info on where to find the answers.

Toomuchfun

Drewdog I'm happy for you upon receiving your HHO Booster!

May I suggest that you look for a vent that will permit a minimal flow of outside air to inter the booster thru an in only valve. If your booster canister doesn't have one you should check with the MFG to see if you can add one without voiding any warrantee.

The reasoning behind this is that your Booster is not going to build up a lot of pressure to force the HHO out to the engine. The engine will typically pull 32 or more inches of vacuum. That means that when you try to accelerate there isn't going to be a lot of hho available to provide the needed extra fuel. This will have a bad effect on your possible fuel mileage performance. Archie Blue solved this problem years ago by providing the vent in. This permits the engine vacuum to pull any extra hho available from the canister as needed. Your HHO Booster is going to perform best on long runs or when you are just idleing along. Stop and go, and
accleration will kill your performance as the booster cannot provide that much hho for that kind of response. To solve that issue requires the use of a much larger system with many more electrode plates.

Sq.inches of plate material X larger # of plates = More HHO

This holds true with or without high voltage pulse generation!

Good Luck

Toomuchfun

Thanks, will check on that. I saw his design, and it was a good idea, pulling the air through the hho producer. I dont think I can do the same on this design. This design supposedly puts out 3.8 l/ min and i am gonna test that soon. thanks for the feedback and great ideas.

"Hydrogen Boost generators" Unless they can build up enough pressure to perform with comparable fuel injection systems, will inevitably perform like a carb.. The hho is going to be either pushed or sucked into the intake system. If it is being sucked into the system there will come a period of delivery at which the engine vacuum is even greater than the hho boost units ability to produce effectively with pressure. At that point you will be creating a vacuum in the booster. But with out being able to relieve the the vacuum the flow of hho will be diminished accordingly. It's not unlike a fire place needing combustion air to perform correctly. With out this replacement air smoke backs up into the building and you do not get a quality burning of the coal or wood fuel. With the availablity of a small one way valve you can get this much needed additional flow of fuel gas.

Toomuchfun

P.S. If the MFG or one of his trained installers would care to join in with the discussion of the addition of this kind of one way vent we might at least get their opinion on board.

My understanding is that Archie Blue's designed used the PCV line to run to the bottom of the booster and that does two things. One being the loosening of bubbles on the plates to promote more bubble production and the other is specifically what I have been wondering the last few days and you have just answered.

Is it the PCV that is being utilized there?

My idea was to make 2 identical boosters with 11 plates each in series. The first I would run the pcv hose to the bottom then run a hose from the first to the bottom of the second then a hose to a bubbler. However, by looking at my PCV filter it is obvious to me this has to be filtered before blowing into the first cell.

What do you think.

Thanks, Dan

The positive crankcase ventilator was created to prevent the build up of crank pressures and to actually provide a place from which the intake system could evacuate the "fumes" and other vapors that the older oil vent caps that were placed either on top of the oil fill tube or on the valve covers to relieve possible pressure build up there. It is a one way valve when working properly. This prevents humit air from being sucked into the crank case as the engine and oil cool off.

I believe that Archie Blue though that the pulsing of the air created by the action of the crank case stuff like the crank shaft an attached parts would cause physical movement of the fluid and gases in the booster helping to facilitate the exit of said gases to the bubbler. I cannot see any other purpose for that attachment.

Toomuchfun

yes, i can add a one way valve. the question where to get one? the system uses a large poly tank as the seperator, so i can add a valve there. anyone know where to buy one? i would prefer nylon or pvc type. any suggestions?

Drewdog

look a places like Autozone and Quickstop. Locally NAPA is the most helpfull. Look for a PVC valve. There are some constructed in nylon and plastic. You could make your own with a small spring, a small ball bareing and a brass fitting. The ball bareing rests against the tapered seat in the fitting and the spring will hold it closed until it needs to open.

Toomuchfun

thanks, i thought something more specialized. i am gonna check on that this afternoon. thanks for the idea....

Drewdog

This valve doesn't have to be very big. An opening of about 1/4 inch should let a lot of relief into the HHO chamber. Check the valve for the ease in the flow of air. Try blowing thru one end. Then try sucking air thru the other. Air will only flow one way if the valve is the correct one and working right. Install the valve so that you can blow air into the chamber. Now you have it! What ever it is!

Toomuchfun

I understand. I was a bit concerned that it might be something special as I didnt want to lose any hho gas out the one way valve. seepage etc., i was thinking 1/4 or 3/8. I understand the theory and usage. Seems like a good idea.

ahhhh i finally read this entire thing wow seems like all the nay-syaer left. i bought my one way valves from lowes the sell them in the irrigation section called adjustable drippers! i looked everywhere and lowes is the onley place i saw they where like 5 for 5$!!!! i have built my own hydrogen booster and my own volt adder for the o2 sensor... very simple and fun!be safe. and i will report exact mpg increase when instalation is complete, i have to fix a gas leak in the old ford escort first. so it might take a week but untill then good luck to all and read as much as you can b4 you mess with these things there is alot to learn no matter how much you know!!!!

seems like all the nay-syaer left

We're still here... we're just (still) waiting for some proof of all the claims that have been thrown around.

AMEN

Dear Pantaz'

Some folks just get their jollies by being argumentative. That is to say that just because The well tested technology isn't used by the mainstream of the population it can't work or isn't cost effective or in this case violates the known laws or thermodynamics.

THE FACT IS THIS METHOD OF SEPARATING (THAT IS PARTING THE H & O ATOMS) IS ACCOMPLISHED, BY ADDING AN ADDITIONAL STEP IN THE FORM OF HIGH VOLTAGE THAT IS PULSED, INTO THE EQUASION.

I invite the nay sayers to salvage out the innerds of a small one time use camera. It contains a 1 .5 volt battery and a 50 microfarad capaciter. I invite you to short out the capaciter with your finger. The amount of energy you feel is miniscule to the amount of energy that is sent to the electrodes in a well constructed HHO boost generator boosted by the saturation of energy already sent to the electrodes and then blasted almost continuously with high voltage enough to blow your eye lids off.

If you have a bad heart or are using a pacemaker DO NOT DO THE ABOVE EXPERIMENT. IT MAY KILL YOU!!!! The power stored in this little capaciter is un-real.

Caution: IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW HIGH VOLTAGE WORKS DON'T MESS WITH IT. AND "YOU HAVE NO QUALIFIED OPINION TO OFFER THIS FORUM!

TOOMUCHFUN

TAKE A LOOK DANH AND OTHER NAYSAYERS. After those who are working out all of the bugs in this venture succeed you and those like you can pay the auto MFG thousands extra for your energy efficient cars. AND THE GOVT. WILL BE LOOKING FOR OTHER WAYS TO REPLACE THE TAX REVENUE LOST BY THE FALL OFF OF REVENUE THAT USED TO COME FROM FUEL TAXES. EXPECT THE EXCISE TAX ON TIRES AND AUTOS TO INCREASE DRAMATICALLY.

So quit with the hot air and DEMONSTRATE the effectiveness of this technology.

Once it has been independently verified you will be rich.

Or, is this another perpetual motion machine?

A previous poster has said how when running on H-HO you can shut off the gasoline supply completely, running the motor purely on H-HO. If that is the case, and the H-HO is produced by energy from the battery, charged by an alternator, driven by the motor, you now have the very definition of a perpetual motion machine.

Go on, tell me how I'm wrong.

What "well tested technology" are you talking about? I have yet to find any published tests of the so-called HAFC or HHO systems/components by any independent third-party to prove any of the claims.

As for your suggestion of sampling high-voltage with a 50µF cap., well, that's just silly. It teaches nothing about electrolysis. Furthermore, high voltage power supplies are everywhere (e.g., anything with a CRT), it's not something special just for the HHO.

If you have read my previous posts you will see that I am not saying this stuff doesn't work, I am saying I don't know and I will do my own tests to find out. I am also saying that the HAFC, PICC, and any other doodad from Dennis Lee is a scam. I hope this stuff does work and I believe I am in a position of truly being able to get word to a few that can either get the ball rolling or squash me like a fly in the soup of their greed fueled conspiracy. I don't buy the conspiracy that everyone except for a few hundred people are against Dennis lee and his technology. There are tons of other people/companies selling their hho machines on the internet and they are not being blocked by the "man". Who knows. As I have said before, please show me the data and prove me wrong.

DONT GET INVOLVED WITH THE HAFC/PICC NIGHTMARE.

Dan

here is my video i made on how to make a volt adder that coplys with the ocillations of an o2 sensor it cost me 2.99!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k44Tor50tq8

you can see my hydro-booster in action.click on "more from this user"

Thats pretty cool and a hell of a lot more simple then what I have been looking at. How is it working for you? Where do you have it mounted and where are you hooking the neg/pos leads?

Thanks, Dan

how about watching these short videos, but i guess most of them you nays will say its fixed one way or another but these people arent trying to sell you anything!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFGhZNxdyDY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpDtGlL6bCI&feature=related

theres more of them on youtube but i dont fell like finding them for some one who deosnt even believe, you just havent done the right research thats all, i acually feel bad for the people who dont believe

I have been watching a bunch of these and there is actually one that shows the scan gauge and the mpg gain as he flips the switch. Pretty encouraging. I am building one of my own to see if it does anything and how good or bad it does it. I think it would be great if one of the real engineer guys or gals (who have been at CR4 for a while) even knowing with all there brain that it does not work, would build one and give it an honest test in there car. Do something like I am. Even though I don't have the knowledge or degrees you may have I am taking all the ideas on the web I can find that sound good and making a hho booster that I believe is best suited for my first build. I believe from what I have read that I only have to make 1-2 Lpm to see a difference if there is one to be seen. If I see a real difference I will probably try to improve on my design. If I don't see a difference I will put the video on youtube and anywhere else saying what a crock of s#!t this all is. I understand that you guys are way past this technology level and feel it would be a waste of time and money but I think it would be cool. An unbiased build(including sensor gadgets) and test to the best of the ability of 1 or more engineers on this site would be awesome. Wow, maybe even a bunch of you guys. That would be awesome. Let it fail and crush Dennis Lee. If he wont prove us wrong, maybe we could prove him wrong. This might just be crazy talk from some guy with friend that got ripped off but I am going to build one(a better design than the HAFC) and test it. I hope the guys I have learned so much from here do the same.

Thanks, Dan

right on dan!!! i havent hooked it up yet because my 91 ford escort is pissing gas from above the tank... i have to have my busy friend help me so it might take a week to get this thing fixed! then i need to renew the plates and put a 20$ muffler on it, im accepting donations! haha but at least with it not leaking gas i can put the o2 sensor volt adder on the o2 sensor closest to the engine...pre-cat... theres only one in the 'scort but if there where more id have to do something about that too... and then i can hook up my water fuel cell in it and start tuning! heres some good reading thatll keep you busy and not wasting money on stuff you dont need.....

http://merlib.org/mirror/pgfed

These craptube videos does not mean anything but there some stupid guys out there, who still think that this actually saves them money by giving extra miles. That is an absolute misconception. There is absolutely no scienific evidence in this.

If you calculate the efficiency of converting water to Hydrogen and running the engine, your efficency is coming down to about 17%. I ave all those calculations for you.

This means, every 100 Units of energy you input to the engine, you will get only 17 units of energy.

Dont buy these crap.

This is an absolute scam run by Dennis Lee and his cohorts.

i posted earlier about perhaps running a spark plug to the metal plates and really hitting them with some juice. before i waste my time, does anyone think this may make a difference and be worth my effort? you could pulse it and it may boost hho production. or it may be a complete waste of effort as you might boil the water...

im not quite too sure but i think... spark plugs pt out like 20,000 volts?

idk what the amps are..... anything above 2 volts to a cell makes heat youd be better off building a pwm,pulse wave modulator, this way you woulndt have to overcome any extra chalenges as you install it into the car, it does sound like a good experiment though!!! might be worth a shot!... or a boom!

heres a link on how to build a pwm...i dont know anything on electronics so i cant help with explaining it but its the circuit with the box with knobs on it...

http://merlib.org/files/pgfed/D16.pdf

"You signed on as Guest, so we will treat you as a guest"

I responded to your spark plug post. As a matter of fact in order to cause a spark to jump the gap of a spark plug one must have briefly compressed elec. current into a capacitor. When the capacitor is shorted out the compressed current {high voltage} races back from the direction it first came from. When it gets to the gap in the spark plug it has enough energy to jump the gap on its way to ground.

What I have just described is not 12 volts and 15 amps per hr.

The voltage created by the avg. magneto is around 16,000 volt. this seems enough for the avg piston aircraft engine. Even back in the 1960 we had developed the capacitive discharge system that could provide 90,000 volts to fire the spark plug. Every drag racer used this system. Then we moved up to the photo tripped ignitions and hall sensors. Todays small engines use a modified system which is part magneto and part electronic with a chip.

The only moving part is the flywheel with 2 magnets on it. I have read that this system cand produce around 30,000 volts.

I started constructing a system that would use 4 salvaged ignition systems from string trimmers, each placed around the flywheel equally spaced except for one that would be a few degrees off.

This would have provided many thousands of volts of energy to (shake) the already rattled hydrogen atoms from their attachment to the oxygen. BUT THEN! I discovered that folks working with circuit boards, chips , capacitors,resistors,diodes and vari-pots. had already figured this out and were building and improving on my antiquated idea.

Forget about the damb spark plug. Do your self a huge favor. Go on line and pull up Bob Boyce free hho plans. Bob Boyce raced power boats in Florida in the late 80's, and was a member of the APBRA. He raced his boats powered only by Oxy Hydrogen No gasoline involved. He states that he discovered the added effects of pulsing high voltage by accident. It makes for some very educational reading. YOU CLEARLY NEED JUST A LITTLE MORE EDUCATION ON THIS SUBJECT. As for Dinis the menis, He may have something interesting to some folks but as this basic technology has been around since the 60's Dr. William Rhodes Inventor. University of Arizona. See his papers on Pure Energy .com

What else would you like to know?

Toomuchfun