Water For Gas

What? Again?

Good question. Not sure there's an answer, despite there being plenty of candidates.

And what about the dozens of YouTube videos showing working free energy machines?! The Big Anti-Free Energy Conspiracy agents haven't done a very good job of suppressing this information (or did they put faked videos there to divert attention from the real devices? (or do I suggest this ploy to divert attention from those videos because they are real?))

Hi PWSlack.

I have just read an interesting artical this morning, the artical states that in 1943 the American Republic Thunderbolt, "Used water injection" in it's massive 18 cylinder radial engine to boost it's power!

Aparently the heat of combustion releases free oxygen in the water to increase the fuel burn. It was stated that a 12 to 15% increase in power was acheived.

Spencer.

Good answer, I have rated it as such too.....

I also agree with it.....that is more WOT can be allowed for longer periods without damage from overheating as the heat is transported away in the form of steam and probably as you say, this steam pushes a little harder down on the piston crown because of the heat that was available....

Great response Mr. Ron.

There is another gentleman that uses frequency to disassociate hydrogen and oxygen from water.

Not to forget the electrolysis of water to generate hydrogen.

Since no conversion is 100% efficient, more energy is expended than released. However, let us not ignor the use of either method to store energy.

Jet pilots get a sudden burst of energy that may well save the pilot and plane in a dogfight that otherwise had potential to destroy both. The sudden burst of energy also suddenly disappears as the water suddenly removes the available excess engine heat energy. Now if someone would just go figure a method to harness the excess heat exhaust out the tail pipe of an auto engine. A stirling generator or thermoelectric generator is theoratically capable but not commercially available - yet. Imagine a harness machine to recoup the 75% thermal loss in all electric generating power plants.

You should have looked at the link for Crowers 6 Stroke energy, the engine runs so cool because of the two water/steam strokes, it does not need any cooling whatsoever. ergo, no heat to remove, its already been done very efficiently already IN THE ENGINE ITSELF!!

The exhaust is not warmer that your lover breathing on you.....afterwards of course, not during!!

Must be looking for a new set of idiots for that worthless water injector.

Hi PWSlack.

I agree with you, it is CON CON CON all the way to the bank!

Spencer.

I'm still trying to figure out how this works. If you disassociate the hydrogen and oxygen using electricity generated by your car's alternator and then recombust them, then that would be a net loss in power as the engine is only, say, 30% efficient.

If its the water turning to steam, I would think you would need a lot more water than you would get in that quart jar.

If its the hydrogen somehow reacting with the free radicals in the combustion chamber, just exactly how does that help.

They talk about how this 'breaks up' the fuel droplets entering the combustion chamber aiding combustion. Since water is imiscable with gasoline, how does that work?

Of course hooking up a quart jar bubbler to the vacuum hose of my car would be easy to do and I don't see how it could do any real harm, I might just have to try this out as a gee-whiz experiment. I don't see anything here that is in any way complex and not easily made in my shop. Still don't think it will work. Interesting con. $200 for a plastic jar and some wires. Maybe I can make some of these and sell them for $150.

If you want to know how it works, you can buy the book from the website address I provided you for $97.

DVader1000 "If you want to know how it works, you can buy the book from the website address I provided you for $97"

I'll give you the opportunity to double your $97 to $186. Buy two books for $186, one for you and one to have delivered to me so we both can 'save' on gas expense. If it works for me as you claim it will I will pay you for my book and give you an additional $186. That is a more that fair offer!

"I'll give you the opportunity to double your $97 to $186. Buy two books for $186, one for you and one to have delivered to me so we both can 'save' on gas expense. If it works for me as you claim it will I will pay you for my book and give you an additional $186. That is a more that fair offer!"

I've got an even better idea. Let's get the author to give us the book for free on a trial basis while we fabricate the unit for him. Then, when we sell the units, he gets a 20% cut of each unit sold. I think this will be even fairer, especially for him.....

Why are we trying to put the square peg in a round hole when the square is not the problem? The gasoline fired engine has been a 'round' for 100 years. Let's replace it with technology which accommodates fuel sources like good ole' H2O...and remember: Mason jars are even older. Check website: www.whisperglide.5u.com

These characters are looking for R&D money to live comfortably while the while away the time promoting another scheme of something for nothing.

Hey this is an engineering website not a class on proper us of the English language.

Well done professor! I have to agree with you however there are those out there that have gotten on this site to ask questions and there use of the English language was hap hazard at best. There are those out there myself included that are not adept at punctuation, syntax, or structure. Although I am a born and raised Oklahoman, I have never really been eloquent when speaking. However I do get my point across.

I have seen sever people in these forums completely trash those who are not native English language speakers and those who invariably fail to use the spell checker provided (I forget at times to do so) So at the risk of insulting Ron for his attack on the author of the article: Please don't insult those who are attempting to educate themselves in one area just because their ability to express themselves in writing is lacking.

Please understand Ron that this is not a personal attack against you but a comment and request towards those that give the impression that they are better because their Proper use of English is better.

I disagree, using the spelling checker is very simple, it also helps those who are not born speaking American or English to understand better as if the word is spelt correctly, they will find it in a dictionary.

Also, when they make posts, they know that all those words with a red underline are not recognised, so using the spell checker makes their posts easier for all to understand better!!!

LOL - you got a 'good answer' vote from me, because you deserved SOMETHING after reading all that bilge - much more than I could take!

I presume the 'mild steel with mild steel plating' is used to support the 'aluminum titanium metal skeleton' (I doubt that alloy is even possible...) for the 10-ft wide body to fit down our 10-ft wide driving lanes. Normally, loads over 8-ft wide have escort vehicles with flashing lights and big yellow 'WIDE LOAD' signs fore and aft. Since that would compromise the fuel efficiency of the vehicle (3 use more than 1, right?), thus it'll have to be extra tough around the edges. FRP is probably a tad too fragile...

Could try making just enough hydrogen to turn the water to steam in the cylinder.

You don't kill a charlatan, if you are morel less, you rob everyone watching the show. The show gets blamed and you look for other marks.

The direct approach is obvious. Tucker had the better car. What was the outcome?

Cynical I am, I followed the money.

Brad

Your're missing the point...who cares if "these characters are looking for R&D money", at least there are brains out there thinking outside the box of a 100 year old invention called the combustible engine. It sucks!

"Your're missing the point...who cares if "these characters are looking for R&D money", at least there are brains out there thinking outside the box of a 100 year old invention called the combustible engine. It sucks!"

Actually, when Stirling Stan said that "these characters are looking for R&D money", he was being sarcastic. What he really meant is that these guys are trying to con people into giving them money for their own personal use, not to conduct serious research. Likewise, my comment that anyone who wants to know how the system works can buy the book is also meant to be sarcastic since I have absolutely nothing to gain from it (I'm not the author or or even the distributor) except for some mean-spirited fun at the expense of any person gullible enough to fall for it.

Just for your information, the amount of energy required to dissociate water into H₂ and O₂ in quantities sufficient to burn to propel a car is so high that you'll be better off using the energy to propel the car directly instead e.g. as in an electric car. Those, at least, do work.

If you start with the old, that's where you END. If you start with the new, then you BEGIN.

So what if these characters are for real? And, if so, how many other possible solutions are out there? Is the earth flat or round? Come on...WE have a serious crisis with the combustible engine. Not with oil prices. Not with snake oil salesmen...not with transporting...with the original and all American gas fueled engine which we have blatently identified as tradition! What if Cancun and Fiji were far from greedy minds?

10 years ago I answered a newspaper ad reading, "Chevrolet for sale...best offer". It was a 1970 Corvette on blocks, mint condition, fellow deceased, and mom who didn't have a clue. Got it for $500. Resold 20k. Point is what appears to be may not be, just like a Mason jar full of water & bisodium carbonate and a bunch of wires, what it really is. Open your eyes. BTW: I have researched a number of environmentally focused companies and the one referenced tonight has been meeting with the US Senate a number of times. The company is comprised of retired NASA physicists, doctors, masters and bachelors of engineering and business, etc. They are here in the USA, not vacationing....sarcasism is.

Electrolysis converts water to hydrogen on site most all power plants in the US. The hydrogen is used to gass the generator. The generator is more efficient running in a hydrogen atmosphere than in an air atmosphere. Hydrogen leak detection is routine for safety purposes.

Hydrogen is also trucked on-site to make up for insufficient on-site supply or during gassing operations that exceed local capacity.

Feasibility studies must include but are not be limited to the cost of the hydrogen plant, the cost of trucked hydrogen, the cost to operate and maintain the hydrogen plant, and capacity to supply hydrogen during scheduled outages for multiple unit operation.

Is the electrolysis of water economical and feasible?

The argument of whether electrolysis of water is energy locally efficient is an argument that is irrevelant as compared to the option of running a generator in an atmosphere of air rather than an atmosphere of hydrogen. Feasibility studies comclude based on the cost of purchased hydrogen as compared to on-site hydrogen plant output.

The cost of local energy as compared to grid generated energy should be the matter of resolution. The energy will be expended. The cost effectiveness of local energy should be compared to off-site energy.

Irregardless and irrespective of one's opinion on international laws and global energy religions, the bottom line is the comparative cost of energy. The ALI Gore brag of paying extra for green energy from TVA adds $5 per month to his TVA bill (www.tva.gov). The $5/mo is a good investment providing ALI Gore with unchallenged bragging rights.

Energy is the new global religion touting superiority of beliefs and degredation of opposition in order to accumulate wealth of untold proportions by blind contributions from the least affordable of followers. Congress and political figures offer up the coffers of public monies to win election, gain power, and return no viable energy policy for public or private consumption. Poliical power is inefficient energy expended for irrevelant election policies because neither party of option will offer local alternatives for energy consumption or energy generation during our generation.

Individuals desiring energy alternatives must generate the alternative in their own energy. Local generation of energy at the point of use is the only energy alternative that will not be taxed away or regulated wih no energy to spare. Local whole kernel shelled corn energy is one of the readily available viable cost effective energy options. Wind/ Solar/ Micro hydro/ thermalelectric/ stirling/ biomass/ combos of the above including grid are also other viable local energy options.

I do not know where you went to find these statements, but 99% of of what you wrote is complete and utter rubbish......sorry but the truth hurts, but there is no way round it to make your statements at all true or better!!

Or your explanation of how hydrogen is used is so poor, that only someone fully aware (trained in the process already) of what really is meant here would ever understand what you are trying to get at.

I certainly do not know what the hell you are talking about....

Assuming you mean the Hydrogen as an energy supply, please read the following:-

In an atmosphere of Hydrogen NOTHING CAN BURN. Simple first year chemistry, ask your children!!!

In an atmosphere of Methane NOTHING CAN BURN. Simple first year chemistry, ask your children!!!

In an atmosphere of Propane NOTHING CAN BURN. Simple first year chemistry, ask your children!!!

All of the above will burn in a controllable manner in an air atmosphere (similar to the air mixture on Planet earth for example).

All of the above will burn in an uncontrollable manner in an atmosphere of pure Oxygen.

The costs of producing hydrogen for burning to make electricity on a continuous basis, would make electricity far too expensive for most of us in the manner and amounts we use it at this time.....

Whether or not small amounts of Hydrogen are produced to aid in starting some process is naturally possible, but I personally have never heard of it!

To be kind, I feel that you probably skipped most of your chemistry lessons at school, other wise you would have known enough NOT to write what you wrote!! It would have been better if you had paid more attention I feel!!

Andy,

I only know about conventional power plants, especially coal-fired. There is no hydrogen deliberately made there. They don't truck it in. They don't burn it. I think things would go BOOM! in the night if you tried.

Well put, Cornstoves was not taking the pills when he wrote that post!!!

I will rate post as good.

You are SO right!!! I will rate yours as a good answer.

The only reason that I thought that he might have a "Spark" (bad word, sorry) of knowledge, is that I am not up to date anymore on the way Gas Turbines get started. My experience lies nearly 40 years ago behind me!!!

Thanks for your good and logical input!!!

Ummm...well, the truth is they don't BURN it - at least not on purpose. The project I'm currently working on is at a 4-unit coal-fired plant, and they actually DO truck in hydrogen gas. It's used in the generators as a cooling medium. It's sealed, under slightly >1 atm. pressure, and extremely pure so it doesn't go...

What quantity? I've never paid much attention to the generator floors; I've mostly been up in the flues or down by the firebox.

Garthh, try China Lake!

WHY NOT JUST STAND AND BLOW INTO YOUR FUEL TANK AND HOPE THE CAR MOVED ON C02.

NEW FORMS OF TRANSPORT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN THE NEAR FUTURE WITH EVERYONE BEING PUSHED FOR A CLEANER EMMISSIONS AND FOR A GREENER CLIMATE. IT IS INEVITABLE.

Water injection is used for one minute in jet engine during take-off. This allows extra power, just because water vaporization cools the blades of the tubine ( decreasing T4 ). Then you can put more fuel in the combustion chamber to get the same T4. The extra power comes from this supplement of fuel, never from the water injected. Even using distilled water, this last only one minute to limit corrosion.

This might be used in automotive, but I have no information??

Water injection has been used in automotive engines in the past. The main application was in drag racing where the expansion of the steam would give you a boost in power much in the same way as you describe with the jet engine. Its a short-term power boost. I've not seen water injection kits since the 70's however. Nitrous oxide is the performance enhancer of choice in racing now.

The difference is that you would use the same ammount of water as seen in one of these kits, but in a quarter mile run.

I know many who run water/methanol injection on their race engines. The water allows for a higher compression without pre-detonation of the fuel Air mixture. the Methonol acts mainly as a coolant with the added bonus of a mild boost in octane

if you have not seen a Crowther 6 stroke engine before, this is a perfectly feasable way (to my mind) to make use of the heat in an IC engine to make steam and drive the engine for a further 2 strokes. The Crowther web site is interesting too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_stroke_engine

Crowther Web Site

Dear Water 4 gas:

Please note that there is a TV show called "Myth Busters". While their methods are not exactly in line with the scientific method, there are certainly convincing enough for those who believe in get rich quick schemes and perpetual motion.

good luck

cbs

PS. FYI This myth was "busted"

I am starting work on an engine for both mobile and stationary applications that runs solely on snake-oil. I am seeking funding for the research, but do not desire to be beholden to government interests or big oil or the automotive industry. I prefer to generate funds from smaller, private investors. Anyone wishing to invest/contribute, please contact me for particulars and the number of the Swiss bank account where your funds can be directed (see, I don't even handle the money directly, that's how honest and disassociated I am!).

Hmm - eventually someone will come forward with improvements, this outfit in New Jersey can't be a more than a couple hours away -

http://www.preignitioncc.com/us

they at least spent big money to put the full page ad in the US News and World Report for January 21, 2008 -

I've got enough interest to at least see if they would invite in guests to look over -

Jim

not much happening on my target car at present, but in the mean time - did run across yet another interesting water to energy story this one has to do with radio waves exiciting salt water enough to burn -- I don't know may take more energy to generate the radio waves that is given off, but I like the Stirling Engine bit -

I don't know how to upload a *.wmv file, but email me and I will email a copy - very interesting -

eagertask@aol.com

This one has come up and been discussed here at CR4 a number of times.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/9309/Salt-Water-as-Fuel

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/16740/Saltwater-fuel

Short answer was "no".

ok thanks - dropped (like a hot rock)

Jim

There probably are new discoveries out there that will change the ways things work, but they are likely to be something that nobody has thought of yet rather than something like electrolysis of water.

Be honest: if a guy walks up to you on a golf course, carrying a soda bottle and offers to play you at $100 a hole using only that soda bottle as a club, are you gonna bet him? Can you smell a rat?

This is the "best" con that I have seen in my whole life. MyBusters should get informed to try and "Bust" it!!!

<more as unfolds ->>>>>>>>

Can we summarize:

Water for Gas is already here-- 'The 6-stroke Engine where water is injected to get Steam power--and cool the engine at the same time--'

If now some enterprising Toyota-like brings about another" quantum jump" by mass-producing this 6-stroke+Electric Hybrid + a light-light foam-insulated Aluminium body car --and powered by Core-Duo --- and offers the same at $ 2500 ( like TATA's Nano) ---

That will keep us all at CR4 Quiet for a while!

And we will then argue for/against virtual office/bicycle power/better use of advanced new Internet and how not to drive a car at all.

<more as unfolds>>>>>>

Well put!!

just an additional thought while waiting for someone to respond to my 'request for quote' in order to gain more information to fill out the 'payback sheet' -

Some of us in this forum are paying attention to the APIX discussion - notice how some of these sites we are discussing are putting their information together for the internet - might be some valuable lessons for the APIX group to be sifting through as well -

Jim

"No sir, Mr. Wilson; not today" was the reply in my email box again this morning. This is getting frustrating - I want to investigate this warrented 50% increase in gas mileage and things aren't moving ahead fast enough - imagine that.

It's been a couple of days since I hit the "Request Quote" button at

http://www.preignitioncc.com/us and sadly, no reply has come to me.

Perhaps my 1991 Buick Front wheel drive as one of the 89 million automobiles on the road today is "too old" for consideration?

Will report in again when something new occurs - Jim

Only in America!!

Well, there is such a concept as the six-stroke cycle, where water is injected into the hot cylinder after the exhaust stroke in stroke 5, which water forms steam and gives more power from the engine as it expands in stroke 6.

As such it is an economy device, enabling more power to come out of the engine per pound of fuel used. It also simplifies the cooling system.

Not sure it would work at the highest latitudes though. Water has a habit of going solid in those sorts of places.

Checkout post #25 from me, it gives links to 6 stroke engines web sites......

Here' a thread about hydrogen production that may not be Bullshine!

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/17264?frmtrk=cr4sd#newcomments

You gotta love this. I just found a replacement for my Guys and Dolls quote.

www.psychoceramic.com

A place to invest that Confederate money you've been keeping in the coffee can buried under the Elm tree.

An organisation investigating "crackpot" ideas called The Psychoceramic Foundation and with a logo consisting of a cracked pot.

LOL.

Not sure if it is genuine or not (appears to be a Brown university Hoax). It just go's to show that you can do wonders with a good-looking website. Interestingly enough you appear to be able to donate money. Still, perhaps a good place to direct committed free energy developers (can a hoax cancel out a scam, something to ponder). Oh, the money gained could be used to educate students in science .

You need to look up the "Law of Conservation of Energy" and determine how much energy is required to combine oxygen with hydrogen.

Guest,

Your link includes a pitch for money with no substantiation for a generally disbelieved scheme.